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Author Topic: White Goods Thread!!  (Read 588 times)

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Field Marshal Dr. Opti

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Re: White Goods Thread!!
« Reply #15 on: 19 October 2018, 11:13:49 »

Our tumble dryer trips out after 30 minutes......every time.
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LC0112G

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Re: White Goods Thread!!
« Reply #16 on: 19 October 2018, 11:15:52 »


RCD's trip because of a circuit leak to earth, not because the plug is getting hot or the appliance is drawing too much current/power.

The RCD basically measures the current in the live (brown) and neutral (blue) wires. These must be equal at all times. If they aren't equal then some electricity is escaping from the wires, which means there is a leak to somewhere else. This leak only needs to be a few milli-amps to trip the RCD (typically 30mA). The fuse won't blow till/unless the leak exceeds the fuse rating - probably 3A or 5A.

If replacing the plug allows you to reset the RCD, then the plug or wire is the likely cause of the fault. Give the FF a good shake, and rattle the motor/compressor. If the RCD trips again then I'd replace the FF - you risk getting an electric shock if you don't.

It has 2 x 13amp fuses, one in the plug which plugs into a blank socket and the other at the fused switch it's connected to.  Neither had blown.  :-\

The fuses are there to limit the amount of power that the unit can consume in the event of a fault. I doubt a FF should have a 13A plug - Things like kettles and toasters yes - they consume a LOT of power. 13A = 3KW continuous. I'd expect a FF to be either 3A or 5A, so suspect that the plug fuse has already been replaced once. Why?

The RCD is there to protect YOU from electric shocks. If you were to touch the live (brown) wire in a plug, then current would flow from the brown wire, through you and out of you feet to earth. You'd get a throbbing belt (aka electric shock) and either know all about it, or worst case not know anything at all about it  :-X.  The amount of current that flows through you is only a few mA, but that can be enough to kill you. The fuses won't blow because a few mA isn't enough to blow a 3A/5A/13A fuse.  However, the RCD will trip because the current in the brown wire is now greater than the current in the blue wire ; some of the brown current is passing through you.

The same applies to any shorts internal to the cables or the FF. The FF case and any exposed metalwork is almost certainly connected to earth (the green/yellow striped wire). If the wiring insulation starts to fail then live (brown) current can find it's way to the metal earth (green/yellow). This earth current then isn't flowing in the neutral(blue) wire so the brown/blue currents are different and the RCD trips.
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LC0112G

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Re: White Goods Thread!!
« Reply #17 on: 19 October 2018, 11:34:08 »

Our tumble dryer trips out after 30 minutes......every time.

What trips? The RCD or the circuit breaker/fuse?

RCD tripping = earth leakage = risk of electric shock.
Circuit Breaker tripping = too much power being consumed = risk of fire.

AIUI most newer wiring has just one RCD protecting the whole house. So any earth leakage anywhere in the house causes the RCD to trip and you loose electricity to everything - plugs, lights, cookers, central heating, emersion heaters the lot.

There can/will be many circuit breakers though. Typically upstairs plugs (ring main), downstairs plugs (ring main), lights, electric cooker, garage, boiler, immersion heater etc. Each of these have their own fuse/circuit breaker. Each of these fuses/circuit breakers will have their own current ratings. If the fuse/circuit breaker trips then it's something wrong with that particular circuit, and not an earth leakage issue.

Ring mains can be problematic. They're typically fused at 30/32A. If you plug 3 devices capable of drawing 13A each and run them at the same time then you probably will trip the CB. So Say you turn the kettle and toaster on, and then someone else puts the tumble dryer on, and all 3 are plugged into the same ring main, then the CB may well trip.
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Fuse 19

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Re: White Goods Thread!!
« Reply #18 on: 19 October 2018, 11:47:19 »

If the plug was hot and showing signs of overheating then the plug was at fault (do check the wall socket is ok to)

As you have replaced it then the fault is fixed, so worry not

I personally wouldn't be so sure.  This was a sealed plug that came with the appliance.  It is extremely rare for a good quality plug, as I am sure the F/F manufacturer does not fit sub-standard ones, to overheat and start to melt with it's own fault.  It is more likely that the appliance has developed a fault, and to be safe I would want that tested.  As I said, the risk of doing nothing and having a fire is just too great.  With any electrical appliance safety first is always the best policy.

Nope, the heat source will only occur at the point of fault, the point of fault is removed and replaced and hence good to go  :y

As for the quality of moulded plugs, having seen what is fitted, even by what many would consider to be 'high end' manaufacturers, they are often far from the best  and more a case of just good enough.
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: White Goods Thread!!
« Reply #19 on: 19 October 2018, 11:54:43 »

If the plug was hot and showing signs of overheating then the plug was at fault (do check the wall socket is ok to)

As you have replaced it then the fault is fixed, so worry not

I personally wouldn't be so sure.  This was a sealed plug that came with the appliance.  It is extremely rare for a good quality plug, as I am sure the F/F manufacturer does not fit sub-standard ones, to overheat and start to melt with it's own fault.  It is more likely that the appliance has developed a fault, and to be safe I would want that tested.  As I said, the risk of doing nothing and having a fire is just too great.  With any electrical appliance safety first is always the best policy.

Nope, the heat source will only occur at the point of fault, the point of fault is removed and replaced and hence good to go  :y

As for the quality of moulded plugs, having seen what is fitted, even by what many would consider to be 'high end' manaufacturers, they are often far from the best  and more a case of just good enough.

Ah, right, thanks Fuse.  You obviously know what you are talking about :D :y :y

If I was Sir Tigger's wife/partner though I would still take advantage of the situation and push for a nice, new, up to date, fridge freezer! :D :D
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Fuse 19

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Re: White Goods Thread!!
« Reply #20 on: 19 October 2018, 12:05:05 »

Ha ha

Yes its the old I2R, get a faulty connection/joint and you increase the value of R and hence you generate heat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVy6LcqjZLU
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Re: White Goods Thread!!
« Reply #21 on: 19 October 2018, 12:16:51 »

I'm sure there have been multiple recalls over plug issues on white goods. It's worth doing some digging, not because you want the plug replacing, but because someone has already done the digging and found X to be the actual issue.

I had a Hotpoint washer, NEVER AGAIN! It stopped working for the third time in about 5 years, I opened the back and found the insulation from most the internal wiring was missing/cracked/broken/dangling. I cut most of the wiring out of it to stop someone reusing it and took it to the tip.
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Re: White Goods Thread!!
« Reply #22 on: 19 October 2018, 12:34:08 »


RCD's trip because of a circuit leak to earth, not because the plug is getting hot or the appliance is drawing too much current/power.

The RCD basically measures the current in the live (brown) and neutral (blue) wires. These must be equal at all times. If they aren't equal then some electricity is escaping from the wires, which means there is a leak to somewhere else. This leak only needs to be a few milli-amps to trip the RCD (typically 30mA). The fuse won't blow till/unless the leak exceeds the fuse rating - probably 3A or 5A.

If replacing the plug allows you to reset the RCD, then the plug or wire is the likely cause of the fault. Give the FF a good shake, and rattle the motor/compressor. If the RCD trips again then I'd replace the FF - you risk getting an electric shock if you don't.

It has 2 x 13amp fuses, one in the plug which plugs into a blank socket and the other at the fused switch it's connected to.  Neither had blown.  :-\

The fuses are there to limit the amount of power that the unit can consume in the event of a fault. I doubt a FF should have a 13A plug - Things like kettles and toasters yes - they consume a LOT of power. 13A = 3KW continuous. I'd expect a FF to be either 3A or 5A, so suspect that the plug fuse has already been replaced once. Why?



My FF also has a 13amp fuse fitted and hasn't been replaced. FF do only take a small amount of current when the motor is running. Its the start up current of the motor that will be high, hence a 13amp fuse  :y
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Sir Tigger QC

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Re: White Goods Thread!!
« Reply #23 on: 19 October 2018, 12:44:25 »



If I was Sir Tigger's wife/partner though I would still take advantage of the situation and push for a nice, new, up to date, fridge freezer! :D :D

Typical response from a woman!  ::)

Always looking for an opportunity to go shopping!  :-X  ;D
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Re: White Goods Thread!!
« Reply #24 on: 19 October 2018, 12:48:35 »

All of my white goods are Bosch now, except the washing machine which is Samsung.
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Fuse 19

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Re: White Goods Thread!!
« Reply #25 on: 19 October 2018, 13:04:14 »

All of my white goods are Bosch now, except the washing machine which is Samsung.

Bosch branded......so BSH group which means it might be a Bosch , Neff , Siemens or Gaggenau...
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Re: White Goods Thread!!
« Reply #26 on: 19 October 2018, 13:12:13 »

All of my white goods are Bosch now, except the washing machine which is Samsung.

Bosch branded......so BSH group which means it might be a Bosch , Neff , Siemens or Gaggenau...
Ok. I actually didn't delve that deeply.  ;D
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dave the builder

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Re: White Goods Thread!!
« Reply #27 on: 19 October 2018, 15:32:13 »

Some very good information  :y
some extra of points I think worthy of note
ring main is an old term wrongly used   ,should be "ring final circuit "when referring to the loop socket circuit in a home.
A hot spot that melts/burns a plug  could be loose connection,terminal in the plug,bad fuse (there are fake fuses )fraying conductor in the lead, or could be a loose terminal or contact in the socket itself
it's very common to get a bit of moisture /condensation trapped between plug and socket, creating a temporary path ,live to neutral or live to earth, or indeed neutral to earth , the heat generated in the path evaporates the water but by then the RCD has tripped (very common with kettles and dryers due to steam )

I do like a nice  John Ward or Bigclivedotcom  video  :y
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Re: White Goods Thread!!
« Reply #28 on: 19 October 2018, 15:33:20 »


RCD's trip because of a circuit leak to earth, not because the plug is getting hot or the appliance is drawing too much current/power.

The RCD basically measures the current in the live (brown) and neutral (blue) wires. These must be equal at all times. If they aren't equal then some electricity is escaping from the wires, which means there is a leak to somewhere else. This leak only needs to be a few milli-amps to trip the RCD (typically 30mA). The fuse won't blow till/unless the leak exceeds the fuse rating - probably 3A or 5A.

If replacing the plug allows you to reset the RCD, then the plug or wire is the likely cause of the fault. Give the FF a good shake, and rattle the motor/compressor. If the RCD trips again then I'd replace the FF - you risk getting an electric shock if you don't.

It has 2 x 13amp fuses, one in the plug which plugs into a blank socket and the other at the fused switch it's connected to.  Neither had blown.  :-\

The fuses are there to limit the amount of power that the unit can consume in the event of a fault. I doubt a FF should have a 13A plug - Things like kettles and toasters yes - they consume a LOT of power. 13A = 3KW continuous. I'd expect a FF to be either 3A or 5A, so suspect that the plug fuse has already been replaced once. Why?



My FF also has a 13amp fuse fitted and hasn't been replaced. FF do only take a small amount of current when the motor is running. Its the start up current of the motor that will be high, hence a 13amp fuse  :y

Yes, indeed. They do have quiet high inrush current at startup. Enough to blow a 5A fuse every time, IME, so 13A is normally an appropriate rating. :y
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Re: White Goods Thread!!
« Reply #29 on: 19 October 2018, 16:32:00 »

Shaded pole induction motors, maximum current at zero rpm plus a virtual shorted turn to kick it into turning (the correct way)
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