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Author Topic: Pensioners....get yer wallets out  (Read 2320 times)

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Field Marshal Dr. Opti

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Re: Pensioners....get yer wallets out
« Reply #75 on: 11 May 2018, 19:02:59 »

I like my analogy best. Keep working, Albs.  :y

Yep....till he drops. :)
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Re: Pensioners....get yer wallets out
« Reply #76 on: 11 May 2018, 21:27:45 »

As you've explained before, Malcolm, no one has 'paid in' to the state pension, the people who are contributing now are paying for the current pensioners. I get a warm feeling inside knowing that Albs is paying to keep me warm in my dotage. Thanks, Albs  :-*   ;D ;D

Yes, but I would further argue that virtually no-one, and probably on-one on this list, ever pays anything in nett. We're all takers of govt benefits one way or another. Govt spending in 2017 was £1726 Bn. So for a population of 65 Million, that represents about £26.5K in per man woman and child. Personal taxation (Income tax, NI,  VAT and a few others) make up about  70% of govt income, so accounting for that I suppose you could argue that it's about £18.5K per man, woman and child.

So unless you pay £18.5K in taxes per year for every person in your household, you're a benefit scrounger living off the taxes paid by others.  ::)

Most recent figures I've got for UK total tax is for 2015:  £609.2bn. GDP: ~£1800bn. You have also got government net borrowing on top of this which in 2015 was: £86.5bn. So total government spending was: £696bn. This works out at about £10,700 per person or with ~30m working £23,200 per employed person.
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LC0112G

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Re: Pensioners....get yer wallets out
« Reply #77 on: 11 May 2018, 23:18:06 »

As you've explained before, Malcolm, no one has 'paid in' to the state pension, the people who are contributing now are paying for the current pensioners. I get a warm feeling inside knowing that Albs is paying to keep me warm in my dotage. Thanks, Albs  :-*   ;D ;D

Yes, but I would further argue that virtually no-one, and probably on-one on this list, ever pays anything in nett. We're all takers of govt benefits one way or another. Govt spending in 2017 was £1726 Bn. So for a population of 65 Million, that represents about £26.5K in per man woman and child. Personal taxation (Income tax, NI,  VAT and a few others) make up about  70% of govt income, so accounting for that I suppose you could argue that it's about £18.5K per man, woman and child.

So unless you pay £18.5K in taxes per year for every person in your household, you're a benefit scrounger living off the taxes paid by others.  ::)

Most recent figures I've got for UK total tax is for 2015:  £609.2bn. GDP: ~£1800bn. You have also got government net borrowing on top of this which in 2015 was: £86.5bn. So total government spending was: £696bn. This works out at about £10,700 per person or with ~30m working £23,200 per employed person.

Oops  - yes I misread the chart. https://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/numbers?units=d suggests the 2019 Govt spending target is £12.5bn. Still, the point holds - only those households earning £100K+ likely to be net contributors. Anyone paying 'only' basic rate tax is a benefit scrounger.  ::)
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Pensioners....get yer wallets out
« Reply #78 on: 12 May 2018, 09:57:47 »

Of course businesses pay zero tax too ::)
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TheBoy

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Re: Pensioners....get yer wallets out
« Reply #79 on: 12 May 2018, 10:03:21 »

Reduce the population, shoot any child who has 2 older siblings (that means shooting myself). Shoot anyone who is a financial drain on society, pensioners excluded.

The country needs to be cheaper to run, as we've run out of rich people to pay for it all.

Once again we are in a recession since the referendum (though figures are only just starting to catch up), and many small businesses just throwing in the towel as greedy landlords and greedy authorities keep bumping up rents and business rates, and nobody is spending.

Toys R us, Maplin and House of Fraser (now saved, temporarily) are just the start of this one, and there a few big names according to the retailer rags that are lined up to follow.

The millennials think online retailing is the answer, but that will only push prices up, and you can bet free postage/free return will soon become a thing of the past, and remember its horrifically expensive for a mail order company to process returns.


Obviously all this will reduce money raised by taxation, so time to vote me in as President ;)
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Field Marshal Dr. Opti

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Re: Pensioners....get yer wallets out
« Reply #80 on: 12 May 2018, 10:37:02 »

Reduce the population, shoot any child who has 2 older siblings (that means shooting myself). Shoot anyone who is a financial drain on society, pensioners excluded.

The country needs to be cheaper to run, as we've run out of rich people to pay for it all.

Once again we are in a recession since the referendum (though figures are only just starting to catch up), and many small businesses just throwing in the towel as greedy landlords and greedy authorities keep bumping up rents and business rates, and nobody is spending.

Toys R us, Maplin and House of Fraser (now saved, temporarily) are just the start of this one, and there a few big names according to the retailer rags that are lined up to follow.

The millennials think online retailing is the answer, but that will only push prices up, and you can bet free postage/free return will soon become a thing of the past, and remember its horrifically expensive for a mail order company to process returns.


Obviously all this will reduce money raised by taxation, so time to vote me in as President ;)

Why be such a wishy washy liberal? ::)

It the old people who are the problem. A machine gun and a large pit could prove a cost effective way of reducing government spending.
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Re: Pensioners....get yer wallets out
« Reply #81 on: 12 May 2018, 13:25:16 »

Reduce the population, shoot any child who has 2 older siblings (that means shooting myself). Shoot anyone who is a financial drain on society, pensioners excluded.

The country needs to be cheaper to run, as we've run out of rich people to pay for it all.

Once again we are in a recession since the referendum (though figures are only just starting to catch up), and many small businesses just throwing in the towel as greedy landlords and greedy authorities keep bumping up rents and business rates, and nobody is spending.

Toys R us, Maplin and House of Fraser (now saved, temporarily) are just the start of this one, and there a few big names according to the retailer rags that are lined up to follow.

The millennials think online retailing is the answer, but that will only push prices up, and you can bet free postage/free return will soon become a thing of the past, and remember its horrifically expensive for a mail order company to process returns.


Obviously all this will reduce money raised by taxation, so time to vote me in as President ;)

No point if you are going to shoot yourself  ::)
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Pensioners....get yer wallets out
« Reply #82 on: 12 May 2018, 16:18:15 »

As retailers go, those mentioned are small fry compared to what's coming...
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Pensioners....get yer wallets out
« Reply #83 on: 12 May 2018, 16:42:09 »

I was watching a programme on policing and the attempted control of drugs which ain't working.

It was stated, and I have no way of proving or dis-proving this, that if they legalized cannabis and apply standard rates of sales tax with VAT, no less than £6 billion could be raised.

Just imagine the saving of police time as well!

Just thought this was, if true, a great way of finding more money for the NHS that often has to treat the idiots who smoke the stuff, whilst (perhaps) controlling it's use! 8) :y
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Re: Pensioners....get yer wallets out
« Reply #84 on: 12 May 2018, 16:46:15 »

Not to mention that it does have some wholly legitimate medical uses, and is far less dangerous than alcohol or tobacco....

Overall Iím really not certain what the rational justification is for keeping it illegal.
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Re: Pensioners....get yer wallets out
« Reply #85 on: 12 May 2018, 17:12:05 »

Go and visit your local mental health hospital and take a bit of time to study the people who have had their brains fried by smoking the shit, then you might see the justification for keeping it illegal.
Many of them will be well below the age of 18 by the way.
This is a subject very close to my heart, and I find it frustrating when people are glib about it.  :-X
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Pensioners....get yer wallets out
« Reply #86 on: 12 May 2018, 19:15:44 »

Go and visit your local mental health hospital and take a bit of time to study the people who have had their brains fried by smoking the shit, then you might see the justification for keeping it illegal.
Many of them will be well below the age of 18 by the way.
This is a subject very close to my heart, and I find it frustrating when people are glib about it.  :-X

It is not a case of being glib about this subject but the fact is the war against the use of cannibis, with cannibis farms apparently in every street, is being lost at great cost.  Why not legalise it and control it's supply, whilst raising £6 billion of revenue to help improve both the NHS and Mental  Heath services. This could reduce the cost of the stuff, making it unviable for criminals to produce and distribute it, let alone controlling the quality of cannibis which is now being produced at far higher strengths than it was. It would also help those that need it for medical reasons.

The truth is that police resources are being wasted by chasing what is a never ending problem, that cannot be overcome without a new approach. Legalisation would also take away any perceived "glamour" and attractiveness of a presently criminal, against the authorities, act that many seem to have (I have myself dealt with many cannibis users and know what goes on in the heads of the young especially). It is a habit which many of the older cannibis users, like acoholics and smokers, would love to lose, so extra funds to the NHS could help their aims without the costs of police time, court services, and prisons. Currently many cannibis users are on on a merry go round of smoking the stuff, being warned / arrested by the police, fined, then back home to smoke it again, with further police action, etc, etc.  The police see this constantly so this cycle must be broken by a new approach to help all. ;)

Let's also recognise that the use of tobacco has fallen dramatically by using a controlled, governmental process since the 1960's, so why not try the same with cannibis.
« Last Edit: 12 May 2018, 19:19:44 by Lizzie Zoom »
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pscocoa

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Re: Pensioners....get yer wallets out
« Reply #87 on: 12 May 2018, 19:28:44 »

Can you claim tax relief on care home fees??
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TheBoy

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Re: Pensioners....get yer wallets out
« Reply #88 on: 12 May 2018, 19:38:30 »

Not to mention that it does have some wholly legitimate medical uses, and is far less dangerous than alcohol or tobacco....

Overall Iím really not certain what the rational justification is for keeping it illegal.
Depends on the person.

We all know alcohol impacts people differently, and all know chain smokers, 20 a day, all their life, living into their 90s.

As there are people who are mentally oppsed up through smoking a bit too much weed.
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Re: Pensioners....get yer wallets out
« Reply #89 on: 12 May 2018, 21:33:35 »

Go and visit your local mental health hospital and take a bit of time to study the people who have had their brains fried by smoking the shit, then you might see the justification for keeping it illegal.
Many of them will be well below the age of 18 by the way.
This is a subject very close to my heart, and I find it frustrating when people are glib about it.  :-X

Not glib, objective.

An estimated 90,000 people died in the US last year from alcohol and alcohol related violence. Deaths attributable to cannabis. Zero.   ::)

Yes, people suffer mental issues from a result of cannabis. Possibly. Or maybe itís the thousands of other things that an unregulated product is cut with to ďgive you a better highĒ. Similarly,if you drank bathtub hooch regularly Iím confident that youíd end up with a host of ancillary medical issues that you donít get drinking Bombay Saphire with some Schweppes.

Iím reasonably sure if you drink heavily before the age of 18 you arenít going to make old bones either. But if you legalise it, regulate it and regulate its contents and use you can focus your efforts on things that do more serious harm.
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