Topic: 3.2 Wheel bearing (Read 3162 times)

Entwood · « **on:** 05 September 2011, 20:07:44 »

Many folks know the on-going saga of my wheel bearing problems.... so I won't bore you with all the details .. but needless to say one of the new bearings fitted in France was found to be faulty at Newent. Despite the attentions of both Daz and The Master (Darth Loo-Knee and MarkDTM) the play could not be reduced.

Been in contact with Quinton Hazell toaday who were surprisingly helpful .... initially .....

They agree there is a fault and the item should be replaced under warranty, they accept that returning to France is a no-brainer,

But they do not deal directly with the public.

They are happy to talk to a motor factor and arrange a warranty claim where they factor provides me with the bearing and they give the factor full credit for the item.

However, they do not stock the item at present, and have no stock planned for the forseeable future (seems they only sold 35 units in the past year). They cannot give me a list of places they have supplied the bearings to, only a few local companies who have purchased anything from them in the past year

They won't give a cash refund, only an exchange item. I've phoned around all the Wiltshire area contacts, none of whom have a QH unit in stock

Looks like I'm going to have to but A N Other wheel bearing assembly and sort it that way ..

So the question is .. which one ?? Contitech ?? It was one of them that failed after 5 months .. possibly just bad luck ??

So .. which bearing kit and from where ..

Darth Loo-knee · « **Reply #1 on:** 05 September 2011, 20:13:55 »

I have to go too Vauxhall in the morning i will see what I can get one for

Andy B · « **Reply #2 on:** 05 September 2011, 20:16:58 »

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I have to go too Vauxhall in the morning i will see what I can get one for

I replaced mine from Vauxhall a couple of years ago & it was around £100

feeutfo · « **Reply #3 on:** 05 September 2011, 20:34:54 »

Fitted a baring under the Masters beady eye just up the road from you Nige. Torqued to 320nms...play. Tightened further...play. Tightened further... Better but still play.. maybe less than 0.25 mill at the rim edge.

Second one on the same side in 6 months.

But to add, Massive thankyou to the Mr and Mrs Master

for their help in sourcing parts.

Does seem to be a problem with play IME.... :-/

Andy B · « **Reply #4 on:** 05 September 2011, 20:41:28 »

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Fitted a baring under the Masters beady eye just up the road from you Nige. Torqued to 320nms...play. Tightened further...play. Tightened further... Better but still play.. maybe less than 0.25 mill at the rim edge.

Second one on the same side in 6 months.

But to add, Massive thankyou to the Mr and Mrs Master for their help in sourcing parts.

Does seem to be a problem with play IME.... :-/

Did you see Mark dismantle one of the bearings? If there was play when assembled no amount of ftlbs/Nm would take the play out.

jb · « **Reply #5 on:** 05 September 2011, 20:42:10 »

Omega front wheel bearings have a tendency to be a little loose - one of my cars has the same wheel advisory on play for the last 4 mots and 45000 miles ....

Entwood · « **Reply #6 on:** 05 September 2011, 20:49:34 »

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Omega front wheel bearings have a tendency to be a little loose - one of my cars has the same wheel advisory on play for the last 4 mots and 45000 miles ....

Interestingly, the guy from QH implied that a little play was totally acceptable, until I asked him to define "little" and why the other one had no play !!

I'm going by The Masters view that this has too much play in it and needs replacing. Having just done wishbones and steering idler, and needing 2 new tyres I plan to change the bearing before a visit to WIM.

I'm assuming that bearing play would have a significant effect on an accurate geometry setup .. can't see how you set angles on a moving platform !!!

feeutfo · « **Reply #7 on:** 05 September 2011, 21:01:31 »

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Fitted a baring under the Masters beady eye just up the road from you Nige. Torqued to 320nms...play. Tightened further...play. Tightened further... Better but still play.. maybe less than 0.25 mill at the rim edge.

Second one on the same side in 6 months.

But to add, Massive thankyou to the Mr and Mrs Master for their help in sourcing parts.

Does seem to be a problem with play IME.... :-/

Did you see Mark dismantle one of the bearings? If there was play when assembled no amount of ftlbs/Nm would take the play out.

Yep, it was my old one that was taken apart.... And over tightening did help, no doubt about it. Shouldn't be necessary though... :-/

Entwood · « **Reply #8 on:** 05 September 2011, 21:04:53 »

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Fitted a baring under the Masters beady eye just up the road from you Nige. Torqued to 320nms...play. Tightened further...play. Tightened further... Better but still play.. maybe less than 0.25 mill at the rim edge.

Second one on the same side in 6 months.

But to add, Massive thankyou to the Mr and Mrs Master for their help in sourcing parts.

Does seem to be a problem with play IME.... :-/

Did you see Mark dismantle one of the bearings? If there was play when assembled no amount of ftlbs/Nm would take the play out.
Yep, it was my old one that was taken apart.... And over tightening did help, no doubt about it. Shouldn't be necessary though... :-/

Just to avoid any confusion here ...

MarkDTM actually took the faulty wheelbearing apart at Newent and "wiped" the inner face on some emery to try and reduce the "float" inside the bearing. Seemed to make very little difference..

Andy B · « **Reply #9 on:** 05 September 2011, 21:05:57 »

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Fitted a baring under the Masters beady eye just up the road from you Nige. Torqued to 320nms...play. Tightened further...play. Tightened further... Better but still play.. maybe less than 0.25 mill at the rim edge.

Second one on the same side in 6 months.

But to add, Massive thankyou to the Mr and Mrs Master for their help in sourcing parts.

Does seem to be a problem with play IME.... :-/

Did you see Mark dismantle one of the bearings? If there was play when assembled no amount of ftlbs/Nm would take the play out.
Yep, it was my old one that was taken apart.... And over tightening did help, no doubt about it. Shouldn't be necessary though... :-/

Not sure why it would ...... :-/ :-/

feeutfo · « **Reply #10 on:** 05 September 2011, 21:19:03 »

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Quote
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Fitted a baring under the Masters beady eye just up the road from you Nige. Torqued to 320nms...play. Tightened further...play. Tightened further... Better but still play.. maybe less than 0.25 mill at the rim edge.

Second one on the same side in 6 months.

But to add, Massive thankyou to the Mr and Mrs Master for their help in sourcing parts.

Does seem to be a problem with play IME.... :-/

Did you see Mark dismantle one of the bearings? If there was play when assembled no amount of ftlbs/Nm would take the play out.
Yep, it was my old one that was taken apart.... And over tightening did help, no doubt about it. Shouldn't be necessary though... :-/

Not sure why it would ...... :-/ :-/

Agreed, does though. Master has mentined it a couple of times. it can bring an Mot fail into a pass. They allow 0.5mill anyway. But there does come a point where no amount of tightening will help.

Andy B · « **Reply #11 on:** 05 September 2011, 21:27:27 »

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.... They allow 0.5mill anyway. ....

1/2 a mill? Where do they measure that?

feeutfo · « **Reply #12 on:** 05 September 2011, 21:30:05 »

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.... They allow 0.5mill anyway. ....

1/2 a mill? Where do they measure that?

Play at the outside edge of the wheel.

Auto Addict · « **Reply #13 on:** 06 September 2011, 06:29:39 »

Front; With ABS; Hub Assy £101.01 + VAT.

Front; Saloon; Wheel Bearing Kit; Ø 74mm £28.53 + VAT.

Trade Club prices.

Marks DTM Calib · « **Reply #14 on:** 06 September 2011, 08:41:13 »

I have been able to get rid of play by tightening in the past which hints at either a loose bearing or some gunk or grit between the inner race surfaces.

What we do know about Nige's hubs is that they were not tightened correctly (which is a worry!).

Now this could have resulted in a fast wear rate on them.

The 'slop' is controlled by the inner race inner faces and hence why I tried just takinga very small amount off it to see if it reduced the slop (I suspect taking more off would but I was not willing to try it on a bearing that we needed!).

What I would say is that the amount of slop on the concerning side is A LOT and not the small amount of play you sometimes see (as per the contitechs)

Marks DTM Calib · « **Reply #15 on:** 06 September 2011, 08:44:43 »

That front wheel bearing kit is a new one and a new part.

If anybody has an old hub then I might consider doing a trial by fitting one of those to an existing hub.

Auto Addict · « **Reply #16 on:** 06 September 2011, 11:57:17 »

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That front wheel bearing kit is a new one and a new part.

If anybody has an old hub then I might consider doing a trial by fitting one of those to an existing hub.

Is it an intricate job then?

Marks DTM Calib · « **Reply #17 on:** 06 September 2011, 12:07:20 »

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That front wheel bearing kit is a new one and a new part.

If anybody has an old hub then I might consider doing a trial by fitting one of those to an existing hub.

Is it an intricate job then?

Not really.

Remove the inner races, bearings and plastic bearing retainers.

Remove the inner race (running weld around them works well then they just fall out).

Freezing the new bearing in the freezer and heating the (cleaned) old hub up in the oven.

Fit the new bearing into the old hub.

Auto Addict · « **Reply #18 on:** 06 September 2011, 12:11:06 »

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Quote
Quote
That front wheel bearing kit is a new one and a new part.

If anybody has an old hub then I might consider doing a trial by fitting one of those to an existing hub.

Is it an intricate job then?

Not really.

Remove the inner races, bearings and plastic bearing retainers.

Remove the inner race (running weld around them works well then they just fall out).

Freezing the new bearing in the freezer and heating the (cleaned) old hub up in the oven.

Fit the new bearing into the old hub.

So, that route would mean the car off the road for a day or so.

Andy B · « **Reply #19 on:** 06 September 2011, 12:13:21 »

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Quote
Quote
Quote
That front wheel bearing kit is a new one and a new part.

If anybody has an old hub then I might consider doing a trial by fitting one of those to an existing hub.

Is it an intricate job then?

Not really.

Remove the inner races, bearings and plastic bearing retainers.

Remove the inner race (running weld around them works well then they just fall out).

Freezing the new bearing in the freezer and heating the (cleaned) old hub up in the oven.

Fit the new bearing into the old hub.

So, that route would mean the car off the road for a day or so.

You could take the bearing & hub to a local workshop for them to remove the old bearing & to press the new one in.

Marks DTM Calib · « **Reply #20 on:** 06 September 2011, 13:23:23 »

I was actualy thinking of getting a spare second hand hub and using it as a rolling stock?

Entwood · « **Reply #21 on:** 06 September 2011, 22:59:22 »

Options I have found ..

Genuine Vx using trade club (No name) .. £121.21
Vauxhall Car parts (No name) .. £42.95
ByPartsBy web page (No name) £61.90
ByPartsBy ebay (Contitech)... £29.50
VAIL ebay (No name) ..... £46.98
Motorist Wharehouse (No name) ... £50.79
Mendip Enterprises .. (First Line) .. £74.79
RSJ Motor factors (First Line) .. £69.56
Premier Factors ebay (No name) .. £50.99
Seekpart24 (QH) .... €108 (approx £98)
PureCarParts (FAG) .. £64.26

Anyone any opinions

Darth Loo-knee · « **Reply #22 on:** 06 September 2011, 23:01:40 »

I asked at Vauxhall today and nearly passed out when he said £98 for one side

Entwood · « **Reply #23 on:** 06 September 2011, 23:10:11 »

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I asked at Vauxhall today and nearly passed out when he said £98 for one side

I don't suppose you know who makes the Vx ones

The list above does not give much info ... FAG = FEBI I believe but finding out who actually makes the units is not easy !!

I can't understand how buypartsby can have 2 such different prices for the same thing from their web site and ebay ... but I'm a tad unsure of buying from them after the last one.

I'm begining to think sod it Vauxhall .. even at that price ...

Darth Loo-knee · « **Reply #24 on:** 06 September 2011, 23:12:21 »

I will ask the guy at Vauxhall to see if he knows who make them.... don't suppose he will but worth a go

feeutfo · « **Reply #25 on:** 06 September 2011, 23:14:29 »

Had first line baring on my old cdx. Hopeless.

Entwood · « **Reply #26 on:** 06 September 2011, 23:20:20 »

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Had first line baring on my old cdx. Hopeless.

Thanks Chris .. just the info I was looking for

Genuine Vx using trade club (No name) .. £121.21
Vauxhall Car parts (No name) .. £42.95
ByPartsBy web page (No name) £61.90
ByPartsBy ebay (Contitech)... £29.50
VAIL ebay (No name) ..... £46.98
Motorist Wharehouse (No name) ... £50.79
Mendip Enterprises .. (First Line) .. £74.79
RSJ Motor factors (First Line) .. £69.56
Premier Factors ebay (No name) .. £50.99
Seekpart24 (QH) .... €108 (approx £98)
PureCarParts (FAG) .. £64.26

Any more views ?

Seth · « **Reply #27 on:** 06 September 2011, 23:27:38 »

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Had first line baring on my old cdx. Hopeless.

Thanks Chris .. just the info I was looking for

Genuine Vx using trade club (No name) .. £121.21
Vauxhall Car parts (No name) .. £42.95
ByPartsBy web page (No name) £61.90
ByPartsBy ebay (Contitech)... £29.50
VAIL ebay (No name) ..... £46.98
Motorist Wharehouse (No name) ... £50.79
Mendip Enterprises .. (First Line) .. £74.79
RSJ Motor factors (First Line) .. £69.56
Premier Factors ebay (No name) .. £50.99
Seekpart24 (QH) .... €108 (approx £98)
PureCarParts (FAG) .. £64.26

Any more views ?

Never had a problem with these Nige

Andy B · « **Reply #28 on:** 07 September 2011, 00:10:29 »

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I asked at Vauxhall today and nearly passed out when he said £98 for one side

Quote

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I have to go too Vauxhall in the morning i will see what I can get one for

I replaced mine from Vauxhall a couple of years ago & it was around £100

I wasn't far out then

Osprey · « **Reply #29 on:** 07 September 2011, 00:52:18 »

Contitech jumps out as an anomalous price - surely shome mishtake? If not, would Contitech really ship duff bearings given their good reputation for other parts?

I have no experience of their bearings - just curious.

kcl · « **Reply #30 on:** 07 September 2011, 06:24:03 »

Contitech belongs nowadays to the Schaeffler group which is the manufacturer of INA/FAG bearings so FAG and Contitech are assumably the same product.

Auto Addict · « **Reply #31 on:** 07 September 2011, 07:18:15 »

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Contitech jumps out as an anomalous price - surely shome mishtake? If not, would Contitech really ship duff bearings given their good reputation for other parts?

I have no experience of their bearings - just curious.

The Contitech web site makes no mention of bearings.

Auto Addict · « **Reply #32 on:** 07 September 2011, 07:28:04 »

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I was actualy thinking of getting a spare second hand hub and using it as a rolling stock?

Seems like a plan, pity I threw my old one out.

Auto Addict · « **Reply #33 on:** 07 September 2011, 10:25:57 »

I wonder why it always seems to be the nearside bearing that fails?

kcl · « **Reply #34 on:** 07 September 2011, 10:39:54 »

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I wonder why it always seems to be the nearside bearing that fails?

Nearside is the drivers side, yes? I have wondered the same, all three front bearings that I have had to replace have been on drivers side...

Andy B · « **Reply #35 on:** 07 September 2011, 10:51:58 »

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I wonder why it always seems to be the nearside bearing that fails?
Nearside is the drivers side, yes? ......

No

Nearside is near the kerb ie the passenger side. Left hand side of a RIGHT hand drive car as you sit in it.

Auto Addict · « **Reply #36 on:** 07 September 2011, 10:57:10 »

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I wonder why it always seems to be the nearside bearing that fails?
Nearside is the drivers side, yes? I have wondered the same, all three front bearings that I have had to replace have been on drivers side...

Our nearside is your drivers side.

Our drivers side would be your nearside.

Andy B · « **Reply #37 on:** 07 September 2011, 11:06:19 »

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Quote
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I wonder why it always seems to be the nearside bearing that fails?
Nearside is the drivers side, yes? I have wondered the same, all three front bearings that I have had to replace have been on drivers side...

Our nearside is your drivers side.

Our drivers side would be your nearside.

but the near side is always near to the kerb which ever side of the road you drive on

kcl · « **Reply #38 on:** 07 September 2011, 12:46:41 »

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Quote
Quote
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I wonder why it always seems to be the nearside bearing that fails?
Nearside is the drivers side, yes? I have wondered the same, all three front bearings that I have had to replace have been on drivers side...

Our nearside is your drivers side.

Our drivers side would be your nearside.

but the near side is always near to the kerb which ever side of the road you drive on

Ok then, but still, left is left and right is right despite the side of steering wheel (which you guys have on the very wrong side of the car

)

Andy B · « **Reply #39 on:** 07 September 2011, 12:49:56 »

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... (which you guys have on the very wrong side of the car )

I think you'll find .................

sassanach · « **Reply #40 on:** 07 September 2011, 13:26:55 »

if you are not sending it back under warranty then bring the car/bearing to trowbridge and i will surface grind a couple of thou' off the inner race mating surface

Andy B · « **Reply #41 on:** 07 September 2011, 13:43:13 »

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.... and i will surface grind a couple of thou' off the inner race mating surface

Osprey · « **Reply #42 on:** 07 September 2011, 15:19:14 »

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Contitech belongs nowadays to the Schaeffler group which is the manufacturer of INA/FAG bearings so FAG and Contitech are assumably the same product.

Quote

The list above does not give much info ... FAG = FEBI I believe but finding out who actually makes the units is not easy !!

So either BuyPartsBy are ~~telling porkies~~ gravely mistaken or the same part is available for £64.26 or £29.50 with free delivery. :-?

Anyone had any experience of Contitech/INA/FAG/FEBI if they are all the same?

Osprey · « **Reply #43 on:** 07 September 2011, 15:23:13 »

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I wonder why it always seems to be the nearside bearing that fails?

More kerb strikes? Obviously doesn't apply to skilled OOF drivers

More potholes kerb side?

Roundabouts?

I wonder if it is generally the right hand one in Europe :question

Entwood · « **Reply #44 on:** 07 September 2011, 17:24:14 »

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I was actualy thinking of getting a spare second hand hub and using it as a rolling stock?

Seems like a plan, pity I threw my old one out.

Don't worry... he'll have one to play with very soon

Edit ... That statement might become untrue depending on Mr Sassanach ..

Auto Addict · « **Reply #45 on:** 07 September 2011, 17:29:32 »

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Quote
I wonder why it always seems to be the nearside bearing that fails?

More kerb strikes? Obviously doesn't apply to skilled OOF drivers

More potholes kerb side?

Roundabouts?

I wonder if it is generally the right hand one in Europe :question

Not according to the guy from Finland.

Entwood · « **Reply #46 on:** 07 September 2011, 17:37:54 »

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if you are not sending it back under warranty then bring the car/bearing to trowbridge and i will surface grind a couple of thou' off the inner race mating surface

Do you think that'll work

Trouble is it's a lot of work at your place ... stripping down, splitting the bearing, grinding, re-assembly... are you sure you have the time do do it ??

If so, sounds a plan ... PM me your phone no and I'll give you a bell to sort something out.

Extremely grateful

PM sent

TheBoy · « **Reply #47 on:** 07 September 2011, 19:41:31 »

I had the same recurring problem on my MV6 - a new bearing every year or 2, though always a fair amount of play, even when new...

In the end, under Master's advice, I go a hub/bearing from one of DLK's breakers and slapped that on. Problem mostly solved, just a tad of play in it. Not sure if the improvement was due to DLK's likely being GM bearing, or if the original stub axle itself was damaged...

feeutfo · « **Reply #48 on:** 07 September 2011, 21:17:32 »

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I had the same recurring problem on my MV6 - a new bearing every year or 2, though always a fair amount of play, even when new...

In the end, under Master's advice, I go a hub/bearing from one of DLK's breakers and slapped that on. Problem mostly solved, just a tad of play in it. Not sure if the improvement was due to DLK's likely being GM bearing, or if the original stub axle itself was damaged...

There is currently slight play in both of yours. Similar to my original off/drivers side.

IMO, There should be no play at all, sholdnt need over tightening.... Bit obvious that, sorry

Although that's a hell of a lot of leverage for two races 3/4 of an inch apart. :-/

TheBoy · « **Reply #49 on:** 07 September 2011, 21:19:20 »

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Quote
I had the same recurring problem on my MV6 - a new bearing every year or 2, though always a fair amount of play, even when new...

In the end, under Master's advice, I go a hub/bearing from one of DLK's breakers and slapped that on. Problem mostly solved, just a tad of play in it. Not sure if the improvement was due to DLK's likely being GM bearing, or if the original stub axle itself was damaged...

There is currently slight play in both of yours. Similar to my original off/drivers side.

IMO, There should be no play at all, sholdnt need over tightening.... Bit obvious that, sorry

Although that's a hell of a lot of leverage for two races 3/4 of an inch apart. :-/

The fact is with that type of bearing, I think there will always be an element of play. But had you seen it before I changed the steering knuckle over.....

feeutfo · « **Reply #50 on:** 07 September 2011, 21:22:49 »

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Quote
Quote
I had the same recurring problem on my MV6 - a new bearing every year or 2, though always a fair amount of play, even when new...

In the end, under Master's advice, I go a hub/bearing from one of DLK's breakers and slapped that on. Problem mostly solved, just a tad of play in it. Not sure if the improvement was due to DLK's likely being GM bearing, or if the original stub axle itself was damaged...

There is currently slight play in both of yours. Similar to my original off/drivers side.

IMO, There should be no play at all, sholdnt need over tightening.... Bit obvious that, sorry

Although that's a hell of a lot of leverage for two races 3/4 of an inch apart. :-/
The fact is with that type of bearing, I think there will always be an element of play. But had you seen it before I changed the steering knuckle over.....

Yep. You did ask me to check your ball barings... Sigh.

Auto Addict · « **Reply #51 on:** 08 September 2011, 07:35:16 »

Mine was replaced at Newent last year, and now has play in it.

Sourced from buypartsby.

Andy B · « **Reply #52 on:** 08 September 2011, 10:25:29 »

I'm starting to feel ~~smug~~ justified in paying dealer prices for my wheel bearing/hub 3 or 4 years ago.

Auto Addict · « **Reply #53 on:** 08 September 2011, 10:26:54 »

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I'm starting to feel ~~smug~~ justified in paying dealer prices for my wheel bearing/hub 3 or 4 years ago.

Think you made the right choice.

Entwood · « **Reply #54 on:** 08 September 2011, 17:11:46 »

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I'm starting to feel ~~smug~~ justified in paying dealer prices for my wheel bearing/hub 3 or 4 years ago.

We've decided to go that way now as well.

Sassenachs offer is very nice but might not be/solve the problem so have "bit the bullet" and ordered a "real" one.

If MarkDTM wants the old one to play with when it's removed then he's welcome to it.

If you say £122 pounds quickly it don't sound much .... until you add that to what I paid in France ...

Entwood · « **Reply #55 on:** 13 September 2011, 19:55:25 »

Well the deed is done...

Picked up the new bearing assembly last night and fitted it. No play whatsoever when tightened "firmly" .... feels so much better that the one I took off !

Took it to a local garage today without the cap and the centre of the wheel fitted, they torqued it up to 320Nm for me for a couple of quid in the HFH box

(previously arranged this

) Saved me a drive to swidnod in SWTSMBO shoppoing trolly to hire a large torque wrench as mine only goes to 210Nm.

So now I have a very nearly new (1200 miles) wheel bearing with a surprising amount of play ready for Mark to have a play with if he wants

And I just have to wait and see what happens to this one ........

All ready for a visit to WIM for full geo and 2 new tyres on Friday. Looks like I'll be getting Toyo T1-R (?) as they can't get Kumo 31 any more.

Andy B · « **Reply #56 on:** 13 September 2011, 20:06:57 »

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Well the deed is done...

Picked up the new bearing assembly last night and fitted it. No play whatsoever when tightened "firmly" .... feels so much better that the one I took off ! ....

Job done!

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Author Topic: 3.2 Wheel bearing (Read 3162 times)

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