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Author Topic: 3.2 issue.  (Read 741 times)

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Doctor Gollum

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3.2 issue.
« on: 29 September 2018, 11:48:51 »

The car: 3.2 manual estate. Been parked up for 3 years. Fresh fuel added then driven 77 miles. Was fine initially, albeit with lifter noise, but by end of journey car cutting out and missing, eventually stalling. Won't rev past 4k.

Codes 0340 and 0300.

Car has since been sat a week.

Coil packs off and plugs out. 135 pack as new, plugs fouled and stink of fuel. 246 pack shot and plugs fouled no smell of fuel.

Plugs cleaned and refitted along with v good 246 replacement pack. Known good cam sensor also fitted.

Can of lifter treatment added.

Car then started and allowed to idle. Still very tappety but improving slightly as it warmed up. All the lifter noise is from the rearmost two tappets on 5 (1 exhaust and 1 inlet) I suspect that with a couple of oil changes and some more treatment these will eventually settle down.

As the car warmed up it started to mis. Revs applied and whilst it revs OK, still no more than 4k. Lift off and it splutters. Unplugging MAF made no difference. Repeat and it stalls. Codes 0340 and 0300.

135 flooding. Pull fuse 18 and it starts fine but idles rough when warm. Start WOT and again starts fine and revs as soon as running.

Current thinking is that the crank sensor is starting to breakdown causing an intermittent failure which shuts the engine down mid flow.  :-\
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Mutha Jugs n Speed

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Re: 3.2 issue.
« Reply #1 on: 29 September 2018, 12:12:26 »

Is this your old TVP car Al?
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dave the builder

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Re: 3.2 issue.
« Reply #2 on: 29 September 2018, 12:17:25 »

bore wash  :-\
try a little oil in the bores ,may help those sticking  zorst valve too
the top end / cams would be dry after being laid up so long
had it been a 4 pot ,i'd whip the cam cover off and examine the cam ,valves etc
not so easy on a 6 banger  :(


« Last Edit: 29 September 2018, 12:28:26 by dave the builder »
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0795omega

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Re: 3.2 issue.
« Reply #3 on: 29 September 2018, 12:37:30 »

good luck with that!! sounds like engines toast!!
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: 3.2 issue.
« Reply #4 on: 29 September 2018, 13:22:47 »

The car was given a once over before initial starting and I don't believe that if it was mechanically knackered that it would have lasted 7 miles, let alone 70+.

It will clearly need some tlc, and is due a belt on time... Has done about 9k in the last six years.

Plug wells are clean and dry, so didn't particularly want to disturb the covers just yet.
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TheBoy

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Re: 3.2 issue.
« Reply #5 on: 29 September 2018, 16:10:44 »

P0340 is cam sensor, so start there.
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: 3.2 issue.
« Reply #6 on: 29 September 2018, 16:53:02 »

Done with no improvement. Although known good second hand.

Incidentally this car has previously had a cam sensor changed... One of only two 3.2s I have encountered with a 0340 code.
« Last Edit: 29 September 2018, 16:56:06 by Doctor Gollum »
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Andy H

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Re: 3.2 issue.
« Reply #7 on: 29 September 2018, 17:02:08 »

Done with no improvement. Although known good second hand.

Incidentally this car has previously had a cam sensor changed... One of only two 3.2s I have encountered with a 0340 code.
Wiring fault?
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dave the builder

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Re: 3.2 issue.
« Reply #8 on: 29 September 2018, 17:25:41 »

where does the engine ECU live on these ?
somewhere that gets wet via rust holes or scuttle flood  :-\
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Andy H

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Re: 3.2 issue.
« Reply #9 on: 29 September 2018, 17:31:20 »

where does the engine ECU live on these ?
somewhere that gets wet via rust holes or scuttle flood  :-\
In the triangular fuse box next to the battery.

The wiring to the cam sensor hops across to the front of the engine - IIRC it is one of the cables that has to be evicted from the cable tray across the front of the cam-belt cover each time the cam-belt is changed :-\
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Kevin Wood

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Re: 3.2 issue.
« Reply #10 on: 29 September 2018, 17:37:08 »

What are the fuel trims doing? Thinking it may be fine when running open loop but dying when closed loop due to a poor lambda sensor on one bank?
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dave the builder

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Re: 3.2 issue.
« Reply #11 on: 29 September 2018, 17:52:06 »

where does the engine ECU live on these ?
somewhere that gets wet via rust holes or scuttle flood  :-\
In the triangular fuse box next to the battery.

The wiring to the cam sensor hops across to the front of the engine - IIRC it is one of the cables that has to be evicted from the cable tray across the front of the cam-belt cover each time the cam-belt is changed :-\
Thanks  :y
so, easy (ish) to meter out the cam sensor to ECU loom plus check the ECU plugs for crud

What are the fuel trims doing? Thinking it may be fine when running open loop but dying when closed loop due to a poor lambda sensor on one bank?

Good point  :) live data is great at finding electrical gremlins
and a stethoscope is good to pinpoint mechanical
not unheard of for a cam to snap on some vauxhall engines or valves stick and bend(4 pot)
probably unheard of on a v6 though  :-\
i'm new to these v6 lumps  :-[
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: 3.2 issue.
« Reply #12 on: 29 September 2018, 18:15:04 »

where does the engine ECU live on these ?
somewhere that gets wet via rust holes or scuttle flood  :-\
In the triangular fuse box next to the battery.

The wiring to the cam sensor hops across to the front of the engine - IIRC it is one of the cables that has to be evicted from the cable tray across the front of the cam-belt cover each time the cam-belt is changed :-\
Not so, pops out of the end of the 246 cable tray and lives on the front inlet side of 2 above the thermostat pipe.

Done with no improvement. Although known good second hand.

Incidentally this car has previously had a cam sensor changed... One of only two 3.2s I have encountered with a 0340 code.
Wiring fault?
Possibly, but no evidence of rodent intervention.
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: 3.2 issue.
« Reply #13 on: 29 September 2018, 18:30:53 »

What are the fuel trims doing? Thinking it may be fine when running open loop but dying when closed loop due to a poor lambda sensor on one bank?
It did, very briefly throw up a code for B1S1. But couldn't get it running long enough to repeat.

Code reader is a generic one, so some of the following is a little confusing.

Below is the detail from screen shots of all six pages of live data engine at temp and idle...

Fuel System 1    OL Fault
Fuel System 1    OL Fault
Calculated Load     5.1%
Engine Coolant Temp   80°
STFT1   0.0%
STFT3   - 40.6%
LTFT1   0.0%
LTFT3   -39.8
STFT2   0.0%
STFT4   -39.1%
LTFT2    0.0%
LTFT4   - 38.3%
RPM    600/rpm
Vehicle Speed   0 mph
Ignition Advance   0.0
Intake Air Temperature   27°C
Airflow   6.50g/s
Throttle   3.5%
O2V B1S1   0.085V
STFT B1S1   0.0%
O2V B1S2   0.485V
STFT B1S2   99.2%
O2V B2S1   0.045V
STFT B2S1   0.0%
O2V B2S2   0.62V
STFT B2S2   99.2%
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ajsphead

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Re: 3.2 issue.
« Reply #14 on: 29 September 2018, 20:05:53 »

Do I understand that it's fine when cold, just misses and overfuels when hot?

If so then problem could be breakdown within coil packs leading to inadequate spark or
faulty lambdas, probably post cat or
faulty coolant temp sensor reading low, making ECU enrich mixture (unlikely in this case) or
breakdown within spark plugs causing weak spark or
injectors sticking open causing the duration to be artificially long or
the usual crank sensor or
any attendent wiring or
something really silly like birds nest in the airbox.

It needs someone who can read the V6 dataset to comment on the airflow and lambda readings.

I'd give it a full thorough service including some internal cleaning potions that actually work then if not cured you could test each suspect component at a time till you find the duff one, or do it on a probablility and likelihood basis.
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: 3.2 issue.
« Reply #15 on: 29 September 2018, 20:30:15 »

Gauge temp follows the ECU temp by about 2° so confident that is in order. Issues weren't immediately apparent stone cold, but were very much still evident after a couple of hours switched off... These 3.2s do retain alot of heat :D

Coil packs are 100%.

Crank sensor has been suggested elsewhere. Not yet ruled out. And notorious for not giving a code on these.

No evidence of nesting.

Sticking injectors was my immediate suspicion as the only reasonable cause for over fuelling.

It seems that there are a handful of things going on. Crank sensor and thorough service will probably be the next steps, along with a Tech 2 session.

Once it's running properly, the cambelt and tappets can be addressed.
« Last Edit: 29 September 2018, 20:36:19 by Doctor Gollum »
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TheBoy

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Re: 3.2 issue.
« Reply #16 on: 30 September 2018, 03:02:30 »

Meter through the Cam sensor loom. The fact that P0340 comes back quickly means the ECU ain't happy with it, and I suspect that's the 4k rpm issue.

Suspect you have trim/fueling issues as well.  Being stood for so long, worth changing fuel filter as a matter of course?
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: 3.2 issue.
« Reply #17 on: 30 September 2018, 03:28:18 »

Will check both cam sensors and loom resistance when next there. The service bits will probably wait a spell due to other time commitments although fuel filter is on the list :y

I do have at least one spare O2 sensor, worth changing B1S1 as it popped a code for it?
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Re: 3.2 issue.
« Reply #18 on: 30 September 2018, 03:36:25 »

I do have at least one spare O2 sensor, worth changing B1S1 as it popped a code for it?
Not without better live data.
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Andy H

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Re: 3.2 issue.
« Reply #19 on: 30 September 2018, 06:40:10 »

where does the engine ECU live on these ?
somewhere that gets wet via rust holes or scuttle flood  :-\
In the triangular fuse box next to the battery.

The wiring to the cam sensor hops across to the front of the engine - IIRC it is one of the cables that has to be evicted from the cable tray across the front of the cam-belt cover each time the cam-belt is changed :-\
Not so, pops out of the end of the 246 cable tray and lives on the front inlet side of 2 above the thermostat pipe.

Done with no improvement. Although known good second hand.

Incidentally this car has previously had a cam sensor changed... One of only two 3.2s I have encountered with a 0340 code.
Wiring fault?
Possibly, but no evidence of rodent intervention.
I was thinking of something more subtle (like a crimp connection hanging on by a single strand)
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: 3.2 issue.
« Reply #20 on: 30 September 2018, 14:04:34 »

I do have at least one spare O2 sensor, worth changing B1S1 as it popped a code for it?
Not without better live data.
Understood, given the logistics, I would have it to hand following a Tech 2 session.  :y
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iZirk

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Re: 3.2 issue.
« Reply #21 on: 30 September 2018, 17:05:06 »

long shot, but Ive had a couple of 3.2 that have been stood for a while, and 2 in particular the Main ECU didnt like it, both fired up fine, one then was throwing Codes all over the place and then became a Intermittent start before packing up all together, other one, simular, started fine but was running rough and keep stalling again weird Codes, both were in running order before being stood up.


As said, long shot, but I would remove ECU, take in doors and leave somewhere warm'ish for a while, I know they are seeled but you never know, also Hair dryier on the ECU Loom, do you have another ECU at hand, 3.2/2.6 to test Al..
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: 3.2 issue.
« Reply #22 on: 01 October 2018, 07:44:28 »

Will add that to the list  :y
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tigers_gonads

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Re: 3.2 issue.
« Reply #23 on: 01 October 2018, 14:10:26 »

Talking about O2 sensors
I replaced both my B1-S1 and B2- S1 sensors with a pair of these.

For what its worth, my car has really struggled to pass the emission test for the last few years.
I knew they were slow so took a punt on these and it absolutely pissed it last week  :y

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vauxhall-Astra-MK5-1-4-1-6-2-0-Lambda-Exhaust-O2-Oxygen-Sensor-855351-92210450/172966500149?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


For the price you can't go wrong imo  :y

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Doctor Gollum

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Re: 3.2 issue.
« Reply #24 on: 04 October 2018, 16:45:57 »

Replace all four for that money :y
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Mr.OmegaMan

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Re: 3.2 issue.
« Reply #25 on: 04 October 2018, 18:15:45 »

Talking about O2 sensors
I replaced both my B1-S1 and B2- S1 sensors with a pair of these.

For what its worth, my car has really struggled to pass the emission test for the last few years.
I knew they were slow so took a punt on these and it absolutely pissed it last week  :y

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vauxhall-Astra-MK5-1-4-1-6-2-0-Lambda-Exhaust-O2-Oxygen-Sensor-855351-92210450/172966500149?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


For the price you can't go wrong imo  :y

Doesn’t state they fit the 3.2  , Presuming they do if you bought them?
Like you say can’t go with that price  :y
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Re: 3.2 issue.
« Reply #26 on: 07 October 2018, 10:39:18 »

Fitted perfectly okay to my 3ltr converted cats and work a treat  :y
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sjc

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Re: 3.2 issue.
« Reply #27 on: 09 October 2018, 18:14:48 »

Sounds like crank sensor to me, but also, where was the new fuel from?  Could be worth trying a couple of gallons from a different source.
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