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[Varche]

Would you fancy being an unarmed policeman stopping and searching the thugs potentially armed with knives.?  What could possibly go wrong.

[2boxerdogs]

Won't go into detail but we are having dealings with the Metropolitan Police while we are away in Sussex for a few days on quite a complicated matter, you cannot actually get to speak to a human everything is done via email, which hopefully will result in an answer within 48 hours (don't hold your breath) The service has been cut to the bone our son is in the force his view on stop & search is all very well giving more powers but where are the staff to carry these duties coming from ?

[Lizzie Zoom]

Would you fancy being an unarmed policeman stopping and searching the thugs potentially armed with knives.?  What could possibly go wrong.

They do it every day of the week Varche.  That is why they are covered in a stab vest and armed with tasers, mace spay and a large baton.  Often single crews will call for back up. They also face being bitten by infected people and, worse still, have dirty needles stuck in them.  Policing is a very dangerous occupation.

However, yes there are no where enough of the boys and girls in blues/blacks.  They need the 20,000 extra officers just to return to the numbers the UK forces had before austerity!

[Entwood]

Regardless of the money position ... just where do you suddenly get 20,000 SUITABLE people to even start to train as Police Officers ?? It's the same as the left wing luvvies on the health service ... "we need 20,000 more doctors" .. it takes 7 years to train a doctor, and I doubt there are many in the dole queue ...the truth is there are hundreds of vacancies for doctors (and police) at the moment .. and no-one to fil those positions .. simply making more empty positions is a rather foolish outlook IMHO

[Lizzie Zoom]

Regardless of the money position ... just where do you suddenly get 20,000 SUITABLE people to even start to train as Police Officers ?? It's the same as the left wing luvvies on the health service ... "we need 20,000 more doctors" .. it takes 7 years to train a doctor, and I doubt there are many in the dole queue ...the truth is there are hundreds of vacancies for doctors (and police) at the moment .. and no-one to fil those positions .. simply making more empty positions is a rather foolish outlook IMHO

You cannot compare training a police officer with training a doctor.  Training of a PC lasts about 18 weeks at Police Training Colleges, then the next part means they should be fully operational in 2 years.  The police are recruiting new PC's constantly, and over the whole country they will increase the recruiting and training rates to obtain the 20,000 once approved. There are many young people who are suitable for those roles, and all they need is the vacancies to be available for them to be encouraged to join.

[Entwood]

According to total jobs there are, today, 842 unfilled police vacancies within 30 miles of London ... if what you say is true .. "There are many young people who are suitable for those roles, and all they need is the vacancies to be available for them to be encouraged to join." there would be no vacancies.

Not wanting to pick a fight in any way, but there is a reality that is missed by a lot of commentators .. it is not possible to click ones fingers and produce suitable, qualified, people for most jobs/trades simply because you wish it to be so.... or because it makes a nice political sound bite.

[Lizzie Zoom]

According to total jobs there are, today, 842 unfilled police vacancies within 30 miles of London ... if what you say is true .. "There are many young people who are suitable for those roles, and all they need is the vacancies to be available for them to be encouraged to join." there would be no vacancies.

Not wanting to pick a fight in any way, but there is a reality that is missed by a lot of commentators .. it is not possible to click ones fingers and produce suitable, qualified, people for most jobs/trades simply because you wish it to be so.... or because it makes a nice political sound bite.

That is down to a) the police are now recruiting based on some extra funding they are receiving / going to receive from the Government b) the pressures on the police 'out there now', are immense; they are very demorilised and have felt let down for some time, with many deciding to call it a day causing even further shortages that place even more pressure on those left. Illness and mental illness has had it's effects.

That is why there are vacancies, and will be until far more support, and funds to recruit, is given. 

[Sir Tigger KC]

A cynical view might be that in the drive to be more diverse, Police Forces across the country are not recruiting from the traditional pool of ex-forces personnel and are trying unsuccessfully to recruit from a sector of society that simply don't want to be Police Officers.     

[Doctor Gollum]

A cynical view might be that in the drive to be more diverse, Police Forces across the country are not recruiting from the traditional pool of ex-forces personnel and are trying unsuccessfully to recruit from a sector of society that simply don't want to be Police Officers.     

Well, there's also that

[hotel21]

According to total jobs there are, today, 842 unfilled police vacancies within 30 miles of London ... if what you say is true .. "There are many young people who are suitable for those roles, and all they need is the vacancies to be available for them to be encouraged to join." there would be no vacancies.

Not wanting to pick a fight in any way, but there is a reality that is missed by a lot of commentators .. it is not possible to click ones fingers and produce suitable, qualified, people for most jobs/trades simply because you wish it to be so.... or because it makes a nice political sound bite.

Agree wholeheartedly.

Similar to those luvvies who wish to bring back military national service. 

How many of the already overstretched trained military would additionally be required to persuade the current crop of gender neutral snowflakes mixed with attitude overladen teens who would rather take their ‘entitlement’ of cash from the state for doing fekall?

[hotel21]

Would you fancy being an unarmed policeman stopping and searching the thugs potentially armed with knives.?  What could possibly go wrong.

No.

Been there, done that.

Even worse now where your wingman simply does not exist to cover your back and even pressing your red button on the radio, when in a rural area, means a second copper to assist is a 20 minute blue light run away.  You would be a long time dead by time they appear.....

[hotel21]

Regardless of the money position ... just where do you suddenly get 20,000 SUITABLE people to even start to train as Police Officers ?? It's the same as the left wing luvvies on the health service ... "we need 20,000 more doctors" .. it takes 7 years to train a doctor, and I doubt there are many in the dole queue ...the truth is there are hundreds of vacancies for doctors (and police) at the moment .. and no-one to fil those positions .. simply making more empty positions is a rather foolish outlook IMHO

You cannot compare training a police officer with training a doctor.  Training of a PC lasts about 18 weeks at Police Training Colleges, then the next part means they should be fully operational in 2 years.  The police are recruiting new PC's constantly, and over the whole country they will increase the recruiting and training rates to obtain the 20,000 once approved. There are many young people who are suitable for those roles, and all they need is the vacancies to be available for them to be encouraged to join.

Yes you can compare doctors and police officers in this fashion, in my opinion.  For each to be suitably effective in their field, once you take out the quotient of ‘do no harm’ from a doctor, each has to be effective in an extremely short, though comparable, timescale.

The ability to backfil, the current shortfall in both roles is, at best, glacial.

[78bex]

According to total jobs there are, today, 842 unfilled police vacancies within 30 miles of London ... if what you say is true .. "There are many young people who are suitable for those roles, and all they need is the vacancies to be available for them to be encouraged to join." there would be no vacancies.

Not wanting to pick a fight in any way, but there is a reality that is missed by a lot of commentators .. it is not possible to click ones fingers and produce suitable, qualified, people for most jobs/trades simply because you wish it to be so.... or because it makes a nice political sound bite.

That is down to a) the police are now recruiting based on some extra funding they are receiving / going to receive from the Government b) the pressures on the police 'out there now', are immense; they are very demorilised and have felt let down for some time, with many deciding to call it a day causing even further shortages that place even more pressure on those left. Illness and mental illness has had it's effects.

That is why there are vacancies, and will be until far more support, and funds to recruit, is given. 

Lets hope HMG fork out an additional 20% in funding, cos that`s  the percentage increase thet  some folks will be paying in this years council tax   

  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-47625966

 

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Nice to see Brucie back on OOF again. Your no nonsense wisdom has been  much missed. 
Whatever happened to that daft lad of yours who lives in Stoke ?    

[Lizzie Zoom]

According to total jobs there are, today, 842 unfilled police vacancies within 30 miles of London ... if what you say is true .. "There are many young people who are suitable for those roles, and all they need is the vacancies to be available for them to be encouraged to join." there would be no vacancies.

Not wanting to pick a fight in any way, but there is a reality that is missed by a lot of commentators .. it is not possible to click ones fingers and produce suitable, qualified, people for most jobs/trades simply because you wish it to be so.... or because it makes a nice political sound bite.

That is down to a) the police are now recruiting based on some extra funding they are receiving / going to receive from the Government b) the pressures on the police 'out there now', are immense; they are very demorilised and have felt let down for some time, with many deciding to call it a day causing even further shortages that place even more pressure on those left. Illness and mental illness has had it's effects.

That is why there are vacancies, and will be until far more support, and funds to recruit, is given. 

Lets hope HMG fork out an additional 20% in funding, cos that`s  the percentage increase thet  some folks will be paying in this years council tax   

  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-47625966

 

Yes, in Kent we are already

All for it to get the numbers of police we need on the streets and start to address the pressures the officer faces on the street; I constantly see their frustration of not being able to achieve what the public demand them to achieve.  As hotel21 states so often, at least in Kent, officers, single crewed, can be 'down', requiring immediate assistance but the nearest fellow officer is on the other side of the county and even with blue's and two's will take all too long to get there.  Answering 999's is also not good, with officers and the control room having to choose priorities.  Two hour response times are not unusual, and although much work has been done to improve that and the 101 service, it is still not at the level that satisfies the public AND senior police officers.  Without the extra 20,000 officers 21st century policing in the UK will never be at satisfactory levels, hence the increase in violent crime.  The crims just know that the chances of the police arriving quickly at the incident they have caused is very slim.

So, yes I am happy to pay extra out of my pensions for the extra officers and if it takes initiatives of the likes of our Kent Crime and Police Commissioner, Matthew Scott, to fund (200 additional officers so far) some of the extra needed by way of Council Tax, then so be it.

[hotel21]

The point that the vast majority neglect to realise is that the 20k extra officers are simple replacing those culled byTM whilst Home Secretary and simply revert to numbers of time past.

In addition, when news outlets and HMG spout that ‘extra patrols’ are being deployed, that does not mean that the magic box of extra officers has been discovered but those already stretched to and beyond breaking point are having rest days cancelled or being removed from an already short staffed area to workin another.

TJF indeed......

[2boxerdogs]

A lot of the officers who were "culled" have been employed in civilian roles within the Police Service & are used as advisors because of the experience they have.

[Varche]

It is a fairly parlous state of affairs.

Britain is a rich country and yet there aren't enough policemen or ambulances or a hundred other public servants or services. There is plenty of money around it just isn't going to the right places.

Tories cut public spending
Labour bloat public spending (and borrowing)

[hotel21]

A lot of the officers who were "culled" have been employed in civilian roles within the Police Service & are used as advisors because of the experience they have.

Define ‘a lot’.

90%? 50%?  10%?

I would suggest that by far and away the vast majority want nothing more to do with the Police Service.  If indeed it is still considered a ‘Service’ and not simply a job.

[2boxerdogs]

A lot of the officers who were "culled" have been employed in civilian roles within the Police Service & are used as advisors because of the experience they have.

Define ‘a lot’.

90%? 50%?  10%?

I would suggest that by far and away the vast majority want nothing more to do with the Police Service.  If indeed it is still considered a ‘Service’ and not simply a job.

.

Yorkshire 40 percent.

[hotel21]

A lot of the officers who were "culled" have been employed in civilian roles within the Police Service & are used as advisors because of the experience they have.

Define ‘a lot’.

90%? 50%?  10%?

I would suggest that by far and away the vast majority want nothing more to do with the Police Service.  If indeed it is still considered a ‘Service’ and not simply a job.

.

Yorkshire 40 percent.

That percentage surprises me.  How many simply retired and got a civi job afterwards?  Not uncommon for that to happen.

[Doctor Gollum]

It is a fairly parlous state of affairs.

Britain is a rich country and yet there aren't enough policemen or ambulances or a hundred other public servants or services. There is plenty of money around it just isn't going to the right places.

Tories cut public spending
Labour bloat public spending (and borrowing)

If Liebour hadn't spent all the money (and plenty more after) that the Tories made in the previous government, the current government wouldn't have needed to cut back.

[Doctor Gollum]

A lot of the officers who were "culled" have been employed in civilian roles within the Police Service & are used as advisors because of the experience they have.

Define ‘a lot’.

90%? 50%?  10%?

I would suggest that by far and away the vast majority want nothing more to do with the Police Service.  If indeed it is still considered a ‘Service’ and not simply a job.

.

Yorkshire 40 percent.

That percentage surprises me.  How many simply retired and got a civi job afterwards?  Not uncommon for that to happen.

Having started as a cadet, my uncle was forced to retire at around 50. He did a bit of related consulting work, but quite quickly moved into other areas and hasn't looked back.

A large part of the financial problem is that the budgets won't cover existing pensions as well as significant wage increases or extra personnel. Something has to give and there would be hell to pay if the pensions were cut back.

[2boxerdogs]

A lot of the officers who were "culled" have been employed in civilian roles within the Police Service & are used as advisors because of the experience they have.

Define ‘a lot’.

90%? 50%?  10%?

I would suggest that by far and away the vast majority want nothing more to do with the Police Service.  If indeed it is still considered a ‘Service’ and not simply a job.

.

Yorkshire 40 percent.

That percentage surprises me.  How many simply retired and got a civi job afterwards?  Not uncommon for that to happen.

Having started as a cadet, my uncle was forced to retire at around 50. He did a bit of related consulting work, but quite quickly moved into other areas and hasn't looked back.

A large part of the financial problem is that the budgets won't cover existing pensions as well as significant wage increases or extra personnel. Something has to give and there would be hell to pay if the pensions were cut back.

.


Exactly the same scenario in HMPS

[Lizzie Zoom]

The point that the vast majority neglect to realise is that the 20k extra officers are simple replacing those culled byTM whilst Home Secretary and simply revert to numbers of time past.

In addition, when news outlets and HMG spout that ‘extra patrols’ are being deployed, that does not mean that the magic box of extra officers has been discovered but those already stretched to and beyond breaking point are having rest days cancelled or being removed from an already short staffed area to workin another.

TJF indeed......

I think the general public do understand all that, and if they do not they must be thick and not have listened to the media reports and senior police officers protestations.

When officers fail to turn up after a treble nine call, and when they are told "officers have had to be diverted", they then get the full picture, and the local criminals know all that only too well as I stated.

[Lizzie Zoom]

A lot of the officers who were "culled" have been employed in civilian roles within the Police Service & are used as advisors because of the experience they have.

Define ‘a lot’.

90%? 50%?  10%?

I would suggest that by far and away the vast majority want nothing more to do with the Police Service.  If indeed it is still considered a ‘Service’ and not simply a job.

Indeed, that is what I have found to be the case.  Only a relatively few retired senior officers I have found to be operating in advisory roles.  Certainly the police down here seem to rely a lot on us civilian advisors, but that all rests on our past / existing skills and knowledge.  I would sooner see more ex-job men and women advising, but many go into other civilian roles, such as my old company's Security Department where they were very useful for us to catch our set of criminals! They got to enjoy their police pensions and attract a nice salary with Company pension. All they missed, so they stated to me, was the power of their warrant cards as one was a DCI, the other a DCS.  Win win all round!

[TheBoy]

Having had my 2nd Council tax letter in 2 weeks (yes, our council really are that incompitent and wasteful, but then they are the lowest of the civil servants on the uselessness scale), I seem to be being charged a lot for Police, but there is no visibility of improvement.  And clearly more violent crime is on the increase here, hence there is now only 1 cashpoint in the town, as all the others kept getting nicked, or the latest stunt, to mame the security people filling them, so 4 of the 5 cashpoints are gone for good.

[TheBoy]

I think my local (manned) cop shop is towcester.  Just south of Towcester is the Super Sausage, that is always full of Jam Sandwiches.  Maybe they have a lot of trouble there 


(Now obviously everybody is entitled to a tea break etc, but they really could be a little less obvious...   ...particularly when I often follow a Jam Sandwich from the cop shop down the A5 to the Super Sausage, a distance of about 4 miles.)

I do have the greatest respect for the majority of police officers, but the management of it is definately typical civil service, and obviously there are one or 2 bad apples...

[Sir Tigger KC]

One thing that I think is utterly ridiculous is the fact that we have 40 odd Police Forces across England and Wales.    My nearest manned Police station is in Axminster which is about 5 miles away and that's Devon and Cornwall, but I live just over the border in Dorset and the nearest manned Dorset police station is Bridport which is 10 miles.  I think the nearest 24 hour station is Weymouth and thats 25 miles.

There was talk of merging Devon and Cornwall Constabulary with Dorset Police, but it didn't happen probably more for local political than operational reasons. 

[Kevin Wood]

It won't be long before each force only has one Police station to worry about. 

The one in Alton has now closed but they've opened an office next to the buttie van in the industrial estate. They can park their jam sandwiches out of sight there where there's no likelihood of "passing trade". I'm sure the proximity to the buttie van is purely coincidental.

The Police station in Bridport seems to serve no purpose other than to ensure the already stretched car parking in the area is permanently half full of Police vehicles.

[Doctor Gollum]

We still have a police station in the village, but as it is only open between 11:59 and noon on the fifth Wednesday of the month... It's only purpose seems to be somewhere for the traffic bobbies to catch their breaths/file paperwork whilst chasing motorbyciclists up and down the A29

[GastronomicKleptomaniac]

I live in a northern town, and work mainly in another, not without it's problem areas. On the whole, police are sent out single-crewed on days, only doubling up on nights, in order to spread the thin blue line even thinner.