Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: Andy H on 15 April 2018, 20:50:15

Title: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Andy H on 15 April 2018, 20:50:15
Sat on hard shoulder of M25 just past the M23

First AA van has been out and agreed that it is probably the water pump on SWMBO'S Galaxy tdi

How long do you think it will be before the lorry comes to scoop us up?

How long to get back to Cornwall?

And will it make any difference that we have a 2 year old and a 3 year old asleep in the back?
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Sir Tigger QC on 15 April 2018, 20:58:06
Sat on hard shoulder of M25 just past the M23

First AA van has been out and agreed that it is probably the water pump on SWMBO'S Galaxy tdi

How long do you think it will be before the lorry comes to scoop us up?  About 3 hours!  ::)

How long to get back to Cornwall? You might get back for breakfast!   :P

And will it make any difference that we have a 2 year old and a 3 year old asleep in the back? Nope!  >:(

Sounds like a complete nightmare Andy. Good luck!!  :)
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Andy B on 15 April 2018, 21:02:51
Good luck  .....  :y
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 15 April 2018, 22:47:43
It won't help, but the waterpump should have been changed with the timing belt...

Don't expect to get all the way to Cornwall in one hit unless they bring you a hire car...  :'(
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Kevin Wood on 15 April 2018, 23:03:41
Bu66er! Sorry to hear that. :(

That seems to be the way these days. They send out the bloke in the van, who's equipped to fix nothing, to make sure it's not user error, then they've met their response time target so can take their time getting a useful vehicle to you. :(

Still, kids asleep in a vehicle in the hard shoulder should damned well make you a priority.
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Bigron on 15 April 2018, 23:58:03
It won't help, but the waterpump should have been changed with the timing belt...

Don't expect to get all the way to Cornwall in one hit unless they bring you a hire car...  :'(

I am with Green Flag and a few years back I had a core plug let go on my Carlton whilst on a caravan site in Wareham, so they took me to my next holiday site near Looe, Cornwall, in one go. Then, after the holiday was over and the car was still in trouble, they came out again and took me all the way back to Witham, Essex.
As I am with the Caravan Club's Mayday scheme, the double call-out only cost me one "life".
I thought that was excellent srevice.  :y 8) :)

Ron.
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 16 April 2018, 00:44:46
Wareham to Looe, and back can be done within driving hours... Gatwick to Looe cannot.

Rightly or not, Andy's car will be relayed.

Must say, that I am a bit surprised that the first driver didn't drag the car to Cobham services :-\
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: STEMO on 16 April 2018, 07:04:40
I hope you're all back home, safe and sound, Andy.
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: tunnie on 16 April 2018, 07:47:01
The kids should bump up your priority, hope all Ok  :y
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Andy H on 16 April 2018, 08:26:43
It won't help, but the waterpump should have been changed with the timing belt...

Don't expect to get all the way to Cornwall in one hit unless they bring you a hire car...  :'(
after 2.5 hours on the hard shoulder a lorry arrived to scoop us up and take us to Cobham services

A taxi was waiting which took us to a car hire  at Heathrow

We then squeezed ourselves into a Vauxhall mocha X (maybe wrong name but I haven't  seen it in daylight yet) and drove home.

Got home at 5am, 2 year old woke up full of smiles at 8am wanting breakfast.....

Don't know where the Galaxy is now :-\
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Andy H on 16 April 2018, 08:52:21
It won't help, but the waterpump should have been changed with the timing belt...

Don't expect to get all the way to Cornwall in one hit unless they bring you a hire car...  :'(
I did fit a new pump when I changed the belt and tensioner >:(
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Andy H on 16 April 2018, 08:56:04
Wareham to Looe, and back can be done within driving hours... Gatwick to Looe cannot.

Rightly or not, Andy's car will be relayed.

Must say, that I am a bit surprised that the first driver didn't drag the car to Cobham services :-\
He had the bar on and was just about to get me to make a mark on his tablet when the screen went red and vetoed the tow because the Galaxy weighs 1895kg and his towing limit was 2000kg **sigh**
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Nick W on 16 April 2018, 09:21:15
Wareham to Looe, and back can be done within driving hours... Gatwick to Looe cannot.

Rightly or not, Andy's car will be relayed.

Must say, that I am a bit surprised that the first driver didn't drag the car to Cobham services :-\


The weight of the car and number of passengers each rule out using a 3.5 ton vehicle, not the AA have any. Which means driving hours apply, and there isn't enough time to do the job - don't forget the driver has to get back to base.
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 16 April 2018, 09:59:08
It won't help, but the waterpump should have been changed with the timing belt...

Don't expect to get all the way to Cornwall in one hit unless they bring you a hire car...  :'(
after 2.5 hours on the hard shoulder a lorry arrived to scoop us up and take us to Cobham services

A taxi was waiting which took us to a car hire  at Heathrow

We then squeezed ourselves into a Vauxhall mocha X (maybe wrong name but I haven't  seen it in daylight yet) and drove home.

Got home at 5am, 2 year old woke up full of smiles at 8am wanting breakfast.....

Don't know where the Galaxy is now :-\
It will turn up in the next day or so.

Glad you're all home safe, though, even if it was a long night :y

Unlucky having the pump go if done with the belt... Normally people do the belt on time, but wonder why the pump goes 20-40k later ::)
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Bigron on 16 April 2018, 10:42:44
Wareham to Looe, and back can be done within driving hours... Gatwick to Looe cannot.

Rightly or not, Andy's car will be relayed.

Must say, that I am a bit surprised that the first driver didn't drag the car to Cobham services :-\

You misread me, DG - the journey home was from Looe to Witham, Essex, which he did in one lump. It certainly saved me petrol!  :)

Ron.
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Kevin Wood on 16 April 2018, 11:44:45
Wareham to Looe, and back can be done within driving hours... Gatwick to Looe cannot.

Rightly or not, Andy's car will be relayed.

Must say, that I am a bit surprised that the first driver didn't drag the car to Cobham services :-\
He had the bar on and was just about to get me to make a mark on his tablet when the screen went red and vetoed the tow because the Galaxy weighs 1895kg and his towing limit was 2000kg **sigh**

.. which isn't relevant if towing a vehicle to a "safe place" anyway.  ::)
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 16 April 2018, 12:58:23
Indeed, you or I could have legally dragged any car off the motorway with a ratchet strap...

Cobham services would have been the next but one exit, so whilst not technically legal, you could reasonably argue that it would have been the most sensible course of action as the services there are 24h, have accommodation and would thereby be the most suitable nearest refuge for a family travelling with small children ::)
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 16 April 2018, 12:58:48
Wareham to Looe, and back can be done within driving hours... Gatwick to Looe cannot.

Rightly or not, Andy's car will be relayed.

Must say, that I am a bit surprised that the first driver didn't drag the car to Cobham services :-\

You misread me, DG - the journey home was from Looe to Witham, Essex, which he did in one lump. It certainly saved me petrol!  :)

Ron.
Not legally  ::)
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Gaffers on 16 April 2018, 13:22:53
Wareham to Looe, and back can be done within driving hours... Gatwick to Looe cannot.

Rightly or not, Andy's car will be relayed.

Must say, that I am a bit surprised that the first driver didn't drag the car to Cobham services :-\

You misread me, DG - the journey home was from Looe to Witham, Essex, which he did in one lump. It certainly saved me petrol!  :)

Ron.
Not legally  ::)

'A few years back' could translate to being before driver's hours regulations coming in to force.  I mean, he is old and senile so yesterday could have been 1974 in his mind :D
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Kevin Wood on 16 April 2018, 13:27:25
A mate of mine broke down in his kit car a couple of years back - in Glencoe. A local recovery driver turned up and took him back home to Staines in one hit, then declined a cup of coffee, turned round and drove back!
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 16 April 2018, 13:34:53
A mate of mine broke down in his kit car a couple of years back - in Glencoe. A local recovery driver turned up and took him back home to Staines in one hit, then declined a cup of coffee, turned round and drove back!
There's the thing, if the car is light enough to keep the 3.5t flatbed below 3.5t, then you can do this perfectly legally... 
 :D
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Kevin Wood on 16 April 2018, 13:37:57
A mate of mine broke down in his kit car a couple of years back - in Glencoe. A local recovery driver turned up and took him back home to Staines in one hit, then declined a cup of coffee, turned round and drove back!
There's the thing, if the car is light enough to keep the 3.5t flatbed below 3.5t, then you can do this perfectly legally... 
 :D
Indeed, and the car was a Robin Hood so probably sub-600kg. I have a recollection that what turned up was a double car job with a crew cab, though, so likely 7.5t.
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Bigron on 16 April 2018, 13:51:13
Wareham to Looe, and back can be done within driving hours... Gatwick to Looe cannot.

Rightly or not, Andy's car will be relayed.

Must say, that I am a bit surprised that the first driver didn't drag the car to Cobham services :-\

You misread me, DG - the journey home was from Looe to Witham, Essex, which he did in one lump. It certainly saved me petrol!  :)

Ron.
Not legally  ::)

'A few years back' could translate to being before driver's hours regulations coming in to force.  I mean, he is old and senile so yesterday could have been 1974 in his mind :D

I do mean just a few years back and it was a small recovery vehicle with just room in the cab for me and SHMBO and similarly just room for my car on the back.
However, I don't apprecaite the "old and senile" insult, thanks.

Ron.
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Gaffers on 16 April 2018, 15:27:31
Wareham to Looe, and back can be done within driving hours... Gatwick to Looe cannot.

Rightly or not, Andy's car will be relayed.

Must say, that I am a bit surprised that the first driver didn't drag the car to Cobham services :-\

You misread me, DG - the journey home was from Looe to Witham, Essex, which he did in one lump. It certainly saved me petrol!  :)

Ron.
Not legally  ::)

'A few years back' could translate to being before driver's hours regulations coming in to force.  I mean, he is old and senile so yesterday could have been 1974 in his mind :D

I do mean just a few years back and it was a small recovery vehicle with just room in the cab for me and SHMBO and similarly just room for my car on the back.
However, I don't apprecaite the "old and senile" insult, thanks.

Ron.

Would you like a tissue?
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: TheBoy on 16 April 2018, 17:34:11
I'm glad you're back safely Andy H :y.  Mrs TB tells me it was stressful when we broke down in France. Me, being me, was unconcerned, and I told her not to worry, and as soon as we get home, you'll tell people, and find its realtively common.  She still reminds me frequently that she is yet to meet anyone else who has broken down abroad, and had to come home in a hire car.

Now you just have the worries about the car getting back - not that I expect any issues, but its worrying none the less.
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: ronnyd on 16 April 2018, 20:12:57
A mate of mine broke down in his kit car a couple of years back - in Glencoe. A local recovery driver turned up and took him back home to Staines in one hit, then declined a cup of coffee, turned round and drove back!
Broke down in Ilfracombe when i had my Mk3 Granny (radiator let go). Local dealers in Barnstable didn,t have one so was driven back on a transporter with a crew cab as there were four of us. He drove us from North Devon to Bury St.Eds, dropped car off and went straight back :o. Not only that, he dropped Mum and Dad off in Haverhill too. Think my old man gave him 20quid which was a fair bit in those days, He was supposed to be riding at a Moto cross meeting so that really screwed up his weekend. Nice guy too. :y
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Andy H on 16 April 2018, 21:45:10
I'm glad you're back safely Andy H :y.  Mrs TB tells me it was stressful when we broke down in France. Me, being me, was unconcerned, and I told her not to worry, and as soon as we get home, you'll tell people, and find its realtively common.  She still reminds me frequently that she is yet to meet anyone else who has broken down abroad, and had to come home in a hire car.

Now you just have the worries about the car getting back - not that I expect any issues, but its worrying none the less.
Thanks  TB
Just had a call to say that the thing is now in Plymouth and should be delivered within the hour.
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Varche on 16 April 2018, 22:00:37
It illustrates the value of breakdown cover. Glad you got back home safe and sound . :y
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Andy H on 16 April 2018, 22:27:24
Thanks to everyone for wishing us well.

The Galaxy has returned.

The local garage are booked up solid until next week so I suppose I am going to have to fix it  :( (and rediscover the sad truth that 50% of the bolts on a VAG TDi are B-starred-bolts >:(

Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Lazydocker on 17 April 2018, 03:37:59
A mate of mine broke down in his kit car a couple of years back - in Glencoe. A local recovery driver turned up and took him back home to Staines in one hit, then declined a cup of coffee, turned round and drove back!
There's the thing, if the car is light enough to keep the 3.5t flatbed below 3.5t, then you can do this perfectly legally... 
 :D

Add to that Recovery vehicles used to be Tacho exempt and its easy enough to do long recoveries in the old days... I did my fair share :-X ::)
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: henryd on 17 April 2018, 10:15:22
Thanks to everyone for wishing us well.

The Galaxy has returned.

The local garage are booked up solid until next week so I suppose I am going to have to fix it  :( (and rediscover the sad truth that 50% of the bolts on a VAG TDi are B-starred-bolts >:(

When the pump failed did it shed its timing belt ?
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Andy H on 17 April 2018, 10:40:41
I expect that the pump impeller has come loose on the shaft.

To get to the pump the cam belt has to come off.

To get to the cam belt the engine mount, air filter and various covers have to come off. There isn't enough space to get a ratchet in to the engine mount bolts (in fact there isn't enough space to get the engine mount out in one piece so it has to be bolted together)

I fitted a new pump and cambelt kit last year. Pump and cambelt kit came from GSF but I don't know if I will be able to find the receipt

I feel that I am lacking some trade knowledge about where to get good quality parts for a VW in a (Ford frock) at decent prices.

I have lost confidence in GSF but I don't know of a better supplier :-\
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Andy H on 17 April 2018, 10:56:22
Thanks to everyone for wishing us well.

The Galaxy has returned.

The local garage are booked up solid until next week so I suppose I am going to have to fix it  :( (and rediscover the sad truth that 50% of the bolts on a VAG TDi are B-starred-bolts >:(

When the pump failed did it shed its timing belt ?
No - engine still running fine with no loss of power

The dash lit up like a Christmas tree and I pulled over to the hard shoulder as quick as I could. There is an auxiliary coolant pump that runs on for a few minutes and I am hoping that it has allowed the engine to cool evenly and avoid permanent damage to head or head gasket :-\

The AA man confirmed my snap diagnosis by disconnecting the little hose to the top of the expansion bottle and getting me to rev the engine. He didn't get the anticipated jet of coolant
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: henryd on 17 April 2018, 14:54:09
Thanks to everyone for wishing us well.

The Galaxy has returned.

The local garage are booked up solid until next week so I suppose I am going to have to fix it  :( (and rediscover the sad truth that 50% of the bolts on a VAG TDi are B-starred-bolts >:(

When the pump failed did it shed its timing belt ?
No - engine still running fine with no loss of power

The dash lit up like a Christmas tree and I pulled over to the hard shoulder as quick as I could. There is an auxiliary coolant pump that runs on for a few minutes and I am hoping that it has allowed the engine to cool evenly and avoid permanent damage to head or head gasket :-\

The AA man confirmed my snap diagnosis by disconnecting the little hose to the top of the expansion bottle and getting me to rev the engine. He didn't get the anticipated jet of coolant

Result,genuine pump isn't a fortune from memory,probably cheaper at Ford than VW though :y
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Andy H on 17 April 2018, 16:37:44
Thanks to everyone for wishing us well.

The Galaxy has returned.

The local garage are booked up solid until next week so I suppose I am going to have to fix it  :( (and rediscover the sad truth that 50% of the bolts on a VAG TDi are B-starred-bolts >:(

When the pump failed did it shed its timing belt ?
No - engine still running fine with no loss of power

The dash lit up like a Christmas tree and I pulled over to the hard shoulder as quick as I could. There is an auxiliary coolant pump that runs on for a few minutes and I am hoping that it has allowed the engine to cool evenly and avoid permanent damage to head or head gasket :-\

The AA man confirmed my snap diagnosis by disconnecting the little hose to the top of the expansion bottle and getting me to rev the engine. He didn't get the anticipated jet of coolant

Result,genuine pump isn't a fortune from memory,probably cheaper at Ford than VW though :y
Can you recommend where best to get genuine Ford parts in the Plymouth area?
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: henryd on 17 April 2018, 17:07:33
Thanks to everyone for wishing us well.

The Galaxy has returned.

The local garage are booked up solid until next week so I suppose I am going to have to fix it  :( (and rediscover the sad truth that 50% of the bolts on a VAG TDi are B-starred-bolts >:(

When the pump failed did it shed its timing belt ?
No - engine still running fine with no loss of power

The dash lit up like a Christmas tree and I pulled over to the hard shoulder as quick as I could. There is an auxiliary coolant pump that runs on for a few minutes and I am hoping that it has allowed the engine to cool evenly and avoid permanent damage to head or head gasket :-\

The AA man confirmed my snap diagnosis by disconnecting the little hose to the top of the expansion bottle and getting me to rev the engine. He didn't get the anticipated jet of coolant

Result,genuine pump isn't a fortune from memory,probably cheaper at Ford than VW though :y
Can you recommend where best to get genuine Ford parts in the Plymouth area?

http://www.vospers.com/our-company/dealerships/plymouth/

Don't think there's anywhere else tbh
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Andy H on 17 April 2018, 17:18:05
Thanks to everyone for wishing us well.

The Galaxy has returned.

The local garage are booked up solid until next week so I suppose I am going to have to fix it  :( (and rediscover the sad truth that 50% of the bolts on a VAG TDi are B-starred-bolts >:(

When the pump failed did it shed its timing belt ?
No - engine still running fine with no loss of power

The dash lit up like a Christmas tree and I pulled over to the hard shoulder as quick as I could. There is an auxiliary coolant pump that runs on for a few minutes and I am hoping that it has allowed the engine to cool evenly and avoid permanent damage to head or head gasket :-\

The AA man confirmed my snap diagnosis by disconnecting the little hose to the top of the expansion bottle and getting me to rev the engine. He didn't get the anticipated jet of coolant

Result,genuine pump isn't a fortune from memory,probably cheaper at Ford than VW though :y
Can you recommend where best to get genuine Ford parts in the Plymouth area?

http://www.vospers.com/our-company/dealerships/plymouth/

Don't think there's anywhere else tbh
OK thanks for confirming that Vospers are the only show in town.

The presence of all the other car brands had me doubting that they were the Ford franchise holders  :-\
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: TheBoy on 17 April 2018, 17:24:59
The Galaxy has returned.
:y

I know its a silly worry, but I found it was a big relief when the car was back with me.

Now you just need to fix the damn thing ;D
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: TheBoy on 17 April 2018, 17:27:24
I feel that I am lacking some trade knowledge about where to get good quality parts for a VW in a (Ford frock) at decent prices.
I haven't really used in anger, only picked stuff up for mates, but I work near a TPS, who I believe are a bit like TC for VW?
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Andy H on 17 April 2018, 18:12:58
I feel that I am lacking some trade knowledge about where to get good quality parts for a VW in a (Ford frock) at decent prices.
I haven't really used in anger, only picked stuff up for mates, but I work near a TPS, who I believe are a bit like TC for VW?
I was intending to give TPS a try but I won't be surprised if they they get a bit sniffy about dealing with a Ford
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: TheBoy on 17 April 2018, 18:21:14
I feel that I am lacking some trade knowledge about where to get good quality parts for a VW in a (Ford frock) at decent prices.
I haven't really used in anger, only picked stuff up for mates, but I work near a TPS, who I believe are a bit like TC for VW?
I was intending to give TPS a try but I won't be surprised if they they get a bit sniffy about dealing with a Ford
The worse they can say is no sir....
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Andy H on 18 April 2018, 22:04:15
I feel that I am lacking some trade knowledge about where to get good quality parts for a VW in a (Ford frock) at decent prices.
I haven't really used in anger, only picked stuff up for mates, but I work near a TPS, who I believe are a bit like TC for VW?
I was intending to give TPS a try but I won't be surprised if they they get a bit sniffy about dealing with a Ford
The worse they can say is no sir....
Which is exactly what they did say.

First question was 'what garage are you calling from?'
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Andy H on 18 April 2018, 22:08:08
Thanks to everyone for wishing us well.

The Galaxy has returned.

The local garage are booked up solid until next week so I suppose I am going to have to fix it  :( (and rediscover the sad truth that 50% of the bolts on a VAG TDi are B-starred-bolts >:(

When the pump failed did it shed its timing belt ?
No - engine still running fine with no loss of power

The dash lit up like a Christmas tree and I pulled over to the hard shoulder as quick as I could. There is an auxiliary coolant pump that runs on for a few minutes and I am hoping that it has allowed the engine to cool evenly and avoid permanent damage to head or head gasket :-\

The AA man confirmed my snap diagnosis by disconnecting the little hose to the top of the expansion bottle and getting me to rev the engine. He didn't get the anticipated jet of coolant

Result,genuine pump isn't a fortune from memory,probably cheaper at Ford than VW though :y
101.14 apparently. I thought that was a bit steep.

They don't have them in stock either so I went back to GSF and bought a different brand to the one that failed.
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: henryd on 18 April 2018, 23:43:14
Thanks to everyone for wishing us well.

The Galaxy has returned.

The local garage are booked up solid until next week so I suppose I am going to have to fix it  :( (and rediscover the sad truth that 50% of the bolts on a VAG TDi are B-starred-bolts >:(

When the pump failed did it shed its timing belt ?
No - engine still running fine with no loss of power

The dash lit up like a Christmas tree and I pulled over to the hard shoulder as quick as I could. There is an auxiliary coolant pump that runs on for a few minutes and I am hoping that it has allowed the engine to cool evenly and avoid permanent damage to head or head gasket :-\

The AA man confirmed my snap diagnosis by disconnecting the little hose to the top of the expansion bottle and getting me to rev the engine. He didn't get the anticipated jet of coolant

Result,genuine pump isn't a fortune from memory,probably cheaper at Ford than VW though :y
101.14 apparently. I thought that was a bit steep.

They don't have them in stock either so I went back to GSF and bought a different brand to the one that failed.

What was the one that  failed,even genuine have been known to shed impeller.

Edit  over a ton is bloody steep
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Andy H on 19 April 2018, 07:06:49
The one that failed was a Vetech which I now realise is GSF own brand which cost 22.

The one I have just bought is an INA (45.90 +vat).

I imagine that if I had a trade account at Vospers I might have got the genuine part for half the list price :-\
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: henryd on 19 April 2018, 08:07:23
The one that failed was a Vetech which I now realise is GSF own brand which cost 22.

The one I have just bought is an INA (45.90 +vat).

I imagine that if I had a trade account at Vospers I might have got the genuine part for half the list price :-\

I'm trade but rarely do better than 10% at Ford, Ina is good  :y
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Shackeng on 19 April 2018, 10:53:06
Get yourself some cards made up Andy. I've found most suppliers, including main dealers, will give trade prices if you blag it with a card. ::) :y
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Andy H on 19 April 2018, 13:00:00
Get yourself some cards made up Andy. I've found most suppliers, including main dealers, will give trade prices if you blag it with a card. ::) :y
I should have done as advised with Screwfix before I built my house extension. The bulk of the materials came from a builder's merchant and we agreed a decent percentage off before I started.

The convenience purchases made on my way home from work at Screwfix mounted up over time
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Andy H on 19 April 2018, 13:09:31
Thanks to everyone for wishing us well.

The Galaxy has returned.

The local garage are booked up solid until next week so I suppose I am going to have to fix it  :( (and rediscover the sad truth that 50% of the bolts on a VAG TDi are B-starred-bolts >:(

When the pump failed did it shed its timing belt ?
No - engine still running fine with no loss of power

The dash lit up like a Christmas tree and I pulled over to the hard shoulder as quick as I could. There is an auxiliary coolant pump that runs on for a few minutes and I am hoping that it has allowed the engine to cool evenly and avoid permanent damage to head or head gasket :-\

The AA man confirmed my snap diagnosis by disconnecting the little hose to the top of the expansion bottle and getting me to rev the engine. He didn't get the anticipated jet of coolant
The old pump is now out but I cannot find anything wrong with it :-\
I have tried putting the impeller in a pan of boiling hot water but it seems to be solidly attached to the shaft.

I know I should have tried to confirm the previous diagnosis but then the engine would have been too hot to work on till later and I wouldn't have had the window of opportunity to do the job (both offspring at nursery all day).:(
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: henryd on 19 April 2018, 14:25:30
Thanks to everyone for wishing us well.

The Galaxy has returned.

The local garage are booked up solid until next week so I suppose I am going to have to fix it  :( (and rediscover the sad truth that 50% of the bolts on a VAG TDi are B-starred-bolts >:(

When the pump failed did it shed its timing belt ?
No - engine still running fine with no loss of power

The dash lit up like a Christmas tree and I pulled over to the hard shoulder as quick as I could. There is an auxiliary coolant pump that runs on for a few minutes and I am hoping that it has allowed the engine to cool evenly and avoid permanent damage to head or head gasket :-\

The AA man confirmed my snap diagnosis by disconnecting the little hose to the top of the expansion bottle and getting me to rev the engine. He didn't get the anticipated jet of coolant
The old pump is now out but I cannot find anything wrong with it :-\
I have tried putting the impeller in a pan of boiling hot water but it seems to be solidly attached to the shaft.

I know I should have tried to confirm the previous diagnosis but then the engine would have been too hot to work on till later and I wouldn't have had the window of opportunity to do the job (both offspring at nursery all day).:(

Thats a bugger,next step is to check that the stat hasn't broken up as they are prone to that as well :-\
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Andy H on 19 April 2018, 21:12:52
The old pump is now out but I cannot find anything wrong with it :-\
I have tried putting the impeller in a pan of boiling hot water but it seems to be solidly attached to the shaft.

I know I should have tried to confirm the previous diagnosis but then the engine would have been too hot to work on till later and I wouldn't have had the window of opportunity to do the job (both offspring at nursery all day).:(

Thats a bugger,next step is to check that the stat hasn't broken up as they are prone to that as well :-\
I have had the thermostat out. It appears to be complete so I gave it a test in a pan of water.

It is marked as 87degC - when I got the water to 90+ degrees the thermostat opened a little but I am not convinced it is opening fully.

I have fitted the new pump and new cam belt kit. I refitted the old stat just so I could get it running but I will buy a new one tomorrow.
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Bigron on 19 April 2018, 21:29:19
Someone clever will confirm - or shoot me down - but I don't think it will open full until much hotter than that. I have always understood that the marked temperature is the "just opening" temperature: if so, yours is fairly near the mark.

Ron.
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Bigron on 19 April 2018, 21:59:20
I've just checked on the HowStuffWorks website and it backs up what i said:-

"Once the temperature of the coolant rises to between 180 and 195 F (82 - 91 C), the thermostat starts to open, allowing fluid to flow through the radiator. By the time the coolant reaches 200 to 218 F (93 - 103 C), the thermostat is open all the way."

Ron.
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Andy H on 19 April 2018, 22:35:45
So 11 or 12deg to go fully open. If the stat starts to open at 87degC then it should be fully open at 98 or 99 degC.

I did try pouring a kettle full of boiling water over the element of the stat but it didn't move very far hence trying again in a pan with a thermometer.
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Bigron on 19 April 2018, 22:52:44
In view of the stated possibly up to 103 degrees C to fully open, might I suggest that you use cooking oil to test your thermostat? It won't boil and if your thermostat is clean, SWMBO won't complain!

Ron.
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Kevin Wood on 20 April 2018, 00:15:39
Most thermostats need to be in a pan of vigourously boiling water to open any more than a little bit, IME. Yours sounds pretty much par for the course.

Coolant won't boil until 115-120 degrees C if it's under pressure and has a decent antifreeze concentration so i'm sure it'd be substantially open before that.

Is the coolant cap OK? Does the system pressurise as it heats up?
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Andy H on 21 April 2018, 18:06:11
Gauge was pointing to 130 when I pulled over (but I don't have much faith in VW instruments telling the unvarnished truth )

Coolant is good. I changed it last year. Pressure cap seems to be good, I don't think any coolant escaped before the AA man loosened the cap.

I have spent the afternoon trying to get the engine hot enough to trigger the electric cooling fans.

With the climate switched on the cooling fans run continuously and the thermostat seems to be functioning fine as I couldn't get the temperature to rise above 87ish.

With climate off the highest coolant temperature that VCDS reported was 97 degrees but I couldn't get the fans to kick in.
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 23 April 2018, 00:17:42
Only thinking out loud, but, if it didn't lose / force out coolant, and didn't boil over, and was still running with no power loss, etc etc etc......

Is there a possibility the temperature sensor was telling porkies (false warning?)

Maybe worth starting it from cold, and comparing the temperatures in the live data to the gauge and the "actual" temperature?

If it were me, from what you've described, I would change the stat, and use the car alone semi locally for a week or so and see how it behaves
 
You've done the pump, so if you do the stat too - there isn't much left, cooling wise, that will cause significant overheating, save for a big blockage or head / gasket trouble (which seems unlikely with how quick it happened, and how quick you caught it).

:y

As for over 2 hours on the hard shoulder of a motorway, with kids in the car, before being recovered, that stinks   >:(
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Andy H on 28 April 2018, 16:34:45
I  have changed the pump and cambelt - didn't find any fault with the pump. It has had a week of local use and hasn't played up but I won't feel confident enough to take the family on a longer journey  until I have been able to work out what happened  :-\


Worried now that it might be the thermoswitch or clogged radiator or even early stage head gasket failure.

Temperature gauge on the dash tracks the reading from VCDS until 90 degrees but lies above 90 (it sat pointing at 90 even though VCDS read 97)
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Varche on 28 April 2018, 18:27:28
Gosh. What a pain. I dislike faults that could be something or nothing. Have you got a you got a younger  family member you could send on a longer journey?  Working on the principle that a breakdown would be an adventure for them rather than a pain for us older folk.
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Andy H on 29 April 2018, 20:57:22
Gosh. What a pain. I dislike faults that could be something or nothing. Have you got a you got a younger  family member you could send on a longer journey?  Working on the principle that a breakdown would be an adventure for them rather than a pain for us older folk.
The 28 year old and the 30 year old live  300 miles away and the 2 year old and the 3 year old are a bit too young.....
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: dave the builder on 29 April 2018, 21:14:09
did you check live data (voltage and temp) of the ecu coolant temperature sensor
plus check earth straps etc ?
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Andy H on 29 April 2018, 23:14:39
did you check live data (voltage and temp) of the ecu coolant temperature sensor
plus check earth straps etc ?
I have checked live data and it gave plausible readings (VCDS doesn't show raw voltage inputs though)

Apparently there is a common earth point somewhere under the battery tray that is a common source of trouble - looks like I will be spending another day pulling the thing apart to try and find it  ::) **sigh**
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Andy H on 08 September 2018, 21:13:11
Apologies for stirring up a dusty thread.......

Having changed the water pump and fitting a new cambelt kit the bloody thing has run without overheating for several thousand miles (and a few 700 mile round trips) until yesterday.

After a 5 mile trip the gauge went up to 130 degrees just 200 yards from home. I pulled over and tried not to swear at it (kids in the back) and watched the gauge drop straight back to 90 degrees (engine idling) so drove it home and parked it.

4 or 5 hours later I unscrewed the cap on the coolant bottle and it burped and spewed coolant over the battery (another class piece of VW design....).

I have resigned myself to the conclusion that exhaust gases are forcing their way into the cooling system and causing an 'air lock'. I really do not understand why the problem is intermittent though :-\

What are the odds that I can fix it by fitting a new head gasket ?
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: STEMO on 08 September 2018, 21:17:17
Apologies for stirring up a dusty thread.......

Having changed the water pump and fitting a new cambelt kit the bloody thing has run without overheating for several thousand miles (and a few 700 mile round trips) until yesterday.

After a 5 mile trip the gauge went up to 130 degrees just 200 yards from home. I pulled over and tried not to swear at it (kids in the back) and watched the gauge drop straight back to 90 degrees (engine idling) so drove it home and parked it.

4 or 5 hours later I unscrewed the cap on the coolant bottle and it burped and spewed coolant over the battery (another class piece of VW design....).

I have resigned myself to the conclusion that exhaust gases are forcing their way into the cooling system and causing an 'air lock'. I really do not understand why the problem is intermittent though :-\

What are the odds that I can fix it by fitting a new head gasket ?
I wouldn't be fitting a new head gasket hoping that it fixes the problem, you need a proper diagnosis. Else you'll spend a fortune, and a lot of time, fixing things that might not cure it.
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Andy H on 08 September 2018, 21:40:29
Apologies for stirring up a dusty thread.......

Having changed the water pump and fitting a new cambelt kit the bloody thing has run without overheating for several thousand miles (and a few 700 mile round trips) until yesterday.

After a 5 mile trip the gauge went up to 130 degrees just 200 yards from home. I pulled over and tried not to swear at it (kids in the back) and watched the gauge drop straight back to 90 degrees (engine idling) so drove it home and parked it.

4 or 5 hours later I unscrewed the cap on the coolant bottle and it burped and spewed coolant over the battery (another class piece of VW design....).

I have resigned myself to the conclusion that exhaust gases are forcing their way into the cooling system and causing an 'air lock'. I really do not understand why the problem is intermittent though :-\

What are the odds that I can fix it by fitting a new head gasket ?
I wouldn't be fitting a new head gasket hoping that it fixes the problem, you need a proper diagnosis. Else you'll spend a fortune, and a lot of time, fixing things that might not cure it.
I totally agree - I am just hoping that someone has some experience of what goes wrong with these engines (1.9 PD tdi Volkswagen code "AUY")
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: henryd on 09 September 2018, 00:06:32
Apologies for stirring up a dusty thread.......

Having changed the water pump and fitting a new cambelt kit the bloody thing has run without overheating for several thousand miles (and a few 700 mile round trips) until yesterday.

After a 5 mile trip the gauge went up to 130 degrees just 200 yards from home. I pulled over and tried not to swear at it (kids in the back) and watched the gauge drop straight back to 90 degrees (engine idling) so drove it home and parked it.

4 or 5 hours later I unscrewed the cap on the coolant bottle and it burped and spewed coolant over the battery (another class piece of VW design....).

I have resigned myself to the conclusion that exhaust gases are forcing their way into the cooling system and causing an 'air lock'. I really do not understand why the problem is intermittent though :-\

What are the odds that I can fix it by fitting a new head gasket ?
I wouldn't be fitting a new head gasket hoping that it fixes the problem, you need a proper diagnosis. Else you'll spend a fortune, and a lot of time, fixing things that might not cure it.
I totally agree - I am just hoping that someone has some experience of what goes wrong with these engines (1.9 PD tdi Volkswagen code "AUY")

Friend of mine is having the same issue with his Galaxy,he's done stat and pressure cap and like yours it'll do hundreds of miles (towing tin tent mostly) and then he'll do a Shortish  trip solo and it'll play up,he's done chemical test on coolant for exhaust gases but that was ok.next step is head off but if gasket is sound then pressure test of head will follow
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Andy H on 09 September 2018, 23:02:44
Friend of mine is having the same issue with his Galaxy,he's done stat and pressure cap and like yours it'll do hundreds of miles (towing tin tent mostly) and then he'll do a Shortish  trip solo and it'll play up,he's done chemical test on coolant for exhaust gases but that was ok.next step is head off but if gasket is sound then pressure test of head will follow

I haven't changed the stat or pressure cap as I tested the stat and that appears to be good and there is generally a big release of pressure when I unscrew the pressure cap.

What I did do today was discover a silly little plastic plug with a hole in it which lives in the pipe which connects to the top of the expansion bottle. After much prodding and poking I managed to extract it from it's hiding place and find that the hole was blocked. Cleaned it, put it back together, started the engine and the coolant (and gas) started flowing. After much burping and farting I had to add another litre of coolant and the interior heater started working :y

Marvelling at another piece of design failure from VW >:( and puzzling over whether the crap in the tiny orifice was
- the original cause of the overheating
- where the crap came from
- whether it came from a failing head gasket
- whether the overheating has caused any permanent damage

Either way I don't have the confidence to take the family on any extended journeys in it in the near future so we went out looking for a replacement / back up mummy bus  ::)
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 10 September 2018, 16:33:58
Apparently Jimbob is selling a Zafira ;D
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: TheBoy on 10 September 2018, 17:19:51
Apparently Jimbob is selling a Zafira ;D
"One careful owner" ;D
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Kevin Wood on 10 September 2018, 17:43:25
Apparently Jimbob is selling a Zafira ;D
"One careful non-smokingflatulent owner" ;D
Honest, guv. :y
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Andy H on 10 September 2018, 17:51:06
Apparently Jimbob is selling a Zafira ;D
"One careful owner" ;D
;D

Going on the feedback I have seen from Zafira owners (including TB) a Zafira hasn't made it on to my short list ::)

Every one I know who has one seems to have inherited it from an aging relative.....
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: TheBoy on 10 September 2018, 17:54:14
Apparently Jimbob is selling a Zafira ;D
"One careful owner" ;D
;D

Going on the feedback I have seen from Zafira owners (including TB) a Zafira hasn't made it on to my short list ::)

Every one I know who has one seems to have inherited it from an aging relative.....
They are not a car you could ever love.  But for a small car, surprisingly practical, and annoyingly reliable
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Jimbob on 10 September 2018, 18:51:44
Apparently Jimbob is selling a Zafira ;D

And a C3 Picasso as it happens!
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 10 September 2018, 20:00:18
Apparently Jimbob is selling a Zafira ;D

And a C3 Picasso as it happens!
It gets worse :o
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Rods2 on 10 September 2018, 21:57:23
The fact that releasing the coolant header cap after the engine has cooled down releases an airlock suggests you do not have any leaks in the cooling system and the head gasket is fine as this would release the pressure from the system.
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Andy H on 10 September 2018, 23:20:01
The fact that releasing the coolant header cap after the engine has cooled down releases an airlock suggests you do not have any leaks in the cooling system and the head gasket is fine as this would release the pressure from the system.
I would agree that when a head gasket has failed sufficiently to allow coolant into the cylinders overnight then you would expect the pressure to be released.

The issue I have is that something seems to be pressurising the system over and above the thermal expansion of the coolant. A pressure of hundreds of psi in the combustion chamber trumps 15 psi in the expansion tank hence it is possible that early stage head gasket failure could allow small quantities of hot gas to be forced one way while prevent coolant flowing back the other way.

Also we don't seem to be losing coolant (yet)...
Title: Re: waiting for AA recovery
Post by: Andy H on 12 September 2018, 23:15:31
The fact that releasing the coolant header cap after the engine has cooled down releases an airlock suggests you do not have any leaks in the cooling system and the head gasket is fine as this would release the pressure from the system.
I would agree that when a head gasket has failed sufficiently to allow coolant into the cylinders overnight then you would expect the pressure to be released.

The issue I have is that something seems to be pressurising the system over and above the thermal expansion of the coolant. A pressure of hundreds of psi in the combustion chamber trumps 15 psi in the expansion tank hence it is possible that early stage head gasket failure could allow small quantities of hot gas to be forced one way while prevent coolant flowing back the other way.

Also we don't seem to be losing coolant (yet)...
I knew I would regret typing that last line. ::)

Got home from work to discover that it lost coolant while SWMBO was driving it. Coolant sprayed all over the top of the  expansion bottle.

Looks like I get to drive the MV6  :) and she can borrow the Galaxy / Mondeo Van I bought yesterday until a full post mortem on her Galashambra.