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Author Topic: Poly sleave for steering idler.  (Read 6175 times)

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chrisgixer

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Re: Poly sleave for steering idler.
« Reply #15 on: 20 February 2014, 23:01:56 »

Apologies Nick, as I seem to have mudied the water somewhat :-[
The front of my car is completely polybushed, with the notable exception of the top mounts. The point I was trying to make, was that it doesn't make the car significantly harsh to drive...

Therefore, if the hard vinyl sleeve in the steering idler were replaced with the same substance I made my diff mounts from, it wouldn't make a noticeable difference to the feel of the steering. Especially as there is no such damping of the pitman arm :y

Hmmm... :-\ I wonder about that... after all there's no such liner on the pitman arm as far as I'm aware :-\

Subjective question, was my car particularly harsh to drive :-\

Two words.

Tyre pressures.r
:P
They're lower than thery might have been ::) , but was referring to the suspension side of things...

Firm but with more travel. Some roll. Or more roll than mine anyway. But yours has self levelling.
Exactly, see above for the reason behind the question :y

Front of mine is buggered ATM, so no point comparing there steering wise. Ride wise, as said.
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05omegav6

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Re: Poly sleave for steering idler.
« Reply #16 on: 20 February 2014, 23:07:42 »

Do you have a spare idler which could be experimented with?
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Marks DTM Calib

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Re: Poly sleave for steering idler.
« Reply #17 on: 21 February 2014, 09:39:17 »

As always, its a compromise between comfort and accuracy. No rubber bushing, would mean very accurate steering, but transmit every single bump through the chassis rail and steering wheel.

Some shock absorption will be needed.

I dissagree, there is no shock absorption via the pitman arm and steering box on the drivers side.

Rubber is only used as its cheap and easy.  :y
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tigers_gonads

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Re: Poly sleave for steering idler.
« Reply #18 on: 21 February 2014, 09:45:35 »

Slightly off topic but i'll probably get a answer quicker here  :)

I've been under the front of mine and had a poke around.
I'm happy that all rubber bits are how they should be BUT they is quite a bit of slop in the steering while straight ahead.
Can this be adjusted in anyway at the ( I presume ) steering box ?
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Marks DTM Calib

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Re: Poly sleave for steering idler.
« Reply #19 on: 21 February 2014, 09:53:45 »

With the engine off then that is correct with a re-circ ball steering box setup
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tigers_gonads

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Re: Poly sleave for steering idler.
« Reply #20 on: 21 February 2014, 10:04:30 »

With the engine off then that is correct with a re-circ ball steering box setup


Okay, cheers Mark
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chrisgixer

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Re: Poly sleave for steering idler.
« Reply #21 on: 21 February 2014, 14:52:25 »

As always, its a compromise between comfort and accuracy. No rubber bushing, would mean very accurate steering, but transmit every single bump through the chassis rail and steering wheel.

Some shock absorption will be needed.

I dissagree, there is no shock absorption via the pitman arm and steering box on the drivers side.

Rubber is only used as its cheap and easy.  :y

Not convinced, given the "flap" action on the idler,  over bumps with the weight of the steering arm and the pas side road wheel gyroscopic inertia.
I'm thinking dead ahead/stearing stright, the slightest play and it will knock through the steering.

In corners I'd expect any play to be taken up. But dead ahead where there's no pressure on it the forces are purely vertical/up and down. Needle rollers aren't good in applications such as suspension and steering where the vast majority of the time is spent at or near normal ride height or, as in this case, steering dead ahead. As all the wear is consentated in one place on the bearing surface. Bit like top mount bearings. I've seen them pitted, as on bikes with rising rate rear suspension linkages. After 5000 miles, grab the rear tail unit and lift. There's guaranteed to be at least 5 mill of play. That's fine on a bike where most of the time the suspension is loaded. Unless your over the mountain at cadwell, then it knocks on landing.

But on a car where it's unloaded a good deal of the time, IMO, any play will resonate to the driver.

I'm thinking along the lines of a table tennis bat type material. If the right thickness and consistency can be found. Cut to length, roll into a tube, press the brass insert in....

Note to self, stop thinking aloud ;D
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Marks DTM Calib

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Re: Poly sleave for steering idler.
« Reply #22 on: 21 February 2014, 15:01:12 »

I think what your missing is that yes, the passenger side might have any transmitted knock reduced thanks to the flex in the bush but, consider the drivers side, that has none removed.

So given that whats ok for the goose is good for the gander, I see no issue with changing from rubber on the idler as it can only get as bas as the already ok drivers side.

I can see a bush machined fom oil impregnated Nylon 7 working pretty dam well
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biggriffin

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Re: Poly sleave for steering idler.
« Reply #24 on: 21 February 2014, 15:31:12 »

All this trying to stiffen up the car only leads to one thing stress fractures,and cracked turrets.
i know the manta and the omega are different,so are escorts and mantas. My last two mantas had grA tarmac suspension, rose jointed arb. When i stopped driving it,and looked at probably, all turrets cracked,chassis rails cracking,and rear sills cracked.
should have seam welded it.

Omegas are 10+ years old,shells are tired and soft,go to stiff and fracture's will occur,unless you start seaming,and fitting a cage.
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chrisgixer

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Re: Poly sleave for steering idler.
« Reply #25 on: 21 February 2014, 15:37:43 »

I'd go with Nylon, I think.

Here's the original rubber innards. Note the dimples.


But I really don't see a big inanimate lump like a stearing box behaving like a spindly arm with a pivot under the same vibration. But I guess we'll see.
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05omegav6

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Re: Poly sleave for steering idler.
« Reply #26 on: 21 February 2014, 15:43:19 »

Dimples only there to force an interference fit, whilst allowing large moulding tolerances :-\

Reassemble without the sleeve, suitably spaced with summat to give location, fill with resin mix, allow to set and trim excess as required :y

Unless the sleeve allows rotation of the arm/bush... :-\
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Kevin Wood

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Re: Poly sleave for steering idler.
« Reply #27 on: 21 February 2014, 15:45:23 »

Surely 10 minutes on a lathe would be easier than moulding, and you could be sure that it's not off-centre then, too?
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Marks DTM Calib

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Re: Poly sleave for steering idler.
« Reply #28 on: 21 February 2014, 15:49:00 »

But I really don't see a big inanimate lump like a stearing box behaving like a spindly arm with a pivot under the same vibration. But I guess we'll see.

Exactly, what I am saying is that the big inanimate lump that is the steering box is currently transmitting every vibration going from the drivers side through the chassis and setup and hence using an alternative material on the idler will make bog all difference.  :y
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Marks DTM Calib

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Re: Poly sleave for steering idler.
« Reply #29 on: 21 February 2014, 15:50:27 »

All this trying to stiffen up the car only leads to one thing stress fractures,and cracked turrets.
i know the manta and the omega are different,so are escorts and mantas. My last two mantas had grA tarmac suspension, rose jointed arb. When i stopped driving it,and looked at probably, all turrets cracked,chassis rails cracking,and rear sills cracked.
should have seam welded it.

Omegas are 10+ years old,shells are tired and soft,go to stiff and fracture's will occur,unless you start seaming,and fitting a cage.

In this case its not one of trying to stiffen things because a good quality new idler has pretty much no give in it, its more the fact we are trying to find an alternative which wont wear and fail nearly as quickly  :y
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