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Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: pscocoa on 02 June 2019, 10:20:10

Title: Phaeton on the way out?
Post by: pscocoa on 02 June 2019, 10:20:10
After 10 years I think it is time to retire the Phaeton. It needs a new steering rack and feed pipes and ac condenser. The ac condenser is not a problem but there is no equivalent steering rack replacement and the VW part is 2k and the feeder pipe 300+. I can get a refurbed steering rack for 300  but nobody round here wants to fit it so I will park up the phaeton until I can find a solution. no point doing condenser on its own as the feeder pipe needs bumper off and front end exposed.

Now looking at other cars and given my size - the best option seems to be the Volvo S90 and V90 Inscription (2018) but these still leave me with RFL of 465 like the Phaeton. Going to see a Mercedes E220d AMG Estate later.

Even in perfect nick the Phaeton is only worth about 4-5k. Even if repairs done I am still on original exhaust and batteries and who knows what is around the corner. I have in the past been able to get discs and pads as non VW but the bigger items have no VW equivalent obviously due to low numbers of Phaetons sold. (some parts are shared with Touareg/Bentley/A8).

Reluctant to scrap it as it is otherwise perfect with full VW service history. Waiting to get video of issue and to hear if any goodwill from VW.

I test drove an S90 D5 Inscription yesterday and very impressed. Obviously not the best looker.
Title: Re: Phaeton on the way out?
Post by: jimmy944 on 02 June 2019, 10:36:56
Why an E-class rather than an S-class?

Just asking as the S seems a closer match to a Phaeton.
Title: Re: Phaeton on the way out?
Post by: Jimbob on 02 June 2019, 10:57:01
Im happy with my E250 AMG Estate, but no idea how it will compare for you.
Title: Re: Phaeton on the way out?
Post by: STEMO on 02 June 2019, 10:57:07
Why an E-class rather than an S-class?

Just asking as the S seems a closer match to a Phaeton.
I agree. Posh bastid like Phil definitely should go for an S class.  :)
Title: Re: Phaeton on the way out?
Post by: pscocoa on 02 June 2019, 10:58:35
I am retiring this year and should really go for something more economical and I did not want to spend more than a certain amount but setting myself a target to try and buy something less than 6 months to a year old. Will enquire about S class repair bills for the longer term.
Title: Re: Phaeton on the way out?
Post by: pscocoa on 02 June 2019, 11:01:45
Why an E-class rather than an S-class?

Just asking as the S seems a closer match to a Phaeton.
I agree. Posh bastid like Phil definitely should go for an S class.  :)

Thanks Steve for putting me up there. I may keep the Phaeton and trade in the Astra and use the Phaeton for the short journey to the station. This will be similar to having an electric car for the station but instead of topping up the battery I will be putting power steering oil in everyday to keep mobile!!
Title: Re: Phaeton on the way out?
Post by: dave the builder on 02 June 2019, 11:04:51
If your happy with the Phaeton (other than the steering issue and ac) why are you not trying to find someone to do the job   ???
plenty of independent garages out there ,worth doing even if you have to take it 50 miles or so  :-\
parking cars up and buying another until you get round to fixing it rarely ends well
I don't know what model,age etc you have  :-\
but there are used power steering racks and pipework selling on ebay by vw breakers etc

then you could sell it ,if you have decided it must go

Title: Re: Phaeton on the way out?
Post by: ronnyd on 02 June 2019, 12:49:16
I am retiring this year and should really go for something more economical and I did not want to spend more than a certain amount but setting myself a target to try and buy something less than 6 months to a year old. Will enquire about S class repair bills for the longer term.
Go on! Blow ya tax free lump sum on fixing the oversized Passat. ;) You know you want too. ;D
Title: Re: Phaeton on the way out?
Post by: jimmy944 on 02 June 2019, 13:34:02
You could probably pay to have it transported to that nice Mr Derek, I've heard he likes a challenge  ;)
Title: Re: Phaeton on the way out?
Post by: STEMO on 02 June 2019, 14:52:41
You could probably pay to have it transported to that nice Mr Derek, I've heard he likes a challenge  ;)
Any relation to Serek?
Title: Re: Phaeton on the way out?
Post by: TheBoy on 02 June 2019, 15:26:31
I think any exec car is expensive to fix when it gets a few years/miles on it. Irrespective of whether its S-Class, XJ, 7 Series and so on.  The parts are often unique to that model.  Drop to a smaller size, such as E-Class, XF, 5-Series and parts and knowledge are more readily available.


Personally, I'd find an indie prepared to source/fix refurb rack, and keep the V-Dub. Its a nice, reasonably unique car, but with near zero trade in value, and its near immaculate. Its comfortable and refined, and reasonably well put together.

Unless you're "doing a tunnie", and look for excuses because you fancy a change...   ...in which case, treat yourself :y
Title: Re: Phaeton on the way out?
Post by: pscocoa on 02 June 2019, 16:00:34
Thanks all. Just back from Merc dealer and I am not comfortable in the E class. Sports seats too narrow. They then put me in an S Class at 94k but the range starts at 73k. This was like the Phaeton size and spec so very comfortable. But not going to pay this kind of money.

I am trying to find an independent and waiting for video from VW to send on to a local garage. Problem is the distance I can travel sensibly with the power steering leak. Another local garage will only do this job if they use VW parts. I even spoke to a power steering company in Weybridge who said they have seen too may poorly prepared refurbs that they have stopped the hydraulic side of their business. He recommended me to a place in Bristol but even they say to have the rack removed by a VW specialist.

I am still on the repair case but even the dealer is nervy of attempting it given the other issues that might be uncovered on a vehicle of this age.
Title: Re: Phaeton on the way out?
Post by: pscocoa on 02 June 2019, 16:07:18
I am retiring this year and should really go for something more economical and I did not want to spend more than a certain amount but setting myself a target to try and buy something less than 6 months to a year old. Will enquire about S class repair bills for the longer term.
Go on! Blow ya tax free lump sum on fixing the oversized Passat. ;) You know you want too. ;D

I may bite the bullet and do it as the car looks like new (if I can get a reasonable deal from VW if that is indeed the last resort). Something tells me though this could be just opening myself up to another issue in a few weeks or few months time.
Title: Re: Phaeton on the way out?
Post by: pscocoa on 02 June 2019, 16:09:20
I think any exec car is expensive to fix when it gets a few years/miles on it. Irrespective of whether its S-Class, XJ, 7 Series and so on.  The parts are often unique to that model.  Drop to a smaller size, such as E-Class, XF, 5-Series and parts and knowledge are more readily available.


Personally, I'd find an indie prepared to source/fix refurb rack, and keep the V-Dub. Its a nice, reasonably unique car, but with near zero trade in value, and its near immaculate. Its comfortable and refined, and reasonably well put together.

Unless you're "doing a tunnie", and look for excuses because you fancy a change...   ...in which case, treat yourself :y

No not doing a Tunnie -  I was perfectly happy with it until this week. I agree with your points on this entirely.
Title: Re: Phaeton on the way out?
Post by: henryd on 02 June 2019, 18:36:44
EBay number  123758631778

Second hand but no money if You wanted to try it :y

I would be fixing it up as they are a nice vehicle which you will Struggle to replace
Title: Re: Phaeton on the way out?
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 03 June 2019, 22:11:44
Previous model S Class (W221) is readily available for sensible money :y
Title: Re: Phaeton on the way out?
Post by: Diamond Black Geezer on 04 June 2019, 08:33:40
I always liked the Phaeton and thought it a little left-field for VW, as they already had Audi (A8) to do the job in this sector, but applauded them for trying. Certainly I'd own one, however one of the major, major selling points for Omega ownership for me is repair costs, which clearly in the case of the Phaeton, is causing the OP some headache.

Mind, definitely a future classic, the Phaeton. Never sold many, and there'll never be another. :y
Title: Re: Phaeton on the way out?
Post by: aaronjb on 04 June 2019, 08:45:31
Pop to China and you can still buy a brand-new Phaeton, it's just called something else: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Phideon

Pretty sure that might just be the results of someone in Germany trying to tell someone in China how to pronounce Phaeton, though ;D ;D
Title: Re: Phaeton on the way out?
Post by: Diamond Black Geezer on 04 June 2019, 13:51:59
Did not know that!  :y I'm actually a fan of longer-lived vehicle production runs, Brazil, China, Africa tend to be good examples of these.

If we did more things like that (Mini, Beetle, 911 etc) you can spend your time making incremental changes, improvements as and when they are technologically available/viable etc... As we do it now with 6 yr life cycles, every time a new model is launched there's teams of people 'reinventing the wheel' as a mate of mine said the other day when talking about car design and reliability. Think of how many annoyances/quirks or down right stupid ideas we've all come across working on cars and you find yourself saying "on the old one you just unplugged that and you could get to it, now you've got to remove the blah blah, take this bracket off, then get to it.. "

I'm not saying its as black and white as "all old cars are better, all new cars are rubbish" but its very interesting to see one model evolves when its blessed with a long production run.

Might see about shipping over one of these Made in China Posideons   :y :D
Title: Re: Phaeton on the way out?
Post by: Diamond Black Geezer on 04 June 2019, 13:53:19
Pop to China and you can still buy a brand-new Phaeton, it's just called something else: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Phideon

Pretty sure that might just be the results of someone in Germany trying to tell someone in China how to pronounce Phaeton, though ;D ;D

You mean like when 'Rover' changed to 'Roewe'?! That still makes me laugh!

Thamthon the thavage thtrwangler
Title: Re: Phaeton on the way out?
Post by: jimmy944 on 04 June 2019, 13:59:46
Pop to China and you can still buy a brand-new Phaeton, it's just called something else: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Phideon

Hmm, a phaeton with a 2.0T - presumably an aid to the driver achieving zen-like patience ;)
Title: Re: Phaeton on the way out?
Post by: pscocoa on 08 June 2019, 23:30:56
A glimmer of hope for the Phaeton - an independent has started work on it...steering rack is now out and was in fact a Bentley rack. It will be sent for rebuild next week. Took 6 hours to get it out.
Title: Re: Phaeton on the way out?
Post by: pscocoa on 27 June 2019, 13:34:15
After a couple of weeks away on business just collected the Phaeton so now back on road - however - nothing but bad luck with it. Indie sent steering rack away for refurb but due to corrosion was beyond remanufacture. Decided on a VW refurbed rack and hopefully with them they will not look too closely at the exchanged rack. This may take several weeks before we hear on value. Other pipes connected to rack corroded and replaced also. Aircon condenser replaced but sods law once re-gassed there were leaks from the valves where you connect up to do the  re-gas. This was sorted but system will not take a full charge and throughput only coolish so definitely not working properly despite no leaks. Seems the system has had no refrigerant in for a long time and stuff has seized up so thought is with the valve buried behind dashboard which is something of a no go area in this car. Can only get 180g of 600g in so decision is to run it to see if now gassed it may sort out whatever restriction is there. Hopefully it is not a problem with new condenser.
Title: Re: Phaeton on the way out?
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 27 June 2019, 14:10:43
Unfortunately that's what happens when a company rebadges a Bentley and sells it for a quarter of the price... At some point you get Bentley bills :'(
Title: Re: Phaeton on the way out?
Post by: Fuse 19 on 27 June 2019, 15:25:37
After a couple of weeks away on business just collected the Phaeton so now back on road - however - nothing but bad luck with it. Indie sent steering rack away for refurb but due to corrosion was beyond remanufacture. Decided on a VW refurbed rack and hopefully with them they will not look too closely at the exchanged rack. This may take several weeks before we hear on value. Other pipes connected to rack corroded and replaced also. Aircon condenser replaced but sods law once re-gassed there were leaks from the valves where you connect up to do the  re-gas. This was sorted but system will not take a full charge and throughput only coolish so definitely not working properly despite no leaks. Seems the system has had no refrigerant in for a long time and stuff has seized up so thought is with the valve buried behind dashboard which is something of a no go area in this car. Can only get 180g of 600g in so decision is to run it to see if now gassed it may sort out whatever restriction is there. Hopefully it is not a problem with new condenser.

I smell something.....expansion valve cant impact gas charge quantity (as it can fill from the low and high sides)
Title: Re: Phaeton on the way out?
Post by: pscocoa on 27 June 2019, 17:13:04
After a couple of weeks away on business just collected the Phaeton so now back on road - however - nothing but bad luck with it. Indie sent steering rack away for refurb but due to corrosion was beyond remanufacture. Decided on a VW refurbed rack and hopefully with them they will not look too closely at the exchanged rack. This may take several weeks before we hear on value. Other pipes connected to rack corroded and replaced also. Aircon condenser replaced but sods law once re-gassed there were leaks from the valves where you connect up to do the  re-gas. This was sorted but system will not take a full charge and throughput only coolish so definitely not working properly despite no leaks. Seems the system has had no refrigerant in for a long time and stuff has seized up so thought is with the valve buried behind dashboard which is something of a no go area in this car. Can only get 180g of 600g in so decision is to run it to see if now gassed it may sort out whatever restriction is there. Hopefully it is not a problem with new condenser.

I smell something.....expansion valve cant impact gas charge quantity (as it can fill from the low and high sides)

Possibly restriction in new Condensor??
Title: Re: Phaeton on the way out?
Post by: pscocoa on 28 June 2019, 18:11:24
I misunderstood the position re 180g v 600g of gas. What mechanic meant was with more than 180g in the system it shuts down and throws fault codes. So not realising this just had it  topped up to 600g with a mobile aircon guy and of course it shut down. Just trying to contact Tunnie to see if he can clear the codes with his VAG system  - apparently it will work if you drive off straight away and do not allow car to idle. Problem could be compressor or some pressure valve as pressure very high.
Title: Re: Phaeton on the way out?
Post by: henryd on 28 June 2019, 18:17:36
Surely the Indy has the means to read and clear codes ::)
Title: Re: Phaeton on the way out?
Post by: pscocoa on 28 June 2019, 18:50:28
Yes he has. It was throwing codes if you put more than 180g in. Just driven it and it is starting to work I think - quite cold so maybe it resets itself. When it was purged tonight there seemed to be an air bubble. God knows what is going on.
Title: Re: Phaeton on the way out?
Post by: tunnie on 28 June 2019, 21:46:27
Replied to your PM  :y

Tomorrow would be a good test if it's working! Feel free top drop by for a diag session, hopefully that laptop power cable is where I think it is.  ;D
Title: Re: Phaeton on the way out?
Post by: pscocoa on 28 June 2019, 22:23:21
now working but will be good to see codes situation. Used an AC thermometer from Halfrauds and it is showing 45  degrees F at the centre ducts.

PM sent to you Mark.
Title: Re: Phaeton on the way out?
Post by: pscocoa on 30 June 2019, 16:43:49
Thanks Mark (Tunnie) for your work on VW codes today
Title: Re: Phaeton on the way out?
Post by: tunnie on 30 June 2019, 17:37:43
No worries  :y