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Author Topic: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.  (Read 563 times)

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MikeyBikey

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Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
« on: 09 June 2019, 17:35:06 »

Hi, newbie here. 
I have a 1972 scimitar GTE that I sprint & hillclimb and its my everyday roadcar.  I keep destroying the Ford Essex engines and Type 5 / 9 gearboxes despite being upgraded, so for more power / reliability I'm fitting a Y32SE from a police car. It has an R25-R28 gearbox.

I'm in a dilemma re the clutch. The existing dual mass flywheel has a 240mm plate that looks pretty tired. I'm loath to replace all the DMF, as I'm not sure it will cope with track use, so I'm thinking of either

1) converting to SMF and keeping the R25-R28 box.
2) converting to a RX8 gearbox. Parts are available.

So for either option I need to source an early SMF flywheel but then its only a 228mm clutch whereas the omega is 240.  But I've also heard the R25-28 box is not that strong and I should go for R30 ??

So just a tad confused...

Any ideas
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Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
« Reply #1 on: 09 June 2019, 18:05:01 »

Welcome.

A few of the Irish buy Omegas for drifting, though not sure that puts quite the same strain on the clutch itself.  I've not heard of any reports of the clutch being particularly fragile TBH, and in a lighter car should have a slightly easier time?
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Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
« Reply #2 on: 09 June 2019, 18:30:48 »

Hi, newbie here. 
I have a 1972 scimitar GTE that I sprint & hillclimb and its my everyday roadcar.  I keep destroying the Ford Essex engines and Type 5 / 9 gearboxes despite being upgraded, so for more power / reliability I'm fitting a Y32SE from a police car. It has an R25-R28 gearbox.

I'm in a dilemma re the clutch. The existing dual mass flywheel has a 240mm plate that looks pretty tired. I'm loath to replace all the DMF, as I'm not sure it will cope with track use, so I'm thinking of either

1) converting to SMF and keeping the R25-R28 box.
2) converting to a RX8 gearbox. Parts are available.

So for either option I need to source an early SMF flywheel but then its only a 228mm clutch whereas the omega is 240.  But I've also heard the R25-28 box is not that strong and I should go for R30 ??

So just a tad confused...

Any ideas

Pretty sure somebody on here put a V6 Omega in a Scimitar.

Much quicker car than with the V6 Essex lump. :)

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MikeyBikey

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Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
« Reply #3 on: 09 June 2019, 19:29:13 »

Yes, there's been two that I know of, but they remained road cars. I'm the only one that wants to put the reult on a track, so having a few conundrums re clutch and gearbox. Is the r25-R28 any good. Any has anyone done the SMF conversion on a petrol car ?
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Nick W

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Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
« Reply #4 on: 09 June 2019, 20:05:55 »

I've just got home from making a start on the first exhaust manifold for a mate's MGB/30XE swap. We're using a stock R28, clutch and flywheel, but that is for a roadcar. However a Scimitar(and MGB) is going to be at least 2/3 the weight of an Omega, so you're going to be putting a lot less strain on a gearbox which isn't known for being weak in its original home. I would be more concerned about the ratios, as getting that wrong makes for a car that drives horribly. You should compare the Scimitar rolling radius and diff ratios to those of the Omega before making a decision.


I'm still trying to convince the owner that he doesn't need to lose the DMF, and that the multi-rams are necessary.



One of the snags with the RX8 box is it's intended for a high revving low-torque engine, so the six closely spaced ratios that still give only a barely overdriven top gear aren't necessarily a good match for a torquey V6 that has a 2500rpm lower redline.
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MikeyBikey

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Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
« Reply #5 on: 09 June 2019, 21:07:05 »

thanks. I've got the five speed left over from a previous project, its got the same gearing as the Type 9. But I take your comments about what best fits.

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Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
« Reply #6 on: 09 June 2019, 21:07:57 »

There is a conversion kit to fit a vectra flywheel to the Omega, serek did have some parts.
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Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
« Reply #7 on: 09 June 2019, 21:19:15 »

My post should  read a Scimitar(and MGB) is going to be at MOST 2/3 the weight of an Omega.


I blame the Punk IPA
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Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
« Reply #8 on: 10 June 2019, 18:32:04 »

My post should  read a Scimitar(and MGB) is going to be at MOST 2/3 the weight of an Omega.


I blame the Punk IPA

I reckon about 1000 KG for the MGB and 1700 KG for the Omega. So a considerable saving.

The B series 1800 cc engine was pretty wheezy. Good low speed torque but that was about all.
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MikeyBikey

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Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
« Reply #9 on: 10 June 2019, 21:00:10 »

So I'm discarding the RX8 box conversion and sticking with the R25-R28 box. (I have two anyway, so if one does go pop !!) I'm just sorting out the best SMF conversion. There seems to be three options for a flywheel. Early flat face c20xe. Later pot face c20xe. Vectra conversion. I've contacted techni clutch for advice. Found an old but informative post on mantaclub... The op was asking about C20LET.

""""
For road use, I would suggest a Vauxhall Omega gearbox. The ones from 2.0 and 2.2 omegas will take 350hp with no problems, and over 400 as long as you are not drag racing (this is from experience, not guessed). These are the boxes marked R25-R28 on the casting near the bellhousing end. The box from the later 2.2 dti (diesel, vauxhall 4 cyl not bmw 6 cyl ones) supposedly has the stronger R30 gearkit inside (still marked R25-R28 on the outside), as do the 3.2v6 ones, but we tried a 2.2 diesel box and it exploded (drag racing with 550hp) just the same as the previous 2.0 R25 one did!

Whatever though, these are MUCH stronger than the manta 1800 or ford boxes, and you can pick them up for 50 to 100. As lon as you don't get the 2.5 diesel variant (which used the bmw engine) then all the manual boxes bolt to the LET engine. You'll need a spacer for the clutch slave cylinder setup, but we supply those off the shelf (45 delivered) and you'll need some sort of speedo drive as these cars drove the speedo off the abs system. We fit a magnetic pickup on the gearbox mount picking up off the gearbox output flange and use it to operate an electronic speedo, either hidden behind the stock dash so it looks standard or not, depending on preference.

Clutch wise, an uprated "fast road" LET unit will be fine to around 300hp, then a paddle version still with stock type uprated cover will go up to 425hp or so. We've used techniclutch and got on fine with them. You can use the stock LET pot type flywheel but they are heavy, We tend to use the flat type earlier xe flywheel, and if you do you will need the friction plate to be a normal LET type and the cover to be a non turbo, early, flat type one. if you call techniclutch and explain they know what you need, we've had a fair few from them. The standard omega release bearing is fine with all the above.

"""""
« Last Edit: 10 June 2019, 21:07:57 by MikeyBikey »
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456lbft

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Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
« Reply #10 on: 11 June 2019, 12:13:15 »

http://ttvracing.com/  Make nice racing flywheels, if you get stuck. They make mine for SMF conversions on Lotus Carltons. If you've ever experience a flywheel exploding you'll invest wisely in a decent one.  Also for sprinting/hillclimbing speak to Craig at https://www.sf-technic.com/about/ who now imports PTT clutches from USA and supplies to many top UK competitors.
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MikeyBikey

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Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
« Reply #11 on: 11 June 2019, 21:03:29 »

http://ttvracing.com/  Make nice racing flywheels, if you get stuck. They make mine for SMF conversions on Lotus Carltons. If you've ever experience a flywheel exploding you'll invest wisely in a decent one.  Also for sprinting/hillclimbing speak to Craig at https://www.sf-technic.com/about/ who now imports PTT clutches from USA and supplies to many top UK competitors.

thank you. I was aware ttv did a version and I'll also approach PTT
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Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
« Reply #12 on: 11 June 2019, 21:53:34 »

All R25-28s are the same internally apart from a possible fifth gear ratio difference, i've sold many to the Irish lads without issue, The R30 box is like a unicorn and the only difference is the internals are shot peened, never seen one and likely never will.   
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Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
« Reply #13 on: 12 June 2019, 11:38:21 »

http://ttvracing.com/  Make nice racing flywheels, if you get stuck. They make mine for SMF conversions on Lotus Carltons. If you've ever experience a flywheel exploding you'll invest wisely in a decent one.  Also for sprinting/hillclimbing speak to Craig at https://www.sf-technic.com/about/ who now imports PTT clutches from USA and supplies to many top UK competitors.

thank you. I was aware ttv did a version and I'll also approach PTT
If you need any help or advice on exhaust manifolds, that's my day job :) www.btbexhausts.co.uk
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Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
« Reply #14 on: 12 June 2019, 21:44:14 »

pics on here somewhere (Terry Paget) I think? of  a carlton with a v8 around 300bhp,running a r28 box no problems so far and when Mot was passed on monday we celebrated by leaving 40yard twin black streaks on a private road that leads to the mot station,
the box does not complain at treatment like that, it will be doing track days as well :y
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