Topic: Coolant Smell.... STILL!! UPDATE! (Read 3304 times)

omegalord · « **on:** 19 October 2007, 17:13:11 »

Ok,

Did a coolant flush loads of times until coolant coming out was clear. Put 5ltrs of genuine vauxhall red anti freeze. Did the HBV valve as it was buggered and when i took it out it had a white line down the back indicating it was leaking at some point.

I dont get steam from behind the plenum anymore , and dont lose coolant but after a good run or a good thrash it abslutely stinks of coolant and if i open the bonnet it smells hot and of coolant.

The car runs at 92.5 and then idles upto 96 and then the fan drops it back down to 92.5

I sat in Mcdonalds drivethru earlier after 15-20 mins run and it stunk of coolant!

Any ideas?

Matt :-/

ians · « **Reply #1 on:** 19 October 2007, 17:31:59 »

you mean when sitting in the car? (or head under bonnet - I assume you don't do car maintenance when in the McD queue

)

Are you losing coolant?

omegalord · « **Reply #2 on:** 19 October 2007, 17:33:37 »

lol , no defo dont do maintenance whilst ordering a mcflurry.

It smells when im in the car , and if i pop the bonnet it smells worse and theres a hot breeze.

It aint losng coolant although it said coolant low earlier when the coolant was smack on the line

Matt

ians · « **Reply #3 on:** 19 October 2007, 17:38:09 »

Quote

lol , no defo dont do maintenance whilst ordering a mcflurry.

It smells when im in the car , and if i pop the bonnet it smells worse and theres a hot breeze.

It aint losng coolant although it said coolant low earlier when the coolant was smack on the line

Matt

Could you have missed when refilling with coolant and its now burining off? Also could have taken out the level sensor which is on the bottom of the exp. tank.

omegalord · « **Reply #4 on:** 19 October 2007, 17:39:20 »

The level sensor is in place , and didnt spill a drop , made sure of it.

Its as though the engine is running too hot when its been for a good run.

Couldnt be blocked waterways could it or something like that?

Matt

Dazzler · « **Reply #5 on:** 19 October 2007, 17:58:51 »

Try changing the header tank cap first, as it may be constantly venting pressure slightly hence the smell.

omegalord · « **Reply #6 on:** 19 October 2007, 18:00:26 »

It doesnt leak from there or anything like that. Would it still be this if it didnt leak?

Also, if i bought a new header tank from Vauxhall (£26) , would it come with a new cap?

Matt

Dazzler · « **Reply #7 on:** 19 October 2007, 18:03:08 »

Quote

It doesnt leak from there or anything like that. Would it still be this if it didnt leak?

Also, if i bought a new header tank from Vauxhall (£26) , would it come with a new cap?

Matt

No it won't come with a new cap.
It can vent air (smell) without leaking water.

omegalord · « **Reply #8 on:** 19 October 2007, 18:27:40 »

Ok,

So when you say vent , do you mean let out smell? It screws on tight enough?!

If so i will go for a bog run 2moro and then pop my bonnet and put my nose right by the cap. If it smells of coolant really bad it will be that then wont it?

Matt

Richard A · « **Reply #9 on:** 19 October 2007, 19:53:48 »

On the top of the cap is a figure (140), if the coolant temp reaches this pressure it will release the system of fluid/air out of the cap, ie the smell. It sounds more as if you may still have an air lock in the water/heater system, maybe after replacing the HBV, the 96 deg temp is about right for a good 2.5 v6.
regards,
richard

omegalord · « **Reply #10 on:** 19 October 2007, 21:01:11 »

How would i know and get rid of an airlock?

Matt

Darth Loo-knee · « **Reply #11 on:** 19 October 2007, 21:16:12 »

Quote

How would i know and get rid of an airlock?

Matt

How were you gonna change your engine and gearbox if your not sure how to get rid of an air lock

hotel21 · « **Reply #12 on:** 19 October 2007, 21:21:38 »

From cold....

Ensure header topped up to max, leave cap off.
Cabin heater on max heat.
Start engine and leave to idle.
Allow to warm up, regularly burp the large hose beside battery to expell air.
Once guage at normal, shut it all down and replace cap.
Allow to cool (preferred overnight) recheck level and top up as required.

All should now be absolutely wonderfull and everyone at peace with the world.......

VX1 · « **Reply #13 on:** 19 October 2007, 21:22:49 »

Quote

How would i know and get rid of an airlock?

Matt

Did you put the heater on hot and then switch the heater fan on full after you renewed the coolant?

omegalord · « **Reply #14 on:** 19 October 2007, 21:29:05 »

Quote

Quote
How would i know and get rid of an airlock?

Matt

How were you gonna change your engine and gearbox if your not sure how to get rid of an air lock

By doing what everyobody else does on here when not sure. Ask

omegalord · « **Reply #15 on:** 19 October 2007, 21:29:55 »

Quote

Quote
How would i know and get rid of an airlock?

Matt

Did you put the heater on hot and then switch the heater fan on full after you renewed the coolant?

Yeah i put the heater on full whack to get the coolant to go round the engine and matrix.

Matt

omegalord · « **Reply #16 on:** 19 October 2007, 21:31:12 »

Quote

From cold....

Ensure header topped up to max, leave cap off.
Cabin heater on max heat.
Start engine and leave to idle.
Allow to warm up, regularly burp the large hose beside battery to expell air.
Once guage at normal, shut it all down and replace cap.
Allow to cool (preferred overnight) recheck level and top up as required.

All should now be absolutely wonderfull and everyone at peace with the world.......

Do you mean at the max line or absolutely maximum to the rim?

Matt

hotel21 · « **Reply #17 on:** 19 October 2007, 21:32:07 »

The max mark on the header, ie the welded midpoint join....

omegalord · « **Reply #18 on:** 19 October 2007, 21:32:40 »

Right. I'll go do that in a min so it can cool overnight. The last time i did that on my old omega the coolant came bubbling over. Would that of been a big airlock?

Cheers

Matt

hotel21 · « **Reply #19 on:** 19 October 2007, 21:36:48 »

Yup, not unusual to get big burps in the header. Thats what the process is for....

omegalord · « **Reply #20 on:** 19 October 2007, 21:39:05 »

Quote

Yup, not unusual to get big burps in the header. Thats what the process is for....

Sorry to keep perstering but...

If when i keep burping the pipe if the coolant starts to bubble over do i have to keep putting water in as it will overheat with coolant going out wont it?

Matt

hotel21 · « **Reply #21 on:** 19 October 2007, 21:45:21 »

Chicken and egg.

System has water in it, intermixed with big lumps of air.....

Air is compressible, water is not.

As the air burps out its place is taken by the water -quite straightforward.....

If it overflows out the header, so be it. Thats the reason for allowing it to cool (even with the cap off, regularly checking to see it does not drain down, but most unlikely) and topping up when cold to the max mark on the tank.

omegalord · « **Reply #22 on:** 19 October 2007, 21:47:08 »

Okay , cheers

Matt

omegalord · « **Reply #23 on:** 19 October 2007, 22:43:00 »

**UPDATE**

Okay , just sat half an hour letting the car idel with the cap off , the coolant rose and just spilt over the expansion tank a few times and when i squeezed the big hose it pushed some coolant out , but to be honest ,nothing spectacular.

Now the car is cooling down till 2moro when i will see if it has worked.

Does it sound like it went as normal?

Matt

justme · « **Reply #24 on:** 19 October 2007, 22:58:00 »

Check that your filler cap is clean, you will note 2 valves ensure that they are clean. pressure relief valves.
if you are loosing water engine side I cant see how you are getting any smell inside, your air intake for the fan is sperate from the engine bay. I would check to see if there is any dampness on the floor, as you get that prob (smell) with the heater matrix leaking.

omegalord · « **Reply #25 on:** 19 October 2007, 23:01:55 »

Hi,

No dampness in the car at all. The car took ages to warm up to temp just with the cap off , which makes me think with the cap on it is overpressurising or running hot. Cant be the HBV as that was replaced 2 days ago and is not leaking at all.

Matt

omegalord · « **Reply #26 on:** 20 October 2007, 12:06:27 »

Well.....

Got up this morning and guess what.... Coolant Low is still coming up and still getting the coolant smell.

Gutted. God knows what it is now.

Matt

JamesV6CDX · « **Reply #27 on:** 20 October 2007, 15:58:54 »

Quote

Well.....

Got up this morning and guess what.... Coolant Low is still coming up and still getting the coolant smell.

Gutted. God knows what it is now.

Matt

Coolant leak / air is getting in somewhere I recon..

omegalord · « **Reply #28 on:** 20 October 2007, 18:55:45 »

Definitely no coolant leak as i dont have any wet patches at all anywhere.

God knows!

justme · « **Reply #29 on:** 20 October 2007, 21:27:35 »

Quote

Hi,

No dampness in the car at all. The car took ages to warm up to temp just with the cap off , which makes me think with the cap on it is overpressurising or running hot. Cant be the HBV as that was replaced 2 days ago and is not leaking at all.

Matt

It will always take ages to warm up with the cap off that is normal for any car unless it is a pressurised system like a golf then it just spews the contents with the cap off.

If it is over pressurising then it can only be the rad cap if it is overheating then the thermostat.

omegalord · « **Reply #30 on:** 21 October 2007, 08:22:03 »

Quote

Quote
Hi,

No dampness in the car at all. The car took ages to warm up to temp just with the cap off , which makes me think with the cap on it is overpressurising or running hot. Cant be the HBV as that was replaced 2 days ago and is not leaking at all.

Matt

It will always take ages to warm up with the cap off that is normal for any car unless it is a pressurised system like a golf then it just spews the contents with the cap off.

If it is over pressurising then it can only be the rad cap if it is overheating then the thermostat.

Really?

Would that cause all these problems.

Matt

omegalord · « **Reply #31 on:** 21 October 2007, 17:32:04 »

Still stinking of coolant. Pulled up at some lights earlier and smoke coming out of the bonnet the passenger side. Pulled up about 2 mins later , jumped out and popped the bonnet quick and not a sign of nay spills, smoke or anything!!

Getting fed up now sick of this bloody omega.

Matt

omegalord · « **Reply #32 on:** 21 October 2007, 20:27:11 »

Anybody?

Matt

Elite Pete · « **Reply #33 on:** 21 October 2007, 21:03:59 »

Have you tightened the drain plug on the radiator enough?

omegalord · « **Reply #34 on:** 21 October 2007, 21:10:32 »

Yeah.

It isnt leaking coolant , but definitely saw some steam passenger side of bonnet

Matt

justme · « **Reply #35 on:** 21 October 2007, 21:10:33 »

Hi Matt,

Right lets go back to basics, what was the start/symptoms of your original problems.
why did you change the hbv : you say it was us, did you put the pipes back on correctly.

You say smoke from under the bonnet was it, or was it steam.
when the engine warms up to temp with rad cap on, do you get any water from under the cap :question
if not then the cap should be ok.
what temp does the coolant get to now / got to before doing anything.

what have you got to be sick about
just accept the challenge and dont let the being thing beat you, if you work through it logically, the answer will be there. Plenty of peeps here who will try to help you, may not have had the exact same problem with thier meegas, but you will get ther.

omegalord · « **Reply #36 on:** 21 October 2007, 21:18:24 »

Right...

Had steam coming from the back of the plenum. Turned out to be rocker gaskets. Replaced the gaskets with genuine gaskets, sealant and o rings. Then i noticed the smell of coolant , and it kept flashing "coolant low" on the MID.

So... went on for a few days and noticed steam coming from behind plenum but this time not an oily smell , more of a hot water smell.

So asked on here and was told it might be HBV.

Changed that last week and it had a white stain on the back of the HBV so was probably leaking. Pipes definitely on right as asked marks dtm and no leak at all from there. Did that and did a coolant flush until it was running clear water out of rad.

Put 5ltr of genuine red vauxhall coolant in and then topped up the following day to mak level.

Still smells of coolant, still flashes up "coolant low" , and thats after sitting for half hour with cap off to get rid of airlock.

Today just pulled off and after 3-4 mins of driving , smoke/steam coming from the passenger side of the bonnet , by the wing.

So pulled over after about 1-2 mins and jumped out and openend bonnet. Not a sign of steam/smoke water leaking or anything , but a strongish smell of coolant again.

Matt :-/

Entwood · « **Reply #37 on:** 21 October 2007, 21:25:09 »

Quote

Right...

Had steam coming from the back of the plenum. Turned out to be rocker gaskets.

rocker gaskets can't make steam ... they make smoke from burning oil dripping onto exhausts

Quote

Still smells of coolant, still flashes up "coolant low" , and thats after sitting for half hour with cap off to get rid of airlock.

"Coolant low" warning can easily be checked .. visually by looking at the water level .. if it is NOT going down it is a false warning

Quote

Today just pulled off and after 3-4 mins of driving , smoke/steam coming from the passenger side of the bonnet , by the wing.

So pulled over after about 1-2 mins and jumped out and openend bonnet. Not a sign of steam/smoke water leaking or anything , but a strongish smell of coolant again.

Matt :-/

I'm no expert here .. but ..... If you are losing coolant ... ie you have to keep topping up... you either have a bad joint or a leak ... could this be an oil cooler problem ?? I would lift the plenum and check the oil cooler thouroughly, afetr checking EVERY pipe in the coolant system. If you are NOT losing coolant it is something totaly different !!

ffcgary1 · « **Reply #38 on:** 21 October 2007, 21:27:04 »

check the top rad hose that goes to the engine ON THE PASSENGER SIDE OF THE ENGINE BAY for any signs of leak. use a mirror to check the underneath of the hose as these can leak and you will not see it. failing that then get the system pressure checked.

Entwood · « **Reply #39 on:** 21 October 2007, 21:31:50 »

Just had a stupid thought .. and no insult meant here .. so please forgive me in advance ........

As you "thought" (from your previous post) that the "smoke" from the rocker gaskets was steam, are you also thinking that hot/burning oil smell is coolant smell ??

If you are NOT losing coolant, you don't have coolant leak .. but you MIGHT have an oil leak you think is coolant smell.... if you get my drift.

I would have a long look for a snmall oil leak .....Did you change BOTH rocker gaskets ?? have you checked to ensure they were not overtorqued ?? are they seated properly ??

omegalord · « **Reply #40 on:** 21 October 2007, 21:32:40 »

What i cant understand is... if im parked up with teh bonnet open and the engine running it will sit there all day and not show any signs of steam but will still smell of coolant. It only has steam/smoke coming from the engine bay if im driving and doesnt do it all the time.

Matt

Elite Pete · « **Reply #41 on:** 21 October 2007, 21:35:05 »

The only things that have been messed about with are the HBV which is at the back of the engine or the radiator drain tap and thats where my money is going

Entwood · « **Reply #42 on:** 21 October 2007, 21:35:53 »

If your breathers are blocked the crankcase pressure at tickover may not be sufficient to force oil out from a rocker gasket, but when under load . ie driving, especially open throttle, the presure might rise enough to do this ..

I'm only guessing but I'm not convinced you have a coolant leak if you are not topping the system up with water every time !

justme · « **Reply #43 on:** 21 October 2007, 21:42:53 »

Ok So why would rocker gasket have anything to do with coolant :question oil yes coolant no.

So you thought that the hbv needed changing :question, but that has not sorted the problem.

You have not yet isolated the problem, by doing any of the above so back to the drawing board

Just noticed an answer to a new thread by loo knee, about the pipe from the top of the hbv going through the bulk head apprantly there is a joint there that can give problems. Which would also account for the stench in the car, worth a check. Dont forget with the temp of the coolant you would not neccessarily be looking for a huge leak more a slight weep.

given that you have observed steam from under the bonnet then start there. check every pipe carefully for any cracking, check all clips are in place and tight, doing this with the engine cold to start with.

Having satisfied yourself that all seems ok, get the coolent to normal temp. now repeat the process of checking, dont be afraid of moving the pipes around, there may be a split there that you cannot see or feel. i'll gaurantee you one thing it is there somewhere, with patience you will find it and curse it, but you will never be caught by it again.

In future dont jump in with both feet, you can normally check these things out without changing everything in site first. just ask and keep asking the answer will come

omegalord · « **Reply #44 on:** 21 October 2007, 21:42:58 »

I cleaned the breathers thoroughly and torqued the rocker gaskets up to 8 , which is right.

When i noticed the rocker gaskets were leaking oil there was smoke coming from the pasenger side manifold as hot oil was hitting the exhaust , and also steam from behgind the plenum as the HBV was gone too.

The rad tap is tight , i checked it and the HBV is definitely not leaking as i have had a feel round there with teh scuttle off and engine running.

Matt

Darth Loo-knee · « **Reply #45 on:** 21 October 2007, 21:49:28 »

Matt, if what you are saying is right, that there is not still a slight oil leak from the passenger side Cam Cover, that the HBV now isn't leaking, but you still have steam coming up from behind the Plenum, I would be looking at lower down at the coolant bridge, this way if it is leaking down there you won't be able to see it as the Plenum, inlet manifold all hide it..
The coolant Bridge is at the back of the picture going from one side of the block to the other... you can just see the coolant pipes going to it...
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1192574209

omegalord · « **Reply #46 on:** 21 October 2007, 21:52:40 »

Looknee,

Makes sense i suppose. Could the oil cooler do this to the coolant system? , as the crap in the header tank was a browny stuff , but was told on here that it might just be burnt water. I might have a go at replacing the oil cooler and then i will have a look at the coolant bridge then whilst the plenum is off.

How much is an oil cooler?

Matt

ffcgary1 · « **Reply #47 on:** 21 October 2007, 22:00:40 »

:question 1 Are you still topping up the coolant bottle
   2 How many small pipes are there on the coolant bottle [ 1 or 2]
   3 Does the car over heat when being driven
   4 Can you see pink coolant leaking anywhere on any hoses.
   5 Have you checked thoughly for cam cover oil leaks.

As to ? no 2 the 2 small hoses on the coolant bottle this type of system is self bleeding and do not require the rad cap off to bleed the system.

It does require the bottle to be checked for level though after cooling down to cold.

You need to approch this with a bit more care and start at the begining AGAIN. Good luck.

Darth Loo-knee · « **Reply #48 on:** 21 October 2007, 22:01:13 »

Quote

Looknee,

Makes sense i suppose. Could the oil cooler do this to the coolant system? , as the crap in the header tank was a browny stuff , but was told on here that it might just be burnt water. I might have a go at replacing the oil cooler and then i will have a look at the coolant bridge then whilst the plenum is off.

How much is an oil cooler?

Matt

Oil Cooler about £100.... But you maybe jumping the gun......

Are you losing water? Are you losing Oil? Is there oil in your Coolant Reservoir?

If not wouldn't suspect oil cooler failure...

When I put that Forte Coolant Cleaner stuff in I kept getting a green mucky stuff, as well as brown in the water reservoir and cap.. Like I said before it took me a few weeks to get the water perfectly clear, diluting each time I flushed with clear water.. only when I was sure did I put in the new red anti-freeze.

omegalord · « **Reply #49 on:** 21 October 2007, 22:06:34 »

Well,

I drained the coolant and left cap open. Then put heaters on full whack and run engine as i was pumping constant water in the header tank. Did this for about 10-15 mins till the water coming out was clear. Definitely no oil leaks off the gaskets , i have run my fingers around the sides and no oil. Coolant is dropping slightly but i think this might be down to how hot the coolant is when the car is running. It doesnt overheat as the fans do come in at 96 but the car just seems to run hot.

The header tank is brown but from the past coolant and is brown crap in , looks almost like sand if you know what i mean.

I might get a new header tank from greenhous as only £25 and do a complete coolant flush every day for about a week , see if that does it.

Matt

Darth Loo-knee · « **Reply #50 on:** 21 October 2007, 22:27:18 »

Why do you think your car is running hot? mine with the heaters on hot, temperature gauge sits about 92-93... with heaters on cold 94-95... sitting in traffic temperature gauge will go up to 97 then fans kick in to bring the temp down again.... You said yours does this and your temp sits at 92! I wouldn't say that was running hot....
Before going and spending any more money unneeded, put a washing up bowl under and drop your water when cooled down through the red plug at the bottom of the radiator.. you will see bits at the bottom of the bowl....Leave the plug out, refill with clear water until the water that is now coming out is as clean as when your putting it in... tighten the rad plug then refill your reservoir with clear water. Use the car as normal get home and repeat..
What you are doing is diluting the Forte and Anti Freeze you have put in. It took me a couple of weeks to do this.
I no longer have the green mucky stuff or brown looking water.

justme · « **Reply #51 on:** 21 October 2007, 22:53:23 »

Quote

Right...

Had steam coming from the back of the plenum. Turned out to be rocker gaskets. Replaced the gaskets with genuine gaskets, sealant and o rings. Then i noticed the smell of coolant , and it kept flashing "coolant low" on the MID.

So... went on for a few days and noticed steam coming from behind plenum but this time not an oily smell , more of a hot water smell.

So asked on here and was told it might be HBV.

Changed that last week and it had a white stain on the back of the HBV so was probably leaking. Pipes definitely on right as asked marks dtm and no leak at all from there. Did that and did a coolant flush until it was running clear water out of rad.

Put 5ltr of genuine red vauxhall coolant in and then topped up the following day to mak level.

Still smells of coolant, still flashes up "coolant low" , and thats after sitting for half hour with cap off to get rid of airlock.

Today just pulled off and after 3-4 mins of driving , smoke/steam coming from the passenger side of the bonnet , by the wing.

So pulled over after about 1-2 mins and jumped out and openend bonnet. Not a sign of steam/smoke water leaking or anything , but a strongish smell of coolant again.

Matt :-/

A white stain on the back of the hbv, the hbv was not split :question then there must be a pipe leaking there, again dont forget with that temp and pressure a slight weep will be like an aerosol you are looking for something small.

ians · « **Reply #52 on:** 22 October 2007, 13:46:20 »

Please do not go investing time and money in swapping things blind. That's an expensive way to not solve the problem (if indeed there is a problem).

In my experience , when cam cover seals have gone and been replaced, it takes quite a while for all the old oil that has already leaked to find its way onto the exhaust and burn off. So intermittently you'll get oil smoke /smell. (likely for a couple of weeks or more - don't worry about it.) - that sounds like what you are seeing.

As I understand it, you are not losing coolant, but there is brown gunge in the tank - possibly due to coolant flush you've added (have you?). If so you will need to repeatedly flush properly (NOT just running a hose through the system - there will be gunge in places that that method doesn't clear out) until the water is clear. While you are doing this over several days check that the level isn't falling.

Finally when you are sure the level is not dropping and the water remains clear, then add your antifreeze (sorry I know this duplicates previous posts..).

I think you have convinced yourself there is a problem but I'm really not sure there is, so let's not go spending cash until we have determined that.

BTW - HBV's in my experience leak out of the small hole - I've never seen one visibly split.

omegalord · « **Reply #53 on:** 22 October 2007, 16:41:29 »

**UPDATE**

Well, saw the smoke today and slammed brakes on and popped bonnet to see where its coming form.... and its the passenger side rocker gasket! GUTTED!!

In my defence i didnt fit that side my mate did. I couldnt do that side as my hands are big and couldnt get them down the side. So.... can i reuse the gaskets as they are only a month old ?

And would it just be a case of taking the rockers off and taking the gasket out and wiping it and then reseating it and trying again?

Also,

Coolant Low keeps flashing up and then going off so hopefully its just a loose connection.

Finally, i didnt put any coolant flush in , just clear cool water. Im going to drop the coolant again and fill up , run for a bit , then flush until its totally clear.

Matt

ians · « **Reply #54 on:** 22 October 2007, 18:01:08 »

Coolant low appears on mine too even though there is plenty in the tank. I think the sensor is US. So no need to worry about that for now assuming there is coolant in the tank.

I think you'll only know about the gasket when you get the cover off. If there is any visible damage at all I would get a new one (pair). You'll need to carefully remove the sealant and redo carefully, and check that the 'half moon ' at the back is properly located. Also check you've not lost any of the orings.

omegalord · « **Reply #55 on:** 22 October 2007, 18:39:51 »

Yeah,

Well im going to do it all on a weekend. Going to take the plenum off again , do the rocker gaskets so they are perfect , and also blank off my EGR, clean out the ICV and then give the whole engine a whole check over to see if there are any signs of a leak near the coolant bridge. Also going to get a new header tank and cap. Then flush the car with forte, loads and loads of times to get the water running clear and then put new red antifreeze in again.

Matt

razzo · « **Reply #56 on:** 22 October 2007, 20:02:56 »

Just thought but seem to remember when M DTM was working on Jims car he had a rad cap with a tyre valve in it & pressurised the cooling system to 18 psi & left it to see if the pressue dropped, may be worth a try

ffcgary1 · « **Reply #57 on:** 22 October 2007, 23:06:10 »

Dont fit the new header tank untill your ready to finally fill with 50/50 mix coolant and water that way the tank stays clean.

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