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Author Topic: Tyres  (Read 1594 times)

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Automaticman

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Re: Tyres
« Reply #1 on: 27 February 2018, 18:31:28 »

That's cheap even adding fitting costs to the price. :y

But I am the wrong one to advise as I always buy the best top branded tyres I can afford and that policy has done me proud for decades.

Buying these from Ebay would also be a problem for me :P
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Re: Tyres
« Reply #2 on: 27 February 2018, 18:32:45 »

Tyres and peoples requirements are a very personal thing.

I personally insist that they have some element of grip in wet and dry, so would only consider ever consider A rated wet grip.

Others feel as long as its black and round, that meets all criteria.
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Re: Tyres
« Reply #3 on: 27 February 2018, 18:41:31 »

If you are looking for budget tyres for an Omega (ie something to get you through an MOT) then something like Nexen CP641 would do.

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Re: Tyres
« Reply #4 on: 27 February 2018, 19:10:03 »

It has a long MOT done 3 weeks ago, but the tyres are near the wear indicators and the slimy dealer wasn't going to give me a kind look never mind new tyres, I just merely want to know what people think about tyres that are not overpriced which the majority of the big established brands are, I worked for National Tyres many years ago and it was a real eye opener I can tell you !
I believe budget tyres are not all bad, because of the internet and more competition they can be manufactured and sold at lower prices, obviously there are so many makes hence my query, best tyres I ever purchased were Stomil and they were budget many years ago, they were still on the Volvo when I sold it after 4 years and had hardly worn and gripped and handled well.......
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Re: Tyres
« Reply #5 on: 27 February 2018, 19:24:28 »

Generally, the budget ones have a massive difference between wet and dry performance, and that can catch you out.


The only one I would categorically tell you not to use is the Autogrip FS10(something), as these are truly lethal.

I have experience of CP641 tthat VXL V6 suggested, and agree with him, but would add they can aquaplane worse than premium type tyres

Nexen N6000 offer mid range grip, but an excellent ride for cruising, and good straight line stability.

Kuhmo KU3(x) offer pretty good grip, but no feedback, so if being spirited, never quite sure when they will put you in a ditch.

Most of the current Dunlop SportMaxx variants offer reasonable performance, but tend to fall off a cliff at around 3mm

Falken tend, on the Omega, to have near dangerous (lack of) straight line stability

Some here have had good results with GY F1 Assym2, but I found they offered midrange grip at premium prices. I also had 4 failures out of the 6 I had.

I had awful grip and wear problems with Conti SC5 (like I trashed the fronts in 3k)

Avon ZZ5 lasted me 4k on the rear, midrange level grip


I have had a LOT of tyres, and driven lots and lots of members' cars, so have a reasonable grasp of what works on the Omega...   ...although to me grip is everything.


I personally use Michelin Pilot Sport 4 on my remaining Omega now...  ...with the most recent pair going on a couple of weeks back.
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VXL V6

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Re: Tyres
« Reply #6 on: 27 February 2018, 19:33:44 »

Thing is, Omega is a heavy, RWD and quite powerful (for the time) car and any tyre that falls into the budget (and that pointless midrange tag) usually wont work well in all departments.

As per TheBoy I tend to use well proven (on here) tyres on mine which currently means Michelin Pilot Super Sport 4's in the drier months (Previously used various Dunlop's which have steadily been getting worse with each new version) and at the moment Uniroyal Rainsport 3's which I put on as an experiment for the wetter months (which this year seem to have turned to snowier months for a change!), this vehicle does about 30 - 40K a year

One car is running 18" wheels and as I was spending money on bigger brakes and wheels I went for Avon tyres to keep in my depleting budget! These have been good although I've not done many miles on them to be fair as the car isn't used in the winter.
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Re: Tyres
« Reply #7 on: 27 February 2018, 19:36:18 »

Michelin Pilot Super Sport 4's
Michelin Pilot Super Sport
or
Michelin Pilot Sport 4

I don't think there is a Michelin Pilot Super Sport 4 ;)
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Re: Tyres
« Reply #8 on: 27 February 2018, 20:19:19 »

It would seem that the Michelins are summer tyres, I really need all season, any recommendations please ?
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Re: Tyres
« Reply #9 on: 27 February 2018, 20:28:45 »

Someone’s amazing tyre will be next mans ditch finder, tyre reviews are fairly pointless. Too many variables, driving style, suspension setup, type of commute power output etc. 

Just buy best ones you can with your budget.

Michelin do all season not just summer, no experiance:

https://m.michelin.co.uk/all-weather-tyre-range
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Re: Tyres
« Reply #10 on: 27 February 2018, 21:22:02 »

Michelin Pilot Super Sport 4's
Michelin Pilot Super Sport
or
Michelin Pilot Sport 4

I don't think there is a Michelin Pilot Super Sport 4 ;)

Ah yes Pilot Sport 4! Do like those tyres, better than the later Dunlops we've used
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Re: Tyres
« Reply #11 on: 27 February 2018, 21:46:51 »

Michelin Pilot Super Sport 4's
Michelin Pilot Super Sport
or
Michelin Pilot Sport 4

I don't think there is a Michelin Pilot Super Sport 4 ;)

There is also the Michelin Pilot Sport 4s which is a replacement for the outgoing MPSS
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Re: Tyres
« Reply #12 on: 28 February 2018, 07:35:06 »

Or if you can, 1 set of nice summer tyres on refurbed wheels and 1 set of winter tyres on old slightly scabby ones.

Even though I live in the South of England,  where the house is makes it a very good idea to have plenty of grip up and down hills. Even with 2mm of snow, it's the ice from the frozen stream underneath that'll get you and the protruding rock is nicely placed to finish the car off.
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Re: Tyres
« Reply #13 on: 28 February 2018, 07:43:54 »

I thought tyre threads were banned on here ?  ;D ;D

If you drive in a spirited manner  like TB & one or two others on here  . . then you need something decent  . . . & I wholeheartedly agree . . .BUT

If you drive in a more sedate manner , like me  :-[    you could do a lot worse than Accellera's

The Alphas are getting harder to get now  but the newer P1's  are decent IMO Around £50 a corner fitted  . . .just my opinion mind  . . .others will probably slaughter them  ;D ;D ;D 

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Re: Tyres
« Reply #14 on: 28 February 2018, 09:44:17 »

Have you considered looking at a slightly different tyre size?

I'm not saying to do this, but it is something you may consider.

Type prices seem to be based on how popular that size is. As such going from 235 to 225 or 245 can actually make the tyres cheaper. The same is true of the profile rating change 45 to 40 or 50 and it may make branded tyres quite a bit cheaper.

A couple of points to be aware of when doing this:-
1. If you don't change all four at once and just do a pair, ABS & TC are going to get upset at you, also you must have the same size on the 'axle'.
2. This will change you speedo. You can punch your sizes into https://www.carbibles.com/calculators/ and it will tell you the 'corrected' value. Unless you jump the sizes massively, the difference will be minimal.
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Re: Tyres
« Reply #15 on: 28 February 2018, 09:55:03 »

also check first as not all insurance companies allow modified cars
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Re: Tyres
« Reply #16 on: 28 February 2018, 10:22:01 »

Type prices seem to be based on how popular that size is. As such going from 235 to 225 or 245 can actually make the tyres cheaper. The same is true of the profile rating change 45 to 40 or 50 and it may make branded tyres quite a bit cheaper.

A couple of points to be aware of when doing this:-
1. If you don't change all four at once and just do a pair, ABS & TC are going to get upset at you, also you must have the same size on the 'axle'.
2. This will change you speedo. You can punch your sizes into https://www.carbibles.com/calculators/ and it will tell you the 'corrected' value. Unless you jump the sizes massively, the difference will be minimal.

and also tell your insurance, you are using an incorrect tyre size  :y
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Re: Tyres
« Reply #17 on: 28 February 2018, 10:35:15 »

Well you did not get any answers on Aoteli tyres. They are cheap I wonder how old they are maybe old stock they want rid of.I fit kuhmo which have been ok for me and a reasonable price.
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Re: Tyres
« Reply #18 on: 28 February 2018, 17:59:33 »

It would seem that the Michelins are summer tyres, I really need all season, any recommendations please ?
In UK temperatures, I've had no issues with most premium tyres I've had, including the PS4's that the Omega is currently shod with.

We don't really get bad weather here in the UK...
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Re: Tyres
« Reply #19 on: 28 February 2018, 18:01:16 »

Have you considered looking at a slightly different tyre size?

I'm not saying to do this, but it is something you may consider.

Type prices seem to be based on how popular that size is. As such going from 235 to 225 or 245 can actually make the tyres cheaper. The same is true of the profile rating change 45 to 40 or 50 and it may make branded tyres quite a bit cheaper.

A couple of points to be aware of when doing this:-
1. If you don't change all four at once and just do a pair, ABS & TC are going to get upset at you, also you must have the same size on the 'axle'.
2. This will change you speedo. You can punch your sizes into https://www.carbibles.com/calculators/ and it will tell you the 'corrected' value. Unless you jump the sizes massively, the difference will be minimal.
As others have said, you need to inform your insurance of this, as its non standard, that invalidates your insurance.

You can probably (just) get away with standard Omega sizes, but not anything else.
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Kevin Wood

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Re: Tyres
« Reply #20 on: 28 February 2018, 18:08:48 »

It would seem that the Michelins are summer tyres, I really need all season, any recommendations please ?
In UK temperatures, I've had no issues with most premium tyres I've had, including the PS4's that the Omega is currently shod with.

We don't really get bad weather here in the UK...

That's the thing. If you only buy tyres that have a reasonable level of grip in the first place, they will be soft enough not to get too bad in cold weather. If you buy "round and black" or granite compound everlasting ECO-sh1te, they'll go from bad to downright dangerous to unusable.
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Re: Tyres
« Reply #21 on: 01 March 2018, 20:07:48 »

Well I had 2 cheap tyres fitted today on the fronts which incidentally didn't have the locking nuts on which is good as I don't have the key, by AD Tyres (Neston) and a free sausage egg and bacon sarnie for £125 all in  :)
Adrian said they are good for about 6k so should last me a couple of years the way we drive (sedately)
Getting the rears done in the summer, they do have the spinning lock nuts on so a bit of a pita to remove without some drilling/chiselling and he said he will then put the fronts to the rear to even out the wear, very decent bloke, oh and his awesome 23 year old daughter did the fitting, and took the payment  :P
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Re: Tyres
« Reply #22 on: 01 March 2018, 20:14:43 »

Yep, always worth putting new tyres on the front anyway as they tend to tramline less in the first half of their lifetime. :y
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Re: Tyres
« Reply #23 on: 01 March 2018, 23:02:19 »

Yep, always worth putting new tyres on the front anyway as they tend to tramline less in the first half of their lifetime. :y

Though I agree with you, that's not the recommendation of the likes of Michelin .....

https://www.michelin.co.uk/tyres/learn-share/care-guide/ten-tyre-care-tips
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Re: Tyres
« Reply #24 on: 02 March 2018, 07:44:52 »

I once saw it on a programme[could've been Top Gear]many years ago and they said the ideal was to fit 4 tyres at the same time[obviously that's unlikely to happen]second best was to fit a pair of tyres in which instance the new ones should be fitted to the undriven wheels-i.e.the fronts on an Omega-so that the extra grip provided by the newer rubber couldn't overcome the grip provided by the older rubber.
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Re: Tyres
« Reply #25 on: 02 March 2018, 08:42:36 »

oh and his awesome 23 year old daughter did the fitting, and took the payment  :P

* aaronjb looks up how far it is to Neston ;D
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Re: Tyres
« Reply #26 on: 02 March 2018, 09:57:35 »

Yep, always worth putting new tyres on the front anyway as they tend to tramline less in the first half of their lifetime. :y

Though I agree with you, that's not the recommendation of the likes of Michelin .....

https://www.michelin.co.uk/tyres/learn-share/care-guide/ten-tyre-care-tips

I think that's based on the assumption that the possibility of oversteer needs to be avoided at all costs, since a "modern" driver will immediately crash if it happens. ;D Probably fair enough, but I've never had my Omega get tail happy with the more worn tyres on the rear. As long as you change the rears at a sensible level of wear, I find that the best policy for an Omega;)
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Re: Tyres
« Reply #27 on: 02 March 2018, 10:02:55 »

oh and his awesome 23 year old daughter did the fitting, and took the payment  :P

* aaronjb looks up how far it is to Neston ;D

241 miles from me, so I'll let you have her, Aaron!

Ron.
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Re: Tyres
« Reply #28 on: 02 March 2018, 17:54:46 »

150 for him Ron. ;)
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Re: Tyres
« Reply #29 on: 02 March 2018, 18:20:45 »

Then he will have to stay for breakfast.....

Ron.
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Re: Tyres
« Reply #30 on: 02 March 2018, 19:22:25 »

An offer he couldn,t refuse. :y
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Re: Tyres
« Reply #31 on: 04 March 2018, 00:52:27 »


We don't really get bad weather here in the UK...

Really?
;D ;D ;D ;D
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Re: Tyres
« Reply #32 on: 04 March 2018, 09:23:59 »


We don't really get bad weather here in the UK...

Really?
;D ;D ;D ;D
I am racking my brains the last time we had what I'd class bad (in reference to winter tyres) weather here in Blighty.  I reckon it was about 10 or more years ago when we were my outside thermometer was reading -18C, and our water meters kept freezing up.

Obviously, some parts of the country suffered a lot of flooding 2 or 3 years back, but winter tyres wouldn't have helped there.


So I stand by my comments that we do not have enough bad weather here that means a quality summer tyre isn't able to cope.


I bought some snow chains about 10yrs ago for the Omega. So far, the only benefit I can see from them is the extra weight with them in the boot over the rear axle.  Never fitted, apart from to see how to fit them.
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Re: Tyres
« Reply #33 on: 04 March 2018, 09:27:36 »


We don't really get bad weather here in the UK...

Really?
;D ;D ;D ;D
And to back it up, look how mainstream media have got excited over this cold snap for the past few days, where, to be honest, the only issue has been the wind causing drifts, not the amount of snowfall.

Christ, we had more in early December.
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Re: Tyres
« Reply #34 on: 05 March 2018, 13:18:41 »

Did anyone check their tyre pressures during the cold weather.I thought my power steering had failed but found that my front tyres were down to 20 psi I normally have them at 26 psi.I have never noticed this before perhaps our friends in Finland will have an opinion.
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Re: Tyres
« Reply #35 on: 05 March 2018, 13:23:15 »

Did anyone check their tyre pressures during the cold weather.I thought my power steering had failed but found that my front tyres were down to 20 psi I normally have them at 26 psi.I have never noticed this before perhaps our friends in Finland will have an opinion.

My TPMS was bleating quite a lot during the cold spell, over 6 psi low in all 4 tyres, until I'd driven about 10-15 miles when they were back to normal-ish....

HUGE difference in pressure when the tyre temp is -6 C to when it is at +7 C, and in the summer they get very much warmer !! It's only since i got the TPMS that I realised just how much the pressures change with temperature ... I "knew" it in the back of my mind .. but had never given it much notice !!

:)
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Re: Tyres
« Reply #36 on: 05 March 2018, 13:27:40 »

I would have thought it would be the other way around ? Warmer = expanded, so lower pressures.  :-\
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Re: Tyres
« Reply #37 on: 05 March 2018, 13:51:39 »

I would have thought it would be the other way around ? Warmer = expanded, so lower pressures.  :-\
Nah, more volume in a given space=higher pressure  ;)
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Re: Tyres
« Reply #38 on: 05 March 2018, 14:04:07 »

Did anyone check their tyre pressures during the cold weather.I thought my power steering had failed but found that my front tyres were down to 20 psi I normally have them at 26 psi.I have never noticed this before perhaps our friends in Finland will have an opinion.

My TPMS was bleating quite a lot during the cold spell, over 6 psi low in all 4 tyres, until I'd driven about 10-15 miles when they were back to normal-ish....

HUGE difference in pressure when the tyre temp is -6 C to when it is at +7 C, and in the summer they get very much warmer !! It's only since i got the TPMS that I realised just how much the pressures change with temperature ... I "knew" it in the back of my mind .. but had never given it much notice !!

:)

Interesting. On the other hand, you probably want to be running lower pressures when it's that cold to get a bit of heat into the tyres and provide better grip on snow and ice, so it's perhaps just nature working in our favour?
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Re: Tyres
« Reply #39 on: 05 March 2018, 14:28:23 »

A softer tyre would provide a marginally greater footprint...

One of those things that can easily be overthought...
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Re: Tyres
« Reply #40 on: 05 March 2018, 15:08:00 »

I would have thought it would be the other way around ? Warmer = expanded, so lower pressures.  :-\

Nope .. tyre changes size by very little so is a, relatively, fixed volume. ...

Charles Law, Boyles Law, Gay-Lussacs  Law.... put together to form the Combined gas laws  and you get

"The ratio between the pressure-volume product and the temperature of a system remains constant"  or PV/T=k or PV=kT

In your tyre the constant k and the Volume V don't change, so if T goes down, so must P ...   :)

I had just never realised by how much P changes with T ...
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Re: Tyres
« Reply #41 on: 05 March 2018, 15:52:19 »

Is that what Nitrogen in tyres was supposed to eliminate, less change in volume with relation to temperature.

Also explains why the 3.2 was a little unsettled leaving work on Tuesday in -4c, after 10 mins or so back to normal.
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Re: Tyres
« Reply #42 on: 05 March 2018, 16:03:48 »

Is that what Nitrogen in tyres was supposed to eliminate, less change in volume with relation to temperature.

Also explains why the 3.2 was a little unsettled leaving work on Tuesday in -4c, after 10 mins or so back to normal.

That's the theory, and why dry Nitrogen is used in aircraft tyres. .....   One of the biggest constituents of "normal" air is water vapour, and it changes volume with temperature by a large degree, it also condenses out, then freezes, at low temperatures. As aircraft tyres are subject to temperatures of -40 odd C at altitude, and they don't warm up much in the descent, IF water vapour was allowed into the tyres it would be a frozen lump at the bottom of the wheel at the point of touchdown, at which point the wheel is still stationary ... it then, very rapidly, gets spun up to a high rotational speed .... that lump of ice would cause MAJOR imbalance and SEVERE vibrations !!! (been there, got the T-shirt.... tyre was severely damaged.. but we expected it .. :) This was a C130 tyre which is HUGE )



I guess car tyres suffer the same, but to a far smaller degree, due to the much lower volume of air.
« Last Edit: 05 March 2018, 16:12:38 by Entwood »
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Re: Tyres
« Reply #43 on: 05 March 2018, 17:01:53 »

Thanks for that explanation, Nige; I thought nitrogen in my car tyres was just another "Emperor's New Clothes" con trick when offered it at Kwik-Shit some time ago!  ::)

Ron.
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Re: Tyres
« Reply #44 on: 05 March 2018, 17:09:07 »

Is that what Nitrogen in tyres was supposed to eliminate, less change in volume with relation to temperature.

Also explains why the 3.2 was a little unsettled leaving work on Tuesday in -4c, after 10 mins or so back to normal.

That's the theory, and why dry Nitrogen is used in aircraft tyres. .....   One of the biggest constituents of "normal" air is water vapour, and it changes volume with temperature by a large degree, it also condenses out, then freezes, at low temperatures. As aircraft tyres are subject to temperatures of -40 odd C at altitude, and they don't warm up much in the descent, IF water vapour was allowed into the tyres it would be a frozen lump at the bottom of the wheel at the point of touchdown, at which point the wheel is still stationary ... it then, very rapidly, gets spun up to a high rotational speed .... that lump of ice would cause MAJOR imbalance and SEVERE vibrations !!! (been there, got the T-shirt.... tyre was severely damaged.. but we expected it .. :) This was a C130 tyre which is HUGE )



I guess car tyres suffer the same, but to a far smaller degree, due to the much lower volume of air.

Thanks, those C130 tyres put things into perspective!
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Re: Tyres
« Reply #45 on: 05 March 2018, 17:11:04 »

Thanks for that explanation, Nige; I thought nitrogen in my car tyres was just another "Emperor's New Clothes" con trick when offered it at Kwik-Shit some time ago!  ::)

Ron.


It is on an ordinary road-going car tyre. But it is a good small cure for wallet overthickness.



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Re: Tyres
« Reply #46 on: 05 March 2018, 17:18:26 »

I can find plenty of cures for that condition without Kwik-Shit's help!

Ron.
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Re: Tyres
« Reply #47 on: 05 March 2018, 18:45:34 »

I can find plenty of cures for that condition without Kwik-Shit's help!

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Re: Tyres
« Reply #48 on: 06 March 2018, 10:35:52 »

Thanks for all the explanations having driven 2 and 4 wheels for over 60 years this is the first time that this has raised its head. :y
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Re: Tyres
« Reply #49 on: 06 March 2018, 10:40:46 »

Just another thought I believe recommended pressure is for a cold tyre so we are all driving overinflated.  :'(
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Re: Tyres
« Reply #50 on: 06 March 2018, 13:42:20 »

Yes, specified for 20 degrees C.

Ron.
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Re: Tyres
« Reply #51 on: 06 March 2018, 14:05:07 »

Don't get too hung up on it, though. The manufacturer recommendation will only be valid for the tyre they were using at the time, to meet the objectives they had at the time. It pays to experiment a little, especially if you have fitted a new brand of tyre, and based on how the car drives and how the tyres are wearing. :y
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Re: Tyres
« Reply #52 on: 06 March 2018, 14:26:17 »

Just another thought I believe recommended pressure is for a cold tyre so we are all driving overinflated.  :'(

or .... the manufacturer actually knows what they are doing and have taken into account the change in pressure as the tyre warms up ... ??? Given that it is extremely difficult to check the tyres whilst actually moving ......    :) (unless you have a temperature reading TPMS fitted)  :)
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Re: Tyres
« Reply #53 on: 06 March 2018, 17:31:45 »

In the past with other vehicles I did max pressure minus 10psi was around 34psi :y
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