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Author Topic: No Hot Water!  (Read 986 times)

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STEMO

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Re: No Hot Water!
« Reply #15 on: 09 January 2019, 12:43:09 »

It's about time sir Tig that you paid a professional to fix your heating, instead of continually bodgeing it....
This is a forum full of bodgers repairers.
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Sir Tigger QC

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Re: No Hot Water!
« Reply #16 on: 09 January 2019, 12:52:03 »

It's about time sir Tig that you paid a professional to fix your heating, instead of continually bodgeing it....

Go wash your mouth out with soap and water BG!  :o  :P
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Fuse 19

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Re: No Hot Water!
« Reply #17 on: 09 January 2019, 13:02:45 »

It's about time sir Tig that you paid a professional to fix your heating, instead of continually bodgeing it....

Go wash your mouth out with soap and water BG!  :o  :P

Yes, you should pay through the nose for a professional to bodge it.

(P.S., remove the Honeywell valve head and actuate the valve manually to see if its sticking)
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Sir Tigger QC

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Re: No Hot Water!
« Reply #18 on: 09 January 2019, 13:16:57 »

It's about time sir Tig that you paid a professional to fix your heating, instead of continually bodgeing it....

Go wash your mouth out with soap and water BG!  :o  :P

Yes, you should pay through the nose for a professional to bodge it.

(P.S., remove the Honeywell valve head and actuate the valve manually to see if its sticking)

Done that and the valve moves freely, but not very far.  Not sure if this is normal or not (see above), so I'm off to the local plumbing supplies to inspect theirs. Maybe buy a new one.  ::)

I'm being told elsewhere (diynot.com) that it's my thermostat, as that's what instructs the boiler not the 3 way.  :-\  Can't see how draining down etc could affect the thermostat though....  :-\
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Re: No Hot Water!
« Reply #19 on: 09 January 2019, 13:42:10 »

It's about time sir Tig that you paid a professional to fix your heating, instead of continually bodgeing it....

Go wash your mouth out with soap and water BG!  :o  :P

Yes, you should pay through the nose for a professional to bodge it.

(P.S., remove the Honeywell valve head and actuate the valve manually to see if its sticking)

Done that and the valve moves freely, but not very far.  Not sure if this is normal or not (see above), so I'm off to the local plumbing supplies to inspect theirs. Maybe buy a new one.  ::)

I'm being told elsewhere (diynot.com) that it's my thermostat, as that's what instructs the boiler not the 3 way.  :-\  Can't see how draining down etc could affect the thermostat though....  :-\


On the the next episode of cowboy landords sir Tig from wuzelshire.
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Kevin Wood

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Re: No Hot Water!
« Reply #20 on: 09 January 2019, 14:15:31 »

It's about time sir Tig that you paid a professional to fix your heating, instead of continually bodgeing it....

Go wash your mouth out with soap and water BG!  :o  :P

Yes, you should pay through the nose for a professional to bodge it.

(P.S., remove the Honeywell valve head and actuate the valve manually to see if its sticking)

Done that and the valve moves freely, but not very far.  Not sure if this is normal or not (see above), so I'm off to the local plumbing supplies to inspect theirs. Maybe buy a new one.  ::)

I'm being told elsewhere (diynot.com) that it's my thermostat, as that's what instructs the boiler not the 3 way.  :-\  Can't see how draining down etc could affect the thermostat though....  :-\

If the valve motor was running constantly in any scenario, then there's a problem with the valve. :y
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jimmy944

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Re: No Hot Water!
« Reply #21 on: 09 January 2019, 14:39:43 »



Done that and the valve moves freely, but not very far.  Not sure if this is normal or not (see above), so I'm off to the local plumbing supplies to inspect theirs. Maybe buy a new one.  ::)

I'm being told elsewhere (diynot.com) that it's my thermostat, as that's what instructs the boiler not the 3 way.  :-\  Can't see how draining down etc could affect the thermostat though....  :-\

Far be it from me to cast aspersions on another forum user (but I will anyway), but the DIYnot advice sounds like bobbins. The thermostat is a simple beast, when heating or hot water is "on" (be it by timer or always on) it checks the actual water temp vs target temp and calls the boiler to fire (if required), triggers the pump to spin and triggers the change in the relevant diverter valve. The diverter valve then goes from closed to open and sends a signal back to say its done it. I *believe* that the thermostat looks for this signal, and will lock out your system as a safety measure if it doesn't get the response its expecting. Hence why there are a number of wires to the valve head, otherwise all that would be required are +ve and -ve and ground.

Your boiler fires and power is getting to the valve head. Sounds pretty much like its doing its job to me...If the motor spins but the arm doesn't move, then that's your culprit.

Personally I don't think resistance in the valve is a factor, but you could test this by unscrewing the valve head from the body then setting the hot water going. If you get the same result (ie motor spins for a bit, the arm on the valve head doesn't move then the boiler locks out), which I bet you will, then you've eliminated the valve body from your enquiries.  :y

I've only installed pipework for combi systems up to now. So I only have experience with the 1 in 1 out type valves that are used on central heating systems with multiple zones. But they work on an identical principle and the amount of articulation you are getting from the valve head sounds about right to me.

« Last Edit: 09 January 2019, 14:42:45 by jimmy944 »
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Sir Tigger QC

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Re: No Hot Water!
« Reply #22 on: 09 January 2019, 14:52:13 »

Thanks Jimmy and yes I agree with you on the thermostat.  :y

I checked a 3 way valve in the local plumbing supplier and they don't move very far, so I think the actual valve is OK and as we've been saying all along its the motor.

They had the same one in stock at the plumbing shop........ 101.something!  :o  That was including VAT though.  :y  ;D

I think I'll shop around and use the immersion heater for a while.  :)
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Kevin Wood

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Re: No Hot Water!
« Reply #23 on: 09 January 2019, 15:07:11 »

Worth trying BES. I find them great for plumbing stuff.

https://www.bes.co.uk

Actually, I see they have the Honeywell replacement motor heads.
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Re: No Hot Water!
« Reply #24 on: 09 January 2019, 15:09:11 »

Don't use pattern parts, and check that you inform your insurance afterwards as it could be classed as modification.. :D
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Re: No Hot Water!
« Reply #25 on: 09 January 2019, 15:40:03 »

If you've got a multi-meter, rule out the thermostat.

There should be 5 wires going into the 3-way valve; they are normally coloured, blue, green/yellow, white, grey and orange.
The 2 that deal with the hot water side are the orange and white wires.

If you open up the wiring box and are ok with a multimeter, you can very quickly check.

With the programmer set to turn the hot water on, check the voltage between neutral and the orange wire - if the thermostat is calling for heat, you should get 240v.  If the Thermostat is not calling for heat, then you should see 240v between the neutral and grey wires.
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Entwood

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Re: No Hot Water!
« Reply #26 on: 09 January 2019, 17:38:55 »

Having recently changed the head on my 3-way valve it is a fairly simple thing to check ..(mine is a Myson) ..

With the head removed the backplate shows where to position the D shaped spindle for either DHW (Domestic Hot Water) - D Vertical in my case, CH (Central Heating) - D horizontal - or both - D at 45 degrees .. so the total maximum movement of the valve spindle is 90 degrees.

Still with the head removed, but with the system powered, playing with the heating controls and the tank thermostat you should be able to get the motor to drive between the required positions  (the Myson has 2 neon lights which helps).

In my case the head was not moving the D shaped socket despite the motor whirring and the neon lights changing ... so my guess was the drive had either sheared or the gears had stripped. A new head unit solved the problem easily, and heating / hot water works as they should.

Nice thing about the manual selection indications was we could still have a manually selectable system, using no more than a pair of pliers, to give us what we needed whilst awaiting the new head units arrival and me fitting it ...... :)

HTH
« Last Edit: 09 January 2019, 17:41:01 by Entwood »
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Kevin Wood

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Re: No Hot Water!
« Reply #27 on: 09 January 2019, 17:41:13 »

In fact, the end diagnosis is very similar to that of your BMW. Motor not attached to anything useful any more. ;D
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Re: No Hot Water!
« Reply #28 on: 09 January 2019, 17:49:00 »

The motor whirs, but the position switch dosn't move.  I can move it by hand though....

I gave it a whack, but it's still not behaving.
 
I guess I'll have to take the head unit off and manipulate the valve by hand?
Why not just replace it? They're cheap enough and it's only a couple of compression joints and a bit of simple wiring. Just make sure you make a note of which wires go where.

Sounds simple in isolation. In reality it means water pissing everywhere and poor old Tigger's demise due to electrocution.  :)
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Re: No Hot Water!
« Reply #29 on: 09 January 2019, 17:52:57 »

It would be a fitting tribute to bury him with his elderly and recently demised BMW. :)
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