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Author Topic: Misfire  (Read 1820 times)

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ajsphead

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Re: Misfire
« Reply #15 on: 21 February 2018, 08:43:18 »

Being positive, if the pump unit had failed mechanically it most likely wouldn't work at all. If the failure is electrical it could be intermittent but can be fixed by a diesel pump/Bosch specialist, there was a recent thread with this type of problem. Often DTis are scrapped with pump failure which is no more than a broken wire or soldered joint.

Even so, repair is likely to be way less expensive than replacement. My bet is still a flow problem with the fault at the back end of the car rather than the front.
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Ray Austin

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Re: Misfire
« Reply #16 on: 22 February 2018, 18:13:16 »

Car has been with garage for 2 days they cant find anything wrong with it starts fine. So took it out to try and get it to play-up did about 6 miles and just as we got on the bypass it died got it a layby left it 10 minutes got it to the next island it  missed a few times but did not want it to go onto the island in case it died again and caused traffic chaos. Left it 20 minutes got it restarted  and drove back to garage.
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Ray Austin

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Re: Misfire
« Reply #17 on: 22 February 2018, 18:51:24 »

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ajsphead

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Re: Misfire
« Reply #18 on: 22 February 2018, 20:08:13 »

Happy to bow to the wisdom of others but that really sounds like fuel starvation to me. The pump controls the delivery of the fuel and engine timing and you have both. I seems to me that it misfires after you rev it which is what makes me think starvation. I assume the mechanics have checked the fuel pipes and strainer at the tank end and pronounced them all clean and free from debris? If not can I suggest they look there, if so what about checking fuel pressure at the injectors. What about reading live data to rule out sensor issues as you are driving along. All simple stuff really and a cheap fix if that's where the problem is.

The few instances of pump failure I have encountered are just that, failure.
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Ray Austin

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Re: Misfire
« Reply #19 on: 01 March 2018, 14:31:06 »

It was with the garage for a week, they could not really find anything wrong with it they moved the crankshaft sensor cable as it was rubbing up against a block and a water hose. They were saying that they had a corsa in that had a misfire and they came to the conclusion that it was the way the cable was routed that it was picking up a false reading. They drove it around and could not get it to misfire at all. We collected it put some more diesel in it and as we drove away it played up for a couple of seconds then settled down. At home took out the sender unit in the fuel tank and cleaned out the filter which had some bits in it but it was not to bad.

Just have to try it now that the problem with intermittent faults. The garage have not charged us but we have said we will come to some arrangement if it is solved.
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Automaticman

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Re: Misfire
« Reply #20 on: 01 March 2018, 19:53:07 »

I have a similar tedious fault on my 306 Roadster, most vexing  :-\
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ajsphead

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Re: Misfire
« Reply #21 on: 01 March 2018, 20:52:08 »

It was with the garage for a week, they could not really find anything wrong with it they moved the crankshaft sensor cable as it was rubbing up against a block and a water hose. They were saying that they had a corsa in that had a misfire and they came to the conclusion that it was the way the cable was routed that it was picking up a false reading. They drove it around and could not get it to misfire at all. We collected it put some more diesel in it and as we drove away it played up for a couple of seconds then settled down. At home took out the sender unit in the fuel tank and cleaned out the filter which had some bits in it but it was not to bad.

Just have to try it now that the problem with intermittent faults. The garage have not charged us but we have said we will come to some arrangement if it is solved.

Always best to rule out the simple stuff first. Hope it's a permanent fix. Just a matter of using it to get the confidence back that it's now fine. Assume you also blew back down the pipes to the tank just to make sure they are clear too.
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Ray Austin

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Re: Misfire
« Reply #22 on: 04 March 2018, 17:54:24 »

It died again has been ok for a few days. Took it on the local bypass got to 80 and then it started to play up. Going to replace the crankshaft is there a camshaft sensor cant seem to find any info. Wish haynes did a manuel for it.

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ajsphead

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Re: Misfire
« Reply #23 on: 05 March 2018, 07:23:47 »

Yes, it does have a cam sensor. Haynes manual is for the Vectra C.
Failing sensors should give error codes. I assume when it plays up there's no flashing EML light, however brief?
How methodical were the garage that looked at it. Section by section, system by system is the only way you'll find a seemingly random problem.
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Ray Austin

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Re: Misfire
« Reply #24 on: 05 March 2018, 08:23:56 »

This car is now getting on my nerves going to try some petrol and a match.

A few months back we cleared out the part where the air intact is for the heater it gets full of leaves etc it has a vent at the bottom just put a hose pipe in to it to flush it away (cant get your hand in) that may be where to water came from that was running onto the multiplug on the crankshaft sensor. It was running from the scuttle onto the multiplug that is at the point that we started getting trouble with the car.

I just don't know whether that was the problem when it played up yesterday the  EML light did come on.
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Kevin Wood

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Re: Misfire
« Reply #25 on: 05 March 2018, 09:37:02 »

If the EML came on then you need to get the codes read to find out what it's complaining about. :y
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Ray Austin

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Re: Misfire
« Reply #26 on: 05 March 2018, 13:15:21 »

If the EML came on then you need to get the codes read to find out what it's complaining about. :y
P1220 START OF INJECTOR CONTROL. P1345 ROTARY ANGLE SENSOR.


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ajsphead

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Re: Misfire
« Reply #27 on: 05 March 2018, 20:25:04 »

These are not uncommon combined fault codes on DTi engines. I've done a bit of digging and come up with the following from collected wisdom.

"both of those codes refer indirectly to the pump speed the p1345 is the one that will stop the engine, p1220 will eventually but is more to do with the actual and desired injection quantity, and the pump speed, if you have swapped the pump from another vehicle and the fault is still there i would expect it to be a wireing [sic] fault my hunch would be one of the connectors onto the pump i think you would have to do a drag test on each of the connectors many holes to see if one or more has spread, bit of a bugger but the only way forward i think"

"Maybe, could also have been dirty connects on that electrical connector for the fuel pump!"

"The pump camshaft speed sensor is the small sensor thats attached to the pump control unit via a small ribbon, this sensor detects the pump speed by using a sensor wheel that is attached to the pumps main shaft, if this wheel becomes loose or broken then the pump may need to be replaced BUT the sensor could be faulty and sending a bad signal. Replaced sensor, unsoldered from my edc and replaced with one from a breakers pump edc" - needs a diesel injection specialist to sort out unless you're good with a soldering iron.

"Hi this whole state of affairs, points to lack of fuel, either the injector pump can not suck the fuel through or there is a restriction. You could try a few cheap options first, replace the small valve on the return pipe from the injection pump. The fuel inlet pipe is 17MM the outlet/return pipe is 19mm. keep your vectra above 10L, change the fuel filter top cap for cracks, (you get it separately from the whole unit), check the hose from the fuel filter to injection pumps for air leaks"

"Although most people seem to think that the fuel pump was on the way out and it might well have been, but where the crank sensor went in to the bottom of the engine, the contact where the sensor is was extremely dirty and clogged with oil/greasy black crap. So I think because of how dirty it was down there, the sensor was probably not working correctly and would cut the engine out"

"For anyone else with this code I think I have fixed the problem now. I was on the verge of getting replacement pump and paying to get it fitted but didn't in the end. I didn't want to spend the money on a fault where it might be something as its alot to spend. In the end I think there was a blockage in the sender unit. I read about there being a sort of plastic mesh on the bottom and that gets all blocked up so the fuel pump can't get the fuel quick enough.
Im yet to take mine out but I lifted the seat and disconnected the pipes and blew down them into the tank. One of them took alot of blowing before I could hear bubbles in the tank. So I had a bit of a blockage in the one pipe. 

Also the code description is a bit of a giveaway - P1220 injection timing control Insufficent/excessive flow detected"

Only one of these things is remotely expensive, but I still want to know what the mechanic who looked at it actually checked.

Without ruling some things in or out it's a bit difficult to know where to direct you.



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Ray Austin

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Re: Misfire
« Reply #28 on: 07 March 2018, 21:20:14 »

We replaced the crankshaft sensor cost 24.00 done 45 trouble free miles then it starts again, had enough now going to scrap it.

In those 45 mile ran perfect mix of driving on the local dual carriageway and local roads so was able to give it a good test.
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ronnyd

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Re: Misfire
« Reply #29 on: 08 March 2018, 12:03:45 »

That crankshaft sensor sounded a bit cheap. Was it a genuine VX one from a dealer that you got yourself? After market ones are very hit and miss.
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