Omega Owners Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Please play nicely.  No one wants to listen/read a keyboard warriors rants....

Pages: 1 2 3 [All]   Go Down

Author Topic: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.  (Read 1113 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

MikeyBikey

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Cornwall
  • Posts: 11
    • Reliant Scimitar GTE
    • View Profile
Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
« on: 09 June 2019, 17:35:06 »

Hi, newbie here. 
I have a 1972 scimitar GTE that I sprint & hillclimb and its my everyday roadcar.  I keep destroying the Ford Essex engines and Type 5 / 9 gearboxes despite being upgraded, so for more power / reliability I'm fitting a Y32SE from a police car. It has an R25-R28 gearbox.

I'm in a dilemma re the clutch. The existing dual mass flywheel has a 240mm plate that looks pretty tired. I'm loath to replace all the DMF, as I'm not sure it will cope with track use, so I'm thinking of either

1) converting to SMF and keeping the R25-R28 box.
2) converting to a RX8 gearbox. Parts are available.

So for either option I need to source an early SMF flywheel but then its only a 228mm clutch whereas the omega is 240.  But I've also heard the R25-28 box is not that strong and I should go for R30 ??

So just a tad confused...

Any ideas
Logged

TheBoy

  • Administrator
  • *********
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Brackley, Northants
  • Posts: 99187
  • Millennium Man
    • The missus mad
    • View Profile
Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
« Reply #1 on: 09 June 2019, 18:05:01 »

Welcome.

A few of the Irish buy Omegas for drifting, though not sure that puts quite the same strain on the clutch itself.  I've not heard of any reports of the clutch being particularly fragile TBH, and in a lighter car should have a slightly easier time?
Logged
I don't tolerate bickering, and I'm always grumpy.
And Lizzie Zoom says I'm a heartless bastid...and she's absolutely correct!

Field Marshal Dr. Opti

  • Over Active Thyroid
  • *********
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • South Lincolnshire
  • Posts: 22920
  • Shami and TB forever.
    • View Profile
Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
« Reply #2 on: 09 June 2019, 18:30:48 »

Hi, newbie here. 
I have a 1972 scimitar GTE that I sprint & hillclimb and its my everyday roadcar.  I keep destroying the Ford Essex engines and Type 5 / 9 gearboxes despite being upgraded, so for more power / reliability I'm fitting a Y32SE from a police car. It has an R25-R28 gearbox.

I'm in a dilemma re the clutch. The existing dual mass flywheel has a 240mm plate that looks pretty tired. I'm loath to replace all the DMF, as I'm not sure it will cope with track use, so I'm thinking of either

1) converting to SMF and keeping the R25-R28 box.
2) converting to a RX8 gearbox. Parts are available.

So for either option I need to source an early SMF flywheel but then its only a 228mm clutch whereas the omega is 240.  But I've also heard the R25-28 box is not that strong and I should go for R30 ??

So just a tad confused...

Any ideas

Pretty sure somebody on here put a V6 Omega in a Scimitar.

Much quicker car than with the V6 Essex lump. :)

Logged

MikeyBikey

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Cornwall
  • Posts: 11
    • Reliant Scimitar GTE
    • View Profile
Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
« Reply #3 on: 09 June 2019, 19:29:13 »

Yes, there's been two that I know of, but they remained road cars. I'm the only one that wants to put the reult on a track, so having a few conundrums re clutch and gearbox. Is the r25-R28 any good. Any has anyone done the SMF conversion on a petrol car ?
Logged

Nick W

  • Omega Lord
  • *******
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Chatham, Kent
  • Posts: 7187
  • Rover Metro 1.8VVC
    • 3.0l Elite estate
    • View Profile
Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
« Reply #4 on: 09 June 2019, 20:05:55 »

I've just got home from making a start on the first exhaust manifold for a mate's MGB/30XE swap. We're using a stock R28, clutch and flywheel, but that is for a roadcar. However a Scimitar(and MGB) is going to be at least 2/3 the weight of an Omega, so you're going to be putting a lot less strain on a gearbox which isn't known for being weak in its original home. I would be more concerned about the ratios, as getting that wrong makes for a car that drives horribly. You should compare the Scimitar rolling radius and diff ratios to those of the Omega before making a decision.


I'm still trying to convince the owner that he doesn't need to lose the DMF, and that the multi-rams are necessary.



One of the snags with the RX8 box is it's intended for a high revving low-torque engine, so the six closely spaced ratios that still give only a barely overdriven top gear aren't necessarily a good match for a torquey V6 that has a 2500rpm lower redline.
Logged

MikeyBikey

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Cornwall
  • Posts: 11
    • Reliant Scimitar GTE
    • View Profile
Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
« Reply #5 on: 09 June 2019, 21:07:05 »

thanks. I've got the five speed left over from a previous project, its got the same gearing as the Type 9. But I take your comments about what best fits.

Logged

biggriffin

  • Omega Lord
  • *******
  • Offline Offline
  • huntingdon, Hoof'land
  • Posts: 7996
    • Vectra in a posh frock.
    • View Profile
Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
« Reply #6 on: 09 June 2019, 21:07:57 »

There is a conversion kit to fit a vectra flywheel to the Omega, serek did have some parts.
Logged
Hoof'land storeman..

Rwd-less..

Nick W

  • Omega Lord
  • *******
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Chatham, Kent
  • Posts: 7187
  • Rover Metro 1.8VVC
    • 3.0l Elite estate
    • View Profile
Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
« Reply #7 on: 09 June 2019, 21:19:15 »

My post should  read a Scimitar(and MGB) is going to be at MOST 2/3 the weight of an Omega.


I blame the Punk IPA
Logged

Field Marshal Dr. Opti

  • Over Active Thyroid
  • *********
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • South Lincolnshire
  • Posts: 22920
  • Shami and TB forever.
    • View Profile
Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
« Reply #8 on: 10 June 2019, 18:32:04 »

My post should  read a Scimitar(and MGB) is going to be at MOST 2/3 the weight of an Omega.


I blame the Punk IPA

I reckon about 1000 KG for the MGB and 1700 KG for the Omega. So a considerable saving.

The B series 1800 cc engine was pretty wheezy. Good low speed torque but that was about all.
Logged

MikeyBikey

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Cornwall
  • Posts: 11
    • Reliant Scimitar GTE
    • View Profile
Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
« Reply #9 on: 10 June 2019, 21:00:10 »

So I'm discarding the RX8 box conversion and sticking with the R25-R28 box. (I have two anyway, so if one does go pop !!) I'm just sorting out the best SMF conversion. There seems to be three options for a flywheel. Early flat face c20xe. Later pot face c20xe. Vectra conversion. I've contacted techni clutch for advice. Found an old but informative post on mantaclub... The op was asking about C20LET.

""""
For road use, I would suggest a Vauxhall Omega gearbox. The ones from 2.0 and 2.2 omegas will take 350hp with no problems, and over 400 as long as you are not drag racing (this is from experience, not guessed). These are the boxes marked R25-R28 on the casting near the bellhousing end. The box from the later 2.2 dti (diesel, vauxhall 4 cyl not bmw 6 cyl ones) supposedly has the stronger R30 gearkit inside (still marked R25-R28 on the outside), as do the 3.2v6 ones, but we tried a 2.2 diesel box and it exploded (drag racing with 550hp) just the same as the previous 2.0 R25 one did!

Whatever though, these are MUCH stronger than the manta 1800 or ford boxes, and you can pick them up for £50 to £100. As lon as you don't get the 2.5 diesel variant (which used the bmw engine) then all the manual boxes bolt to the LET engine. You'll need a spacer for the clutch slave cylinder setup, but we supply those off the shelf (£45 delivered) and you'll need some sort of speedo drive as these cars drove the speedo off the abs system. We fit a magnetic pickup on the gearbox mount picking up off the gearbox output flange and use it to operate an electronic speedo, either hidden behind the stock dash so it looks standard or not, depending on preference.

Clutch wise, an uprated "fast road" LET unit will be fine to around 300hp, then a paddle version still with stock type uprated cover will go up to 425hp or so. We've used techniclutch and got on fine with them. You can use the stock LET pot type flywheel but they are heavy, We tend to use the flat type earlier xe flywheel, and if you do you will need the friction plate to be a normal LET type and the cover to be a non turbo, early, flat type one. if you call techniclutch and explain they know what you need, we've had a fair few from them. The standard omega release bearing is fine with all the above.

"""""
« Last Edit: 10 June 2019, 21:07:57 by MikeyBikey »
Logged

456lbft

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Northants
  • Posts: 38
  • Exhaust manufacturer from Northamptonshire
    • Omega MV6
    • View Profile
Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
« Reply #10 on: 11 June 2019, 12:13:15 »

http://ttvracing.com/  Make nice racing flywheels, if you get stuck. They make mine for SMF conversions on Lotus Carltons. If you've ever experience a flywheel exploding you'll invest wisely in a decent one.  Also for sprinting/hillclimbing speak to Craig at https://www.sf-technic.com/about/ who now imports PTT clutches from USA and supplies to many top UK competitors.
Logged
Honda Insight 1.0 for Hypermiling
VW T5 4 Motion Van for Hypermarket
Carlton 3.6 Track Car for Hyperspace

MikeyBikey

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Cornwall
  • Posts: 11
    • Reliant Scimitar GTE
    • View Profile
Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
« Reply #11 on: 11 June 2019, 21:03:29 »

http://ttvracing.com/  Make nice racing flywheels, if you get stuck. They make mine for SMF conversions on Lotus Carltons. If you've ever experience a flywheel exploding you'll invest wisely in a decent one.  Also for sprinting/hillclimbing speak to Craig at https://www.sf-technic.com/about/ who now imports PTT clutches from USA and supplies to many top UK competitors.

thank you. I was aware ttv did a version and I'll also approach PTT
Logged

omegod

  • Omega Baron
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • liverpool
  • Posts: 4051
    • 2017 Seat Ateca
    • View Profile
Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
« Reply #12 on: 11 June 2019, 21:53:34 »

All R25-28s are the same internally apart from a possible fifth gear ratio difference, i've sold many to the Irish lads without issue, The R30 box is like a unicorn and the only difference is the internals are shot peened, never seen one and likely never will.   
Logged
Happy to do Omega servicing etc around Merseyside,cruise activation, airbag lights sorted too...

456lbft

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Northants
  • Posts: 38
  • Exhaust manufacturer from Northamptonshire
    • Omega MV6
    • View Profile
Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
« Reply #13 on: 12 June 2019, 11:38:21 »

http://ttvracing.com/  Make nice racing flywheels, if you get stuck. They make mine for SMF conversions on Lotus Carltons. If you've ever experience a flywheel exploding you'll invest wisely in a decent one.  Also for sprinting/hillclimbing speak to Craig at https://www.sf-technic.com/about/ who now imports PTT clutches from USA and supplies to many top UK competitors.

thank you. I was aware ttv did a version and I'll also approach PTT
If you need any help or advice on exhaust manifolds, that's my day job :) www.btbexhausts.co.uk
Logged
Honda Insight 1.0 for Hypermiling
VW T5 4 Motion Van for Hypermarket
Carlton 3.6 Track Car for Hyperspace

Omegatoy

  • Omega Baron
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • UK
  • Posts: 3685
    • View Profile
Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
« Reply #14 on: 12 June 2019, 21:44:14 »

pics on here somewhere (Terry Paget) I think? of  a carlton with a v8 around 300bhp,running a r28 box no problems so far and when Mot was passed on monday we celebrated by leaving 40yard twin black streaks on a private road that leads to the mot station,
the box does not complain at treatment like that, it will be doing track days as well :y

MikeyBikey

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Cornwall
  • Posts: 11
    • Reliant Scimitar GTE
    • View Profile
Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
« Reply #15 on: 13 June 2019, 20:45:16 »

Great stuff and reassuring re gearbox.
I'v got a couple of pictures of engine and me racing but can't fathom out how to add them  to this blog ?

Thank for the offer re exhausts, although I've got something as an interim. I've managed to swap a spare Salisbury 4HA axle for a set of bespoke open headers. The axle recipient is a fabricator so he welded me up a set. They're ok of the right length, but mild steel  so when I need something more substantial I'll certainly come back.

I actually have two Y32SE's and two gearboxes (like buses ! wait ages then two sets arrive) Is there any benefit in fitting my in situ engine with the G cams from the spare engine so it has 4 ? or is it just urban myth regarding performance increase ?
 
And I approached TTV however those billet flywheels are made to order, I was quoted £360 plus vat and 4 week lead time. Its a bit too strong at the mo (Ive already spent too much) and I've still got clutch and prop to get so...

I have a C20xe early flywheel. I'm going to mock it up on the spare engine / gearbox and see how that goes.

A good scimitar colleague who is also an engineer (and knows what he is doing - unlike me  ;D) has dropped an x30xe in his scimitar. He believes he has the proverbial R30 so I'll insist on pictures and if I get them share them on here




Logged

scimmy_man

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • yorkshire
  • Posts: 968
    • View Profile
Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
« Reply #16 on: 14 June 2019, 22:58:28 »

evening Mikey :y
Logged

MikeyBikey

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Cornwall
  • Posts: 11
    • Reliant Scimitar GTE
    • View Profile
Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
« Reply #17 on: 17 June 2019, 22:04:13 »

evening Mikey :y

 ;D ;D

I've purchased the flywheel off ebay and precision clutches in somerset have made me up a 228mm clutch plate with a better performance material and 14 teeth.  My sprinting colleagues had recommended them. However the pressure plate is a bit harder to find. No one will commit to a discussion unless i give them a registration number which of course i don't have. Also the company I thought was ok, TechniClutch, has a few terrible reviews , enough to make you steer clear. Luckily i just missed buying from them. Anyways the courier has quoted 2 weeks to deliver the flywheel. I dont want to wait any longer so I thought  >:( >:( and reattached the dual mass flywheel and clutch with the engine, added the gearbox and lowered it it the engine bay.

Only I've dislocated a finger in the progress and now back in the house realised in the melle didn't check if i'd put the clutch plate in the right way round....

onwards and upwards

I'm trying to type this with one hand. !!
 
Logged

Doctor Gollum

  • Omega Queen
  • ********
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • In a colds and darks puddleses
  • Posts: 13336
  • If you can't eat them, join them...
    • Feetses.
    • View Profile
Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
« Reply #18 on: 18 June 2019, 01:53:29 »

Try WA51YNG or OE03EXG. Both factory 3.2 manuals :y
Logged
Onanists always think outside the box.

MikeyBikey

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Cornwall
  • Posts: 11
    • Reliant Scimitar GTE
    • View Profile
Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
« Reply #19 on: 10 July 2019, 07:28:14 »

Thank you Doc for those numbers but it was the cavalier type reg i was after, to match the early red top flywheel. Thanks anyway.

Slow progress but at least some progress non the less.
I have the early redtop flywheel and it fits a treat to the y32se crank.
I have an upgraded clutch plate from precision clutches.
I'm being careful sourcing the pressure plate, trying to make sure i have the right one. Literally taking the flywheel around to local suppliers to try to match up. All pressure plates so far have been the later pot type flywheel.



 
Logged

MikeyBikey

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Cornwall
  • Posts: 11
    • Reliant Scimitar GTE
    • View Profile
Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
« Reply #20 on: 10 July 2019, 07:34:54 »

And as per previous query. I have two y32se engines. Is it worth taking the G cams out of the spare engine and fitting to the installed engine so its running four g cams ?
Logged

biggriffin

  • Omega Lord
  • *******
  • Offline Offline
  • huntingdon, Hoof'land
  • Posts: 7996
    • Vectra in a posh frock.
    • View Profile
Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
« Reply #21 on: 10 July 2019, 14:49:55 »

And as per previous query. I have two y32se engines. Is it worth taking the G cams out of the spare engine and fitting to the installed engine so its running four g cams ?

Yup. :y, makes them run a bit lumpy,
Logged
Hoof'land storeman..

Rwd-less..

MikeyBikey

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Cornwall
  • Posts: 11
    • Reliant Scimitar GTE
    • View Profile
Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
« Reply #22 on: 11 July 2019, 22:18:46 »

Well it only bleddy fits.  :o

I've got a c20xe lightweight flywheel, custom 228mm plate for the R28 box, new LUK c20xe pressure plate. The final piece in the jigsaw was moving the concentric slave forward as the 'height' of the new assembly is 20mm less than the 'height' of the existing dual mass flywheel. So I removed the concentric from the box, then removed the bearing and with very gentle pursuasion fitted the traditional taller clutch release bearing to the concentric housing and result !!! its securely on. The new bearing in 18mm taller so takes up the 20mm defecit.

So the new setup is just under 10kg in total weight compared with 16kg for the dual mass. And it a new better quality clutch plate and new  LUK pressure plate and bearing. Total cost £235. The existing dual mass was very tired so I'm chuffed to bits. All this on the back of the y32se
« Last Edit: 11 July 2019, 22:23:27 by MikeyBikey »
Logged

dave the builder

  • Omega Baron
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Derbyshire
  • Posts: 2191
    • omega b2 2.6 cdxi
    • View Profile
Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
« Reply #23 on: 12 July 2019, 08:22:40 »

"I love it when a plan comes together "
Colonel John “Hannibal” Smith, 1983  :y

"congratulations "
Dave the Builder 2019  :D ;D
Logged

MikeyBikey

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Cornwall
  • Posts: 11
    • Reliant Scimitar GTE
    • View Profile
Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
« Reply #24 on: 12 July 2019, 18:51:13 »

"I love it when a plan comes together "
Colonel John “Hannibal” Smith, 1983  :y

"congratulations "
Dave the Builder 2019  :D ;D

thank you

how on earth do i add pictures to this blog ?


Logged

Andy B

  • Get A Life!!
  • **********
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Bury Lancs
  • Posts: 36364
    • R320 TDM850 SmartRoadster
    • View Profile
Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
« Reply #25 on: 12 July 2019, 18:56:14 »

.....

how on earth do i add pictures to this blog ?

Pictures need to be hosted elsewhere  ;)
Logged

TheBoy

  • Administrator
  • *********
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Brackley, Northants
  • Posts: 99187
  • Millennium Man
    • The missus mad
    • View Profile
Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
« Reply #26 on: 13 July 2019, 10:31:01 »

Yes, we need piccies :)

Look in the Newbie section for various options for how to host pictures on freebie hosting sites.  You will notice that we have no embedded Ads or subscriptions, which is why we don't have the space or bandwidth to host them on our servers.
Logged
I don't tolerate bickering, and I'm always grumpy.
And Lizzie Zoom says I'm a heartless bastid...and she's absolutely correct!

Nick W

  • Omega Lord
  • *******
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Chatham, Kent
  • Posts: 7187
  • Rover Metro 1.8VVC
    • 3.0l Elite estate
    • View Profile
Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
« Reply #27 on: 13 July 2019, 11:22:16 »

Here's one in an MGB:


Logged

Field Marshal Dr. Opti

  • Over Active Thyroid
  • *********
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • South Lincolnshire
  • Posts: 22920
  • Shami and TB forever.
    • View Profile
Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
« Reply #28 on: 15 July 2019, 20:00:24 »

Here's one in an MGB:




Fookin ell.........that should have some pull. :y

Far quicker than an MGC or MGB V8, I imagine. :y
Logged

henryd

  • Moaning Haddock Head
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • west cornwall
  • Posts: 8119
  • VW Touareg R5 tdi Auto
    • View Profile
Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
« Reply #29 on: 15 July 2019, 21:57:37 »

From memory the BGT V8 only pushed out around 135 bhp so the Vauxhall by will trounce that by a good margin :y
Logged
other rides 
  Saab 9-5 Aero HOT estate,Focus 1.6 mk2,Pug 306 cabriolet
  Sterling elite trekker pikey wagon

Nick W

  • Omega Lord
  • *******
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Chatham, Kent
  • Posts: 7187
  • Rover Metro 1.8VVC
    • 3.0l Elite estate
    • View Profile
Re: Fitting a Y32SE to a 1972 scimitar GTE.
« Reply #30 on: 15 July 2019, 22:00:35 »

Here's one in an MGB:



Fookin ell.........that should have some pull. :y

Far quicker than an MGC or MGB V8, I imagine. :y


60hp more than an MGC(and a lot lighter), about 80hp more than a stock V8 MGB and 20hp more than a stock 3.9 EFI Rover.


It's gone in without cutting the car, so it's completely legal and the 4cylinder diff ratio doesn't need changing unlike a Rover swap. Worst bit of the job is the exhaust manifolds.


It ought to go well and make a nice cruiser.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 [All]   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.137 seconds with 21 queries.