Topic: 53 2.2 petrol auto CD - not starting after head gasket change (Read 5115 times)

effinomega · « **on:** 07 January 2015, 14:02:35 »

Hello again forum.

I've got a conundrum with ma motor. I'll try and explain as best I can...

About a month ago the car started running rough upon starting which got better as it warmed up. Was loosing coolant and eventually got an error code saying misfire on cyl 2. Did a compression test of all cyls and got very low (45 psi) on cyl 2. Upon further checking there was coolant in the cylinder, so head had to come off. (All bores \ rings OK - compression issue appeared to be tuck hydraulics tappets)

Two weeks ago, I drove it into my garage and duly stripped her down. Took the head for a skim and pressure test, all good so far. Cleaned and checked the hydraulic tappets and checked the valves all ok. Rebuilt the head and stuck it back on with new gasket and bolts. Got a new belt kit and water pump and stuck them on. Checked time was spot on. Put the rest together and was expecting to fire her up and enjoy the rest of the holidays but alas, for the last four days I've been trying to get her to start with not a peep.

The engine cranks just fine but there appears to be a lot of fuel going into the cyls and getting the plugs very wet.

Have checked the coil and everything is sparking as it should (and I'm assuming when it should!).

I've borrowed a mates Launch reader and there are no codes at all showing. Even tested unplugging crank sensors etc to get a fault and plugging them back and all seems fine.

I'm now at a complete loss and hope someone here can come up with any ideas.

Thanks in advance folks.

steve6367 · « **Reply #1 on:** 07 January 2015, 14:17:32 »

Do you have a spare Cam sensor you can try?

Also can you verify you have fuel in the fuel rail?

4x4 · « **Reply #2 on:** 07 January 2015, 14:22:26 »

Have you checked all electrical connections and earths.

effinomega · « **Reply #3 on:** 07 January 2015, 17:15:21 »

Hi guys,

Thanks for speedy replies.

Steve - unfortunately don't have a spare. Probably need to buy one but not sure if it's the cam sensor or a crank sensor fault - the forum has an awful lot of info on these sensors but I'm getting lost with all the varying opinions. It's getting plenty (too much) fuel. Checked valve on fuel rail - fine.

4x4 - Double and triple checked. All fine.

Managed to borrow a timing light and confirmed that no.1 fires when it's supposed to - all timing marks where they should be.

Also checked fuel pressure regulator to see if it was just flooding but looks to be ok.

The only thing I remember doing wrongly when I stripped the engine was when I took off the main rad hose from the thermostat housing, it still had water in it and it poured down the side of the engine - right above the crank sensor position.

?

Steve B · « **Reply #4 on:** 07 January 2015, 17:30:04 »

I have a used working cam sensor here

When my cam sensor packed up the car still started ok

effinomega · « **Reply #5 on:** 07 January 2015, 19:01:50 »

PM sent, cheers

RobG · « **Reply #6 on:** 07 January 2015, 19:17:27 »

Desmond will start (eventually) with a dodgy cam or crank sensor

effinomega · « **Reply #7 on:** 07 January 2015, 19:28:45 »

Doesn't sound like its catching at all.

I've now run down the battery turning it over. On charge for rest of the night.

Is there any way of checking the sensors out of the motor? Is it poss to verify what the ECU send to each sensor?

05omegav6 · « **Reply #8 on:** 07 January 2015, 19:44:39 »

Check the coolant temp sensor is connected properly... (not the guage one)

effinomega · « **Reply #9 on:** 07 January 2015, 19:54:03 »

is that the plug near the egr on the housing?

4x4 · « **Reply #10 on:** 07 January 2015, 20:00:44 »

Yes ,theres 2 sensors at rear of engine next to egr,1 gauge temp and other ecu temp

effinomega · « **Reply #11 on:** 07 January 2015, 20:21:32 »

sensor and gauge connectors OK. unplugged and reconnected just to be sure.

cheers anyway

Steve B · « **Reply #12 on:** 07 January 2015, 20:39:11 »

When you turn ignition on .. Does the light on dash (car with Spanner ) Go out

4x4 · « **Reply #13 on:** 07 January 2015, 20:41:51 »

I know on the frontera there was 2 wires at rear of engine that connected to the head,these caused me problems when i changed started on the frontera,wouldnt fire up as they were lose.

effinomega · « **Reply #14 on:** 07 January 2015, 21:11:21 »

yep, light on dash goes out.

found some info for checking crank sensor (and others). will need to check tomorrow though as its nucking futs outside now.

Steve B · « **Reply #15 on:** 07 January 2015, 21:23:45 »

Just thinking.. What would happen if your were one revolution out on the crank $:-\$

effinomega · « **Reply #16 on:** 07 January 2015, 21:38:43 »

I thought that too but checked and cyl 1 is tdc when all marks are where they should be.

even if it was, wouldn't it at least try to fire, albeit very roughly?

05omegav6 · « **Reply #17 on:** 07 January 2015, 22:08:55 »

Any access to a code reader $:-\$

effinomega · « **Reply #18 on:** 07 January 2015, 23:42:14 »

A mate can borrow a Launch x431. Hopefully get it from him at weekend. I'm going to try some other tests in the meantime. Also got another cam sensor coming, just in case.

I'll update on progress.

4x4 · « **Reply #19 on:** 08 January 2015, 06:13:00 »

Just a thought,you have put cams back in the correct sides?

effinomega · « **Reply #20 on:** 08 January 2015, 15:53:12 »

ok folks.

I now know why it's not starting, but am at a complete loss on how to proceed. There is no compression! 25psi on cyl1, 0 on the rest.

The cam buckets are all out again and feel very stiff, even though I primed them in warm oil before putting them back in during rebuild.

Any thoughts?

Marks DTM Calib · « **Reply #21 on:** 08 January 2015, 16:08:45 »

Quote from: BIGtime on 07 January 2015, 21:23:45

Just thinking.. What would happen if your were one revolution out on the crank $:-\$

Nothing, would work perfectly well.

effinomega · « **Reply #22 on:** 08 January 2015, 16:16:04 »

going to borrow another compression tester, just in case

4x4 · « **Reply #23 on:** 08 January 2015, 16:43:40 »

Something is out,i.e wrong cams on wrong side of head,which is where i would start 1st.

effinomega · « **Reply #24 on:** 08 January 2015, 20:37:23 »

right.

mate and I had a look again tonight and tested by filling cyl 1 with air from my compressor. Air could be heard leaking out but we couldn't find where from.

stripped the head off again. all valves seated nicely. surfaces of head and block checked with straight edge - all ok. the gasket looked fine, the only thing being it was a cheapo from flebay.

so - new (better) gasket and bolts tomorrow and will be checking compression before proceeding with anything else!

I'll update on progress.

4x4 · « **Reply #25 on:** 08 January 2015, 20:52:35 »

Just take your time when refitting everything and make sure you follow correct sequence for tightening head down.

effinomega · « **Reply #26 on:** 08 January 2015, 22:29:00 »

will do

effinomega · « **Reply #27 on:** 09 January 2015, 16:48:38 »

might be about to send the mega to the tip.

new gasket and bolts bought this morning. spent rest of day rebuilding and when tried to start - nothing, just cranking away but not firing again.

timing checked and all ok.

compression test shows ZERO.

anybody know what else would cause this?

the rest of the car is near perfect too, I've spent a lot of time and money keeping it ship shape.

4x4 · « **Reply #28 on:** 09 January 2015, 17:56:34 »

Can you take pics of cams and crank at correct timing position to start with.

effinomega · « **Reply #29 on:** 09 January 2015, 18:39:37 »

sure, will do tomorrow

flyer 0712 · « **Reply #30 on:** 09 January 2015, 19:04:18 »

Have you tried using another compression gauge to make sure the original is working ok......to have zero p.s.i. points realy to valves opening at the wrong time allowing all the air to escape.....you say you have checked timing and all is lined up ok.......before you stripped the engine did you mark up the timing,camshaft ? crankshaft ? timing marks or marked it yourself

because never take any timing marks as correct as i have known them to be out ......as stated on here photos of the cam shafts and the way they are fitted may help because it does appear to point the fault in that direction..... $:-\$

4x4 · « **Reply #31 on:** 09 January 2015, 20:12:24 »

Im thinking he has inlet and exhaust mixed up or using the wrong marks on cam sprockets.

flyer 0712 · « **Reply #32 on:** 09 January 2015, 22:17:08 »

thats my thinking also as otherwise it does not make much sense...hope it turns out to be something simple for him after all of his efforts......must admit he has more patience than me ....

Steve B · « **Reply #33 on:** 17 January 2015, 10:56:45 »

Any news on this one $:-\$

PhilRich · « **Reply #34 on:** 17 January 2015, 14:43:48 »

I had very similar problems after renewing my Desmond HG. In my case the cylinder test gauge was u/s and leading me in the wrong direction! Turned out to be a totally collapsed and blocked CAT probably caused by steam/water contamination during the time the HG was leaking until total failure $:-\$

effinomega · « **Reply #35 on:** 17 January 2015, 18:31:37 »

hi, thanks for you thoughts on this.

I've been away with work all week so not had a chance to get back to it yet. plus, it's freezing here at the mo.

I'll need to get hold of another tester to confirm compression first. Only other thing I can think of is trying another head, but I can't find any at nearest breakers or online.

Probably wont get to look at the car again till next weekend, but please let me know if there are any other ideas.

Cheers

Steve B · « **Reply #36 on:** 17 January 2015, 19:00:51 »

Are you sure the cams are not mixed up $:-\$

4x4 · « **Reply #37 on:** 17 January 2015, 20:12:28 »

Im sure i asked that

Andy A · « **Reply #38 on:** 17 January 2015, 20:15:59 »

I wouldn't try another head. I would check to see if the cams are correct. As mentioned above. Post some photos.

effinomega · « **Reply #39 on:** 17 January 2015, 20:52:25 »

once I get the snow cleared from the car I'll get the pics

is it worth removing the cams, so that all valves are closed and then turn the engine over to see if there is some or max compression or would this knacker more things up?

4x4 · « **Reply #40 on:** 17 January 2015, 20:58:14 »

We just need pics of the cam pulleys before you do anything else and they must be with cams in the timed position

Andy A · « **Reply #41 on:** 18 January 2015, 09:37:57 »

Quote from: effinomega on 17 January 2015, 20:52:25

once I get the snow cleared from the car I'll get the pics

is it worth removing the cams, so that all valves are closed and then turn the engine over to see if there is some or max compression or would this knacker more things up?

No, do not remove the cams at this stage. As 4x4 said, take some photos of the cams in the timed position and let people see and advise you first.

effinomega · « **Reply #42 on:** 18 January 2015, 10:33:03 »

ok, will do that first chance I get, probably wont be until end of this week though. cheers

effinomega · « **Reply #43 on:** 19 January 2015, 20:54:52 »

some pics, not the best as difficult in the cold and crap lighting.

crank mark is right on the timing pointer.

cam sprockets are both tdc with marks as noted when stripping.

cams - the intake wasn't separated from the sprocket so can't have moved. exhaust cam and sprocket were split but are keyed back into same position.

here's hoping someone can see the pics and advise what to do next. cheers

4x4 · « **Reply #44 on:** 19 January 2015, 21:14:36 »

Sorry mate cant see pics

effinomega · « **Reply #45 on:** 19 January 2015, 21:47:47 »

hope this works...

effinomega · « **Reply #46 on:** 19 January 2015, 21:51:31 »

nope, ah well

05omegav6 · « **Reply #47 on:** 19 January 2015, 21:54:03 »

Quote from: effinomega on 19 January 2015, 21:47:47

hope this works...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bpyt4cq3ipv1gkq/crank.jpg?dl=0

05omegav6 · « **Reply #48 on:** 19 January 2015, 21:55:45 »

Quote from: effinomega on 19 January 2015, 20:54:52

some pics, not the best as difficult in the cold and crap lighting.

crank mark is right on the timing pointer.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bpyt4cq3ipv1gkq/crank.jpg?dl=0

cam sprockets are both tdc with marks as noted when stripping.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6viw6r7xupn9a1o/cam%20sprockets.jpg?dl=0

cams - the intake wasn't separated from the sprocket so can't have moved. exhaust cam and sprocket were split but are keyed back into same position.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/tpzt9ox03h5hipu/cams.jpg?dl=0

here's hoping someone can see the pics and advise what to do next. cheers

Pics become visible when you click the links, but not a drop box user, so can't fix them as images...

4x4 · « **Reply #49 on:** 19 January 2015, 22:06:42 »

Cant see the other marks on cams but this pic should show you the correct way to have cams

effinomega · « **Reply #50 on:** 19 January 2015, 22:15:28 »

I'll take better pics tomorrow and try uploading them again. was rushing it in the cold.

tidla · « **Reply #51 on:** 19 January 2015, 23:00:11 »

Bolt the head back on, put the belt back on and test the compression before putting too much back on.

Pull the fuel pump fuse or something if you dont want fuel everywhere, same with the spark.

As mentioned leave the exhaust/manifold disconnected if you can.

Steve B · « **Reply #52 on:** 19 January 2015, 23:09:10 »

Need to see all of the Exhaust markings Because of this picture

Andy A · « **Reply #53 on:** 20 January 2015, 11:08:26 »

Quote from: effinomega on 19 January 2015, 20:54:52

some pics, not the best as difficult in the cold and crap lighting.

crank mark is right on the timing pointer. What you need to do is take the auxiliary belt off. Undo the 4 bolts and take the crank pulley off and then have a good look at the timing mark that is on the crank itself. Do not go by the timing mark on the pulley wheel. I'm wondering if you have put the pulley wheel back on in a different position to how it came off. This would explain a lot. See photo for the correct timing on the crank.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/53447058@N05/14079701179/in/photostream/

cam sprockets are both tdc with marks as noted when stripping.

cams - the intake wasn't separated from the sprocket so can't have moved. exhaust cam and sprocket were split but are keyed back into same position.

here's hoping someone can see the pics and advise what to do next. cheers

effinomega · « **Reply #54 on:** 20 January 2015, 13:09:58 »

okay,managed to get better pics in daylight.

Am still unable to get the pics to show, so please just click on the links. Hope they work.

Andy - the crank timing mark was my first check - all ok in that regard.

Thanks to others who have posted very helpful images and descriptions so far.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jvs2l7lx8jzq91r/DSC_0072.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xacpr0rgb36niha/DSC_0073.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ydal9cmrklu2kd2/DSC_0074.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7q9ffh7rxzhq4jg/DSC_0075.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/q1kuddw6l2hoi29/DSC_0076.JPG?dl=0

Steve B · « **Reply #55 on:** 22 January 2015, 15:52:48 »

Is this pic @ TDC

effinomega · « **Reply #56 on:** 22 January 2015, 21:35:33 »

yep. spot something?

Steve B · « **Reply #57 on:** 22 January 2015, 22:21:28 »

Cylinder 1 On the pic can only just make out that on the exhaust side,the cams are at about 3 oclock and that they will open the valves next time piston is at the bottom of its stroke.. So that looks good

cannot make out the inlet cos the picture is bad.. can you not get a camera and get them two pipes out the way of the inlet cams on cylinder 1

Steve B · « **Reply #58 on:** 22 January 2015, 22:23:36 »

Quote from: BIGtime on 22 January 2015, 22:21:28

Cylinder 1 On the pic can only just make out that on the exhaust side,the cams are at about 3 oclock and that they will open the valves next time piston is at the bottom of its stroke.. So that looks good

cannot make out the inlet cos the picture is bad.. can you not get a camera and get them two pipes out the way of the inlet cams on cylinder 1

Which should be around 9 oclock

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Author Topic: 53 2.2 petrol auto CD - not starting after head gasket change (Read 5115 times)

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