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Author Topic: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?  (Read 1211 times)

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Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« on: 08 May 2019, 08:33:00 »

My mates car has failed the MOT, told it needs a brake fluid change.

Is this correct?
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #1 on: 08 May 2019, 08:37:19 »

It may well need one but don't believe the tester can fail it for that ???

Edit

Looking online it seems that if tester can see contamination of fluid he can fail it
« Last Edit: 08 May 2019, 08:39:27 by henryd »
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #2 on: 08 May 2019, 08:39:53 »

It may well need one but don't believe the tester can fail it for that ???

Exactly, how could they tell!
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #3 on: 08 May 2019, 08:44:10 »

It may well need one but don't believe the tester can fail it for that ???

Exactly, how could they tell!
If the fluid is particularly dark or has obvious bits floating in the reservoir...
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #4 on: 08 May 2019, 08:46:46 »

It may well need one but don't believe the tester can fail it for that ???

Exactly, how could they tell!
If the fluid is particularly dark or has obvious bits floating in the reservoir...

It's not, I've had a look, clean as a whistle, he's going to take it elsewhere.
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #5 on: 08 May 2019, 09:18:05 »

They can check for water content, which doesn't show on a visual inspection. The water can boil off in the brake cylinders and result in inefficient or no brakes!

Ron.
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #6 on: 08 May 2019, 09:20:33 »

My tester has never removed the cap of any car I've taken for a test & unless you did so, IMHO it'd be impossible to tell the state of the fluid  :-\
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #7 on: 08 May 2019, 09:21:31 »

Really, if your brake fluid is the original or hasn't been changed for some time, accept that your tester was doing you a favour and have it changed - the cost is trivial compared to a potential accident or loss of life.....

Ron.
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #8 on: 08 May 2019, 09:35:36 »

Really, if your brake fluid is the original or hasn't been changed for some time, accept that your tester was doing you a favour and have it changed - the cost is trivial compared to a potential accident or loss of life.....

Ron.

But there's no evidence that there is a problem with Barry's mate's car's brake fluid.   ;)
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #9 on: 08 May 2019, 09:45:52 »

Don't they take a sample of the brake fluid and test it in a spectrum analyser or something?  :-\  ::)  ;D

How much are we talking to change the brake fluid anyway?  :-\
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #10 on: 08 May 2019, 10:12:52 »

Really, if your brake fluid is the original or hasn't been changed for some time, accept that your tester was doing you a favour and have it changed - the cost is trivial compared to a potential accident or loss of life.....

Ron.

Spot on , well said that man  :y

even if it's clean looking in the reservoir, who knows what it's like in the calipers,plus it absorbs moisture ,replacing it on a regular basis based on mileage AND age is good practice.

As for the NT (mot tester) he has inspected the brakes,felt pedal travel, brake tested on the rollers (so knows what the brakes are like) and can compare from experience good and bad brakes .

even if it is the cars first MOT , that is 3 year old brake fluid

I think tyres and brakes are pretty important and just meeting the minimum requirements at MOT time warrants at least an advisory , because some people get their MOT certificate and do NO maintenance to their car for another 12 months (next MOT )   :(



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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #11 on: 08 May 2019, 10:30:19 »

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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #12 on: 08 May 2019, 10:52:17 »

I would not recommend Brake fluid testing with cheap Chinese probes that you stick in the reservoir.
the fluid in the calipers is subjected to much bigger temperature differentials ,so calipers can suck in moisture and dirt particles .

brake fluid is cheap,
 if you DIY a brake fluid change and clean up the calipers ,so the pads move  :P the cost is peanuts .

if you have your car serviced by a good garage , the cost of tagging a complete brake fluid change onto the service is minimal (because they have your car on the ramps anyway )



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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #13 on: 08 May 2019, 11:10:37 »

Don't they take a sample of the brake fluid and test it in a spectrum analyser or something?  :-\  ::)  ;D

How much are we talking to change the brake fluid anyway?  :-\
Ah...the old rectum paralyiser, haven't used one of them for over 40 years.  ;D
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #14 on: 08 May 2019, 11:16:49 »

Really, if your brake fluid is the original or hasn't been changed for some time, accept that your tester was doing you a favour and have it changed - the cost is trivial compared to a potential accident or loss of life.....

Ron.

Spot on , well said that man  :y

even if it's clean looking in the reservoir, who knows what it's like in the calipers,plus it absorbs moisture ,replacing it on a regular basis based on mileage AND age is good practice.

As for the NT (mot tester) he has inspected the brakes,felt pedal travel, brake tested on the rollers (so knows what the brakes are like) and can compare from experience good and bad brakes .

even if it is the cars first MOT , that is 3 year old brake fluid

I think tyres and brakes are pretty important and just meeting the minimum requirements at MOT time warrants at least an advisory , because some people get their MOT certificate and do NO maintenance to their car for another 12 months (next MOT )   :(

No one is denying that Dave, but this seems to be the first that anyone here has heard of brake fluid being an MOT fail.
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #15 on: 08 May 2019, 11:24:56 »

I'm not sure about in the new, more stringent MOT regulations, but even under the old ones it would be covered by overall braking efficiency. No specific requirement to check the fluid, but if that tester found the brake test results to be marginal, then all credit to him for checking the fluid - he is on the OP's side! :y

Ron.
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #16 on: 08 May 2019, 11:26:10 »


Changes to testable items and defects from 20 May

There's a major overhaul of the MOT testers' manual that came in at the same time as the new defect categories.

There's a long list of changes with some new checks added, some existing checks updated and a few failure items removed.  Changes include:


New items

Brake fluid contamination
Daytime running lights
Front fog lights
Reversing lamps
Light source and lamp not compatible - Halogen headlamps converted for HID bulbs will fail
Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) obviously falsified
Brake lining or pad wear indicator illuminated
Engine malfunction indicator lamp
Exhaust gas recirculation valve
NOx sensor
Evidence that a Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) has been tampered with
Any visible smoke from a vehicle with DPF
Stricter limits for emissions from diesels with a DPF
Fluid leaks other than coolant and Adblue
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #17 on: 08 May 2019, 11:32:20 »

However the mot tester is not allowed to dismantle anything... would taking the cap off be dismantling?..   Brakes were probably crap on the rollers so he checked the fluid itís very hydroscopic and the higher the dot dot 4 dot 5 the more it is. Remember the days of dot3.
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #18 on: 08 May 2019, 11:33:05 »

 do i,-  if i was to change the fluid on my omega do i just open the bleed nipple at the furthest from the reservoir & wait till clean fluid comes through ?? mine is in for its m.o.t at the mo.

 

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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #19 on: 08 May 2019, 12:15:09 »

You need to replace the fluid in lines and calipers, so you have to bleed each nipple until you get fresh fluid at them all. In this case, I would start at the closest and work round ensuring that the reservoir never runs dry.
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #20 on: 08 May 2019, 12:25:10 »

The new MOT testable items have been in effect since may last year , so nearly 12 months, and was well publicized long before it came into effect .

some items do not apply across the board , eg , reversing lights on vehicles first used from 1 September 2009
Headlamp washers tested on vehicles first used on or after 1 September 2009
daytime running lights on vehicles first used from 1 March 2018

another item that has been testable for a while is trailer wiring ,however there is no standard for 7 pin socket wiring , so only 13 pin plugs should be tested for operation
(but all can fail on dangerous wiring etc)

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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #21 on: 08 May 2019, 12:27:28 »

You need to replace the fluid in lines and calipers, so you have to bleed each nipple until you get fresh fluid at them all. In this case, I would start at the closest and work round ensuring that the reservoir never runs dry.
ok thanks . not been done for since dont know when.
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #22 on: 08 May 2019, 12:28:29 »

They don't physically test the brake fluid, its inspection only.

AA, what was the exact failure reference code, it may have been for a braking issue and they are proposing a fluid change may fix it.

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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #23 on: 08 May 2019, 12:47:46 »

You need to replace the fluid in lines and calipers, so you have to bleed each nipple until you get fresh fluid at them all. In this case, I would start at the closest and work round ensuring that the reservoir never runs dry.
ok thanks . not been done for since dont know when.
I genuinely believe you will notice an improvement in pedal feel and braking when brake fluid is replaced  :y
(assuming the brakes are bled correctly and the calipers are free )
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #24 on: 08 May 2019, 13:49:19 »

I used to experience brake fluid boiling in my rallying days, the 1960s, have not known it since. Now I change the brake fluid because Vx advises it lest corrosion damages the ABS valves, though I have never heard of it happening.
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #25 on: 08 May 2019, 15:57:20 »

I used to experience brake fluid boiling in my rallying days, the 1960s, have not known it since. Now I change the brake fluid because Vx advises it lest corrosion damages the ABS valves, though I have never heard of it happening.
[/quote
               Yes, Iím using dot5 in the Evo in which I do a few track days and is a definite improvement, obviously Iím using racing pads too so the brakes get a lot hotter and need the higher spec fluid. As for the OP a simple bleeding of the brakes can only be of benefit, and you will know itís done for sure this time ::)
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #26 on: 08 May 2019, 16:28:59 »

do i,-  if i was to change the fluid on my omega do i just open the bleed nipple at the furthest from the reservoir & wait till clean fluid comes through ?? mine is in for its m.o.t at the mo.
i always did  empty the the oil pan fully via the sump plug.
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #27 on: 08 May 2019, 16:48:03 »

do i,-  if i was to change the fluid on my omega do i just open the bleed nipple at the furthest from the reservoir & wait till clean fluid comes through ?? mine is in for its m.o.t at the mo.
i always did  empty the the oil pan fully via the sump plug.
won't help your brakes much  ;D
or are you posting in the wrong thread   :-\ :y
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #28 on: 08 May 2019, 16:58:07 »

do i,-  if i was to change the fluid on my omega do i just open the bleed nipple at the furthest from the reservoir & wait till clean fluid comes through ?? mine is in for its m.o.t at the mo.
i always did  empty the the oil pan fully via the sump plug.
won't help your brakes much  ;D
or are you posting in the wrong thread   :-\ :y
It's an age thing :D
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #29 on: 08 May 2019, 17:05:18 »

I used to experience brake fluid boiling in my rallying days, the 1960s, have not known it since. Now I change the brake fluid because Vx advises it lest corrosion damages the ABS valves, though I have never heard of it happening.

It's not just the ABS valves but all seals and wet components in the system. Neglecting the fluid is a false economy, as you'll soon find yourself with leaking seals, rusting pistons and so on, even if your driving style doesn't regularly test the boiling point of the fluid. :y 

I tend to pull some fresh fluid through whatever branch of the system I'm working on whenever I'm changing the brake pads. I loosen the bleed nipple to expel the old fluid as I'm retracting the caliper piston, so it's little extra effort to hook up the eezibleed and squirt a bit of new fluid through*.


*- unless some muppet lets the eezibleed run out and fills the system with compressed air instead. :-[
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #30 on: 08 May 2019, 17:06:58 »

A little cheat for you all, extract the fluid from the master, and refill with fresh,. Or do it properly and bleed new fluid right thro.
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #31 on: 08 May 2019, 17:12:17 »

Yes, forgot to say, that before I do a fluid change I syringe the old fluid out of the reservoir as far as possible. This fluid is probably the worst, as it is in contact with air, so you need to repolace it first, or make sure you bleed enough through to ensure it's all gone.

It's less easy to suck all the fluid out of the reservoir section for the rear brakes, as there's a partition in the reservoir that separates the two sections.
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #32 on: 08 May 2019, 17:15:49 »

A little cheat for you all, extract the fluid from the master, and refill with fresh,.
won't make your brakes work any better , just fools the MOT tester into giving you a piece of paper to say your car met minimum requirements during the 45 minutes he inspected it *

* unless it's a phone up with the Reg. MOT ,car not present  :P

  do it properly and bleed new fluid right thro.
a much better way  :y
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #33 on: 08 May 2019, 17:53:37 »

I used to experience brake fluid boiling in my rallying days, the 1960s, have not known it since.
Try a brisk drive across MK.  That'll heat 'em up, and test them thoroughly.
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #34 on: 08 May 2019, 18:00:09 »

I've never had the brake fluid changed on any car that I've owned.
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #35 on: 08 May 2019, 18:10:04 »

I've never had the brake fluid changed on any car that I've owned.
:o
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #36 on: 08 May 2019, 18:18:11 »

I've never had the brake fluid changed on any car that I've owned.

are you saying you drive the car till the brakes fail and you crash, then buy another  ;D :D
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #37 on: 08 May 2019, 18:19:26 »

However the mot tester is not allowed to dismantle anything... would taking the cap off be dismantling?..   Brakes were probably crap on the rollers so he checked the fluid itís very hydroscopic and the higher the dot dot 4 dot 5 the more it is. Remember the days of dot3.

Hygroscopic  ;)
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #38 on: 08 May 2019, 18:25:25 »

I've never had the brake fluid changed on any car that I've owned.


I've never noticed any improvement from changing the fluid. Adjusting or freeing off stuck components ALWAYS makes a difference. A long pedal or poor handbrake are reliable symptoms of such issues that need to be fixed.


Checking for odd brake wear patterns and fluid loss is one of the jobs you do whilst the oil is draining. Actually doing that would be a good justification for the short oil changes recommended here.
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #39 on: 08 May 2019, 18:29:29 »

You need to replace the fluid in lines and calipers, so you have to bleed each nipple until you get fresh fluid at them all. In this case, I would start at the closest and work round ensuring that the reservoir never runs dry.

And that still doesn't replace the fluid in the ABS pump ..... you need a way of cycling the pump to do so.
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #40 on: 08 May 2019, 18:29:52 »

I've never owned a new car long enough to have needed to have had the brake fluid changed on any car.
More like...  ::)
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #41 on: 08 May 2019, 19:16:38 »

I've never owned a new car long enough or with a high enough mileage to have needed to have had the brake fluid changed on any car.
More like...  ::)
Fixed.  ::)
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #42 on: 08 May 2019, 19:22:03 »

I've never owned a new car long enough or with a high enough mileage to have needed to have had the brake fluid changed on any car.
More like...  ::)
Fixed.  ::)
Brake fluid change is a time thing ..... not distance/mileage   ;) ;)
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #43 on: 08 May 2019, 19:23:17 »

I've never owned a new car long enough or with a high enough mileage to have needed to have had the brake fluid changed on any car.
More like...  ::)
Fixed.  ::)
Brake fluid change is a time thing ..... not distance/mileage   ;) ;)
Not for me it isn't  ;D
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #44 on: 08 May 2019, 19:25:31 »

Uncle Stemo don't use his brakes much anyway
the locals all move out of his way , out of FEAR respect  :y
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #45 on: 08 May 2019, 19:34:58 »

Uncle Stemo don't use his brakes much anyway
the locals all move out of his way , out of FEAR respect  :y
I've never been one for over-thinking things. Why bother with preventative maintenance when you chuck you car every few years? Someone else gets all my saved up problems.  :)

I might just run this one until it dies, though, so I can laugh when eff all goes wrong after years of neglect.
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #46 on: 08 May 2019, 19:35:50 »

Let's do oil changes now. Once a year regardless of mileage for me.  ;D
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #47 on: 08 May 2019, 19:43:53 »

Let's do oil changes now. Once a year regardless of mileage for me.  ;D
shall I save you my nearly new (3,000 mile) oil , save you buying new  :-\  ;D

astras don't throw up many issues till 100k even if abused
then sell it to Terry  :y  :D ;D
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #48 on: 08 May 2019, 19:50:20 »

Let's do oil changes now. Once a year regardless of mileage for me.  ;D
shall I save you my nearly new (3,000 mile) oil , save you buying new  :-\  ;D

astras don't throw up many issues till 100k even if abused
then sell it to Terry  :y  :D ;D
My only concern is the auto box, but it doesn't worry me enough to consider maintenance.  ;D
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #49 on: 08 May 2019, 20:13:48 »

However the mot tester is not allowed to dismantle anything... would taking the cap off be dismantling?..   Brakes were probably crap on the rollers so he checked the fluid itís very hydroscopic and the higher the dot dot 4 dot 5 the more it is. Remember the days of dot3.

Hygroscopic  ;)
.             Aye, funny thing, thatís what I wrote first time then I  (thought) I corrected it :-\
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #50 on: 08 May 2019, 21:24:11 »

However the mot tester is not allowed to dismantle anything... would taking the cap off be dismantling?..   Brakes were probably crap on the rollers so he checked the fluid itís very hydroscopic and the higher the dot dot 4 dot 5 the more it is. Remember the days of dot3.

Hygroscopic  ;)
.             Aye, funny thing, thatís what I wrote first time then I  (thought) I corrected it :-\

 For years throughout my apprenticeship I was told it was hydroscopic .....  :-\
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #51 on: 09 May 2019, 21:37:49 »

I hardly ever use the brakes in earnest.  Anticipation is great. I rarely go near hills either. 
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #52 on: 10 May 2019, 07:21:46 »

Let's do oil changes now. Once a year regardless of mileage for me.  ;D
shall I save you my nearly new (3,000 mile) oil , save you buying new  :-\  ;D

astras don't throw up many issues till 100k even if abused
then sell it to Terry  :y  :D ;D

My only concern is the auto box, but it doesn't worry me enough to consider maintenance.  ;D

No real worries there, its one of the best FWD autos there is
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #53 on: 10 May 2019, 11:05:00 »

I hardly ever use the brakes in earnest.  Anticipation is great. I rarely go near hills either.

                 Never been to earnest,  flat is it?
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #54 on: 10 May 2019, 11:20:39 »

I hardly ever use the brakes in earnest.  Anticipation is great. I rarely go near hills either.

                 Never been to earnest,  flat is it?
:D ;D
testing your brakes should be done on a regular basis IMHO
in anticipation for that one time you do need to stop pronto
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #55 on: 10 May 2019, 11:30:18 »

I hardly ever use the brakes in earnest.  Anticipation is great. I rarely go near hills either.

                 Never been to earnest,  flat is it?
:D ;D
testing your brakes should be done on a regular basis IMHO
in anticipation for that one time you do need to stop pronto

.. on the approach to every roundabout, for example. ::)
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #56 on: 10 May 2019, 11:42:32 »

I hardly ever use the brakes in earnest.  Anticipation is great. I rarely go near hills either.

                 Never been to earnest,  flat is it?
:D ;D
testing your brakes should be done on a regular basis IMHO
in anticipation for that one time you do need to stop pronto

.. on the approach to every roundabout, for example. ::)
to clarify,"testing"  when safe to do so, at speed ,to a quick stop
lifting off the gogo pedal will inform the Devil in the gearbox to reduce the speed prior to roundabouts  :-\ with a light tap of the stop pedal to inform the tailgaters
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #57 on: 10 May 2019, 11:59:23 »

Clearly never enjoyed TB behind the wheel :D
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #58 on: 10 May 2019, 12:04:51 »

Clearly never enjoyed TB behind the wheel :D
I'd imagine TB's brakes get tested "on a regular basis"  ;D
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #59 on: 10 May 2019, 13:10:45 »

Tested is a stretch ;D
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #60 on: 10 May 2019, 16:01:38 »

Tested is a stretch ;D

Tested .. to destruction sometimes. ;D
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #61 on: 10 May 2019, 18:21:01 »

All my cars have come equipped with brakes. May as well make use of 'em.
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #62 on: 10 May 2019, 20:50:03 »

Well if theyíre there........
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #63 on: 10 May 2019, 21:26:18 »

The "emergency brake" (handbrake ) on Omega was just parts left over from late 1980s Carltons ,senators
try using it above 2 MPH and it will just groan at you for disturbing it , or grenade to give your emergency stop attempt a metal grinding sound track  ;D
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #64 on: 10 May 2019, 21:49:38 »

The "emergency brake" (handbrake ) on Omega was just parts left over from late 1980s Carltons ,senators
try using it above 2 MPH and it will just groan at you for disturbing it , or grenade to give your emergency stop attempt a metal grinding sound track  ;D

On my first Omega I used the handbrake at speed .... to errr...... change direction. It worked as intended but it was an auto, and it's fair to say that an auto does not like being stopped instantly. I never did it again.  :-[
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Re: Brake fluid change - MOT fail?
« Reply #65 on: 11 May 2019, 09:50:41 »

The "emergency brake" (handbrake ) on Omega was just parts left over from late 1980s Carltons ,senators
try using it above 2 MPH and it will just groan at you for disturbing it , or grenade to give your emergency stop attempt a metal grinding sound track  ;D

On my first Omega I used the handbrake at speed .... to errr...... change direction. It worked as intended but it was an auto, and it's fair to say that an auto does not like being stopped instantly. I never did it again.  :-[
I never noticed the auto complaining too much - though obviously RWD - but never found an Omega with the same instant grab needed for such 3 point turns, it always ended up being a bit half arsed.

Now my last Rover, that was perfect on the handbrake. So much so, it was usually used to line the car up properly for carparks.  And in the 116k I had it, I never, ever touched the rear brakes on that, just tightened the cable once.
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