Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: tunnie on 01 January 2019, 15:49:18

Title: Suspension Options
Post by: tunnie on 01 January 2019, 15:49:18
Following on from my tyre thread, which means 4 new tyres in a couple of months. Makes me think about suspension for the 3.2, recently had use of a 2014 E-Class AMG trim (but Diesel engine) - I did like the way it handled, had this for a month. Made me realise how boat like the 3.2 is now.

Sooo current setup is:

16 year old Elite front shocks and springs on the front.
Rear has Boge springs which still look in good shape, with standard GM shocks on the back. (non-SL)

I'm going to get SOS Automotive do it all, at this stage I know only what I want to do with the wishbones.

I bought a set of poly's for the front cheap when no one wanted them, so I could get them fitted to the lemforder wishbones. (new ball joints as well?)

But I'm not too sure on shocks/springs, the front end really is a bit boat like. I want to stiffen it up a bit, but not a crazy amount.

If I could, I'd go down to the Vauxhall Dealer and buy MV6 suspension, as this would be best for me.

Option 1)
 
Sachs/Boge shocks front rear and new Boge springs up front.

Option 2)

Eibach springs front and rear & B4 shocks front/rear?

Wondering if 2) would be too stiff for my liking.  :-\
Title: Re: Suspension Options
Post by: tunnie on 01 January 2019, 16:12:04
Looks good value?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4x-BILSTEIN-b4-Shock-Absorber-Front-Rear-Vauxhall-Omega-B-Saloon/232806932434?epid=1944217924&hash=item36345fdfd2:g:QZ0AAOSwMlRajrNM:rk:6:pf:0 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4x-BILSTEIN-b4-Shock-Absorber-Front-Rear-Vauxhall-Omega-B-Saloon/232806932434?epid=1944217924&hash=item36345fdfd2:g:QZ0AAOSwMlRajrNM:rk:6:pf:0)

How do Eibach compare to say Boge/KYB, how much stiffer?

Above link plus 4 new springs and some Polys would make a significant different, not as much as I thought either.
Title: Re: Suspension Options
Post by: tunnie on 01 January 2019, 16:19:15
I also forgot about the "discussions" of B4's top mount kits, at least for the rear. Some eBay searching suggests there is nothing in it for Sachs to B4's in terms of price.
Title: Re: Suspension Options
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 01 January 2019, 16:28:50
You need to ditch the SL springs at the back otherwise everything else is a waste...

Kilen HD springs with Sachs shocks would be my suggestion. Eibachs will drop the ride height 30 mm which may be a bit much.
Title: Re: Suspension Options
Post by: tunnie on 01 January 2019, 16:59:03
Rear springs are standard, nothing SL is fitted.

Will look at Kilen.
Title: Re: Suspension Options
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 01 January 2019, 20:32:25
Rear springs are standard, nothing SL is fitted.

Will look at Kilen.
With polys front and rear along with ATP kit, my Desmond estate drove like a new car ;)
Title: Re: Suspension Options
Post by: VXL V6 on 01 January 2019, 21:48:51
If only MV6 LSC springs were still available  :'(

One thing that I do wonder is that front spring part numbers between left and right vary, I assume this is because LHD vehicles need to a slightly higher spring on the drivers side due to weight distribution in the engine bay, therefore I assume that we are best to buy two springs with the same part number (ie two l/h or two r/h) springs for a RHD car were the weight distribution is more even?
Title: Re: Suspension Options
Post by: Migv6 on 02 January 2019, 00:06:34
I would recommend plod springs & dampers for the front, but they are probably only marginally easier to find than MV6 versions.
Might be worth trying these people to see if they still have Bilsteins at this price ?
https://www.europerformance.co.uk/pages/products/product_info.mhtml?product=262866;car=vauxhallomega
Title: Re: Suspension Options
Post by: tunnie on 02 January 2019, 01:26:42
Bit pricey compared to eBay link above? £160 for full set.

Iíd go MV6 if I could....

What springs would you put with B4ís?
Title: Re: Suspension Options
Post by: amba on 02 January 2019, 08:45:21
Looking at the price of rear springs ,Kilen seem to be almost double the price of Sachs.?


Are they that much better or are the Sachs just std duty and the Kilen ..60037..heavy duty
Title: Re: Suspension Options
Post by: tunnie on 02 January 2019, 09:37:25
Iíve had Boge fitted to 3.2 since 2012, still in good condition. Canít see how Kilen could be worth double.

Also discovered a pair of brand new rear springs in garage, so means just need new front springs.

Would standard Sachs//Boge go well with B4 shocks?
Title: Re: Suspension Options
Post by: amba on 02 January 2019, 10:39:36
Have Bilsteins B4 and Lemforder springs on the front of mine ,with Sachs rear shocks and Boge Springs fitted for about the last 18 months.

Handles really nicely and gives a comfy stable ride.Have noticed though with full car and boot rear end tends to sit quite low ,hence why I was curious about HD rear springs as that is what Kilen 60037 claim to be .
Title: Re: Suspension Options
Post by: tunnie on 02 January 2019, 11:04:02
Have Bilsteins B4 and Lemforder springs on the front of mine ,with Sachs rear shocks and Boge Springs fitted for about the last 18 months.

Handles really nicely and gives a comfy stable ride.Have noticed though with full car and boot rear end tends to sit quite low ,hence why I was curious about HD rear springs as that is what Kilen 60037 claim to be .

Interesting feedback, thanks!

Out of interest, why B4 on the front and Sachs for the rear?
Title: Re: Suspension Options
Post by: amba on 02 January 2019, 12:13:09
Bought B4,s for both front and back but found the back far too harsh and gave rear end almost a kangaroo effect.

Only had them fitted for around 200miles and took them off and replaced them with Sachs.Found them so much better and after getting the VX top fitting kit from Nitro they have been on ever since.B,4s are collecting dust in their boxes in the shed and wouldn't fit them again.

Got a good deal from Jason at AGP for the fronts so hence why the combination.

Have been considering having a change of rear springs though to a more HD ,hence why I was curious about the merits of Kilen 60037,s against std or Boge/Sachs as neither of them are listed as HD but Kilens are 
Title: Re: Suspension Options
Post by: tunnie on 02 January 2019, 12:35:52
Thanks again  :y

Springs also sourced from AGP? Thinking more Sachs all around now.
Title: Re: Suspension Options
Post by: Shackeng on 02 January 2019, 13:07:16
Iíve had Boge fitted to 3.2 since 2012, still in good condition. Canít see how Kilen could be worth double.

Also discovered a pair of brand new rear springs in garage, so means just need new front springs.

Would standard Sachs//Boge go well with B4 shocks?

That rang a bell, and when I checked my records, I fitted a pair of these to the rear of the TD Estate. My note here:
"119,500 Feb 10th 2014 Replace rear springs with BOGE 25-964-0. Not happy with the shape of these compared to OE. Would choose alternative next time." :y
Title: Re: Suspension Options
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 02 January 2019, 13:22:09
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2x-Vauxhall-Omega-MK2-B-3-0-Saloon-Genuine-Kilen-Front-Suspension-Coil-Springs-/291763130811

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2x-Sachs-Shock-Absorber-Vauxhall-Omega-B-Saloon-Rear-New-/312286016235

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VAUXHALL-OMEGA-B-3-2-2x-Shock-Absorbers-Pair-Front-01-to-03-Y32SE-Damper-Boge-/332357179058

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2x-SACHS-802-034-FRONT-SHOCK-ABSORBER-TOP-MOUNT-CUSHION-SET-/273542722429

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SUSPENSION-CONTROL-ARMS-WISHBONE-KIT-LOWER-FRONT-OPEL-VAUXHALL-OMEGA-B-/381141643466

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wheel-Suspension-Rod-Strut-OP-TC-10137-Fits-VAUXHALL-OMEGA-Rear-L-R-/322412084775 x2

The above is all you need... Use your unused poly bushes for the wishbones and your unused rear springs. Job done.  :y

You can argue the toss over suppliers and the best brands, but Sachs Shocks are what it left the factory with. Kilen springs because for myself they are tried and tested, as are the supplier, likewise the ATP kit... Does exactly what it says on the tin for the best price. My tuppence worth...
Title: Re: Suspension Options
Post by: tunnie on 02 January 2019, 14:53:25
Thanks.  :y

Not sure I need TREís or drop links, both appear fine. I was considering fitting polys to current wishbones, and just doing shocks all around, with springs.
Title: Re: Suspension Options
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 02 January 2019, 16:27:55
Thanks.  :y

Not sure I need TREís or drop links, both appear fine. I was considering fitting polys to current wishbones, and just doing shocks all around, with springs.
If you're going to bother doing any of it and pay for the alignment, you would be well advised to do the lot in one hit. ;)
Title: Re: Suspension Options
Post by: TheBoy on 02 January 2019, 18:44:55
Don't fit pattern TREs, they are all universally shite.  Whilst GM ones are £25 a pop, there are worth the extra.

Not sure you'd notice the different between B4 shocks v Sachs and similar.  Remember, B4 is Bilstein's OE replacement, not a sports shock.  I use Bilstein because they seem to last a bit longer than Sachs or GM, yet similar price.  *ANY* shock will feel stiffer that what you have, as yours will be getting tired.

Unless you drive spirited, and I've never known you to, no need for lowered, stiffer springs.  You'll just ruin its mile cruncher ride. And clearly you didn't drive that C Class spirited, else you would be pointing out how crap it really is.  TBE is on standard springs (can't remember brand, but one of the ZF ones), and for a reason.

Those tyres have loads on.  The only issue is the inner edge wear.  So I doubt you'll be putting new tyres on this Spring.


Given that you don't touch your car for years, I'd also recommend you give that ATP shite a very wide berth.
Title: Re: Suspension Options
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 02 January 2019, 19:18:42
It's all a moot point anyway... With the house extension going on, there won't be the time to get done, and a new car will probably be acquired  ::)
Title: Re: Suspension Options
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 02 January 2019, 19:22:32
That said, not everyone earns £40k a year and can afford to maintain their Omega regardless of cost...

Nor do they drive their car to breaking point every time it leaves the drive.

On that basis I still maintain that £69 for both wishbones, track rods and droplinks are fantastic value for money.

I will say no more because it is starting to get irksome.
Title: Re: Suspension Options
Post by: Nick W on 02 January 2019, 19:34:35
That said, not everyone earns £40k a year and can afford to maintain their Omega regardless of cost...

Nor do they drive their car to breaking point every time it leaves the drive.

On that basis I still maintain that £69 for both wishbones, track rods and droplinks are fantastic value for money.



Yes to all of that.


Remember that wishbones/lower arms/TCAs/whatever stupid name the manufacturer came up with, are consumable items on any strut suspended car. Poly bushes are always a good idea whenever the design allows for them.


The ATP coil springs were a big improvement over my saggy 180k originals, plus I bought all four for barely more than one rear(estate rears are a lot more expensive than saloons) from any of the UK suppliers who actually had them in stock. My self-levelling was good(new GM shocks about 20k miles before), so I fitted stock rate springs which improved ride, handling and reduced the amount the compressor had to work to maintain ride height.


Replacing the top mounts,bearings and bump stops whilst the struts are apart is recommended.
Title: Re: Suspension Options
Post by: aaronjb on 02 January 2019, 21:20:09
Bag it and get the chassis rails touching ground.


Well.. it's an option, right?  ;D
Title: Re: Suspension Options
Post by: Nick W on 02 January 2019, 22:10:30
Bag it and get the chassis rails touching ground.


Well.. it's an option, right?  ;D


we had an OOF member local to here who had done just that, and I saw the car a couple of months ago. Looked good, although it's not something I'd do.
Title: Re: Suspension Options
Post by: Migv6 on 02 January 2019, 22:43:34
Paul K from Dartford iirc ? White estate ?
Title: Re: Suspension Options
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 02 January 2019, 23:27:08
Paul K from Dartford iirc ? White estate ?
The chap who bought it from Paul ;)
Title: Re: Suspension Options
Post by: tunnie on 03 January 2019, 01:21:38
Don't fit pattern TREs, they are all universally shite.  Whilst GM ones are £25 a pop, there are worth the extra.

Agreed, I'm not fitting ATP. I already have Lemforder wishbones and TRE's with Merle HD drop links, only change here would be to poly the front wishbone bush and perhaps refresh ball joint?

Quote
Not sure you'd notice the different between B4 shocks v Sachs and similar.  Remember, B4 is Bilstein's OE replacement, not a sports shock.  I use Bilstein because they seem to last a bit longer than Sachs or GM, yet similar price.  *ANY* shock will feel stiffer that what you have, as yours will be getting tired.

Can source full set of front and rear B4's for £175 delivered, hence strongly considering those.

Quote
Unless you drive spirited, and I've never known you to, no need for lowered, stiffer springs.  You'll just ruin its mile cruncher ride. And clearly you didn't drive that C Class spirited, else you would be pointing out how crap it really is.  TBE is on standard springs (can't remember brand, but one of the ZF ones), and for a reason.

C Class? Had a 2014 E Class for a month, I'll agree on one thing, Mercedes cannot design seats. They are bloody awful, after 60 min journey I'm glad to get out. Not impressed with fuel use either, could barley get 45mpg out of it. (2.1 diesel)

Quote
Those tyres have loads on.  The only issue is the inner edge wear.  So I doubt you'll be putting new tyres on this Spring.

I thought they would be an MOT fail, shall see in a few months.

Quote
Given that you don't touch your car for years, I'd also recommend you give that ATP shite a very wide berth.

Given that lemforder setup has been good for 6 years, yup.  :y

All work will be done by Serek, so just need to get all the bits.
Title: Re: Suspension Options
Post by: aaronjb on 03 January 2019, 08:54:32
we had an OOF member local to here who had done just that, and I saw the car a couple of months ago. Looked good, although it's not something I'd do.

There's an old Merc 180E around here (W201, the stuff of Al's dreams) that is bagged ("Bagged Benz" club, I believe) and I agree, cars like that can look very nice indeed.

I briefly considered it for the Cobra so it could get over speed humps, and now someone in the club has done just that to their AK .. surprised the purists haven't lynched him :D

Anyway, apologies for the drift. Back to our regular Tunnie bashing? I mean.. helping.

BTW, those tyres should pass an MOT any day of the week and not even need a tester who walks with a white stick - tread needs to be on the central 2/3rds (or was it 3/4s) and so that wear is well outside of "bothering" region. Keep 'em on until the cords are showing through...
Title: Re: Suspension Options
Post by: TheBoy on 03 January 2019, 17:51:05
Agreed, I'm not fitting ATP. I already have Lemforder wishbones and TRE's with Merle HD drop links, only change here would be to poly the front wishbone bush and perhaps refresh ball joint?
Check the balljoints, and only replace if *any* play. Also check rearward bushes, and press new ones in if any signs of tearing.

TBH, if the balljoints are shot on non GM wishbones, I'd consider new, quality wishbones.

Once you've worn those tyres some more :D
Title: Re: Suspension Options
Post by: tunnie on 04 January 2019, 21:36:41
I read that front springs are weighted? Different left to right.

Does that mean if buying from say Germany, a pair should be used opposite to suggested. (As they are LHD)?
Title: Re: Suspension Options
Post by: VXL V6 on 04 January 2019, 22:29:58
It's because of the weight distribution under the bonnet on a LHD plus Driver. Given that the genuine GM springs aren't sided (the standard fronts and MV6 LSC aren't when you could buy replacements from VX) I think buying two of the  LHD Passenger side springs would be the most sensible option... I await others thoughts on this.....
Title: Re: Suspension Options
Post by: LC0112G on 04 January 2019, 23:01:28
EPC shows 3 types of spring for the various options, all with different part numbers, which basically boil down to ...

1) LHD Right hand side
2) LHD Left hand side
3) RHD Same both sides

So chances are anything that is spec-ed for a LHD car won't be the 'correct' UK spec part. It's anyones guess what the difference is though. AIUI the LHD springs are different lengths either side, whilst the UK spec RHD springs are the same length both sides.
Title: Re: Suspension Options
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 04 January 2019, 23:20:25
Desmond front springs afaik aren't sided, so should serve as a guide for the correct length. V6 springs should be a similar length albeit at a different load weight... 1040kg vs 940 kg for the Desmond.

Thinking it through, the diesels have the higher rated springs for the extra weight, and being in line, won't have the lhd weight penalty on the left hookers, so Dti front springs will probably be a close match for the V6.

Also front springs are the same saloon or estate, the rears are different.
Title: Re: Suspension Options
Post by: amba on 05 January 2019, 09:03:16
When I got my Front springs from AGP,one was slightly longer than the other by around 10mm from memory.


As NickW did the work ,he would probably be the best person to advise on why side went where,but car does handle very well
Title: Re: Suspension Options
Post by: TheBoy on 05 January 2019, 10:00:46
The fact that EPC lists different - who knows why, camber/crown, weight distribution, or the fact it was designed for LHD - would make me wary of sourcing from LHD countries.


Given the low cost, I'd match the brand you have for the rears, then job jobbed. Economically.
Title: Re: Suspension Options
Post by: tunnie on 05 January 2019, 12:51:16
The fact that EPC lists different - who knows why, camber/crown, weight distribution, or the fact it was designed for LHD - would make me wary of sourcing from LHD countries.


Given the low cost, I'd match the brand you have for the rears, then job jobbed. Economically.

Agreed. But struggling to source Sachs fronts, out of stock overwhere.  :-[

Seen on bay from Lithuania, hence question.
Title: Re: Suspension Options
Post by: TheBoy on 06 January 2019, 18:45:02
You're in no hurry, so wait til the right ones come up
Title: Re: Suspension Options
Post by: tunnie on 09 January 2019, 11:06:41
Managed to source front pair from ECP, reasonable price, £88 for pair.

Rears are available easily, but fronts harder. Still cheaper than any price I found so far.