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Author Topic: Siemens NCDC screen problem  (Read 2200 times)

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kojotssss

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Siemens NCDC screen problem
« on: 14 August 2018, 20:43:51 »

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Re: Siemens NCDC screen problem
« Reply #1 on: 15 August 2018, 06:24:50 »

Hello!
Typical problem, needs the ribbon cable connector on the LCD (Sharp model no cant remember) resoldered. You will need a soldering iron with very fine tip, a magnifying glass and very steady hands. It also helps to have multimeter (with very fine prongs) to check if the soldering worked.
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Re: Siemens NCDC screen problem
« Reply #2 on: 15 August 2018, 14:02:17 »

Could be the ribbon cable to the LCD Panel or it could be the LCD Panel itself is on its way out.

If your up for the job repair yourself, or from memory theres a Ebay Item (in Germany I think) who offer repairs on the CID.
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Re: Siemens NCDC screen problem
« Reply #3 on: 15 August 2018, 16:33:12 »

Guy is called Gerners   lasertrader.de     and they offer a full service on most NCDC repairs...unfortunately they could fix mine as the main processor is dead so no nav but all else works .

Their service is quick and reliable ...you send item to them and almost the same day they email back with the cost..fixed in another day and then posted back :y
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Re: Siemens NCDC screen problem
« Reply #4 on: 15 August 2018, 19:25:04 »

Guy is called Gerners   lasertrader.de     and they offer a full service on most NCDC repairs...unfortunately they could fix mine as the main processor is dead so no nav but all else works .

Their service is quick and reliable ...you send item to them and almost the same day they email back with the cost..fixed in another day and then posted back :y

The Processor is in the main HU no, what did you get on the CID?, was it just a Black Screen where the Maps should be?
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Re: Siemens NCDC screen problem
« Reply #5 on: 15 August 2018, 21:09:44 »

Hi Chris.

No disc keeps getting spate out despite it being a genuine VX disc.When I tried an audio disc it just kept the disc and wouldn't eject it...nor play it.

Gerners had it twice...first time they replaced the laser and mechanism and returned it but fault remained.They had it back and tried it again on a test rig and said something about a processor with 100 pins had failed and parts weren't available and even if they were unsoldering and resoldering a new processor wasn't an option.

Unit works fine just no nav working so if you know a fix glad to talk  :y
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Re: Siemens NCDC screen problem
« Reply #6 on: 16 August 2018, 17:17:27 »

Easy enough to change the processor board (if you know pairing code, and have a tech2), but I'm suspicious its that.

TBH, I smell some BS you've been fed :(
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Re: Siemens NCDC screen problem
« Reply #7 on: 16 August 2018, 20:08:38 »

Being non electrical I need to rely on advise given,

Fancy having a look at it form me then ?Not sure if I have the code though as CID was replaced a few years ago but will have a look
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Re: Siemens NCDC screen problem
« Reply #8 on: 16 August 2018, 20:16:55 »

what happens when you attempt to select Nav?
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Re: Siemens NCDC screen problem
« Reply #9 on: 16 August 2018, 20:54:46 »

When disc is insert it says it cannot read data and it ejects it almost straight away.If I keep pushing it back in after about 5 or 6 attempt message appears the their is a disc error and advises to clean disc.

I have several genuine VX discs and despite cleaning all of them they all give the same message .

There is no sound of a disc spinning purely being drawn in and then ejecting.

Fault has been present now for 8 or more months prior to that all was working fine and no different discs have been inserted



 
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Re: Siemens NCDC screen problem
« Reply #10 on: 17 August 2018, 13:40:31 »

Hmm, yea Im not convinced either, based on how many NCDC become bricks due to Processor issues, never heard of one, worst I heard is a couple losing the ROM Chip symptoms of that show up as FM Radio faults, my money would be on the upper Laser.  :-\

As TB says if youve could the Code, a lot more options are available to you, seem to remember you have GSM Telematics fitted to it as well.
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Re: Siemens NCDC screen problem
« Reply #11 on: 17 August 2018, 18:19:36 »

The laser and mech were allegedly replace but problem still existed hence why it was returned to Gerners and they diagnose fault was processor .
I donít think I have the code as bought unit and screen off twiglet about 5 years ago and worked perfectly .
Unit is 2013 no telematics but full colour .
Any takers for repair then naturally happy to provide suitable recompense but unsure what other options I now have as Iím non electrical and must rely on experts
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Re: Siemens NCDC screen problem
« Reply #12 on: 17 August 2018, 18:31:07 »

When disc is insert it says it cannot read data and it ejects it almost straight away.If I keep pushing it back in after about 5 or 6 attempt message appears the their is a disc error and advises to clean disc.

I have several genuine VX discs and despite cleaning all of them they all give the same message .

There is no sound of a disc spinning purely being drawn in and then ejecting.

Fault has been present now for 8 or more months prior to that all was working fine and no different discs have been inserted
What about audio disks?
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Re: Siemens NCDC screen problem
« Reply #13 on: 17 August 2018, 18:45:55 »

Tried but doesnít play anything and disc refuses to eject so havenít put 1 in again since it last came back from Germany
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Re: Siemens NCDC screen problem
« Reply #14 on: 17 August 2018, 19:36:30 »

So its a knackered laser then.
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Re: Siemens NCDC screen problem
« Reply #15 on: 17 August 2018, 19:43:52 »

Can you fix it then ?
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Re: Siemens NCDC screen problem
« Reply #16 on: 17 August 2018, 20:27:33 »

Can you fix it then ?
I struggle to find new reliable lasers for them. So I'm reluctant to pay out £30 on the offchance it would work.

I'd recommend buying a known good NCDC or NCDR, and swap over the CD mechanism. That's what I do now.
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Re: Siemens NCDC screen problem
« Reply #17 on: 17 August 2018, 21:15:00 »

Makes sense .

Iím away till 28th now can we pm when I return and I will see if I can source a working unit trouble is without seeing it working itís a lottery

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Re: Siemens NCDC screen problem
« Reply #18 on: 18 August 2018, 12:27:32 »

Sure, although swapping CD mech over is trivial, honest :)
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Re: Siemens NCDC screen problem
« Reply #19 on: 18 August 2018, 12:57:27 »

Thanks

It might be within my ability I will have a read up if there is a guide and see if I feel able.

Just to confirm Iím looking for either a NCDC or NCDR head unit from any Vauxhall assuming they all have nav fitted .Then take apart and replace the entire mechanism which will have the laser and itís workings all fitted so like for like swap.No coding or anything else involved ??

Thanks TB
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Re: Siemens NCDC screen problem
« Reply #20 on: 18 August 2018, 13:03:09 »

Yes, you swap the top CD mechanism over, plug and play.  From memory, 2 screws hold mech in, and there are 2 fiddly (but not hard - just take your time) ribbons.

Coding is held on the forward board of the NCDC/NCDR, which you won't be touching, so you should have no coding/pairing issues.
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Re: Siemens NCDC screen problem
« Reply #21 on: 18 August 2018, 13:28:04 »

Well it sounds like Iím up to that !

Just need to find a 2nd hand working unit now and will have a go when I get back after bank holiday as would like to think it would work again
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Re: Siemens NCDC screen problem
« Reply #22 on: 26 August 2018, 16:50:02 »

Well spent a wet afternoon dismantling and re-assembling a NCDC 2013 and its mate.

Bought what I hoped was a working NCDC 2013.Took it apart and removed the nav mechanism complete and then removed the same from that in my car and swopped the 2 and re assembled.

Had high hopes and with fingers crossed refitted head unit and all worked ...except the nav part..same fault as before disc just gets drawn in and after about 30 seconds disc gets spat back out and unit askes me to insert disc.

Have done this around 10 times each with the same result so conclusion is :

1)..Either original diagnosis from Gerners was correct and something un repairable is the fault. :-[
2)..Lightning has struck twice and headunit I bought for £30 has the same fault as mine. >:(

Think Im now chasing a lost cause ,unless anybody has any pearls of wisdom.

On an aside the removal and refit was quite straightforward ,except the very fiddly little clips that hold the 2 ribbon cables into their sockets ..Very brittle and bits broke almost just looking at it but all replaced so did at least prove to my self I could do it
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Re: Siemens NCDC screen problem
« Reply #23 on: 26 August 2018, 18:45:01 »

Use the CDC lens in the nav unit :y

Assuming it works*...

*5 pints into a Bank Holiday Sunday I can't see why it wouldn't, but whilst you're there...

#WaterlooArmslivemusicSundays :D
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Re: Siemens NCDC screen problem
« Reply #24 on: 26 August 2018, 18:53:42 »

My skill set doesn't extend to the "full" laser replacement ,hence why I was keen when TB advised removing the mech from another headunit and doing a straight plug,n,play.

Seems there is either a fault within the main unit or I have been very very unlucky and had :

A) ..a specialist laser replacement company not want to replace the nav laser and give me a full refund..seems odd  or

B)..bought a 2nd hand 2013 with a fault to the laser also.

Enjoy your drink
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Re: Siemens NCDC screen problem
« Reply #25 on: 26 August 2018, 19:04:23 »

Option Aand you won't kill the spares unit by trying ;)
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Re: Siemens NCDC screen problem
« Reply #26 on: 26 August 2018, 19:10:31 »

Option (A) didn't cost me anything as was given full refund for 2 sets of postage to  Germany so couldn't see what they gained from that especially if they could replace laser.

Are Nav and CD laser units the same then ?

Still don't fancy getting into fiddly springs and connections doing a full swop to find fault remains
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Re: Siemens NCDC screen problem
« Reply #27 on: 26 August 2018, 20:22:47 »

Did you use the original ribbons, or the ones that came with the replacement?
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Re: Siemens NCDC screen problem
« Reply #28 on: 26 August 2018, 20:41:46 »

Ribbons that were attached to the mech from donor .
Would that be the cause then ?
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Re: Siemens NCDC screen problem
« Reply #29 on: 26 August 2018, 21:19:29 »

Have you tried a different disc ? My original GM disc does what you describe, but the newer copy I have works fine, although I don't use it as it will likely knacker the laser.
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Re: Siemens NCDC screen problem
« Reply #30 on: 26 August 2018, 21:57:56 »

Yes Albs tried 3 genuine discs

2 as good as new 1 never used both 2010/11,s

Disc I had with unit is Navteq 2008/9 and all 3 just get spat out advising to inset disc.After around 6 attempts tells me disc needs cleaning so same as was before the entire mechanism was swopped earlier today
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Re: Siemens NCDC screen problem
« Reply #31 on: 27 August 2018, 17:46:26 »

Ribbons that were attached to the mech from donor .
Would that be the cause then ?
The stuff can't read from the laser. You've (hopefully) ruled out mech and laser. All that stuff travels across the delicate ribbons...
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Re: Siemens NCDC screen problem
« Reply #32 on: 27 August 2018, 22:20:58 »

Mech and ribbons from donor unit fitted as a single repair,however same fault remains.

Is advise to use the headunits original ribbons and connect them to donor mech ?
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Re: Siemens NCDC screen problem
« Reply #33 on: 28 August 2018, 08:37:59 »

Mech and ribbons from donor unit fitted as a single repair,however same fault remains.

Is advise to use the headunits original ribbons and connect them to donor mech ?
No. Sounds like you've proved that its not the ribbons.

To save me looking (been a while since I've looked at one), where do the ribbons from the mech connect to? Is it the forward board, nearest the fascia, or the rearward board (that has the main radio connectors on)
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Re: Siemens NCDC screen problem
« Reply #34 on: 28 August 2018, 09:15:52 »

The 2 ribbons connected to the mech run from the front nearest the slot that takes the disc
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Re: Siemens NCDC screen problem
« Reply #35 on: 29 August 2018, 16:19:35 »

The 2 ribbons connected to the mech run from the front nearest the slot that takes the disc
Eh?

Do you have a pic?
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Re: Siemens NCDC screen problem
« Reply #36 on: 29 August 2018, 18:13:30 »

Cant upload pictures on forum .(computer dinosaur ) :-[ but can forward to an email if you PM addy :y
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Re: Siemens NCDC screen problem
« Reply #37 on: 29 August 2018, 20:27:08 »

I have now accepted defeat ever restoring the sat nav to my unit and am now accepting "The Man from Germany " was correct in his diagnosis that it is more than a laser/mech problem.

After kindly being given yet another NCDC 2013 by NickW,with a proven history of working , to have a play with I removed the entire headunit and screen from my car.I then fitted both the headunit and paired screen provided by Nick to establish it worked albeit a Black/White system.It accepted the disc and loaded everything as it should and provided sat nav along with radio and cd functions.

Thinking atleast we have a working mech and laser I thenn stripped it all back out and took it apart and removed laser and mech and fitted that all back into my own NCDC unit.Had high hopes when I fitted it all back into the car,but that didn't last long.

Same old problem as before of disc being ejected after a few seconds and no audible noise of any spinning disc or action.Only thing that does happen is when disc is drawn in the illumination of the disc slot goes out and after trying several attempts screen advises disc needs cleaning...obviously it cannot read the disc.

If anybody has any other suggestions I am happy to listen as at present I have 2 nav mechs and lasers along with 2 cd units 1 of which is paired to a monochrome screen..big box of bits and back to square 1 :'(
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Re: Siemens NCDC screen problem
« Reply #38 on: 29 August 2018, 21:31:43 »

Refit the working unit and mono screen, get both setups put into delivery mode then pair your CID screen with the working HU and set the screen to match your car configuration... Needs car passes for each HU, Tech II and somebody competent to operate it.
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Re: Siemens NCDC screen problem
« Reply #39 on: 29 August 2018, 21:42:56 »

I think I understand what you mean,but don't have pass codes for either H/U,s and I am very doudtful I could get original registration numbers from the cars they were removed from .

Does the head unit need to be paired before it can be put into delivery mode,and presumably it needs to be fitted into the car for all this to be done ,so not a simple exercise .


TBH I now think its time to draw a line under it as can see throwing loads of cash at it,but big thanks to all for hearing me out on this  :y
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Re: Siemens NCDC screen problem
« Reply #40 on: 30 August 2018, 19:03:20 »

Don't be so defeatist :D

Do you know anyone with a Tech2 local-ish?

Failing that, do you ever get near Brackley?
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Re: Siemens NCDC screen problem
« Reply #41 on: 30 August 2018, 23:05:31 »

I don't like accepting defeat however I seem to be chasing a problem I cant identify and don't have the means or knowledge to repair.

Brackley isn't a million miles away as I fear nobody close by has either the diagnostic equipment or trust the VX dealers locally have the necessary skill to get things sorted .

At present I have a large box of partially dismantled NCDC 2013,s ..no radio codes and a unit in the car which works apart from the Nav with a mech inside with a seemingly working mech.

TB...maybe if we exchange contact details by PM and you are prepared to untangle this mess I now have I would be very grateful  :y
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Re: Siemens NCDC screen problem
« Reply #42 on: 31 August 2018, 10:55:41 »

Its very easy to get lost with this sort of thing Andrew, as in a big box of bits, while everything is fresh in your mind, take time to start labeling the parts up, where they came from, what was paired to what and what the problem was with each part, otherwise your end putting the box of bits on the shelf and 4 weeks later, Brain Death kicks and you wont know your left from your right, been there got the T Shirt many times.  :D ;)
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Re: Siemens NCDC screen problem
« Reply #43 on: 31 August 2018, 13:35:52 »

Wise words Chris ,I have got the bits seperated ,
Mech in car unit needs to come out and be swooped with that in box which is the paired 1 with mono screen and my old mech is already labelled up .
Have now binned the odd bits as could see Age/Eyesight kickin in and nit knowing arse from elbow.
Problem remains I have no codes or registrations and very doubtful they can be obtained as have probably gone through several cars over the years
Are the codes critical to the procedure suggested or is there a work around
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Re: Siemens NCDC screen problem
« Reply #44 on: 31 August 2018, 14:31:41 »

Wise words Chris ,I have got the bits seperated ,
Mech in car unit needs to come out and be swooped with that in box which is the paired 1 with mono screen and my old mech is already labelled up .
Have now binned the odd bits as could see Age/Eyesight kickin in and nit knowing arse from elbow.
Problem remains I have no codes or registrations and very doubtful they can be obtained as have probably gone through several cars over the years
Are the codes critical to the procedure suggested or is there a work around
Without the Codes you are a bit limited as to what you can achieve. as far as Im aware the pairing code gubbings lives on the main board of the HU and on the back board of the Screen (we'll forget about Telematics in your case) also not to sure if the lower CDC is paired as well, think it might be, unless TB has some magical work around to move Paired things around without a proper Code?

I wouldnt give up just yet, see if TB can sort things (without the Codes) or just keep fingers crossed that something may come up in the future thats working for you.

Thinking out loud, I do have a Bose 2013 and CID tucked away for a rainy day or a project, but I warn you now, I bought it some years ago, and paid a fair bit for it.   :( thats assuming I go down the selling route  :-\
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Re: Siemens NCDC screen problem
« Reply #45 on: 31 August 2018, 16:00:40 »

Thanks again,Chris.

I will await and see if TB has any solutions first before calling it a day as would still like things to work as designed but there is a limit as I am sure you appreciate..TBH I would imagine the worth to me for a working ,even with a 2010/11 disc,so 7-8 years old nav isn't close to what you would be expecting to achieve if you did decide to part with it but thanks for the offer.

Happy to do straight swap though  ;D ;D ;D as Im sure a man of your talent would have this working in the blink of an eye :o

Lets see what Mr.TB comes up with  :y
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Re: Siemens NCDC screen problem
« Reply #46 on: 31 August 2018, 18:37:42 »

Its very easy to get lost with this sort of thing Andrew, as in a big box of bits, while everything is fresh in your mind, take time to start labeling the parts up, where they came from, what was paired to what and what the problem was with each part, otherwise your end putting the box of bits on the shelf and 4 weeks later, Brain Death kicks and you wont know your left from your right, been there got the T Shirt many times.  :D ;)
^^^^  This ^^^^
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Re: Siemens NCDC screen problem
« Reply #47 on: 31 August 2018, 18:42:39 »

Amba - so you have:

1) A fully working NCDC2013+GID that you are perfectly happy with, but want to use your CID
2) A fully "working" NCDC2013+CID, except that the top CD mech is problematic

And you want to use the NCDC from 1) and the screen from 2)

That's doable with it all in front of me.
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Re: Siemens NCDC screen problem
« Reply #48 on: 31 August 2018, 18:54:06 »

TB

Exactly ,I just want to refit the 2013 with GID again just to be totally certain the cd also works as I only checked for loading of the nav disc as I thought I could just swap Nav mech over .

Will dbl check tomorrow and confirm but more optimistic now tjanks  :y
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Re: Siemens NCDC screen problem
« Reply #49 on: 31 August 2018, 19:02:08 »

Yeah, fully test that NCDC thoroughly, including the radio (AM and FM), top slot (Nav and music cd) and multichanger.
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Re: Siemens NCDC screen problem
« Reply #50 on: 31 August 2018, 22:02:08 »

I will get them swopped over at some point over the weekend and fully test all functions and report back . :y
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Re: Siemens NCDC screen problem
« Reply #51 on: 03 September 2018, 17:39:36 »

PM sent over explaining results :y
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Re: Siemens NCDC screen problem
« Reply #52 on: 05 September 2018, 18:55:21 »

IF its any use, I have a 2013 (non bose) here c/w matching CID that's gathering dust.
Only problem is the CD disc magazine is stuck which is a easyish fix apparently and the front flap is off (but I do have all the bits somewhere)

Sat nav side works great (after I ran a cleaner through it too)


PM me if any use  :y
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