Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: terry paget on 12 August 2019, 19:13:26

Title: Cam belt kit for a 2008 1.6 petrol manual Astra sought
Post by: terry paget on 12 August 2019, 19:13:26
I have just bought a 2008 1.6 Astra manual, 108000 miles on the clock and no history of a cam belt change. In April I bought a kit from ECP for 44, but now they want 139.99. Any tips?
Title: Re: Cam belt kit for a 2008 1.6 petrol manual Astra sought
Post by: dave the builder on 12 August 2019, 19:45:01
clicky    
  (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gates-Timing-Cam-Belt-Water-Pump-Kit-KP15603XS-BRAND-NEW-5-YEAR-WARRANTY/163050686458?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649)82.50 proper gates kit including water pump

spec gates autocat clicky (https://www.gatesautocat.com/article/KP15603XS) to check your exact model

I thought the cheap 44 kit you ordered was incorrect and you had to buy another  :-\

I will see if i can find a pic of where to put the locking tools for you this time  ::)
Title: Re: Cam belt kit for a 2008 1.6 petrol manual Astra sought
Post by: STEMO on 12 August 2019, 20:06:12
clicky    
  (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gates-Timing-Cam-Belt-Water-Pump-Kit-KP15603XS-BRAND-NEW-5-YEAR-WARRANTY/163050686458?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649)82.50 proper gates kit including water pump

spec gates autocat clicky (https://www.gatesautocat.com/article/KP15603XS) to check your exact model

I thought the cheap 44 kit you ordered was incorrect and you had to buy another  :-\

I will see if i can find a pic of where to put the locking tools for you this time  ::)
Don't you dare! Poor old Terry. ;D
Title: Re: Cam belt kit for a 2008 1.6 petrol manual Astra sought
Post by: terry paget on 12 August 2019, 20:35:39
Thanks Dave. I wasn't planning to change the water pump. I have Astras showing 174K and 155K on their original water pumps running fine, and if the pump fails it's not serious. Cambelt failure is disastrous.
Title: Re: Cam belt kit for a 2008 1.6 petrol manual Astra sought
Post by: henryd on 12 August 2019, 20:41:15
Thanks Dave. I wasn't planning to change the water pump. I have Astras showing 174K and 155K on their original water pumps running fine, and if the pump fails it's not serious. Cambelt failure is disastrous.

If the pump is cambelt driven it needs changing with the belt kit :y
Title: Re: Cam belt kit for a 2008 1.6 petrol manual Astra sought
Post by: Andy B on 12 August 2019, 20:42:49
Thanks Dave. I wasn't planning to change the water pump. I have Astras showing 174K and 155K on their original water pumps running fine, and if the pump fails it's not serious. Cambelt failure is disastrous.

The point of changing a water pump on any car/engine that drives the water pump with its cam belt is that if the pump fails & the bearing on the shaft fails sufficiently that the belt slips ...... bye-bye engine
Title: Re: Cam belt kit for a 2008 1.6 petrol manual Astra sought
Post by: dave the builder on 12 August 2019, 20:44:13


I will see if i can find a pic of where to put the locking tools for you this time  ::)
Don't you dare! Poor old Terry. ;D
:D ;D Not those photos  ;D :D

(https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67832265_1292630017614190_6630809900156977152_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_oc=AQkiR041gAouUYsNH3tSeVhBjMEaNc_-ffJj7GIL1MjseKdlxqUaRLWxFWL366Q3KIf3A4l-MbeCL3ToEcNaUuHf&_nc_ht=scontent-lht6-1.xx&oh=686c1a670f310451f5ef2e0e65a2f4e0&oe=5E15ED63)
the crankshaft locking bracket bolts into the gap between sump and block near the front engine mount (locking the crank at TDC no 1 ,allowing easy bolt removal)

(https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/68785501_1292629554280903_7547236984889016320_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_oc=AQktnYYkoantItyr3sLKtuw0XX2G4AfHdWEAvKx1bnRfaA7diMESk-tNKlmjDd55VXnwgW4S9w0uvs7l1mza2oKf&_nc_ht=scontent-lht6-1.xx&oh=3c4944e15ba5c4b1fa92e0c33669df49&oe=5DD10C39)
red chocks go between cam sprockets locking them

(https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/68480597_1292629814280877_6922234958882799616_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_oc=AQmBb41a90RTnCmWU8RmO0pUQpSjLe_57tLv7y5rAXJOETPPRZ5Fb8lSX0nI-oGGjPPGtDmbC6JP4Z7TihPwVfK6&_nc_ht=scontent-lht6-1.xx&oh=34dce27ca5b1af6d9accd70268710916&oe=5DD579D3)

harmonic damper /crankshaft pulley removed showing lower timing mark @ 6 o'clock

Thanks Dave. I wasn't planning to change the water pump. I have Astras showing 174K and 155K on their original water pumps running fine, and if the pump fails it's not serious. Cambelt failure is disastrous.

If the pump is cambelt driven it needs changing with the belt kit :y

It's not cambelt driven on these  :y

Thanks Dave. I wasn't planning to change the water pump. I have Astras showing 174K and 155K on their original water pumps running fine, and if the pump fails it's not serious. Cambelt failure is disastrous.

your choice  :D ;D
Title: Re: Cam belt kit for a 2008 1.6 petrol manual Astra sought
Post by: dave the builder on 12 August 2019, 20:55:52
the water pump on these astra H 1.6 is driven by the aux belt
BUT , i've had an original pump completely mullered at only 100K and leaking before
while all the stuff is out the way, the water pump is just 4 or 5 very easy to get at torx bolts
I replace the pump and belt and bearings all in one go , you don't have too
I also grease the bearings of the aux belt tensioner
may as well do it all while it's apart ,ready for another 10 years or 100k of service  :-X
Title: Re: Cam belt kit for a 2008 1.6 petrol manual Astra sought
Post by: biggriffin on 12 August 2019, 21:42:58
the water pump on these astra H 1.6 is driven by the aux belt
BUT , i've had an original pump completely mullered at only 100K and leaking before
while all the stuff is out the way, the water pump is just 4 or 5 very easy to get at torx bolts
I replace the pump and belt and bearings all in one go , you don't have too
I also grease the bearings of the aux belt tensioner
may as well do it all while it's apart ,ready for another 10 years or 100k of service  :-X


If Terry was to do that, we wouldn't get another thread entitled "astra keeps boiling up" or astra has shredded aux belt"
Title: Re: Cam belt kit for a 2008 1.6 petrol manual Astra sought
Post by: Nick W on 12 August 2019, 21:47:06
the water pump on these astra H 1.6 is driven by the aux belt
BUT , i've had an original pump completely mullered at only 100K and leaking before
while all the stuff is out the way, the water pump is just 4 or 5 very easy to get at torx bolts
I replace the pump and belt and bearings all in one go , you don't have too
I also grease the bearings of the aux belt tensioner
may as well do it all while it's apart ,ready for another 10 years or 100k of service  :-X


If Terry was to do that, we wouldn't get another thread entitled "astra keeps boiling up" or astra has shredded aux belt"


Or the collection of wrong/fake/undelivered water pumps acquired through TB's Ebay account ;D
Title: Re: Cam belt kit for a 2008 1.6 petrol manual Astra sought
Post by: dave the builder on 12 August 2019, 21:54:40
the water pump on these astra H 1.6 is driven by the aux belt
BUT , i've had an original pump completely mullered at only 100K and leaking before
while all the stuff is out the way, the water pump is just 4 or 5 very easy to get at torx bolts
I replace the pump and belt and bearings all in one go , you don't have too
I also grease the bearings of the aux belt tensioner
may as well do it all while it's apart ,ready for another 10 years or 100k of service  :-X


If Terry was to do that, we wouldn't get another thread entitled "astra keeps boiling up" or astra has shredded aux belt"
Use the search facility  :y
these threads already exist  ;D
AA man said "waterpump"  :P

Title: Re: Cam belt kit for a 2008 1.6 petrol manual Astra sought
Post by: terry paget on 12 August 2019, 22:22:00
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/b737cnz94dd159f/ASTRAcamKIT.jpg?dl=1)
Thanks for the advice, Dave. That explains what the steel item on the left does. That still leaves the top and second down metal tools to find a use for.
Title: Re: Cam belt kit for a 2008 1.6 petrol manual Astra sought
Post by: dave the builder on 12 August 2019, 22:36:28
Top black bar lock the cams at the other end if you removed the cylinder head
silver L shape is flywheel holding tool
neither needed to swap belt
but the silver item on the left is very helpful  :y
Title: Re: Cam belt kit for a 2008 1.6 petrol manual Astra sought
Post by: terry paget on 12 August 2019, 22:48:04
Top black bar lock the cams at the other end if you removed the cylinder head
silver L shape is flywheel holding tool
neither needed to swap belt
but the silver item on the left is very helpful  :y
Thank you.
Over the years changing cam belts on 4 and 6 cylinder Omegas has become routine, but I am learning all over again how to do it on Astras.

I have known auxiliary belt failures on Omegas, so these things do happen
Title: Re: Cam belt kit for a 2008 1.6 petrol manual Astra sought
Post by: biggriffin on 13 August 2019, 13:14:39
Top black bar lock the cams at the other end if you removed the cylinder head
silver L shape is flywheel holding tool
neither needed to swap belt
but the silver item on the left is very helpful  :y
Thank you.
Over the years changing cam belts on 4 and 6 cylinder Omegas has become routine, but I am learning all over again how to do it on Astras.

I have known auxiliary belt failures on Omegas, so these things do happen


Exactly, so put a new auxiliary belt on, remove the aux-belt pully and re-pack the bearing, or buy a new pulley,  preventative maintenance.
Title: Re: Cam belt kit for a 2008 1.6 petrol manual Astra sought
Post by: terry paget on 13 August 2019, 20:23:01
Top black bar lock the cams at the other end if you removed the cylinder head
silver L shape is flywheel holding tool
neither needed to swap belt
but the silver item on the left is very helpful  :y
Thank you.
Over the years changing cam belts on 4 and 6 cylinder Omegas has become routine, but I am learning all over again how to do it on Astras.

I have known auxiliary belt failures on Omegas, so these things do happen


Exactly, so put a new auxiliary belt on, remove the aux-belt pully and re-pack the bearing, or buy a new pulley,  preventative maintenance.
As Nick W taught me to do some years ago. What usually fails is the bearing, not the belt. But when the bearing seizes up, the belt breaks, I loose water pump and alternator, and have to walk home.
Title: Re: Cam belt kit for a 2008 1.6 petrol manual Astra sought
Post by: terry paget on 17 August 2019, 17:46:41
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/wz3gr6jdk5smnu4/sumpABOVEfrontMOUNT.jpg?dl=1)
Looking where to insert the locking tool, with little success. Here is the view from below of the sump above the front engine mount and near the exhaust downpipe. Haynes suggests a steel strip inserted somewhere into the teeth of the flywheel ring would do the job too. Where should I be looking?
Title: Re: Cam belt kit for a 2008 1.6 petrol manual Astra sought
Post by: dave the builder on 17 August 2019, 18:21:58


(https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67832265_1292630017614190_6630809900156977152_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_oc=AQkiR041gAouUYsNH3tSeVhBjMEaNc_-ffJj7GIL1MjseKdlxqUaRLWxFWL366Q3KIf3A4l-MbeCL3ToEcNaUuHf&_nc_ht=scontent-lht6-1.xx&oh=686c1a670f310451f5ef2e0e65a2f4e0&oe=5E15ED63)
the crankshaft locking bracket bolts into the gap between sump and block near the front engine mount (locking the crank at TDC no 1 ,allowing easy bolt removal)


your pic is upside down to mine BUT the bolt that holds the locking tool is the same by the looks of it
(so the tool slides in between sump and block,where the shadow is on your pic, right of the nut/bolt)
(you need to remove the bolt, add the locking tool,refit the bolt,which secures the locking tool)
in my pic you can see the oil filter above it,hence oil everywhere  :P

you need to get the timing bang on to insert the locking tool
with a torx socket on a bar on the crankshaft bolt, a slight movement clockwise or anti clockwise will allow the locking tool in  :y

just to clarify , the engine needs to be set to factory timing marks BEFORE the locking tool will go in
Title: Re: Cam belt kit for a 2008 1.6 petrol manual Astra sought
Post by: terry paget on 17 August 2019, 18:55:59
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/0t2y183b9gnywaf/SUMPblock3.jpg?dl=1)
Timing is set correct at the crankshaft. Above is a slightly differentr pic without the shadow. I will try again, wiggling the crank.
Title: Re: Cam belt kit for a 2008 1.6 petrol manual Astra sought
Post by: terry paget on 18 August 2019, 09:54:46
About to remove the old belt. Haynes instructs me to rotate the tensioner clockwise to release the tension and lock it there with a drill bit in the slot on the inner edge of the tensioner. I cannot lock the tensioner thus. Please advise.
Title: Re: Cam belt kit for a 2008 1.6 petrol manual Astra sought
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 18 August 2019, 09:59:58
Have you rotated the tensioner pulley to the stop?
Title: Re: Cam belt kit for a 2008 1.6 petrol manual Astra sought
Post by: dave the builder on 18 August 2019, 10:37:01
the Tensioner design has been changed twice, early ones you could lock off with the thin pin in the locking kit , later ones you use an allen key /hex key  to slacken the belt .
the aux belt tensioner can be locked off with the pin from the locking kit

IF you checked to see the kit is the same as fitted ,correct belt etc
and IF you have all the locking tools in place and the engine is timed and locked
just remove the belt idol pulley bolt and belt will come off

if you purchased a Gates kit as per my link then there is full instructions sheet in the box  :-\

and remember to hold the crankshaft pulley/harmonic damper onto the keyway and hand tighten the new bolt to ensure it sits correctly BEFORE torque it up or put an impact on it  :y

and once the new belt is on and and under tension, remove ALL the locking tools (put them back in the box and make sure non are missing) BEFORE rotating the engine by hand a few times to check timing  :y
Title: Re: Cam belt kit for a 2008 1.6 petrol manual Astra sought
Post by: terry paget on 18 August 2019, 11:54:15
Thanks for good advice, Dave. Funny thing is I changed the cam belt kit in my 2006 Astra and it was a piece of cake. This 2008 car is quite different. I should have bought the Gates kit, but too late now. I am using the pin from the kit to lock the auxiliary belt tensioner.
The Haynes 2004-2008 Astra manual was fine for the 2006 car, but quite wrong for the 2008 car. The 2009-2013 manual applies, but even that is out of date.
Belt is now on, and looks OK. Thanks for the tip on the crankshaft pulley refitting; I think that's where I went wrong last time.
Title: Re: Cam belt kit for a 2008 1.6 petrol manual Astra sought
Post by: dave the builder on 18 August 2019, 12:37:49
Ok Terry , glad you managed to work it out  :y
the later VVT engine is slightly different but all pretty similar
I don't bother with Haynes manuals anymore because there are so many revisions AFTER the manual is written  :-X
and GM bounce around different part suppliers ,and parts end up being slightly different  ::)

Title: Re: Cam belt kit for a 2008 1.6 petrol manual Astra sought
Post by: terry paget on 18 August 2019, 18:06:59
All reassembled, took it for a 12 mile test run, it's fine. Obviously drove the same as before, but now I can send my daughter back to London in it next weekend with every hope it will not let her down. Thanks for your help Dave, I was struggling for a bit. I wish they would not change things, but there you go, I suppose that's progress.
Title: Re: Cam belt kit for a 2008 1.6 petrol manual Astra sought
Post by: Sir Tigger QC on 18 August 2019, 18:25:37
Well done Terry!  :y
Title: Re: Cam belt kit for a 2008 1.6 petrol manual Astra sought
Post by: terry paget on 19 August 2019, 16:16:48
Reading this thread again, I realised what I had failed to do was grease the auxiliary belt pulley bearing. I have suffered two failures of such bearings; they don't wreck the engine, but are jolly inconvenient. Today I rectified my failure.