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Author Topic: Strange Question  (Read 388 times)

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Lazydocker

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Strange Question
« on: 29 May 2019, 18:30:21 »

Quick one please guys. Looking to fit Tow bars to our vans for the purpose of using a rigid bar for a safety tow (few hundred yards at most) so no need for trailer boards etc

Heard a rumour that itís now illegal to fit a tow bar without electrics  :-\. Anyone know if thereís any truth to it please?
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TheBoy

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Re: Strange Question
« Reply #1 on: 29 May 2019, 18:42:03 »

I thought, no matter on distance, either a board had to be fitted, or an occupant in towed vehicle had to do the signalling
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Re: Strange Question
« Reply #2 on: 29 May 2019, 18:46:33 »

I would have thought it would be worth the extra expense of fitting the electrics to maintain the re-sale-ability and resale value?  ???

Who is going to buy a van with a tow bar that they can't use on the road?  ::)
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dave the builder

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Re: Strange Question
« Reply #3 on: 29 May 2019, 18:57:34 »

7 pin trailer electrics are not testable for MOT because there is no set in stone standard of pin configuration
(though many MOT testers fail to read the manual and test anyway  ::) )
13 pin towing electrics are testable (and can be a fail if not working)
security of the towbar ,mounting area etc is also testable

a canbus relay can be had for £20,simple to wire, so £10 for cable and a 7 pin socket ,£30 total spend   :y
when towing, it is good to show other road users what your doing, like braking,turning, hazzards if you drive like a snail  ;D :D
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Re: Strange Question
« Reply #4 on: 29 May 2019, 20:20:58 »

Most police cars don't have electric's, just the towbar.
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Lazydocker

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Re: Strange Question
« Reply #5 on: 29 May 2019, 20:36:25 »

I thought, no matter on distance, either a board had to be fitted, or an occupant in towed vehicle had to do the signalling

Towing with rigid bar so towed vehicle will be manned  :y

7 pin trailer electrics are not testable for MOT because there is no set in stone standard of pin configuration
(though many MOT testers fail to read the manual and test anyway  ::) )
13 pin towing electrics are testable (and can be a fail if not working)
security of the towbar ,mounting area etc is also testable

a canbus relay can be had for £20,simple to wire, so £10 for cable and a 7 pin socket ,£30 total spend   :y
when towing, it is good to show other road users what your doing, like braking,turning, hazzards if you drive like a snail  ;D :D

Even with a canbus relay, wiring can be a pain - particularly in the case of our vans where the entire rear load area is sealed ::)

I would have thought it would be worth the extra expense of fitting the electrics to maintain the re-sale-ability and resale value?  ???

Who is going to buy a van with a tow bar that they can't use on the road?  ::)

By the time our vans have done upwards of 350k miles, plus the various holes from lights, vents, etc, the resale value is pretty much the square root of FA anyway :D

Any one able to give a legal view point please?

(Which was what I asked, as the various other arguments have been discussed before asking here)
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dave the builder

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Re: Strange Question
« Reply #6 on: 29 May 2019, 20:37:47 »

Most police cars don't have electric's, just the towbar.

but chances are, they won't tow you
My brother snapped a cambelt on the A38 ,outside Lichfield
the volvo police car sat behind him in a live lane "we are not allowed to tow anything"
fortunately I was just down the road,there in 10 mins, towed it 20 yards to a pull in
diagnosed the snapped belt and towed him back later on when traffic was less busy

can't the OP just have a rear  tow eye screwed in all the time  :-\
like race/track cars have
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henryd

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Re: Strange Question
« Reply #7 on: 29 May 2019, 20:39:47 »

from pistonheads

Towbar section here:
http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_660.htm
Towbar electrics here:
http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_190.htm
Only the 13 pin euro socket is tested for function (even though an adapter is supplied with the test kit so it could be used to do the 7 pin, so what's the betting that will come some time in the future)
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dave the builder

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Re: Strange Question
« Reply #8 on: 29 May 2019, 20:54:33 »

from pistonheads

Towbar section here:
http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_660.htm
Towbar electrics here:
http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_190.htm
Only the 13 pin euro socket is tested for function (even though an adapter is supplied with the test kit so it could be used to do the 7 pin, so what's the betting that will come some time in the future)

7 pin trailer electrics are not testable for MOT because there is no set in stone standard of pin configuration
(though many MOT testers fail to read the manual and test anyway  ::) )

so, how could VOSA inforce 7 pin testing
make you tow your trailer to the test to prove the lights work :-\  ;D

anyone dragging round trailers, tin sheds , cars on tow etc , need to check all the lights work when they connect up to the towing vehicle
too many people already think it's OK to get the lights and everything else tested just once a year (MOT ) and ignore checking anything until next MOT  :(
noisy suspension or brakes or engine = turn the radio up  ;D :D
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henryd

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Re: Strange Question
« Reply #9 on: 29 May 2019, 21:03:50 »

from pistonheads

Towbar section here:
http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_660.htm
Towbar electrics here:
http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_190.htm
Only the 13 pin euro socket is tested for function (even though an adapter is supplied with the test kit so it could be used to do the 7 pin, so what's the betting that will come some time in the future)

7 pin trailer electrics are not testable for MOT because there is no set in stone standard of pin configuration
(though many MOT testers fail to read the manual and test anyway  ::) )

so, how could VOSA inforce 7 pin testing
make you tow your trailer to the test to prove the lights work :-\  ;D

anyone dragging round trailers, tin sheds , cars on tow etc , need to check all the lights work when they connect up to the towing vehicle
too many people already think it's OK to get the lights and everything else tested just once a year (MOT ) and ignore checking anything until next MOT  :(
noisy suspension or brakes or engine = turn the radio up  ;D :D

VOSA are gone Dave,DVSA now :y
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dave the builder

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Re: Strange Question
« Reply #10 on: 29 May 2019, 21:08:36 »



VOSA are gone Dave, :y
went bust because no one liked what they where selling  ;D :D

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Kevin Wood

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Re: Strange Question
« Reply #11 on: 29 May 2019, 23:13:24 »

So, just fit a 7 pin socket with a wire disappearing up behind the bumper and "forget" to connect it to anything. :y
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tidla

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Re: Strange Question
« Reply #12 on: 30 May 2019, 00:13:16 »

Whats the difference between a towing eye and a tow ball?

I use a towing eye for my rigid bar for towing.

Mot wise, i think if an electrical tow socket was fitted it was to be tested using a simple plug in tester.

Testers will verify.
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Andy B

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Re: Strange Question
« Reply #13 on: 30 May 2019, 00:39:01 »

Whats the difference between a towing eye and a tow ball?

I use a towing eye for my rigid bar for towing.
A tow eye doesn't need a socket but that's the question, does a tow bar require a socket?

Mot wise, i think if an electrical tow socket was fitted it was to be tested using a simple plug in tester.

Testers will verify.

As above ... 7 pin 12N socket is not tested but a 13 pin is  :y
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Re: Strange Question
« Reply #14 on: 30 May 2019, 10:36:41 »

What if you presented it to MOT with a towing flange but no ball attached? :-\
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dave the builder

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Re: Strange Question
« Reply #15 on: 30 May 2019, 11:10:27 »

What if you presented it to MOT with a towing flange but no ball attached? :-\
you can only test what is presented (without removing covers or using tools)
but the flange must be secure and the supporting structure sound
any wiring must be secure and electrically safe
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Lazydocker

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Re: Strange Question
« Reply #16 on: 01 June 2019, 12:07:39 »

What if you presented it to MOT with a towing flange but no ball attached? :-\
you can only test what is presented (without removing covers or using tools)
but the flange must be secure and the supporting structure sound
any wiring must be secure and electrically safe

Except the handbook clearly states that any tow hatch cover should be removed to examine the hitch for wear
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Lazydocker

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Re: Strange Question
« Reply #17 on: 01 June 2019, 12:08:33 »

So, the simple answer is that none of us can find or know a definitive answer... No problem. 

Thanks for the help guys :y
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