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Author Topic: 3.0V6 not starting on all cylinders, black smoke, strange errorcodes  (Read 704 times)

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Th0m4s

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Hi,
I bought a 1995 manual Omega 3.0 V6 Caravan some weeks ago. I didn't introduce myself yet because I'm writing from my smartphone. I'm going to do it tomorrow, I promise it ;D.

The problem I have right now is that I bought it not running. The previous owner told me the engine shut down when he stopped the car at a stop light and then it wouldn't start anymore. He tried replacing the crank sensor which unfortunately only made it worse because some other previous owner changed the engine wiring loom for a 97+ one with the newer plugs. That guy built a crank sensor out of an old sensor and a new plug.
I did the same again and now the engine at least starts again... somehow at least. I can start if I push down the accelerator and with some luck it fires up on 4 cylinders but won't idle and it smokes black and smells of fuel. It doesn't burn oil or water.

What I already did is, as I said, changing the crank sensor, new timing belt (because the previous owner gave me one, nothing wrong with the old one), installed new spark plugs, new plug cables, new dis module (because I had a known good one from one of my previous Omegas), checked the compression (all cylinders 11-13bar), checked the injectors without the upper intake half (all giving good atomized squirts of fuel when cranking the engine).
I've also unplugged every sensor but the crank and camshaft sensors and tried to start so the engine had to take failsafe values just in case one of the sensors would give false values and the ECU is trying to drown the engine in fuel but that changed nothing. Still rich and not running right.

The errors I get when the engine is not running because I can't keep it running long enough to get the running error codes are:

21 tps voltage high
54 fuel pump relay voltage high
74 air flow sensor voltage high
29 O2 sensor voltage high

19 crank angle sensor wrong signal (at least this error goes away when the engine crankshaft over

Extremely strange error codes if you ask me.
I'd like to check the engine and sensor grounds but didn't find them all till now. If you could tell me where I should search for them that would help me very much.

The only other possible cause I could think of would be a broken ecu (maybe a transistor for the ignition) but if you know anything I could look for... I'm open for any idea. :)
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Enceladus

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Firing on only four cylinders suggests the coil pack is foobar. Omegas of your vintage have no error codes for coil pack failure. It would also cause unburnt fuel in the cats and that would give you error codes from the O2 sensors. If not fixed the cat matrix will overheat and fracture and potentially block the exhaust. However you reckon you've changed the coil pack for a known good one? But how certain are you that it was good?

Also how sure are you that somebody has changed the loom or parts of it? I expect yours should should have Bosch markings. The Siemens ones might fit but don'e match the ECU. Model year '97 cars were being built in 1996 and it wouldn't surprise me if some variants were being built in 1995. I'd be inclined to try a good crank sensor that is correct for the engine and has the correct connector for the loom.

Is the smell of petrol in the engine bay?

Did you remove or alter the position of the throttle position sensor?

PS. Isn't code 29 for the injector on cylinder 5?
« Last Edit: 14 January 2019, 06:36:13 by Enceladus »
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Fuse 19

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Double check the plug leads are connected in the correct order at the DIS pack, its not as obvious as you think and can create such symptoms
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Th0m4s

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Typing error. It was error 39, not 29.
The dis module is 100% working because my omega from 2000 was running with it. I changed it for an other one because I thought it was broken but in the end it was a damaged signal lead. Also the problem doesn't  change at all when I change the modules in the current omega.
The ECU is definitely one for the old sensors. The type number is ending with HJ and the new style 900 Ohm crank sensor causes errors with it.
Checking the plug leads over and over again was one of the first things I did after I got the engine to start again. They should be in the correct order according to the numbers printed on the dis modules.
By the way I found out there should be ECU grounding connections using 3 screws on top of the dis bracket of the old style dis module (the one with the plug lead connectors pointing towards the fire wall) but where are those grounds with the new style dis module which is mounted with the plug lead connectors pointing towards the engine hood?
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Doctor Gollum

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Perhaps you need to fit the correct DIS pack for the age of the car  :-\
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Th0m4s

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The car already was running with the new style dis module so I don't think that's the problem. It's not like the car never ran before with those Frankenstein like parts.
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Enceladus

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Do you know which cylinders aren't sparking? I'd expect one on each bank if the DIS is bad and the plug leads are all correct. IE One pair out of the three wasted spark pairs. 1 pairs with 4, 3 with 6, 5 with 2.

Other than the mounting screws I don't recall any additional earthing screws.

Code 39 suggests that the Lambda sensor on bank one is not working. Try changing it if you have one. Or swap it onto bank two and see does the error code follow. At this age likely the lambda sensors will fall out if you disturb them. So first.

Bear in mind that the DIS module will only be triggered by the RPM signal from the crank sensor. AIUI there are three different types of sensor. Early ones with a square sided connector. (This might have been X25XE only?) And two later models with oval sided connectors. The oval versions can be Siemens or Bosch and they are not fully interchangeable, even though they might physically fit. I'm not sure who made the square sided version and if it is otherwise electrically similar to the Bosch or Siemens. I suspect it isn't.

So first I'd want to try a known good sensor, intended for your engine and with a correct connector for the loom.

Did they seller give you the crank sensor removed from the car when it failed at the traffic lights? Are there any Bosch or GM numbers on it? As opposed to the one he made up, which you removed.
« Last Edit: 14 January 2019, 17:00:04 by Enceladus »
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Gaffers

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Everything you say points to the DIS module or spark leads.  I would not assume it is working because it looks ok or worked on another vehicle.  The Omega ones are very tempramental.  Check the spark on each cyl and trace back the problem.
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Kevin Wood

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Yep, and the starting enrchment on these engines will foul the plugs in short order if there are any hitches on a cold start, so the plugs need to come out and be dried off anyway. While you're there check they are all sparking.

There was a change in the wiring of the TPS sensor between a couple of variants of the non-DBW V6 which results in it being back to front with some combinations of parts. Might be worth getting some live data out of it to see what the TPS is reporting, as we suspect the loom has been changed.

I'm guessing that TPS is probably the main fuelling input until the engine is established at idle and the MAF has started to work. TPS will also result in "flood clear" mode if it's reporting 100% throttle on a closed throttle, so it will never start unless you've got the accelerator pressed, and then you only get one spot where there's neither massive overfuelling nor not enough!

Lambda sensor errors won't cause a starting problem. They have no input until they have warmed up and begin operating.
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Gray Fox

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Re: 3.0V6 not starting on all cylinders, black smoke, strange errorcodes
« Reply #9 on: 12 February 2019, 05:54:56 »

Hi Tomas,  I read your problem and don't have any answers for you. I just happen to  be a owner of Cadillac Catera that I've  put a lot of work into keeping it running.  Including getting a new coil that was not very good/ran the same as the old ignition coil.  My supplier give me another one, but the work doing it was too much.  If you been there it's barred really deep.  So I read your pain in getting it to run correctly..   Do you get fix?

Gary Fox
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Enceladus

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Re: 3.0V6 not starting on all cylinders, black smoke, strange errorcodes
« Reply #10 on: 12 February 2019, 09:25:51 »

Hi Tomas,  I read your problem and don't have any answers for you. I just happen to  be a owner of Cadillac Catera that I've  put a lot of work into keeping it running.  Including getting a new coil that was not very good/ran the same as the old ignition coil.  My supplier give me another one, but the work doing it was too much.  If you been there it's barred really deep.  So I read your pain in getting it to run correctly..   Do you get fix?

Gary Fox
I suggest that you open up a separate thread on your problems. That helps avoid confusion. A failed coil pack is a right pain. And they all eventually fail. As does the crankshaft sensor.

The good news is that the V6 engines are very robust and durable. So can be kept going with a bit of knowledge and some patience.
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terry paget

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Re: 3.0V6 not starting on all cylinders, black smoke, strange errorcodes
« Reply #11 on: 12 February 2019, 10:05:31 »

Welcome to the Forum, Th0m4s, with your challenging thread.
I have never known an Omega ECU fail, but I had an ECU fail on a Citroen 2.5 GTI turbo2, cured with a soldering iron, and another fail on a Senator 3.0 24valve, cured by substitution. Sadly Omega ECUs are not interchangeable. Your fault does not sound like ECU to me, mine died and stayed dead.
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biggriffin

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Re: 3.0V6 not starting on all cylinders, black smoke, strange errorcodes
« Reply #12 on: 12 February 2019, 14:49:59 »

I'd say dis-pak,  fit a known good one and check that the leads are correctly fitted to the right numbers on dis-pak and corresponding plugs,. Also fit new plugs.

Looking at car  from front, LH 1,3,5. RH 2,4,6.
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