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Author Topic: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme  (Read 682 times)

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Varche

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Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« on: 08 May 2019, 18:29:05 »

Well done Scotland introducing 20p refund on bottles and tinnies.

We are going to Scotland next week. Bring your empties to my dads house. I need a vehicle full. Should pay for the trip including 5star hotels. Particularly interested in those small tonic tins.  :y
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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #1 on: 08 May 2019, 18:35:21 »

There was always money back on pop bottles and the like when I was a kid.

Why did it stop?
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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #2 on: 08 May 2019, 18:40:16 »

Maybe because of the adoption of plastic bottles, which cannot be sterilised and re-used? Ask Lizzie.....

Ron.
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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #3 on: 08 May 2019, 18:46:41 »

Maybe because of the adoption of plastic bottles, which cannot be sterilised and re-used? Ask Lizzie.....

Ron.


You're quite bright for somebody from Essex. :y
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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #4 on: 08 May 2019, 18:46:58 »

It'd cost a gazillion in fuel to drive an omega up north to Scotland . :o
plus,  cans and bottles are shopping items , you can't put shopping items into an Omega without seriously upsetting the suspension geometry  ::)

as proved by me to Mrs Builder on Monday , we hit a bird on the way down (laden with cakes/donuts) ,we got back much quicker and hit nothing  :y
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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #5 on: 08 May 2019, 18:54:38 »

Top tip there dtb :y for all Omega owners never go shopping in it :D yep pop bottles were returned to shop[several times after the shop keeper had stacked the empties outside the back of the shop :-X].Milk bottles were obviously recycled [unless being used as sky rocket launchers]because the milk man would collect them when leaving the next days delivery.
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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #6 on: 08 May 2019, 18:57:09 »

Wouldn't consider it in a gas guzzling monster with geometry upset by something as awful as a load.

We brought a car load of lemons over with us , no adverse effects. Had a free meal in France on some of them . The local market was selling mawky Spanish lemons at 6.80 euros a kilo.
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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #7 on: 08 May 2019, 18:59:38 »

Top tip there dtb :y for all Omega owners never go shopping in it :D yep pop bottles were returned to shop[several times after the shop keeper had stacked the empties outside the back of the shop :-X].Milk bottles were obviously recycled [unless being used as sky rocket launchers]because the milk man would collect them when leaving the next days delivery.

Yep.......we would climb over the wall and steal the bottles they had just given us 6d each for.... ;D ;D
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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #8 on: 08 May 2019, 19:02:24 »

Wouldn't consider it in a gas guzzling monster with geometry upset by something as awful as a load.

We brought a car load of lemons over with us , no adverse effects. Had a free meal in France on some of them . The local market was selling mawky Spanish lemons at 6.80 euros a kilo.

 :-X :-X sssshhh !  :-X  :-X
Mrs Builder may read that , she has an Astra estate for shopping  ::)
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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #9 on: 08 May 2019, 19:06:20 »

There is a chap comes round here once a week with a pick up truck type of vehicle loaded with crates of pop-in proper glass bottles-basically going door to door selling them.With your first order he charges 10p per bottle extra which he then deducts off your next weeks order when you give him back the empties.
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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #10 on: 08 May 2019, 19:27:39 »

Maybe because of the adoption of plastic bottles, which cannot be sterilised and re-used? Ask Lizzie.....

Ron.


You're quite bright for somebody from Essex. :y

I'll have you know that I am NOT from Essex - I'm a true Londoner, from back in the days when it belonged to Londoners and not the shitty incomers that get there now.

Ron.
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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #11 on: 08 May 2019, 19:38:34 »

Maybe because of the adoption of plastic bottles, which cannot be sterilised and re-used? Ask Lizzie.....

Ron.
By the time I lived in London, Bow had gone to the.......you know.....unmentionables.


You're quite bright for somebody from Essex. :y

I'll have you know that I am NOT from Essex - I'm a true Londoner, from back in the days when it belonged to Londoners and not the shitty incomers that get there now.

Ron.
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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #12 on: 08 May 2019, 19:46:39 »

Maybe because of the adoption of plastic bottles, which cannot be sterilised and re-used? Ask Lizzie.....

Ron.

Because the fizzy drink producers realised that it was cheaper, more convenient, and better for their business to swap to plastic, which could hold more liquid (now up 3 litres) and therefore could increase the amount being sold.

In addition, the storage of empty bottles and crates used up valuable space in retail units, which as supermarkets grew bigger and space was, and is now continually measured for it's retail sales value, the cost of storage was unacceptable.  More importantly, the transport used, and handling methods changed, with instead of the 1960's drinks lorries designed for small deliveries and collections of empties, large covered, open sided trucks took their place. A single driver, with fork lift assistance from the warehouse staff of CDC's, could unload tons of bulk drinks quickly, and not be held up with loading empties. The reduction in costs was dramatic, efficiency was much improved, and more pop was sold in bulk than ever before, unloaded from larger and larger lorries that were cheaper to run and could carry tons more of product on pallets.

Now the planet is paying for that "advance", so now the public will have to swallow the extra financial costs incurred by winding back on the "progress" that reverting to smaller, heavier glass bottles, will bring.  But, if we can save the planet, I am all for it! :y
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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #13 on: 08 May 2019, 19:51:54 »

There is a chap comes round here once a week with a pick up truck type of vehicle loaded with crates of pop-in proper glass bottles-basically going door to door selling them.With your first order he charges 10p per bottle extra which he then deducts off your next weeks order when you give him back the empties.


That's what Peter Kay got his Rola Cola gag from ...... Corona Pop van  :y
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #14 on: 08 May 2019, 19:57:41 »

There is a chap comes round here once a week with a pick up truck type of vehicle loaded with crates of pop-in proper glass bottles-basically going door to door selling them.With your first order he charges 10p per bottle extra which he then deducts off your next weeks order when you give him back the empties.

You are obviously in a wonderful time warp based in the 1960's Baza :D :y

How much does he charge though for his bottles of pop and what does each bottle contain?  Bet it is not 11d for 14 fluid ounces ;D
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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #15 on: 08 May 2019, 20:02:19 »

Written by someone who has clearly never done a store delivwry ;D
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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #16 on: 08 May 2019, 20:05:57 »

Written by someone who has clearly never done a store delivwry ;D

Please explain ;)
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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #17 on: 08 May 2019, 20:45:18 »

Quote
and not be held up with loading empties
;D ;D ;D...   ;D ;D ;D

Empty bottles perhaps not, but empty roll cages and totes and pallets and recycling and returns... And that's whilst working around the remaining deliveries and keeping the load balanced  ::)
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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #18 on: 08 May 2019, 20:51:29 »

He initially charges 1 per bottle-obviously then 90p per bottle with the 10p refund.Bottles a 1 litre size.Living in a time warp? yes but do remember it's Scunny we're talking about here.The latest people carrier of the year award was won by to the Ox cart :D ;D ;D ;D
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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #19 on: 08 May 2019, 21:02:37 »

Use to go round the back of the off-sales at the pub, grab half a dozen lemonade bottles, take them to the pub down the high st, then buy sweets and more pop from that off sales.  Eventually they all got to know, and that scheme ended for us.
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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #20 on: 08 May 2019, 21:15:04 »

You're all a bunch of bloody crims!  ;D
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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #21 on: 08 May 2019, 21:20:02 »

Quote
and not be held up with loading empties
;D ;D ;D...   ;D ;D ;D

Empty bottles perhaps not, but empty roll cages and totes and pallets and recycling and returns... And that's whilst working around the remaining deliveries and keeping the load balanced  ::)

Why are you making fun of that? ::) ::) ::)

You are the one speaking without knowledge.  Believe me the handling of the cages and pallets being returned, even when loaded with returned product or recycling material is nothing and does not take long at all.  Even with a full 20 cage and pallet delivery it takes 15 minutes with experienced warehouse staff, to take it all in, and send back the returns. They roll off and on, with pallet pump trucks moving the pallets stacked high. 

The handling of crates of glass bottles, running into thousands for a fair sized store, would however take a lot of extra handling, and as they would have a value, require checking. I remember when a dozen medium sized (Corona, R.Whites, and the like) would be packed in a plastic crate, and even stacked 5 high would be awkward to shift, usually on a sack truck.  Now, if 2ltr glass bottles were transported, away from their original factory packaging, in the thousands that a store could take in from customers returning in the quantities they now buy them in (totally different than the 1960's), then it will take extra storage space in stores that do not have that now, extra manpower to handle them, and conceivably, a separate truck to transport them away from the store back to a CDC (who would then have all the handling and storage issues repeated).  Even if the drinks producer has a truck specially to take the returns back from the store, there would be still the extra storage, handling and transport costs.  For the producer taking back the empties, they would have to have new plant to wash, inspect, and re-commission those before being re-used.

All the way along the line extra handling costs, plus all the others, would be involved.  The only answer to that would be to smash the return bottles when they come back into store (like the cans returned are planned to be crushed), but then industry has the problem of handling even more recycled glass, with all the extra transport and plant costs.
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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #22 on: 08 May 2019, 21:23:39 »

He initially charges 1 per bottle-obviously then 90p per bottle with the 10p refund.Bottles a 1 litre size.Living in a time warp? yes but do remember it's Scunny we're talking about here.The latest people carrier of the year award was won by to the Ox cart :D ;D ;D ;D

That sounds like a good deal and service to me, being delivered to your door with no plastic waste.  Perhaps it is going back in time that we need to do, but is the current average, something for nothing, always the cheapest, member of the public prepared to pay more for less? ;)
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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #23 on: 08 May 2019, 21:26:12 »

OK LZ... When did you last work in either a warehouse or a delivery lorry?

And I don't mean as a manager...
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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #24 on: 08 May 2019, 21:35:21 »

OK LZ... When did you last work in either a warehouse or a delivery lorry?

And I don't mean as a manager...

12 years ago, and as a senior manager travelling around multiple stores I witnessed the latest methods of deliveries from CDC's and direct from suppliers, and taking note of security, staffing and H&S issues apart from general operational matters.

Before all that, going back almost 40 years, I started on the shop floor and experienced all the relevant requirements of handling supplier deliveries before having a career in Operations that meant dealing with managerial short comings in stock receipt and returns ; mainly of a security nature to restrict massive risks of theft.
Now DG, when did you last work in the retail field within a national store network? ;)
« Last Edit: 08 May 2019, 21:42:52 by Lizzie Zoom »
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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #25 on: 08 May 2019, 21:40:22 »

January this year.  :P but I digress...

So you've never actually had to experience the delights of personally loading 100+ stacked cages onto a truck using a tail lift?
Or off loading 5-600kg cages three at a time on a tail lift? In the rain...

Oh, and 12 years ago is not recent ;)
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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #26 on: 08 May 2019, 22:07:13 »

January this year.  :P but I digress...

So you've never actually had to experience the delights of personally loading 100+ stacked cages onto a truck using a tail lift?
Or off loading 5-600kg cages three at a time on a tail lift? In the rain...

Oh, and 12 years ago is not recent ;)

I have explained my extensive experience, but still you rabbit on about the hard work of loading an articulated lorry. I have explained that UNLOADING an artic of 20 pallets, sometimes it was the maximum 22, is not a problem for experienced warehouse staff, with the aid of a good driver.  Yes, pushing on stacked cages (for H&S reasons you are talking 'dangle berries' about loading 100+ at one time onto a 44 tonner, although I suspect you said that for effect rather than reality).

Obviously, unlike you, I am a retired senior business manager and have not needed to unload or unload any truck for many years.  What I was explaining in my previous piece was the retail technicalities of handling thousands of returning glass pop bottles. My 40 years experience, even if it professionally ended with retirement 12 years ago, although that or 1 year ago would make no difference. Dealing with CDC consignments and those direct from suppliers have not changed.

But of course, in typical DG fashion, you try and pick holes in something I post, this time in a field I know very well, with cynicism. I was expressing my beliefs, as everyone else on the OOF does.  Just live with it, and stop this age old cynical attack you mount every time I state what I believe.

Why you do it, I do not know or care. Go and be cynical with the men on here! >:(
« Last Edit: 08 May 2019, 22:10:33 by Lizzie Zoom »
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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #27 on: 08 May 2019, 22:13:26 »

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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #28 on: 08 May 2019, 22:19:41 »

Lizzie & DG   ;D

 ;D ;D ;D ;D

I remember that sketch well, and it is as funny now as it was then.  Good that you found it again Dave ;D :y
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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #29 on: 08 May 2019, 22:55:31 »

I laughed at a comment you made. You asked me what was so funny and I explained.

You then got all pissy with me because I asked when you last actually delivered anything.  ;D

Empty cages stack together, ergo a truck that can take 30-40 loaded cages will carry substantially more empty ones. Had you ever handled them, you would know that. But all your experience appears to be in management and as everyone on the floor will tell you, managers never ask the staff what works and what doesn't.  ::)

We had two hydraulic loading docks, which would hold either 6 cages or three full size pallets (you could fit four on but would then have to climb over the railing to operate it and access the truck).

Everything loaded onto the truck was then off loaded via the tail lift which had capacity to carry three cages or two full sized pallets, (without space for the pump truck).

On a good day, each truck had a pump truck and the warehouse had three and each loading bay had three. On a bad day, you were lucky if there was one either end... Rest assured, unloading using a single pump truck takes alot longer... Especially when you are folding and unfolding the safety flaps every time.

And modern staffing practices dictate that you work out how many staff are required, then automatically reduce this by 10%. Then employ 20% fewer staff than that and expect everything to be done to a stupidly high corporate standard. Which was set by a manager who had never done the job in question. And because everywhere is run on minimal staffing levels, the driver has to load and unload the truck, whilst justifying why it takes so long.

Well, you asked...
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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #30 on: 08 May 2019, 23:34:26 »

Corona Cherryaid was my favourite when I was a kid!  :y

Can you still get it?  ???  :-\
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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #31 on: 08 May 2019, 23:42:16 »

Cream soda. Lovely stuff.  :)
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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #32 on: 09 May 2019, 00:09:45 »

I always found Cream Soda a bit sweet and sickly.  :-\

So Corona did Lemonade, Limeade, Cherryade, Orangeade and Cream Soda.  :)

Any others?  ???  :-\  Appleade?  :-\
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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #33 on: 09 May 2019, 00:18:58 »

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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #34 on: 09 May 2019, 06:50:44 »

I laughed at a comment you made. You asked me what was so funny and I explained.

You then got all pissy with me because I asked when you last actually delivered anything.  ;D

Empty cages stack together, ergo a truck that can take 30-40 loaded cages will carry substantially more empty ones. Had you ever handled them, you would know that. But all your experience appears to be in management and as everyone on the floor will tell you, managers never ask the staff what works and what doesn't.  ::)

We had two hydraulic loading docks, which would hold either 6 cages or three full size pallets (you could fit four on but would then have to climb over the railing to operate it and access the truck).

Everything loaded onto the truck was then off loaded via the tail lift which had capacity to carry three cages or two full sized pallets, (without space for the pump truck).

On a good day, each truck had a pump truck and the warehouse had three and each loading bay had three. On a bad day, you were lucky if there was one either end... Rest assured, unloading using a single pump truck takes alot longer... Especially when you are folding and unfolding the safety flaps every time.

And modern staffing practices dictate that you work out how many staff are required, then automatically reduce this by 10%. Then employ 20% fewer staff than that and expect everything to be done to a stupidly high corporate standard. Which was set by a manager who had never done the job in question. And because everywhere is run on minimal staffing levels, the driver has to load and unload the truck, whilst justifying why it takes so long.

Well, you asked...
.

Now I have a little bit of experience in this field.

99% of CDC take a minimum of 2-3hrs to unload a full 26plt load, at shift start more staff a allocated to loading own vehicles, normally 4 at most for goods in,  loading cages is a flipping ball ache, and as for unloading them, even worse, and when you have a tri-temp fridge with 4 plus delivery on,  moving all the chill and ambient to get 1 frozen cage, then put them all back, then the cages of waste,  then there's the numerous drivers injured by cages rolling off tail lifts, as DG says management haven't a clue what goes on, or even care.

Basically all waste- return for recycling at the de-kit-reycling centre needs to be done by 1 truck returning empty from each store, but the drivers will avoid picking waste up at all cost, as it's a pain to work around full cages of waste.

Drop 1 tip full cages, collect waste.
Drop 2 move full cages of waste, unload moving full product cages from back and front, reload them cages, put more waste cages on. 
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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #35 on: 09 May 2019, 08:49:47 »

Corona Cherryaid was my favourite when I was a kid!  :y

Can you still get it?  ???  :-\

That was mine as well :y
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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #36 on: 09 May 2019, 09:18:29 »

Surely the recycled items need collecting from outlets like supermarkets, by the recycling contractor?

While on the subject , why isnt there a common uk policy on what can and cannot be recycled? What is Gove doing?

I am staying at my dads and he has a ludicrous recycling regime ( which we follow of course). The best is dirty plastics e.g. packaging that Hunters chicken came in, gets thrown away . Only clean solid plastic ( like a washed out milk container) gets recycled. The conflict between saving water and recycling is clear!
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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #37 on: 09 May 2019, 10:11:50 »

If only V... Most of it goes back to the RDC so that the managers have something to do can monitor it.

Reality is that it's cheaper to have it collected in bulk from a handful of sites rather than having a nationwide contract in place. Also it means that the empty/dead mileage is reduced as the savings pay for the return journey. Hauling air doesn't pay the bills...
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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #38 on: 09 May 2019, 10:47:33 »

I always found Cream Soda a bit sweet and sickly.  :-\

So Corona did Lemonade, Limeade, Cherryade, Orangeade and Cream Soda.  :)

Any others?  ???  :-\  Appleade?  :-\


Do you have any teeth?
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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #39 on: 09 May 2019, 11:13:34 »

I laughed at a comment you made. You asked me what was so funny and I explained.

You then got all pissy with me because I asked when you last actually delivered anything.  ;D

Empty cages stack together, ergo a truck that can take 30-40 loaded cages will carry substantially more empty ones. Had you ever handled them, you would know that. But all your experience appears to be in management and as everyone on the floor will tell you, managers never ask the staff what works and what doesn't.  ::)

We had two hydraulic loading docks, which would hold either 6 cages or three full size pallets (you could fit four on but would then have to climb over the railing to operate it and access the truck).

Everything loaded onto the truck was then off loaded via the tail lift which had capacity to carry three cages or two full sized pallets, (without space for the pump truck).

On a good day, each truck had a pump truck and the warehouse had three and each loading bay had three. On a bad day, you were lucky if there was one either end... Rest assured, unloading using a single pump truck takes alot longer... Especially when you are folding and unfolding the safety flaps every time.

And modern staffing practices dictate that you work out how many staff are required, then automatically reduce this by 10%. Then employ 20% fewer staff than that and expect everything to be done to a stupidly high corporate standard. Which was set by a manager who had never done the job in question. And because everywhere is run on minimal staffing levels, the driver has to load and unload the truck, whilst justifying why it takes so long.

Well, you asked...

Thank you DG for your reply :y :y

The reason why I got "pissy" with you was that, yet again, you pick on a small element of my post, this time about recycling pop drink packaging, and seem to make cyclical fun of it.  In this case that as a manager I could never have loaded or unloaded trucks and therefore had no knowledge of the process.

My whole piece was about the RETAIL point of view of handling glass bottles of pop on receipt from the CDC or the supplier direct, and their return in thousands from the retail customer.  It had nothing to do with how the CDC handle pallets and cages, it was my views from a retail point of view. I, however, as part of my 40 year retail training undertook all duties applicable to the safe, efficient, and viable running of a retail store.  I have manually loaded and unloaded lorries in my time, initially without the aid of cages or pallets, just hundreds of loose outers, and back breaking work that was, but par for the course in retailing. I have done everything within my retail field as in my life as a retailer you had to come up from the lowest position, to gain experience and knowledge of all elements of our trade, to ensure as a manager you knew what it was all like in reality, not from the point of view of someone behind a desk!

Once again though you cynically, trying to hide it with the laughs of humour, take one tiny element of my professional views on the handing in the retail sector of pop bottles and crates and make fun of it in an effort to try, yet again, to belittle me as though I could not possibly know what I was talking about (because I am a woman??) and you think I know nothing about anything as only DG knows what he is talking about.

This thread was about bottle deposits at the retail end, with me giving my views on that based on experience and knowledge which is not out of date as you suggested. Nothing less, nothing more. I did not want a discussion about CDC loading and unloading of stock, cages or pallets as that is NOT my field, being just part of the retail distribution process.

That is why I got "pissy". ;)
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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #40 on: 09 May 2019, 11:44:54 »

I still think Lizzie and Al will soon become ' an item '...... :-* :-* :-*
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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #41 on: 09 May 2019, 11:51:31 »

I still think Lizzie and Al will soon become ' an item '...... :-* :-* :-*


Time for a new hat. ;D
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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #42 on: 09 May 2019, 11:59:26 »

I still think Lizzie and Al will soon become ' an item '...... :-* :-* :-*


Time for a new hat. ;D
NFL ;D
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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #43 on: 09 May 2019, 12:09:18 »

How things used to be done, and how they are now done are very, very different.

Even 15 years ago, you could barely get someone to answer the Goods In bell, let alone help load/unload :-X
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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #44 on: 09 May 2019, 12:52:04 »

How things used to be done, and how they are now done are very, very different.

Even 15 years ago, you could barely get someone to answer the Goods In bell, let alone help load/unload :-X
How big is this bell? And how many and what type of goods do you put in it?
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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #45 on: 09 May 2019, 13:10:53 »

How things used to be done, and how they are now done are very, very different.

Even 15 years ago, you could barely get someone to answer the Goods In bell, let alone help load/unload :-X


Little trick l learned, just block the entrance to the car park, be surprised how quick they appear.
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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #46 on: 09 May 2019, 13:32:45 »

I always found Cream Soda a bit sweet and sickly.  :-\

So Corona did Lemonade, Limeade, Cherryade, Orangeade and Cream Soda.  :)

Any others?  ???  :-\  Appleade?  :-\


Do you have any teeth?

I have all my own teeth with only one filling.  :y

I also still have all my hair mostly in its original colour and don't need glasses.  The rest of me however is Donald ducked!  ;D
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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #47 on: 09 May 2019, 13:35:22 »

How things used to be done, and how they are now done are very, very different.

Even 15 years ago, you could barely get someone to answer the Goods In bell, let alone help load/unload :-X
How big is this bell? And how many and what type of goods do you put in it?
Ask LZ, she clearly knows everything...
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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #48 on: 09 May 2019, 14:46:53 »

How things used to be done, and how they are now done are very, very different.

Even 15 years ago, you could barely get someone to answer the Goods In bell, let alone help load/unload :-X
How big is this bell? And how many and what type of goods do you put in it?
Ask LZ, she clearly knows everything...

Nice of you DG to recognise that ;D ;D ;D ;)

But.........if only. As I have often said I only know what I know, which in the context of this world is fxck all! ::) ::)

15 years ago was after many staffing reductions in retailing, which are still going on.  Back in the day there would be one person or three responsible for seeing in the goods, but then 'specialist' staff gave way to 'general' staff, meaning they were required on the shop floor to assist customers and generate sales / profits.  In addition to staffing cuts, there was a requirement for staff to be fully trained in H&S, and if they were 'in the yard' receiving goods they had to be fully equipped to do so.  That was more expense, so the days of retail staff physically unloading a large lorry with all the risks of back and other injuries (I have often witnessed whole pallets of goods toppling off the back of the tail gate) were over.  That was for the fully trained, professional transport blokes (very unusual to see a woman doing it in those days) to deal with.

So, yes, the answering of the delivery bell is a longer process than perhaps before, but the queues of artics waiting to unload at at a set time, at the rear gates, has hardly changed from what I see now.  Security is still a big issue, so time is taken on that aspect of deliveries and returns. ;)
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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #49 on: 09 May 2019, 15:37:55 »

Staffing reductions are not a retail phenomenon.

Although what managers generally fail to understand* is that cutting staff does not guarantee to make the work place more efficient. Cutting to close to the bone in the name of profit usually results in the loss of customer satisfaction and ultimately customers/contracts.

*Perhaps they do and choose to actively ignore it, as by the time it matters (to them), they have either moved on or are waiting for the big fat redundancy cheque/transferring with the contract.
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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #50 on: 09 May 2019, 18:51:01 »

Staffing reductions are not a retail phenomenon.

Although what managers generally fail to understand* is that cutting staff does not guarantee to make the work place more efficient. Cutting to close to the bone in the name of profit usually results in the loss of customer satisfaction and ultimately customers/contracts.


*Perhaps they do and choose to actively ignore it, as by the time it matters (to them), they have either moved on or are waiting for the big fat redundancy cheque/transferring with the contract.

Now most of that I utterly agree with!! :o :o :D :y

Yes, cutting staff, certainly from the retail sales floor which is of course my area of expertise, does damage the ability of the business to provide the top level of Customer Care I for one was passionate about.  It was not good for the business at the sharp end, and as a manager I often argued that at Board level.

However, in retail, when you have stores that are not profitable due to the burden of costs, the main element one being the wage expenditure, you have a choice. Cut the staff bill, a'nd bring the store back into profit, or sell up with all staff involved losing their jobs!

In the 1980,s I became responsible for a budget of 80 million, and 3,000 staff.  From then on I often in my career had to make hard choices, cutting other costs when possible, but all too often having to reduce the wage bill to keep within profit targets.  That is because there were, and still are, constant pressures from competitors who were reducing their prices which we needed to match to stay competitive.  At the same time there are increased rent and rate bills squeezing the viability of the business, let alone increases (quite rightly) in legal minimum hourly wage levels.

As a senior manager I had to keep the P&L balanced, producing the level of profit for our multi-billion dollar International mother company that they expected on their investment.  That is what is being faced daily by my opposite numbers in the major retail companies now, with more and more the only choice is to close expensive retail units. I am sure I do not need to name all those currently in trouble and those already expired.  Managers eventually lose their jobs as well, and I had to make redundant all too many in my time.  So, yes, we as managers fully understand what we are doing, and for many of us it is heartbreaking to see your retail empire fading. But, the Customer is dictating where they shop, when they shop, and crucially where they can get the cheapest prices.  This is increasingly not in expensive to run superstores but online or in discount stores where they are already on limited staffing levels, and do not display items in a true traditional way, but in bulk straight out of the cases on shop floors.

That is where we are at, but big change is still happening. Tesco, Sainsbury, M&S, John Lewis, W.H.Smith, and the others will, as I have stated before, be in definite danger of following all the others I have seen go in my lifetime. :'( :'( :'(

"Managers" of any business can work miracles with what they have got, but to stop the current trend of retail disintegration will take far more. :'( :'(
« Last Edit: 09 May 2019, 19:00:44 by Lizzie Zoom »
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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #51 on: 09 May 2019, 19:18:25 »

The discourse of he last few pages is a microcosm of the problem.

We create rubbish which could be recycled with imagination.

What is lacking is the magination and determination.  Just difficulty stating.

It is easier to throw away tins and bottles etc than recycle them.
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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #52 on: 09 May 2019, 19:31:13 »

The discourse of he last few pages is a microcosm of the problem.

We create rubbish which could be recycled with imagination.

What is lacking is the magination and determination.  Just difficulty stating.

It is easier to throw away tins and bottles etc than recycle them.

That Varche, in your one sentence, is the real issue. ;)
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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #53 on: 09 May 2019, 21:10:16 »

The reality here is that if empty plastic pop bottles are to be returned, supermarkets will have a caged insert pallet sized crusher in the warehouse to crush them so, they take up a fraction of the space of the full ones. This will then be loaded as a caged pallet to their supply warehouse where they will be loaded into a container, shipped to the nearest container port sent to Asia to be environmentally disposed of & thrown into the Pacific Ocean. All additional costs plus a markup will be passed onto the consumer, thus bit by bit they are reducing our freedom & standard of living. >:( >:( >:(

This will suit the big retailers as it increases the cost of entry into the market, reduces competition through cheaper independents & small chains disappearing not only in grocery markets, but also in fast food & restaurants, thus increasing the multiples profits. People like Lizzie with her infinite budget will love it those on small ones, especially JAMs who already find life challenging, will increasingly have to go without, food, drink, energy & accommodation*, choosing which they can afford & which they will have to live without. What is there not to like about it if you are green & rich, like Lizzie & Emma Thompson? :( :( :(

*Items 2 & 3 on my list are the easiest, by only drinking tap water & walking, cycling & freezing in the winter to reduce energy consumption.

The green agenda is all about smashing capitalism & imposing total political control, so the world consists of all nations being like Venezuela & DPRK. Unfortunately, they have plenty of useful fools that subscribe to this. :( :( :( The good news is that there is a much bigger section of society who like the benefits of capitalism, freedom & democracy and we are pushing back, hence the rapid rise of the only major right of centre political party in the UK, The Brexit Party. :y :y :y
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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #54 on: 09 May 2019, 21:12:23 »

How things used to be done, and how they are now done are very, very different.

Even 15 years ago, you could barely get someone to answer the Goods In bell, let alone help load/unload :-X
How big is this bell? And how many and what type of goods do you put in it?
Ask LZ, she clearly knows everything...

Nice of you DG to recognise that ;D ;D ;D ;)

But.........if only. As I have often said I only know what I know, which in the context of this world is fxck all! ::) ::)

15 years ago was after many staffing reductions in retailing, which are still going on.  Back in the day there would be one person or three responsible for seeing in the goods, but then 'specialist' staff gave way to 'general' staff, meaning they were required on the shop floor to assist customers and generate sales / profits.  In addition to staffing cuts, there was a requirement for staff to be fully trained in H&S, and if they were 'in the yard' receiving goods they had to be fully equipped to do so.  That was more expense, so the days of retail staff physically unloading a large lorry with all the risks of back and other injuries (I have often witnessed whole pallets of goods toppling off the back of the tail gate) were over.  That was for the fully trained, professional transport blokes (very unusual to see a woman doing it in those days) to deal with.

So, yes, the answering of the delivery bell is a longer process than perhaps before, but the queues of artics waiting to unload at at a set time, at the rear gates, has hardly changed from what I see now.  Security is still a big issue, so time is taken on that aspect of deliveries and returns. ;)
.

If I have to sit and wait to get unloaded, who cares, paid by the hour, ring it in after 1hr let the office deal with it, late for 2nd/3rd/4th who cares, stock not delivered, well ring delivery point 1 it's down to them. 

What doesn't get done today gets done tomorrow. :)
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Re: Scotland introducing 20p refund scheme
« Reply #55 on: 10 May 2019, 12:19:18 »

The reality here is that if empty plastic pop bottles are to be returned, supermarkets will have a caged insert pallet sized crusher in the warehouse to crush them so, they take up a fraction of the space of the full ones. This will then be loaded as a caged pallet to their supply warehouse where they will be loaded into a container, shipped to the nearest container port sent to Asia to be environmentally disposed of & thrown into the Pacific Ocean. All additional costs plus a markup will be passed onto the consumer, thus bit by bit they are reducing our freedom & standard of living. >:( >:( >:(

This will suit the big retailers as it increases the cost of entry into the market, reduces competition through cheaper independents & small chains disappearing not only in grocery markets, but also in fast food & restaurants, thus increasing the multiples profits. People like Lizzie with her infinite budget will love it those on small ones, especially JAMs who already find life challenging, will increasingly have to go without, food, drink, energy & accommodation*, choosing which they can afford & which they will have to live without. What is there not to like about it if you are green & rich, like Lizzie & Emma Thompson? :( :( :(

*Items 2 & 3 on my list are the easiest, by only drinking tap water & walking, cycling & freezing in the winter to reduce energy consumption.

The green agenda is all about smashing capitalism & imposing total political control, so the world consists of all nations being like Venezuela & DPRK. Unfortunately, they have plenty of useful fools that subscribe to this. :( :( :( The good news is that there is a much bigger section of society who like the benefits of capitalism, freedom & democracy and we are pushing back, hence the rapid rise of the only major right of centre political party in the UK, The Brexit Party. :y :y :y

In my posts I was talking about GLASS bottle returns.  ::) ::) ::)

Again though you come out with some crap, and somehow want to blame me, and Emma, for it all!  ::) ::) ::)

 Smaller retailer units have ALREADY disappeared  in droves as the CONSUMER - not me or Emma - has decided to use the larger supermarket / superstores. The company I still have an interest in, as it pays my pension as I am NOT rich (!!!), can be badly affected by all changes within retail, which could include the recycling of GLASS bottles and crates with extra handling costs which is ACTUALLY what I have been talking about in my posts! Yes, there WILL be implications when it comes to budgets, that once again you seem to think I believe are " infinite". If you really knew business then you would know, as I do that is never the case; if only it had been as I would not have had to cut hundreds of thousands of pounds from our staffing expenditure budget on a fairly regular basis over two decades and lost some great colleagues :'( :'( :'(!! 

 Now, actually, it is the SMALLER supermarkets that are bucking the trend in retailing with Aldi, Lidl and even the great Co-Op doing well.  What have I, or Emma Thompson, got anything to do with people going without " food, drink, energy & accommodation"??  What has that got to do with just me; IF it is the case (which actually is just crap, but hey ho!) , it is due to the MARKET.  It is down to the great Western general public who want the cheapest, the most, the best, at the cheapest quality at their complete convenience. It is down to you, me and ALL the general public to change their ways, and the methods/preferences of commercial concerns. The latter will eventually have to take on board the new regulations and standards, with any increased costs, of what is decided by government, which IS going to mean recycling even more of an issue than it is now.

As I made clear though, in another of my posts, I am all in favour of any glass (and other materials) recycling initiative that can save our planet, even if that costs business profit initially.  But, one thing you were right about, even with GLASS recycling, the costs WILL be passed on to the consumer as is usual in our capitalist system. ;)
« Last Edit: 10 May 2019, 12:26:12 by Lizzie Zoom »
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