Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Lizzie Zoom on 13 June 2019, 14:53:17
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Today's news about the suspected bombing of two oil tankers in the Gulf of Oman is very disturbing.
It has been on the news today about the bombing of two oil tankers and it is already being strongly suggested by Washington that Iranian sponsored terrorists are responsible. If this is true then we are possibly on the verge of war that has been bubbling for some time with the USA strongly suggesting Iran, a known sponsor of terrorism, and posing a new, current, escalating trend to "attack" the USA is now taking that one stage further. Trump has apparently stated we do not want conflict, but if we have to we will take action.
Trump will, strangely, be the man to face that down. He is unpredictable enough, but strong enough, to do what a US President should do if the United States of America is threatened, as it is in effect being from Iran. Weak USA Presidents are not required now!
This is a very dangerous situation, and could be a very costly one in major ways, but also the slight matter of oil prices that, it is already being reported, have spiked already!
Fill up yer tanks, and batten down the hatches! This obviously will be no joke if the situation is allowed to escallate beyond what has transpired already in diplomatic terms between the USA and Iran. Remember, US battle groups are already assembled in great numbers in the Gulf. :( :(
I am not one to usually overreact over world politics and 'developments' involving the military, but............................. :o :o
Over to Rod2!! :D :y
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The price of oil shooting up is a very good thing...………………...unless you've neglected to buy oil shares / futures in the last couple of years. :)
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The price of oil shooting up is a very good thing...………………...unless you've neglected to buy oil shares / futures in the last couple of years. :)
But what happens when the oil supplies dry up due to conflict in the Gulf with oil tankers stopped from safely sailing through the Gulf of Oman? ??? ???
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You won,t be able to carry on driving your gas guzzling Omega then Lizzie. :-*
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I was on HMS Jupiter or Hermione (old age setting in ...... it was one or the other ::)) escorting tankers through the Straights of Hormuz over 30 yrs ago for this very reason
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Storm in a teacup.
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But what happens when the oil supplies dry up due to conflict in the Gulf with oil tankers stopped from safely sailing through the Gulf of Oman? ??? ???
Why would that matter? ;)
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Also read Tiggers "Blame and Denial" thread a bit earlier. :y
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Also read Tiggers "Blame and Denial" thread a bit earlier. :y
Nah.....read Baza's instead.
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Also read Tiggers "Blame and Denial" thread a bit earlier. :y
Nah.....read Baza's instead.
:-[ Ok, will do. :y ;D Well, he did reply to it.
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C'mon, keep up at the back! ;D
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You won,t be able to carry on driving your gas guzzling Omega then Lizzie. :-*
Oh no ronnyd, not that, anything but that ! :'( :'( :'(
Still I will look on the bright side, we may not have a country to drive in anyway ::) ::) :D ;)
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I was on HMS Jupiter or Hermione (old age setting in ...... it was one or the other ::)) escorting tankers through the Straights of Hormuz over 30 yrs ago for this very reason
Times have changed since 30 years ago. We had the stability of the Cold War which kept everything in check, although that was about to cease, with the United Nations meaning something.
Now the World is very unstable again, and with modern weapons possessed by uncontrollable countries out there, the UN will be powerless to stop whatever bad events that may happen, as much as the League of Nations could not stop the events of the 1930's. ::) ::)
My fathers last ship was the then brand new HMS Fife, a Devonshire Class guided missile destroyer which then, in 1966, was so advanced and could take on Russia with USA backup. By the 1980's it was out of date. Hopefully we have a Trafalgar Class submarine 'out there somewhere', with the Gulf within range. THat may assist the safe passage of the tankers, although a correspondent was stating already shipping insurance costs have now suddenly escalated and shipping companies may well find it difficult to have cover for any ship that steams through the Gulf of Oman and no warship is going to stop that process. ;)
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Storm in a teacup.
I sincerely hope so Steve, but real trouble has been brewing in the last 3 months with at least two US battle groups now assembled off the Gulf and Trump making it clear what will happen if Iran carries on in it's threats towards the States. Now this has happened; not good! :o :o
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I don't think Iran is powerful enough to "go it alone"so it would then depend who'd back them up.Someone said many years ago that if there ever was a WWIII it would kick off in the Middle East.
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I was on HMS Jupiter or Hermione (old age setting in ...... it was one or the other ::)) escorting tankers through the Straights of Hormuz over 30 yrs ago for this very reason
Ahhh , the old Leander class Frigates. I worked on the Juno ( navigation training ship ) and the Jupiter in the late eighties. Great old ships .
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The price of oil shooting up is a very good thing...………………...unless you've neglected to buy oil shares / futures in the last couple of years. :)
But what happens when the oil supplies dry up due to conflict in the Gulf with oil tankers stopped from safely sailing through the Gulf of Oman? ??? ???
There will be a real scarcity, so the price per barrel will go through the roof. Kerching. :)
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I was on HMS Jupiter or Hermione (old age setting in ...... it was one or the other ::)) escorting tankers through the Straights of Hormuz over 30 yrs ago for this very reason
Ahhh , the old Leander class Frigates. I worked on the Juno ( navigation training ship ) and the Jupiter in the late eighties. Great old ships .
Indeed. :y
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The price of oil shooting up is a very good thing...………………...unless you've neglected to buy oil shares / futures in the last couple of years. :)
But what happens when the oil supplies dry up due to conflict in the Gulf with oil tankers stopped from safely sailing through the Gulf of Oman? ??? ???
There will be a real scarcity, so the price per barrel will go through the roof. Kerching. :)
And it won't affect the price (or non price) of 2nd hand veggie oil either! ;D
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Actually it might. It could soar to 50p per litre. If the scarcity lasts long enough my old Merc will be worth a fortune. :y ;D ;D
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Actually it might. It could soar to 50p per litre. If the scarcity lasts long enough my old Merc will be worth a fortune. :y ;D ;D
Yes and I'd imagine that old diesels capable of running on veggie oil are getting rare as well. :y
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I don't think Iran is powerful enough to "go it alone"so it would then depend who'd back them up.Someone said many years ago that if there ever was a WWIII it would kick off in the Middle East.
Recently I heard another prediction that the final conflict would start somewhere that was not expected, and not the favourite, traditional, runner of, as you say, the Middle East and centring on Jerusalem going back to the time of Jesus.
Whatever will be, will be, it's not for us to see, and as mankind is so war minded, it will happen eventually! :(
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Something happened, or rather did not happen this evening, and for the conspiracy theorists on here claiming complete state control of our news, well the BBC, it could be interesting. It has made me think, why?
It was the fact that the 1830 ITV news made no mention, not a word,about this ongoing international incident with the tankers!
Not news worthy? I do not think so as the BBC and, yes all other international news agencies are full of it on their web sites, let alone live television news programmes!
I know the Boris voting situation is important, and the awful comments of Joe Brand need questioning, but to not mention an international event that could have grave consequences and lead with the former I think is amazing.
So who is being fully censored now, ITV and not the BBC who report every international incident and events, such as the Hong Kong protests getting great coverage and this morning the tanker bombing.
Makes me wonder :o :D ;)
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Good, I like to see an open mind. It seems like until something substantial happens then the story will be held. IMO whoever is responsible for the attack Iran is on very thin ice!
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Plenty of external actors that would like to see an Iran v USA war, so best to keep an open mind on who did this until more is known. If the UK government deems that it is not in the public interest to know then a D-notice will be issued.
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The fact that these tankers were Japanese strikes me as a very interesting factor. Could be coincidence of course, but the Japanese Prime Minister has made a point of meeting up with the Iranian leader, to request they stop all nuclear development, and wants a meeting with Kim Jon to pursued N. Korea to stop nuclear development, whilst re-itterating the close ties to the USA with the Trump visit who trying also to stop those countries developing nuclear weapons. Interesting.
All players in place, so light the fuse? By whom, and why we may never know, with even Putin setting up this game to create an international incident in that part of the World to suit his intentions and play against the USA. ???
Complicated conjecture yes, diplomatically a possibility, well yes, and remember how 'The Players' of the time all did not work together diplomatically, when they were wanting a fight, after the shooting of Archduke Franz Ferdinand was the excuse to start WW1.
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The fact that these tankers were Japanese strikes me as a very interesting factor. Could be coincidence of course, but the Japanese Prime Minister has made a point of meeting up with the Iranian leader, to request they stop all nuclear development, and wants a meeting with Kim Jon to pursued N. Korea to stop nuclear development, whilst re-itterating the close ties to the USA with the Trump visit who trying also to stop those countries developing nuclear weapons. Then of course the Japanese PM has had a meeting with the Chinese leader about closer trade links, just as Trump is tightening down on trade tariffs. Interesting.
All players in place, so light the fuse? By whom, and why we may never know, with even Putin setting up this game to create an international incident in that part of the World to suit his intentions and play against the USA. ???
Complicated conjecture yes, diplomatically a possibility, well yes, and remember how 'The Players' of the time all did not work together diplomatically, when they were wanting a fight, after the shooting of Archduke Franz Ferdinand was the excuse to start WW1.
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An important adjustment is in highlights ;)
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It's now been reported that the USA have blamed the Iranians backed up[surprise,surprise by the UK ::)]Obviously the Iranians have completely refuted these allegations,will the truth ever really be known?
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Well they have bit of black and white film now ::)
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It's now been reported that the USA have blamed the Iranians backed up[surprise,surprise by the UK ::)]Obviously the Iranians have completely refuted these allegations,will the truth ever really be known?
No! ::) ::) ;) ;)
By the way Baza, very sorry for hijacking your thread on this subject. I completely missed it when it started!!! I blame it on my older age! ::) ::) ::) :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[
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It's now been reported that the USA have blamed the Iranians backed up[surprise,surprise by the UK ::)]Obviously the Iranians have completely refuted these allegations,will the truth ever really be known?
Film footage has been released today by the US alegedly showing a Iranian Revolutionary Guard boat removing unexplored mines from the side of one of the tankers at night. They have also released pictures that show one of the tankers with two blast holes in their hulls well above the waterline, which rather discounts the theory torpedoes were used.
As you said in your thread Baza, Denial and Blame is the name of the game, and as I hinted in my previous post, this is a very dangerous game! the rhetoric is certainly hotting up between Iran and USA :o :o :o :(
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Iran are playing a dangerous game. ::)
A game they are playing with the knowledge and approval of Russia and China no doubt. :(
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Iran are playing a dangerous game. ::)
A game they are playing with the knowledge and approval of Russia and China no doubt. :(
....and that is what concerns me, with maybe North Korea somewhere at the table of this game against the USA and the West generally.
History is never exactly repeated, but I still hold by my concerns that this game of diplomacy, if you can call it that, reminds me of the lead up to the Great War as I outlined before. Bad diplomacy, hidden and not so hidden agendas, political aims of conquering, misunderstandings, poor communications, obsession with revenge, leaders intent on being the man, and one spark of action, minor in itself, that ignited the storm. That is what worries me and makes me now fear for all our safety.
I just prey that whoever is the lead in any diplomacy attempting to defuse this situation has a better outcome than the unfortunate British Foreign Secraty in 1914, Sir Edward Grey!
At the very least just watch the price of oil zoom, but that actually is the very least of what should concern us :(
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No problem with the thread "hijacking" Lizzie and as for older age I don't think we're that far apart either so I'm probably as bad off as you!
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The fact that these tankers were Japanese strikes me as a very interesting factor. Could be coincidence of course, but the Japanese Prime Minister has made a point of meeting up with the Iranian leader, to request they stop all nuclear development, and wants a meeting with Kim Jon to pursued N. Korea to stop nuclear development, whilst re-itterating the close ties to the USA with the Trump visit who trying also to stop those countries developing nuclear weapons. Interesting.
All players in place, so light the fuse? By whom, and why we may never know, with even Putin setting up this game to create an international incident in that part of the World to suit his intentions and play against the USA. ???
Complicated conjecture yes, diplomatically a possibility, well yes, and remember how 'The Players' of the time all did not work together diplomatically, when they were wanting a fight, after the shooting of Archduke Franz Ferdinand was the excuse to start WW1.
Wasn.t one of them Norwegian? :-\
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No problem with the thread "hijacking" Lizzie and as for older age I don't think we're that far apart either so I'm probably as bad off as you!
:-* :-* :-* 8) :y
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The fact that these tankers were Japanese strikes me as a very interesting factor. Could be coincidence of course, but the Japanese Prime Minister has made a point of meeting up with the Iranian leader, to request they stop all nuclear development, and wants a meeting with Kim Jon to pursued N. Korea to stop nuclear development, whilst re-itterating the close ties to the USA with the Trump visit who trying also to stop those countries developing nuclear weapons. Interesting.
All players in place, so light the fuse? By whom, and why we may never know, with even Putin setting up this game to create an international incident in that part of the World to suit his intentions and play against the USA. ???
Complicated conjecture yes, diplomatically a possibility, well yes, and remember how 'The Players' of the time all did not work together diplomatically, when they were wanting a fight, after the shooting of Archduke Franz Ferdinand was the excuse to start WW1.
Wasn.t one of them Norwegian? :-\
Yes it now turns out one is, but it was stated yesterday that both were Japanese.
Now, why it was first reported as it was is a question in itself, that any conspiracy theorist could read much into. Was it fake news as Trump would claim, a deliberate error to link the Japanese Prime Minister with the attack as he is going through a programme of meeting up with the key players in those parts over nuclear weapons (who has asked him to do that, for what reason??) or simply human "error"???
We may never know, or perhaps we will! ;)
Going back in history just remember the attack on Pearl Harbour; there are a few historians who claim to have proved BOTH Winston Churchill and the American President KNEW in advance that the Japanese attacks was going to happen at Pearl, but for very obvious political reasons they let it happen. So, what Trump knows, what has actually happened, and who is involved, is a question that should be met with an open mind. History may well give us the answers in the future! :D ;)
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The confusion may have been caused by the Iranian statement that the tankers were carrying Japanese related cargo-as far as I know no-one claimed they were Japanese vessels.The Japanese despite the sanctions do export oil to Iran.
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This Statfor article well worth reading where they are one of two US companies (the other Geopolitical Futures. Both founded by George Friedman, who lives & breaths geopolitics) focusing on why Iran has attacked the tankers to boost popularity at home. I'm aware there has been significant unrest reported over the last 6 months due to sanctions & workers not getting paid. How they have brutally rebuffed Japanese PM Abe where his diplomatic mission was to try & reduce tensions between US & Iran & why such a brazen move makes very dangerous but strategic sense for the Iranian leadership. :o :(
https://worldview.stratfor.com/article/iran-going-all-against-us-trump-nuclear-oil-tanker-hormuz (https://worldview.stratfor.com/article/iran-going-all-against-us-trump-nuclear-oil-tanker-hormuz)
Iran is backed by the usual anti-west suspects of China, DPRK with missile & nuclear technology and Russia with nuclear material and missile technology. Russia has also supplied S300/S400 SAM systems to Iran. These are formidable A2D systems, especially the S400 which has anti-stealth capabilities.
https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/iran-may-have-the-s-400-in-all-but-name-what-russia-really-delivered-in-2016-and-why-it-matters (https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/iran-may-have-the-s-400-in-all-but-name-what-russia-really-delivered-in-2016-and-why-it-matters)
This 2008 paper on both the Iranian & US options is well worth reading but keep in mind that this was before the Russian update of Iranian air defense systems & the US has been massively updating their anti-mine & mine planting systems in contested airspace including the use of standoff weapons & drones.
https://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdfplus/10.1162/isec.2008.33.1.82 (https://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdfplus/10.1162/isec.2008.33.1.82)
What also needs to be remembered is that Russia under Putin has been updating and preparing their armed forces for fighting a war tomorrow, whereas the West after 1991 has got very complacent, concentrated on low-level wars against terrorists with many deficiencies when it come to fighting major adversities. Europe is largely unprepared to be able to fight any major war against major adversities with the UK and France best placed for bit parts.
https://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdfplus/10.1162/isec.2008.33.1.82 (https://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdfplus/10.1162/isec.2008.33.1.82)
If Iran decides to block the Strait of Hormuz then expect it to be closed for 1 to 3 months with a massive oil price spike & fuel shortages at best.
Weak defences encourage adversaries to try their luck & test the resolve of those they want to subdue or conquer. Western complacency, since 1991, against the Chines, Russian, Iranian & DPRK military expansion & modernization is indeed making this a very dangerous world, which is probably going to end very badly where we have empowered our enemies with their plying & European dependency on Russian oil & gas (which could / can be largely avoided by fracking known European reserves, hence lots of Russian money & agents backing for anti-fracking treehugger green groups) and our addiction to cheap Chinese tat.
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The confusion may have been caused by the Iranian statement that the tankers were carrying Japanese related cargo-as far as I know no-one claimed they were Japanese vessels.The Japanese despite the sanctions do export oil to Iran.
Once more that "Japanese" link occurs! :o :o
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This is getting even more curious in a very odd way ; as I mentioned before ITV early evening news made no mention yesterday of the tanker incident.
They have done it again, no mention during their bulletin this evening.
Of course, like most other news channels, the BBC led the news with first the continuing story of the British-Iranian woman still held in an Iranian jail, with a quick mention of the continuing tanker issue linking it in to the fact that with the mounting tensions they will not release her anytime soon.
Now, conspiracists on here: why is at least the early evening main ITV news not commenting on the very serious international incident,,whilst the great BBC is? ??? ???
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Surprise, surprise, now Saudia Arabia has stated that a "decisive" response to the tanker attacks is required.
What that "Decisive" response should be can only be guessed at! :(