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Author Topic: Polybushing  (Read 1968 times)

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mandula

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Re: Polybushing
« Reply #30 on: 24 September 2017, 08:27:03 »

Delete..
« Last Edit: 24 September 2017, 08:29:56 by mandula »
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mandula

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Re: Polybushing
« Reply #31 on: 24 September 2017, 08:28:31 »



Therefore only thing that propably causes arm to break from rear bushing is that rear bush is replaced with too hard bush that wont allow enough movement and/or shitty quality arm that would break anyway with original bushing and enought time and harsh ride.


The reason is because the rear poly bushes that have been tried previously are designed to work like the front ones; where the arm rotates around the inner metal sleeve. But the rear bushes work in a different plane - they are more of a joint - and so transfer all of the force(from a heavy car, with large wheels) directly into a part of the wishbone that isn't designed to flex in that way. That is guaranteed to cause exactly the failure that Al's pictures show. Attempting to strengthen the wishbone(which don't fail there when correctly equipped) is a dangerous bodge. The Omega specific bushes mentioned in this thread look much more like the OE rubber ones, and hopefully won't cause such wishbone failures. They're cheap enough that I'm tempted to buy a pair to evaluate whether I am prepared to use them.

Just what I'm trying to say.

http://www.strongflex.eu/en/omega-b-94-99/1583-131806a-front-lower-wishbone-rear-bush-sport-5902553518580.html

This is the bush Im using, it is one piece of PUR material and one separate central metal tube and needs to be bushed through arm, it is shaped and shoft enough to operate as a joint.
« Last Edit: 24 September 2017, 08:33:36 by mandula »
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Polybushing
« Reply #32 on: 24 September 2017, 08:29:38 »

That picture doesn't give any real/useful detail.

Any pictures of it fitted to the wishbone and also fitted to the car?
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mandula

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Re: Polybushing
« Reply #33 on: 24 September 2017, 08:34:58 »

That picture doesn't give any real/useful detail.

Any pictures of it fitted to the wishbone and also fitted to the car?

I can take a pic next time Im under the car, if I dont find any from internet.
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Polybushing
« Reply #34 on: 24 September 2017, 08:50:53 »

That picture doesn't give any real/useful detail.

Any pictures of it fitted to the wishbone and also fitted to the car?

I can take a pic next time Im under the car, if I dont find any from internet.
It isn't clear from that picture how the arm is supported... looks like a void around the centre which allows the arm movement. This would imply that the arm isn't supported against any horizontal shocks or loads such as kerbs/emergency braking. Also, if it relies on the wider top and bottom circumferences to prevent vertical movement over the rear bolt, then it will be too tight to allow the arm to pivot without stressing it. Likewise if it uses the chamfer to support the ash against horizontal loading :-\
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Polybushing
« Reply #35 on: 24 September 2017, 09:01:10 »

If the arm is adequately supported to be driven with control, then it will stress the arm to breaking point.

If it isn't adequately support in order to allow normal arm movement, then from its shape I would suggest that the arm will eventually destroy the bush... resulting in the arm becoming unsupported. What happens when this occurs depends on speed/cornering/suspension loadings but expect significant damage as control vanishes.

I was lucky with mine. The brakes were perfectly balanced and the top mount absorbed the lateral loading from the weight and momentum of the car riding over the failed arm. The road was also fortunately empty as I used both lanes to stop.

How many miles/km have you done on your bushes and have you removed them to inspect them? Those are pictures I would also like to see...
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Jezza

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Re: Polybushing
« Reply #36 on: 24 September 2017, 10:12:05 »

I had my Strongflex rear bushes fitted yesterday because the originals were fubar. I already had the Powerflex front ones and with both front and rear fitted I must say it's a huge difference! I had a long drive back home from my mechanic's place and it was a lot better than the drive there I must say. My mechanic also has had poly's front & rear for three years and has never had any issues with them. And he drives a lot faster than I ever do, ergo harder braking....
I'll try and get some pics up later.
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mandula

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Re: Polybushing
« Reply #37 on: 25 September 2017, 05:42:32 »

I think Doctor Gollum is seeking problems where there is not any.

- Bush is perfectly supported for any forces that are directed to it. It is one mold piece and needed to be forced through arm and is very tight fit to arm. Will not pop off, because of tight fit to arm and also flanges of attaching points are holding polybush in place.

- On emergency braking or cornering, there is more bushing material (cross section area) taking the force than on original rubber bush. I can not think any force directed to arm that original rubber bushing could handle but this polybush could not. It is more likely that rubber bush would tear up before this polybush.

- Movement of arm is ensured, because material is soft enough and bushing is shaped to allow movement. This is the thing that will break the arm if movement is prevented because of too hard material and/or shape of bushing. Nothing else, if arm is as good quality as it should.

- Bushing is molded to one piece PUR so it will not tear apart in any circumstances and also polybushes are proven to be more durable than rubber bushes. More likely arm will destroy original rubber bushing than poly bushing.

- I've seen old rear rubber bushing, teared little bit as it normally does when it ages. That is much more security risk that this polybushing. And people are driving with bad condition rubber bushes many thousands of kilometers still with no arms to tear apart themselves or bushing.

I've been driven with this current setting about 25000 km. Last MOT was two months ago with no notes and week ago I was under the car checking for idler arm condition and checked arms (in place) but it was possible to see that both arms were OK (no cracks or bends).

I do like to drive corners fast (because current settings allow this with no trouble) and also I often need to drive un-coated roads (gravel roads) with big potholes so I could say arms are driven in very harsh conditions and i believe something would been shoving by now if there's any problems with that rear polybushings.
« Last Edit: 25 September 2017, 05:58:37 by mandula »
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mandula

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Re: Polybushing
« Reply #38 on: 25 September 2017, 05:58:50 »

Double deleted.
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Muroman

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Re: Polybushing
« Reply #39 on: 01 October 2017, 22:46:15 »

Both rear and front bushings installed to wishbone. Strongflex yellow (sport)
Didn't hammer or heat while taking old ones off only used saw. Wishbones were in good condition as changed just last year.

Result was good, steering changed to more precise. We'll see in future what happens.
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Vega

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Re: Polybushing
« Reply #40 on: 02 October 2017, 11:06:01 »

I am running them now for about 15.000 Km.

Powerflex at the front.
Strongflex at the rear.

No problems so far, not even on the German highways  ;D or the Italian Dolomites.  :)
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B-Buster

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Re: Polybushing
« Reply #41 on: 02 October 2017, 23:21:45 »

Like Vega I am running the Powerflex + Strongflex Yellow combination and so far no complaints. I like the design of the Strongflex better as these don't have the metal ring, so I assume it does not stress the wishbone as much as some of the other designs I have seen.

From Powerflex front bushings + new OEM rear bushings (for +/- 30k km's) to the current setup (+/- 8k km's) has proven to be a very great upgrade. The car feels much more stable in corners and especially at roundabouts the handling is so much better. Also with the Brembo brakes it is also more stable if those are put to the test.

I would advice to be smart with the wishbones that are being used, I've seen PU mods being put in pretty rusty arms.. not the best idea.
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Andy A

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Re: Polybushing
« Reply #42 on: 11 May 2018, 19:01:28 »

Both rear and front bushings installed to wishbone. Strongflex yellow (sport)
Didn't hammer or heat while taking old ones off only used saw. Wishbones were in good condition as changed just last year.

Result was good, steering changed to more precise. We'll see in future what happens.

What wishbone make did you put in?
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mandula

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Re: Polybushing
« Reply #43 on: 14 May 2018, 06:43:50 »

Last week replaced strut mounts + bearings and ball joints so was able to check wishbones. No cracks or other faults found, all good with both front and rear polybushings fitted.
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Andy A

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Re: Polybushing
« Reply #44 on: 14 May 2018, 09:13:53 »

Last week replaced strut mounts + bearings and ball joints so was able to check wishbones. No cracks or other faults found, all good with both front and rear polybushings fitted.

Good to here that all is still good.  :y How long have you had them fitted?

Is this still correct, you have Powerflex in the front and Strongflex yellow for the back bush of the wishbone?

What make of wishbone did you use?

Thanks
« Last Edit: 14 May 2018, 09:18:43 by Andy A »
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