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Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: VXL V6 on 12 August 2020, 15:37:45

Title: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: VXL V6 on 12 August 2020, 15:37:45
What would peoples thoughts be for a cheap runaround that can munch a few miles if necessary and is cheap to run but not a wheezy shopping car?

By cheap I mean less than 2K
By munch miles I mean around 20-25K a year?
Cheap to run would probably mean something under 2.0 Litres and possibly a diesel?

I was thinking along the lines of:-

Astra H 1.6 Petrol or 1.7CDTi (although the seats would need to more supportive than the ones in Mrs VXL V6's Design model)

Signum 1.9

Astra G (MK4) 1.6 petrol or 1.7CDTi - I still like these and they are simple to work on and don't suffer many rust issues

318d / 320d - A bit more refinement over the Vauxhall offerings.


Obviously I haven't researched in any great detail, i'm just interested in peoples thoughts.
 
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 12 August 2020, 16:42:53
1.9 tdi Golf within budget with a long MoT ;)

Budget allows for a modest petrol S Class.
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: VXL V6 on 12 August 2020, 16:53:22
1.9 tdi Golf within budget with a long MoT ;)

Budget allows for a modest petrol S Class.

1.9 that would be the PD engine I guess?

Not thought about an S class  :)
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: henryd on 12 August 2020, 16:58:10
1.9 tdi Golf within budget with a long MoT ;)

Budget allows for a modest petrol S Class.

1.9 that would be the PD engine I guess?

Not thought about an S class  :)

Vw PD engine will run for ever if belted and oil changed well, I find the newer 1.6-2.0 Diesels less reliable with expensive EGR issues common
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Viral_Jim on 12 August 2020, 17:03:53
Early 1.9 Skoda superb? If you can find one without Starship Enterprise mileage - same PD engine but more space than the golf.
1.9 Saab 9-5? - Basically the Vectra but with better seats.
Some Volvo with the D5 engine? You can get these without DPF which reduces potential bills.

Personally, at that end of the market I would avoid BMW/Audi/Anything 'prestige'. Much higher chance it will have been bought by someone who wanted the badge but not the running costs and not maintained properly.
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 12 August 2020, 17:17:51
Summat like... https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202005219459870... Avoid the 2.0 tdi injectors a 500 each and basically a service item. For all their faults, these wear mileage better than the Astra.

Plenty of cars with this engine, but AVOID the Audi/Passat/Superb platform as the engine is the wrong way round, which puts all 200kgs of the engine ahead of the front (driven) wheels which detroys the handling and means the whole front end has to come off to change the cambelt or clutch. Taxi firms only used the Superb because they were cheap to buy.

Starter for 10...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202008102329463

Long MoT, post '04 so fewer rust issues (better materials), possibly also 7 speed auto. So pretty relaxed, plenty of seat adjustment as well. Only significant down size is the boot isn't quite as practical as it looks... But might be good enough to retire your work hack ;)

I hadn't looked at the pictures, those front wings are shot. But they bolt on and are cheap enough new... 199 for a pair plus paint and an afternoons work. Very good haggling pount though :y
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: TheBoy on 12 August 2020, 17:48:15
An LPG kit on one of your existing Omegas ;D

Assuming you can get LPG, of course, as its rocking horse shit around here now :(
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: VXL V6 on 12 August 2020, 18:04:30
Interesting responses  :y

It's an interesting price point that is slightly above banger territory (something to get you around for a few months!), there seems to be a lot out there and I think the key is to keep the complexity down.

The VAG PD is known to be pretty hardy... but body wiring loom quality on VAG models around 2000-2008 is dire.. Although repairing is not beyond the capabilities of anyone who can use a soldering iron.

Saab is an interesting proposition, same Fiat engine as in many VX products. Was there some issues with the gearbox that was bolted to these?

As you look at newer cars you seem to get bigger bills. eg. newer regulation brings things like DPF's etc into play, older cars with less toys seem to escape some of these issues but then higher mileages mean items like clutches and corrosion start tipping the scale.
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: TheBoy on 12 August 2020, 18:11:09
And remember diesel manuals will likely suffer from DMF issues once they have a few miles on.  That can end up being a large expense.
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: VXL V6 on 12 August 2020, 18:28:00
An LPG kit on one of your existing Omegas ;D

Assuming you can get LPG, of course, as its rocking horse shit around here now :(

Well now you mention it....

The project Omega is nearly there now - needs a visit to you to get some programming electrons fed into the head unit and telematics, a new condensor and re-gas, then a few miles of proper use before starting the LPG install - The thought is to use this car in the summer and SORN it over the winter, then the older daily would be taxed and used over the winter... The thing is it's beginning to need a few bits doing on it and I am planning to wait until it goes in for MOT in case there's far more wrong with it than i'm letting myself believe!

It's all just thoughts at the moment, but i'm err'ing towards replacing the daily with something at the cheap end of the market if it fails the MOT spectacularly and maybe saving a bit on fuel in the process.

The other end of the scale is to buy something around 10K and a lot newer..... but you and I... and many others on here know that finding a suitable / better replacement that you would expect to have better handling, refinement, power and equipment is no easy task.
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 12 August 2020, 20:02:41
Although, that task is easier if you're less blinkered in the search ;D

Jimbobs E Class, for example  ;)

Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: dave the builder on 12 August 2020, 20:43:24
just put SRi  or SXi seats in the wife's Astra 1.7 design and "borrow it"  ;)
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: VXL V6 on 12 August 2020, 22:05:25
But it's an estate.... Have I ever mentioned I don't like estates?  ;D

...but yes, SXi and Sri seats are much better!

Really just interested in people's thoughts and experiences of cars that meet the criteria and, just like the current daily, the sort of cars that you don't worry about when they suffer the battle scars of daily life.

Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 13 August 2020, 01:03:10
But it's an estate.... Have I ever mentioned I don't like estates?  ;D

...but yes, SXi and Sri seats are much better!

Really just interested in people's thoughts and experiences of cars that meet the criteria and, just like the current daily, the sort of cars that you don't worry about when they suffer the battle scars of daily life.
It's in the water I tell you... ;D

Dad was a teacher and had a run of modest cars, R5, Sierra, R19... and having written off the last two, was looking at another R5 :o His driving was occasional weekend running around, a 3,000 mile 3-4 week trip every summer holiday and a fortnightly commute from rural North Norfolk to central London, so say a round trip of 250 miles... and most of this was motorway or fast A roads.

I suggested that he bought a car more suited to longer journeys as that was fundamentally how he used the car. He conceded this point, as he had never looked at it that way. Subsequently he bought a Granada Scorpio and got a few years good use out of it, only getting shot when it was written off in a pile up on the A11. He spent a few days in Addenbrookes, but was otherwise fine and extremely thankful that he hadn't gone with the R5. He replaced it with a further Granada and then a late Scorpio estate, only buying a small run around when he finally retired and stopped doing the mileage.

Point is, if you're going to be spending time doing serious distances, then buy a suitable car.  ;) 
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: biggriffin on 13 August 2020, 06:13:58
French Cars are always cheap ;)  leaving the building ;D
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: BazaJT on 13 August 2020, 09:32:27
For something roughly Astra sized Volvo S40 with[I think] 1.9 diesel,something a bit bigger-both bodily and engine capacity-Volvo S60 with the 5 cylinder D5 or a bit larger body Volvo S80 again with D5.
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Sir Tigger QC on 13 August 2020, 10:21:22
Mk6 Fiesta 1.4 petrol!  :y

Cheap to buy, run, insure and maintain, roomy for the size and fun to drive, and I'd have one tomorrow if I needed a cheap runabout.  :)
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 13 August 2020, 11:07:37
Mk6 Fiesta 1.4 petrol!  :y

Cheap to buy, run, insure and maintain, roomy for the size and fun to drive, and I'd have one tomorrow if I needed a cheap runabout.  :)
Would you do 25k miles a year in one?
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: VXL V6 on 13 August 2020, 11:13:20
Volvo's are interesting cars, I guess at the price point it would be late Ford ownership and possibly early Geeley ownership. I don't think the D5 lump would be in the lower tax brackets would it?
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Nick W on 13 August 2020, 11:14:47
Mk6 Fiesta 1.4 petrol!  :y

Cheap to buy, run, insure and maintain, roomy for the size and fun to drive, and I'd have one tomorrow if I needed a cheap runabout.  :)


Me too. 750 gets you a nice, tidy car with a decent interior. Spend a day on a major service, new shocks, wishbones and four tyres and it's ready for 25,000 miles p/a with just oil changes twice a year. And there's a decent chunk of change change from your 2k budget.

Same thing applies to an Astra G.

However, if doing that sort of mileage, you do need to pick a car that you find comfortable.
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Nick W on 13 August 2020, 11:17:38
Mk6 Fiesta 1.4 petrol!  :y

Cheap to buy, run, insure and maintain, roomy for the size and fun to drive, and I'd have one tomorrow if I needed a cheap runabout.  :)
Would you do 25k miles a year in one?


It's like a mk1 Focus. But with comfortable seats. And driving position. And suspension. And a usable boot if that matters. And it doesn't make you wish you were blind every time you look at it.
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Sir Tigger QC on 13 August 2020, 11:25:57
Mk6 Fiesta 1.4 petrol!  :y

Cheap to buy, run, insure and maintain, roomy for the size and fun to drive, and I'd have one tomorrow if I needed a cheap runabout.  :)
Would you do 25k miles a year in one?

Yes.  My Mum had one and it was surprisingly comfy on long journeys.  :y

Andy asked for a cheap runabout, not a luxobarge.  ::)  :P
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: VXL V6 on 13 August 2020, 11:26:26
....

However, if doing that sort of mileage, you do need to pick a car that you find comfortable.

That's a pretty key point, I don't really class 25K as high mileage as i've always done over 30K a year since I passed my test (When TV was black and white LOL!), the Omega Elite seats are excellent with the amount of adjustment and there's not many car seats that I find as comfortable and supportive.
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: VXL V6 on 13 August 2020, 11:29:19
I'm really just trying to stir up debate here  :y

If you look at this from a perspective of lower road tax and Ulez exemption you start to be pushed towards newer cars, ironically a rusty 3.2 Omega is exempt for Ulez  ;D
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 13 August 2020, 11:38:35
The seats in the S Class are more adjustable than the Omega as you can set the squab length independently of the seat position...

Steering column is electrically adjustable for both reach and rake.  ;)
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Nick W on 13 August 2020, 11:39:18
....

However, if doing that sort of mileage, you do need to pick a car that you find comfortable.

That's a pretty key point, I don't really class 25K as high mileage as i've always done over 30K a year since I passed my test (When TV was black and white LOL!), the Omega Elite seats are excellent with the amount of adjustment and there's not many car seats that I find as comfortable and supportive.


I thought that until I rebuilt my 160,000 mile driver seat with the base and back foam from a passenger seat. That made it even better, in the same fitting new shocks and springs always does.


When buying a cheap car to do that sort of mileage, a good, clean, unmolested interior is high on the must have list.
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: VXL V6 on 13 August 2020, 11:45:42
....

However, if doing that sort of mileage, you do need to pick a car that you find comfortable.

That's a pretty key point, I don't really class 25K as high mileage as i've always done over 30K a year since I passed my test (When TV was black and white LOL!), the Omega Elite seats are excellent with the amount of adjustment and there's not many car seats that I find as comfortable and supportive.


I thought that until I rebuilt my 160,000 mile driver seat with the base and back foam from a passenger seat. That made it even better, in the same fitting new shocks and springs always does.


When buying a cheap car to do that sort of mileage, a good, clean, unmolested interior is high on the must have list.

Yes, There's a definite difference between my 105K and 237K Elite's as you'd expect, but I still maintain that the Elite seats are some of the best long distance seats ive spent time sat in on any car. I think the range of adjustment is equally as important as the sculpture and support of the seat.
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 13 August 2020, 11:47:41
Mk6 Fiesta 1.4 petrol!  :y

Cheap to buy, run, insure and maintain, roomy for the size and fun to drive, and I'd have one tomorrow if I needed a cheap runabout.  :)
Would you do 25k miles a year in one?

Yes.  My Mum had one and it was surprisingly comfy on long journeys.  :y

Andy asked for a cheap runabout, not a luxobarge.  ::)  :P
True, but there's a big difference between popping to the shops every five minutes (my definition of a runaround) and doing work mileages ;)

ULEZ could be a problem though, unless the charge is built into job pricing/offset against tax :-\
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Nick W on 13 August 2020, 12:01:39


Yes, There's a definite difference between my 105K and 237K Elite's as you'd expect, but I still maintain that the Elite seats are some of the best long distance seats ive spent time sat in on any car. I think the range of adjustment is equally as important as the sculpture and support of the seat.


I'm not a fan of lots of adjustments, as it encourages designers to skimp on the basic design/installation. And then you end up constantly fiddling with the adjustments to stay comfortable if you ever managed it in the first place. Mum's '12 Focus is like that;it has the usual rake, front back, height, lumbar etc, but the adjustments are far  too coarse and the height adjustment is done by a weird mech that moves in more than arc. With 3 of us driving it, I can never get the seat in the same barely good enough position twice.  The Omega seats got all of those right(they're by Recaro, so that's hardly a surprise) so that I took a few seconds to adjust the seat when I bought the car and never fiddled with it again. The memory function was useful to return to that on the few occasions my sister drove the car.


I found the sports Recaros that Ford used in the '70s and 80's to be better still: perfectly supportive and instantly comfortable, even though they have barely any padding on sheet steel frames and only the rake was adjustable. Somebody spent a lot of time actually designing the things to suit real bodies!
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Viral_Jim on 13 August 2020, 13:16:18
Volvo's are interesting cars, I guess at the price point it would be late Ford ownership and possibly early Geeley ownership. I don't think the D5 lump would be in the lower tax brackets would it?

Personally I'd go pre-2006 as the facelifted cars have a more modern interior but are less comfortable. The D5 of that age is in the 300ish tax bracket, later ones are similar. Something like this (although no heated seats in this one):

S60 Linky (https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202005269566682?fuel-type=Diesel&sort=relevance&onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=Used&advertising-location=at_cars&make=VOLVO&model=S60&price-to=2000&transmission=Manual&radius=1500&postcode=dy116tu&page=1)

The C30 hatch is also worth considering if you are looking for astra size car. The D5 lump is big for a hatchback and gives them genuine poke. Here do (https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202008032022708?sort=relevance&transmission=Automatic&onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=Used&price-to=2000&make=VOLVO&fuel-type=Diesel&model=C30&radius=1500&postcode=dy116tu&advertising-location=at_cars&page=1)  :y
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Rangie on 13 August 2020, 13:25:04
A simple daily runaround in my eyes would be something simple & cheap with good spares availability , personally I'd go for a Ford Fiesta.
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 13 August 2020, 13:36:46
....

However, if doing that sort of mileage, you do need to pick a car that you find comfortable.

That's a pretty key point, I don't really class 25K as high mileage as i've always done over 30K a year since I passed my test (When TV was black and white LOL!), the Omega Elite seats are excellent with the amount of adjustment and there's not many car seats that I find as comfortable and supportive.

......and the valves took ages to 'warm up'... :)
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 13 August 2020, 14:06:45
The early Astra J's are around that sort of price and the 1.7 CDTi is pretty bulletproof, good mpg and zero road tax.

Astra J is A better place to be than the G or H to, just find one with the better seats
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 13 August 2020, 15:29:34
Electric seat adjustment has manual adjustment beat on refining position, and very few modest cars have them even as an option. Even some cars that should have full electric only have partial electric adjustment which leaves you with the worst of both :-\
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Andy B on 13 August 2020, 16:42:36
Electric seat adjustment has manual adjustment beat on refining position, and very few modest cars have them even as an option. Even some cars that should have full electric only have partial electric adjustment which leaves you with the worst of both :-\

I never realised how much I used the memory seats on my Omega until I bough the RClass. The seats were fully electric but no memory, which meant that it seemed to take an age to get the seat back to how you wanted it when it was moved fro whatever reason.
My ML has both electric column & seats with memory ..... but manual interior mirror!  ??? ???
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Sir Tigger QC on 13 August 2020, 17:05:38

The C30 hatch is also worth considering if you are looking for astra size car. The D5 lump is big for a hatchback and gives them genuine poke. Here do (https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202008032022708?sort=relevance&transmission=Automatic&onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=Used&price-to=2000&make=VOLVO&fuel-type=Diesel&model=C30&radius=1500&postcode=dy116tu&advertising-location=at_cars&page=1)  :y

Given that the 2.4 D5 drags my lard arsed V70 along very well, I bet that C30 goes like shit off a shovel!  :y
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 13 August 2020, 17:13:57
Electric seat adjustment has manual adjustment beat on refining position, and very few modest cars have them even as an option. Even some cars that should have full electric only have partial electric adjustment which leaves you with the worst of both :-\

I never realised how much I used the memory seats on my Omega until I bough the RClass. The seats were fully electric but no memory, which meant that it seemed to take an age to get the seat back to how you wanted it when it was moved fro whatever reason.
My ML has both electric column & seats with memory ..... but manual interior mirror!  ??? ???
Mercedes dropped the electrically adjustable interior mirror when the facelifted the W140 S Class in '94... Prior to that, and unlike the Omega one, it was fully adjustable from the mirror switch. Mine has fully electric seats, but no memory, but not an issue as no one else drives it ;D Easily retrofitted though, so I may yet do that...
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Andy B on 13 August 2020, 17:45:08
Electric seat adjustment has manual adjustment beat on refining position, and very few modest cars have them even as an option. Even some cars that should have full electric only have partial electric adjustment which leaves you with the worst of both :-\

I never realised how much I used the memory seats on my Omega until I bough the RClass. The seats were fully electric but no memory, which meant that it seemed to take an age to get the seat back to how you wanted it when it was moved fro whatever reason.
My ML has both electric column & seats with memory ..... but manual interior mirror!  ??? ???
Mercedes dropped the electrically adjustable interior mirror when the facelifted the W140 S Class in '94... Prior to that, and unlike the Omega one, it was fully adjustable from the mirror switch. Mine has fully electric seats, but no memory, but not an issue as no one else drives it ;D Easily retrofitted though, so I may yet do that...
Nobody else drove my R Class but seats were moved to hoover & both front seats needed to be moved forward a little to drop the middle seat backs flat.
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 13 August 2020, 18:45:01
That much is also true of the Omega :y
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: TheBoy on 13 August 2020, 19:01:04
The seats in the S Class are more adjustable than the Omega as you can set the squab length independently of the seat position...

Steering column is electrically adjustable for both reach and rake.  ;)
The standard S class seats are awful things.  You really need the upgraded massage ones for long journeys. Even if you don't use the massage function, the seats are much more comfortable than the standard shite they fit.
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 13 August 2020, 19:52:49
Certainly the W140 seats are better than the W220 ones, but notwithstanding, they are still more adjustable than the Omega ones.

The later cars aren't in budget and the W140 was petrol only in the UK, so it's a moot point :P
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 13 August 2020, 23:25:20
Not quite in budget, but...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Orion-1-6-DGL-/124274158183
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Kevin Wood on 13 August 2020, 23:31:22
Not quite in budget, but...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Orion-1-6-DGL-/124274158183

<shudder>
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: henryd on 13 August 2020, 23:52:21
Not quite in budget, but...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Orion-1-6-DGL-/124274158183

<shudder>

 ;D that engine would sound rough in a tractor
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: ronnyd on 14 August 2020, 00:10:30
Not quite in budget, but...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Orion-1-6-DGL-/124274158183
God, what a horrible colour that steering wheel is.  :o
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 14 August 2020, 07:44:46
Electric seat adjustment has manual adjustment beat on refining position, and very few modest cars have them even as an option. Even some cars that should have full electric only have partial electric adjustment which leaves you with the worst of both :-\

I never realised how much I used the memory seats on my Omega until I bough the RClass. The seats were fully electric but no memory, which meant that it seemed to take an age to get the seat back to how you wanted it when it was moved fro whatever reason.
My ML has both electric column & seats with memory ..... but manual interior mirror!  ??? ???

no electric rear view mirror is common across the industry, its position needs to alter based on if you drive in the morning or evening so was found to never be in the right place. Hence there were complaints it was never right due to the simple fact the users spine was compressing during the day  :y (true fact this  ;D).

Of course, the smart rear view mirrors totally eliminate the need now anyway :-\

Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Rangie on 14 August 2020, 07:51:46
Never really found it very strenuous to adjust the rear view mirror must be a strain to some poor folk..😄
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Viral_Jim on 14 August 2020, 08:43:11
Hence there were complaints it was never right due to the simple fact the users spine was compressing during the day  :y (true fact this  ;D).

I have never noticed this phenomenon - but I'll now be looking out for it  :D
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Rangie on 14 August 2020, 08:45:36
Hence there were complaints it was never right due to the simple fact the users spine was compressing during the day  :y (true fact this  ;D).

I have never noticed this phenomenon - but I'll now be looking out for it  :D
.   

Makes you so tiny that you can't reach the mirror 😂
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Nick W on 14 August 2020, 09:19:33
Never really found it very strenuous to adjust the rear view mirror must be a strain to some poor folk..😄


Both my mother and sister slide the seat almost  to the front of the runner, and have the back almost upright. I don't do either but in all the cars we've driven between us, I've never needed to adjust any of the mirrors to use them. Why would you need to move the screen mirror just because the light has changed? :o 


An auto-dipping mirror is nice to have, but it's hardly essential.


Far too many features are gimmicks because they are poorly implemented: electric windows that are only one touch down but not up - Ford compound this by only having it on the driver's door; full closure that requires you to hold the button on the remote for as long as it takes, when it ought to be included in the dead locks; electric seats without memories; mood lighting - it's utterly ghastly; haven't seen this for a while, but remote adjustable door mirror only on the driver's door - clearly specced by someone who had never seen a car, let alone driven one; screens that display text to tell you your door is open, but only an EML that could mean anything; electric boot releases that don't open with the engine running; mechanical keys and a start button; interior lights that a make a glow worm look bright; controls that are not obvious how they work, like pulling the light switch to turn on the courtesy light or just scattering controls randomly around the dash; considering how much electronic crap is in a modern car, why do none have continuously variable wiper speeds - one knob to go from off, through various intermittent delays to full speed; electric closers that are so slow operated by sensors that are so poor you look like you need a piss rather than trying to open the boot; I could go on.


One of the things that make older cars more appealing is they have none of this stuff, so it isn't infuriating when it doesn't work properly.
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 14 August 2020, 09:31:05
Hence there were complaints it was never right due to the simple fact the users spine was compressing during the day  :y (true fact this  ;D).

I have never noticed this phenomenon - but I'll now be looking out for it  :D

Get in the car in the morning, set the mirror, see how far out the mirror is in the evening  :y
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Rangie on 14 August 2020, 09:31:27
Never really found it very strenuous to adjust the rear view mirror must be a strain to some poor folk..😄


Both my mother and sister slide the seat almost  to the front of the runner, and have the back almost upright. I don't do either but in all the cars we've driven between us, I've never needed to adjust any of the mirrors to use them. Why would you need to move the screen mirror just because the light has changed? :o 


An auto-dipping mirror is nice to have, but it's hardly essential.


Far too many features are gimmicks because they are poorly implemented: electric windows that are only one touch down but not up - Ford compound this by only having it on the driver's door; full closure that requires you to hold the button on the remote for as long as it takes, when it ought to be included in the dead locks; electric seats without memories; mood lighting - it's utterly ghastly; haven't seen this for a while, but remote adjustable door mirror only on the driver's door - clearly specced by someone who had never seen a car, let alone driven one; screens that display text to tell you your door is open, but only an EML that could mean anything; electric boot releases that don't open with the engine running; mechanical keys and a start button; interior lights that a make a glow worm look bright; controls that are not obvious how they work, like pulling the light switch to turn on the courtesy light or just scattering controls randomly around the dash; considering how much electronic crap is in a modern car, why do none have continuously variable wiper speeds - one knob to go from off, through various intermittent delays to full speed; electric closers that are so slow operated by sensors that are so poor you look like you need a piss rather than trying to open the boot; I could go on.


One of the things that make older cars more appealing is they have none of this stuff, so it isn't infuriating when it doesn't work properly.


Absolutely agree 100 percent all this electric everything is total & unnecessary crap talk about helpless & lazy, unfortunately that's how a lot of people have become.
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 14 August 2020, 09:54:51
Still, it keeps your Range Rooney garage in business if they have to replace the door locks everytime it goes in ;D
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Rangie on 14 August 2020, 10:25:41
Still, it keeps your Range Rooney garage in business if they have to replace the door locks everytime it goes in ;D


Exactly right ,lovely comfortable vehicle to drive  extremely comfortable but too many unnecessary electric items , fortunately I can afford to run one & keep it up to my standards.
 
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 14 August 2020, 10:46:19
Hence there were complaints it was never right due to the simple fact the users spine was compressing during the day  :y (true fact this  ;D).

I have never noticed this phenomenon - but I'll now be looking out for it  :D

Get in the car in the morning, set the mirror, see how far out the mirror is in the evening  :y
Mirrors, what mirrors, are they like those superfluous indicator thingies ???

 :D
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Andy B on 14 August 2020, 11:56:45
Never really found it very strenuous to adjust the rear view mirror must be a strain to some poor folk..😄
I don't find it strenuous either, just bemused as to why a 20 odd yr old main stream car has an electric interior mirror & modern expensive cars don't
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Andy B on 14 August 2020, 12:01:12
Never really found it very strenuous to adjust the rear view mirror must be a strain to some poor folk..😄


Both my mother and sister slide the seat almost  to the front of the runner, and have the back almost upright. I don't do either but in all the cars we've driven between us, I've never needed to adjust any of the mirrors to use them. Why would you need to move the screen mirror just because the light has changed? :o 


An auto-dipping mirror is nice to have, but it's hardly essential.


Far too many features are gimmicks because they are poorly implemented: electric windows that are only one touch down but not up - Ford compound this by only having it on the driver's door; full closure that requires you to hold the button on the remote for as long as it takes, when it ought to be included in the dead locks; electric seats without memories; mood lighting - it's utterly ghastly; haven't seen this for a while, but remote adjustable door mirror only on the driver's door - clearly specced by someone who had never seen a car, let alone driven one; screens that display text to tell you your door is open, but only an EML that could mean anything; electric boot releases that don't open with the engine running; mechanical keys and a start button; interior lights that a make a glow worm look bright; controls that are not obvious how they work, like pulling the light switch to turn on the courtesy light or just scattering controls randomly around the dash; considering how much electronic crap is in a modern car, why do none have continuously variable wiper speeds - one knob to go from off, through various intermittent delays to full speed; electric closers that are so slow operated by sensors that are so poor you look like you need a piss rather than trying to open the boot; I could go on.


One of the things that make older cars more appealing is they have none of this stuff, so it isn't infuriating when it doesn't work properly.

Can I add Mercs infra red total closure to the list of useless electrickery? I used to be able lock & close the windows and roof of my Omega from my front room using rf. To do the same with my Merc I need to stand next to the driver's door so the key & see the infrared window ..... pointless IMHO.
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Viral_Jim on 14 August 2020, 13:04:52
Hence there were complaints it was never right due to the simple fact the users spine was compressing during the day  :y (true fact this  ;D).

I have never noticed this phenomenon - but I'll now be looking out for it  :D

Get in the car in the morning, set the mirror, see how far out the mirror is in the evening  :y

Given the weight my spine is carting around, I can only imagine it's an awful lot  ;D
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Rangie on 14 August 2020, 13:10:46
Never really found it very strenuous to adjust the rear view mirror must be a strain to some poor folk..😄


Both my mother and sister slide the seat almost  to the front of the runner, and have the back almost upright. I don't do either but in all the cars we've driven between us, I've never needed to adjust any of the mirrors to use them. Why would you need to move the screen mirror just because the light has changed? :o 


An auto-dipping mirror is nice to have, but it's hardly essential.


Far too many features are gimmicks because they are poorly implemented: electric windows that are only one touch down but not up - Ford compound this by only having it on the driver's door; full closure that requires you to hold the button on the remote for as long as it takes, when it ought to be included in the dead locks; electric seats without memories; mood lighting - it's utterly ghastly; haven't seen this for a while, but remote adjustable door mirror only on the driver's door - clearly specced by someone who had never seen a car, let alone driven one; screens that display text to tell you your door is open, but only an EML that could mean anything; electric boot releases that don't open with the engine running; mechanical keys and a start button; interior lights that a make a glow worm look bright; controls that are not obvious how they work, like pulling the light switch to turn on the courtesy light or just scattering controls randomly around the dash; considering how much electronic crap is in a modern car, why do none have continuously variable wiper speeds - one knob to go from off, through various intermittent delays to full speed; electric closers that are so slow operated by sensors that are so poor you look like you need a piss rather than trying to open the boot; I could go on.


One of the things that make older cars more appealing is they have none of this stuff, so it isn't infuriating when it doesn't work properly.

Can I add Mercs infra red total closure to the list of useless electrickery? I used to be able lock & close the windows and roof of my Omega from my front room using rf. To do the same with my Merc I need to stand next to the driver's door so the key & see the infrared window ..... pointless IMHO.


Think I'll go back to a MK2 Lowline Zodiac , had a beautiful one around 1975/6 electric nothing wonderful 😎
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Kevin Wood on 14 August 2020, 18:10:50
Think I'll go back to a MK2 Lowline Zodiac , had a beautiful one around 1975/6 electric nothing wonderful 😎

Electric windscreen wipers would be nice, mind. ;)

My pet hate with modern cars is requiring the driver to EVER use a touch screen while driving, especially when the software behind it takes a nap every so often. 
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Migv6 le Frog Fan on 14 August 2020, 19:23:01
If you take a look at the youtube video of Gordon Murray talking about his latast supercar, he agrees with quite a lot of what has been said here.
Touchscreens should never be allowed in a car. Wheels over 17" diameter are useless fashion accessories etc. etc.
Its  fascinating to watch.
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Sir Tigger QC on 14 August 2020, 20:30:44

Think I'll go back to a MK2 Lowline Zodiac , had a beautiful one around 1975/6 electric nothing wonderful 😎

My Uncle worked for Ford's and used to turn up in a different car every time and the car that stood out from them all was the MK4 Zodiac.  8)

I was probably about 8 years old and thought  Wow what a car!   :y  Looking at pictures of MK4 Zodiacs now though they look like a Cortina on steroids!  ::)  ;D
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Nick W on 14 August 2020, 20:36:44

Think I'll go back to a MK2 Lowline Zodiac , had a beautiful one around 1975/6 electric nothing wonderful 😎

My Uncle worked for Ford's and used to turn up in a different car every time and the car that stood out from them all was the MK4 Zodiac.  8)

I was probably about 8 years old and thought  Wow what a car!   :y  Looking at pictures of MK4 Zodiacs now though they look like a Cortina on steroids!  ::) ;D


If only they drove that well!


Essex V6, terrible IRS, rear brakes to match and American style steering.


The good thing was I bought it with a knackered manual gearbox, found a replacement locally for 40, fitted it that afternoon, and doubled mu money about 2 months later when I couldn't stand it any longer :y
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Andy B on 14 August 2020, 21:13:08
...
My pet hate with modern cars is requiring the driver to EVER use a touch screen while driving, especially when the software behind it takes a nap every so often.

Agreed. The touch screen radio of my Smart isn't nice to use. Fortunately my ML has a button for everything.  :y
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: TheBoy on 15 August 2020, 11:03:13
Electric seat adjustment has manual adjustment beat on refining position, and very few modest cars have them even as an option. Even some cars that should have full electric only have partial electric adjustment which leaves you with the worst of both :-\

I never realised how much I used the memory seats on my Omega until I bough the RClass. The seats were fully electric but no memory, which meant that it seemed to take an age to get the seat back to how you wanted it when it was moved fro whatever reason.
My ML has both electric column & seats with memory ..... but manual interior mirror!  ??? ???

no electric rear view mirror is common across the industry, its position needs to alter based on if you drive in the morning or evening so was found to never be in the right place. Hence there were complaints it was never right due to the simple fact the users spine was compressing during the day  :y (true fact this  ;D).

Of course, the smart rear view mirrors totally eliminate the need now anyway :-\
On the Omegas, I could set the mirror so it was perfectly usable early morning through to late evening - granted, it wasn't always absolutely perfect, but still gave decent view behind :).

With Mrs TB being such a shortarse, its a constant bloody thing now in the Shaguar, grrr.  And a joy when I get back in TBE. Simple things make things easier :)

I'd say, couldn't they have linked it to the clock, and done very minor adjustments throughout the day...  ...but the bloody XJ can't even set the bloody time itself ;D


Smart mirrors/virtual mirrors should have started becoming standard on more premium marques ages ago, though I guess potential issues around LCD glare/distraction.  But keeping the memory on the interior mirror until such time they are usable would have been a grand idea.
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Nick W on 15 August 2020, 11:34:39

With Mrs TB being such a shortarse, its a constant bloody thing now in the Shaguar, grrr.  And a joy when I get back in TBE. Simple things make things easier :)




Things that work make things easier. For them to work they have to do it unobtrusively, efficiently, and where possible, intuitively. It's very easy to get simple things wrong, google Norman doors for an example.


Bad design is everywhere. So is good, but it's depressingly common to find good, clever design and engineering on the manufacture of an item, that is horrible to use. Anything with multiple functions operated by a complicated sequences of just four buttons is a good example.
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: TheBoy on 15 August 2020, 11:46:41

With Mrs TB being such a shortarse, its a constant bloody thing now in the Shaguar, grrr.  And a joy when I get back in TBE. Simple things make things easier :)




Things that work make things easier. For them to work they have to do it unobtrusively, efficiently, and where possible, intuitively. It's very easy to get simple things wrong, google Norman doors for an example.


Bad design is everywhere. So is good, but it's depressingly common to find good, clever design and engineering on the manufacture of an item, that is horrible to use. Anything with multiple functions operated by a complicated sequences of just four buttons is a good example.
I concur - blimey, am I agreeing with you ;D

The Omega memory system works, and is simple enough to use that even Mrs TB grasps it.  And its pretty reliable too.
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Rangie on 15 August 2020, 12:14:57
Just cleaned the RRS after getting it back from the Indie yesterday and for the first time since I've owned it (11 months) everything is working perfectly 😀 don't expect it to last for long though now I've said that ! Just glad that I've been lucky enough to find someone who knows everything about these vehicles .
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: VXL V6 on 15 August 2020, 12:37:21
I think the memory function for seats and mirrors on the Elite is excellent when you have multiple drivers of a car, I have position 3 set so it lowers the mirrors so I can see our stupid garden wall when I reverse the car onto that corner of the drive!
I also think the self dipping photo-chromatic mirror was a great idea and its a shame that the wing mirrors didn't do the same (a lot do now), maybe I notice this more in a slightly lowered car or maybe it's because of all these awful (in my opinion) high ride height SUV style vehicles.

Some of the more current technology is definitely useful, as cars become more ridiculous in design (Yep SUV's again) the blind spots seem to get worse so blind spot indicators displaying in the mirrors and front and rear parking cameras definitely have their place. The huge problem is that the general driving ability seems to have dramatically decreased... that's clearly a problem with uneducated / know better than everyone else Carbon lifeforms.

Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: YZ250 on 15 August 2020, 14:21:38
.............

Some of the more current technology is definitely useful, as cars become more ridiculous in design (Yep SUV's again) the blind spots seem to get worse so blind spot indicators displaying in the mirrors and front and rear parking cameras definitely have their place.
.........

Saw the blind spot mirror flashing on a Volvo XC90 that was sat alongside me on the motorway. Simple but effective.
Our bmw has lane discipline, which pulls you back in line if you cross the white line without indicating (didn't think that one through did they  ::) ). The problem is that it sees repaired Tarmac shiny lines as the white line and pulls you about, so I've deactivated it. A great feature if you want to drive no-handed, in conjunction with ACC, down the motorway.  ::)
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Andy B on 15 August 2020, 21:32:35
....Our bmw has lane discipline, which pulls you back in line if you cross the white line without indicating (didn't think that one through did they  ::) ). The problem is that it sees repaired Tarmac shiny lines as the white line and pulls you about, so I've deactivated it. A great feature if you want to drive no-handed, in conjunction with ACC, down the motorway.  ::)

A bloke on the Merc forum was commenting that the lane discipline on his fairly new car reactivated each time the ignition was switched on .... same as my crash alert thing ....which is a PITA even if it doesn't actually apply the brakes
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: pscocoa on 15 August 2020, 22:18:43
The Volvo V90 has the same lane discipline but very rare I seem to get an issue of unwanted correction. The system does make you use your indicators properly!!
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: pscocoa on 15 August 2020, 22:22:19
What would peoples thoughts be for a cheap runaround that can munch a few miles if necessary and is cheap to run but not a wheezy shopping car?

By cheap I mean less than 2K
By munch miles I mean around 20-25K a year?
Cheap to run would probably mean something under 2.0 Litres and possibly a diesel?

I was thinking along the lines of:-

Astra H 1.6 Petrol or 1.7CDTi (although the seats would need to more supportive than the ones in Mrs VXL V6's Design model)

I have been extremely happy with the Astra 2012 1.6 petrol Auto as a station car/runaround - saves dpf issues on the diesels with short trips

Signum 1.9

Astra G (MK4) 1.6 petrol or 1.7CDTi - I still like these and they are simple to work on and don't suffer many rust issues

318d / 320d - A bit more refinement over the Vauxhall offerings.


Obviously I haven't researched in any great detail, i'm just interested in peoples thoughts.
 

I have been extremely happy with the Astra 2012 SE 1.6 petrol Auto as a station car/runaround - saves dpf issues on the diesels with short trips
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 16 August 2020, 07:42:31
Mr TB, do you have a shark fin, I might be able to lay my hands on a smart rear view mirror and fin with integrated camera
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: TheBoy on 16 August 2020, 09:24:08
Mr TB, do you have a shark fin, I might be able to lay my hands on a smart rear view mirror and fin with integrated camera
Nope, mine is the earliest of the X351 ones, which have no external antennas at all.  Fair play to JLR for designing a car not requiring any aerials, keeping its sleek lines :y, though I suspect it is prone to issues, hence the sharkfins added a couple of years after mine.
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: TheBoy on 16 August 2020, 09:32:24
Saw the blind spot mirror flashing on a Volvo XC90 that was sat alongside me on the motorway. Simple but effective.
I have it on mine, and it is really useful, but I wonder if it slowly gets drivers to pull out without looking over their shoulder, relying on the technology?

I find the passenger side particularly useful for overtaking on the motorway, to see when safe to indicate to get back in a lane - as soon as the light goes out, I can indicate, then move.

As an ex biker, always on the lookout that other drivers have seen me, even when in the car. However, despite many E/S class Mercs having the feature, their drivers ignore it. The amount of gravel rash my car has when I've been at (almost ;) motorway speeds, and I've seen their little red triangle come on, and I think they must be aware I'm there so keep the boot down, only for them to pull out, leaving me with the gravel and shit near the centrral barrier as my bit of road  >:(
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 16 August 2020, 10:24:42
That's self inflicted... ::)

You should know better than to assume that you have been seen, and with a modicum anticipation, you can see that situation coming a mile away.

Highway Codes 122, 124 and, to a greater or lesser degree, 125.

Basically be prepared to give way to avoid an accident, and more importantly, don't put yourself in to a position that might result in one ;)
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 16 August 2020, 11:55:36
Mr TB, do you have a shark fin, I might be able to lay my hands on a smart rear view mirror and fin with integrated camera
Nope, mine is the earliest of the X351 ones, which have no external antennas at all.  Fair play to JLR for designing a car not requiring any aerials, keeping its sleek lines :y, though I suspect it is prone to issues, hence the sharkfins added a couple of years after mine.

Its back on the agenda, my team are doing lots of research regarding that at the moment
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: TheBoy on 16 August 2020, 19:25:45
That's self inflicted... ::)

You should know better than to assume that you have been seen, and with a modicum anticipation, you can see that situation coming a mile away.

Highway Codes 122, 124 and, to a greater or lesser degree, 125.

Basically be prepared to give way to avoid an accident, and more importantly, don't put yourself in to a position that might result in one ;)
Which in itself thus means that all 3/4/5/6 lanes of the motorway should proceed at the same speed. And there should never be an overtake on *any* road, if your average Merc (or VAG for that matter) driver believes that (s)he is superior, and opps everyone else.

I'm afraid, despite huge attempts over the past 25 years to do so, you simply cannot legislate to overcome stupidity.
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Migv6 le Frog Fan on 16 August 2020, 20:53:30
I have never heard of this gadget until now. I imagine it might be very useful in the future if I go blind but still want to be able to drive my car.  :)
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Nick W on 16 August 2020, 21:38:39
That's self inflicted... ::)

You should know better than to assume that you have been seen, and with a modicum anticipation, you can see that situation coming a mile away.

Highway Codes 122, 124 and, to a greater or lesser degree, 125.

Basically be prepared to give way to avoid an accident, and more importantly, don't put yourself in to a position that might result in one ;)
Which in itself thus means that all 3/4/5/6 lanes of the motorway should proceed at the same speed. And there should never be an overtake on *any* road, if your average Merc (or VAG for that matter) driver believes that (s)he is superior, and opps everyone else.

I'm afraid, despite huge attempts over the past 25 years to do so, you simply cannot legislate to overcome stupidity.




Nor should you try, because it really oppss up everything.


And on top of that, the world is full of impatient arseholes. Lots of them have cars.
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 16 August 2020, 21:41:19
That's self inflicted... ::)

You should know better than to assume that you have been seen, and with a modicum anticipation, you can see that situation coming a mile away.

Highway Codes 122, 124 and, to a greater or lesser degree, 125.

Basically be prepared to give way to avoid an accident, and more importantly, don't put yourself in to a position that might result in one ;)
Which in itself thus means that all 3/4/5/6 lanes of the motorway should proceed at the same speed. And there should never be an overtake on *any* road, if your average Merc (or VAG for that matter) driver believes that (s)he is superior, and opps everyone else.

I'm afraid, despite huge attempts over the past 25 years to do so, you simply cannot legislate to overcome stupidity.
Not at all, the point I was trying to make was that you should anticipate stupidity and be prepared for it. Getting all pissy about it is your fault and will achieve eleven tenths of nothing. If other people can't drive, that's up to them. All you can do is try to avoid them and get on with your day.
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: TheBoy on 17 August 2020, 18:15:05
That's self inflicted... ::)

You should know better than to assume that you have been seen, and with a modicum anticipation, you can see that situation coming a mile away.

Highway Codes 122, 124 and, to a greater or lesser degree, 125.

Basically be prepared to give way to avoid an accident, and more importantly, don't put yourself in to a position that might result in one ;)
Which in itself thus means that all 3/4/5/6 lanes of the motorway should proceed at the same speed. And there should never be an overtake on *any* road, if your average Merc (or VAG for that matter) driver believes that (s)he is superior, and opps everyone else.

I'm afraid, despite huge attempts over the past 25 years to do so, you simply cannot legislate to overcome stupidity.
Not at all, the point I was trying to make was that you should anticipate stupidity and be prepared for it. Getting all pissy about it is your fault and will achieve eleven tenths of nothing. If other people can't drive, that's up to them. All you can do is try to avoid them and get on with your day.
And from my biking days, you ensure they have seem you.  With a opps off massive red triangle (as fitted to Mercs) in the mirror, I'd like to think even the most stupid, arrogant, arsehole Merc driver is aware of my presence.


Now if you're say MB drivers are excused from even looking at the mirror when changing lanes, let alone physically looking, then that simply means that such a driver can never be passed, as you have to get alongside to make eye contact, by which time the Lady bits has already swerved into you.


So I fully grasp, understand and have done the defensive driving courses, but that can't lead to increased safety if some really are too thick to waste oxygen on.
Title: Re: Cheap daily runaround car?
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 17 August 2020, 19:33:29
And yet you repeatedly find yourself in the same precarious position...