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Author Topic: Misfire....logical next step?  (Read 627 times)

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JDX

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Misfire....logical next step?
« on: 29 December 2018, 17:45:11 »

V6 2.6 auto
So, I have replaced all the spark plugs. I have removed the plenum & as per the great guide supplied by Fuse 19, I have dismantled, cleaned using carb cleaner all the bits, throttle etc & it's all back.
No improvement in the miss fire, eml remains on & via pedal trick I have codes 0300, 0304, 0302 & 1110.
I have checked all the cables & pipes & as far as I can tell all seems good.
What would you advise I try next?
If I take the car to someone with a code reader will it provide more specific information?
Thanks.
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amba

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Re: Misfire....logical next step?
« Reply #1 on: 29 December 2018, 17:50:12 »

Worth checking you are getting a good spark at each plug as you could have the signs of a failing coilpack.

The rubber boots tend to perish if the plug wells have had a soaking in oil from a leaking camcover gasket so you maybe loosing some of the spark to the inside of the plug chamber at not going direct to the plug.
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Alnico Blue

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Re: Misfire....logical next step?
« Reply #2 on: 29 December 2018, 17:50:51 »

2-4-6  coil pack on way out  . . .got some  used ones here if you want to try a swap first before buying one  ;)
« Last Edit: 29 December 2018, 17:53:01 by Alnico Blue »
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JDX

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Re: Misfire....logical next step?
« Reply #3 on: 29 December 2018, 17:56:24 »

OK thanks.
When I changed the plugs the spark plug holes were full of water on that side, so maybe that started the problem. I have since sealed the scuttle so hopefully it wont happen again.
I will have ago at checking the sparks on that side tomorrow in the daylight.
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JDX

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Re: Misfire....logical next step?
« Reply #4 on: 29 December 2018, 17:58:52 »

2-4-6  coil pack on way out  . . .got some  used ones here if you want to try a swap first before buying one  ;)
Thanks for the offer, I will see what I can find in the morning before I drive over but that may really help.
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Re: Misfire....logical next step?
« Reply #5 on: 29 December 2018, 18:01:00 »

Did you happen to notice the condition of the coil pack?

Can pretty much guarantee corrosion and minor cracking of the casing...
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Alnico Blue

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Re: Misfire....logical next step?
« Reply #6 on: 29 December 2018, 18:03:32 »

2-4-6  coil pack on way out  . . .got some  used ones here if you want to try a swap first before buying one  ;)
Thanks for the offer, I will see what I can find in the morning before I drive over but that may really help.

where in North Essex are you ?
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JDX

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Re: Misfire....logical next step?
« Reply #7 on: 29 December 2018, 18:06:43 »

Did you happen to notice the condition of the coil pack?

Can pretty much guarantee corrosion and minor cracking of the casing...
There was minor cracking yes....
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JDX

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Re: Misfire....logical next step?
« Reply #8 on: 29 December 2018, 18:07:14 »

2-4-6  coil pack on way out  . . .got some  used ones here if you want to try a swap first before buying one  ;)
Thanks for the offer, I will see what I can find in the morning before I drive over but that may really help.

where in North Essex are you ?
I'm in Halstead....
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amba

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Re: Misfire....logical next step?
« Reply #9 on: 29 December 2018, 18:08:51 »

Bet moisture has got into that coilpack and started the demise .
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Alnico Blue

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Re: Misfire....logical next step?
« Reply #10 on: 29 December 2018, 18:18:28 »

Bet moisture has got into that coilpack and started the demise .

Exactly what I was thinking
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Alnico Blue

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Re: Misfire....logical next step?
« Reply #11 on: 29 December 2018, 18:28:02 »

2-4-6  coil pack on way out  . . .got some  used ones here if you want to try a swap first before buying one  ;)
Thanks for the offer, I will see what I can find in the morning before I drive over but that may really help.

where in North Essex are you ?
I'm in Halstead....

Migv6  is the nearest to you as I recall . . . usually a very helpful chap to us fellow oofers . . .so  might be worth a PM to him as  he might have a 2-4-6 pack knocking about for test  purposes  :-\

When he reads this he may post up  . . or tell us to "Far Cough"  ;D ;D ;D
« Last Edit: 29 December 2018, 18:34:38 by Alnico Blue »
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Re: Misfire....logical next step?
« Reply #12 on: 29 December 2018, 18:50:15 »

2-4-6  coil pack on way out  . . .got some  used ones here if you want to try a swap first before buying one  ;)
Thanks for the offer, I will see what I can find in the morning before I drive over but that may really help.

where in North Essex are you ?
I'm in Halstead....

Migv6  is the nearest to you as I recall . . . usually a very helpful chap to us fellow oofers . . .so  might be worth a PM to him as  he might have a 2-4-6 pack knocking about for test  purposes  :-\

When he reads this he may post up  . . or tell us to "Far Cough"  ;D ;D ;D
Thanks...I will, haven't spoken with him for ages, you're right he's only up the road from me.
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Re: Misfire....logical next step?
« Reply #13 on: 29 December 2018, 21:39:15 »

OK thanks.
When I changed the plugs the spark plug holes were full of water on that side, so maybe that started the problem. I have since sealed the scuttle so hopefully it wont happen again.
I will have ago at checking the sparks on that side tomorrow in the daylight.
Water in no. 6 from leak in the scuttle will cause a misfire. It doesn't often get into 4 and 2, but oil does from a leaking cam cover gasket.
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Re: Misfire....logical next step?
« Reply #14 on: 29 December 2018, 23:10:12 »

Did I hear my name being taken in vain.  >:(…………………………... ;D
Unfortunately I don't have one. Had to buy a new one for my own car not long after I bought it. Iirc it cost about £90.
Mr Alnico - if its easier for you, drop one off to me at work and I will take it to JDX. I reckon that would save you about 40 miles on the return journey. :y
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Re: Misfire....logical next step?
« Reply #15 on: 30 December 2018, 10:27:45 »

Did I hear my name being taken in vain.  >:(…………………………... ;D
Unfortunately I don't have one. Had to buy a new one for my own car not long after I bought it. Iirc it cost about £90.
Mr Alnico - if its easier for you, drop one off to me at work and I will take it to JDX. I reckon that would save you about 40 miles on the return journey. :y
This one looks like good value then?......
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vauxhall-OMEGA-VECTRA-3-2-2-6-V6-IGNITION-MODULE-COIL-PACK-NEW-9118115/311292987580
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Re: Misfire....logical next step?
« Reply #16 on: 30 December 2018, 10:48:32 »

OK thanks.
When I changed the plugs the spark plug holes were full of water on that side, so maybe that started the problem. I have since sealed the scuttle so hopefully it wont happen again.
I will have ago at checking the sparks on that side tomorrow in the daylight.
Water in no. 6 from leak in the scuttle will cause a misfire. It doesn't often get into 4 and 2, but oil does from a leaking cam cover gasket.
The water had got into 2,4 & 6 unfortunately. The car has been sat idle for quite a while outside & not undercover....hey ho!
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Re: Misfire....logical next step?
« Reply #17 on: 30 December 2018, 10:51:35 »

Rather than the scuttle leaking, its far more likely that the lower edge of the windscreen seal isn't fully attached, so you'll want to be checking that before fitting and potentially ruining a new coil pack.
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Re: Misfire....logical next step?
« Reply #18 on: 30 December 2018, 10:53:17 »

For the P1110, make sure you've plugged in the rear multiram, and that its connectors are clean.
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Re: Misfire....logical next step?
« Reply #19 on: 30 December 2018, 11:07:10 »

For the P1110, make sure you've plugged in the rear multiram, and that its connectors are clean.
Thanks.
I did really struggle to connect it before. I had somehow managed to bend one of the pins & it wasn't connected properly. I will take it off again & make sure the connectors are clean. I will also check out the windscreen.  :)
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Re: Misfire....logical next step?
« Reply #20 on: 30 December 2018, 11:59:32 »

So, if there are small cracks on the hard plastic oblong shaped part which is attached to the rubber spark plug boot, I'm assuming the pack is a gonna?
(Iv'e taken a picture but am useless at getting them on here)
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Re: Misfire....logical next step?
« Reply #21 on: 30 December 2018, 12:05:12 »

The cracks are caused by heat soak, these then allow water in which causes the plates inside to rust and separate which causes the plastic case to split... It's a self fulfilling prophecy...

246 side always goes first as the bulkhead foam above the coil pack holds about a pint of water which it drips onto the coilpack.

The seal is as much about keeping dirt out of the plug wells as water... Unfortunately it is not a very good seal ;D
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Re: Misfire....logical next step?
« Reply #22 on: 30 December 2018, 12:15:33 »

Thanks DG, I will get a new one then.
With regards to the bulkhead foam, if it's wet under the drivers side wiper arm hole, would that run across the foam onto the passenger side? It seems unlikely to me. I'm not certain where the water would have come from yet. The seal between the windscreen & the scuttle seems to fit really well, the foam above the passenger side is really dry when you push on it there is no moisture on your hand at all.  :-\
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Re: Misfire....logical next step?
« Reply #23 on: 30 December 2018, 12:45:39 »

If it had been the driver's side the 135 would have been affected  ;)

That said there's also foam underneath the scuttle trim... But water tends to run down the seam at the filler panel that form the inboard end of the pollen filter housing.
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Re: Misfire....logical next step?
« Reply #24 on: 30 December 2018, 13:39:53 »

If it had been the driver's side the 135 would have been affected  ;)

That said there's also foam underneath the scuttle trim... But water tends to run down the seam at the filler panel that form the inboard end of the pollen filter housing.
Right, thanks, good to know... :)
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Re: Misfire....logical next step?
« Reply #25 on: 30 December 2018, 17:46:18 »

Thanks DG, I will get a new one then.
With regards to the bulkhead foam, if it's wet under the drivers side wiper arm hole, would that run across the foam onto the passenger side? It seems unlikely to me. I'm not certain where the water would have come from yet. The seal between the windscreen & the scuttle seems to fit really well, the foam above the passenger side is really dry when you push on it there is no moisture on your hand at all.  :-\
The leak will be between the windscreen and the seal.  Push it back on more firmly.
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Re: Misfire....logical next step?
« Reply #26 on: 30 December 2018, 18:27:36 »

I once experimentally used Araldite to repair the cracks in a 246 coil pack which was causing the EML to come on intermittingly, and had no further problems with it, but I do think I was lucky and caught it at a very early stage of deterioration. Perhaps worth a try.
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Re: Misfire....logical next step?
« Reply #27 on: 30 December 2018, 19:03:10 »

Yes me too . Works fine as a repair but you just need to make sure it’s all nice and dry first. Did my 246 pack 3 years ago and been fine since.
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Re: Misfire....logical next step?
« Reply #28 on: 30 December 2018, 20:45:12 »

Did I hear my name being taken in vain.  >:(…………………………... ;D
Unfortunately I don't have one. Had to buy a new one for my own car not long after I bought it. Iirc it cost about £90.
Mr Alnico - if its easier for you, drop one off to me at work and I will take it to JDX. I reckon that would save you about 40 miles on the return journey. :y
This one looks like good value then?......
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vauxhall-OMEGA-VECTRA-3-2-2-6-V6-IGNITION-MODULE-COIL-PACK-NEW-9118115/311292987580

I bought genine Bosch. That one is unbranded, so could be a bit of a gamble ?  ???
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Re: Misfire....logical next step?
« Reply #29 on: 30 December 2018, 21:28:00 »

I once experimentally used Araldite to repair the cracks in a 246 coil pack which was causing the EML to come on intermittingly, and had no further problems with it, but I do think I was lucky and caught it at a very early stage of deterioration. Perhaps worth a try.
Not great with heat...
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