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Author Topic: Car wont start after sitting for 3 years  (Read 3050 times)

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Matteomart

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Re: Car wont start after sitting for 3 years
« Reply #45 on: 26 June 2019, 17:58:55 »

I've put a new crankshaft sensor and it still won't start so like people previously said it's the immobiliser.

Now for the fob, I cannot no matter what I do get it to interact with the car. I've tried taking the battery out over night I've tried pairing it again. neither of those worked does anyone have any ideas for me to check. The omega is a lovely car and it'd be a shame to scrap it.
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Matteomart

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Re: Car wont start after sitting for 3 years
« Reply #46 on: 26 June 2019, 18:23:38 »

I just read past comments. This car seems to have a chip in the key and I also have the IR fob so it's a cross over of their 2 systems?
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dave the builder

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Re: Car wont start after sitting for 3 years
« Reply #47 on: 26 June 2019, 19:16:23 »

If it's been parked 3 years ,have you looked for evidence of rodent attack ? wiring looms are a feast for some wildlife  :(
water ingress to modules ? checked ALL fuses relating to central locking,alarm etc
have you removed the powersounder ?
do you know the history of the car  :-\ has the central locking ecu ,key been replaced in the past ?
if it has an ID40 chip in key ,does it have the ring pick up round the ignition barrel  :-\

I assume that after clearing codes by removing the battery, you get immobilizer codes back when you try to start ? what code ?

lots of questions I know  ::) just trying to think what the issue is  :y
 
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Enceladus

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Re: Car wont start after sitting for 3 years
« Reply #48 on: 27 June 2019, 04:23:06 »

I cant get mine to lock with the fob, I just tried putting the key in the ignition and holding the lock button down while I point it at the sensor and I got nothing
do you have to turn the key to accessory position (lights on dash but engine not running) to sync the fob  :-\
like on astra,vectra etc
Perhaps you're not quick enough.
According to the 1995 edition owner's manual you need to point the remote fob at the sensor (by the interior light / rear view mirror) and press the lock button within 30 secs of ignition key being turned to position 2. The remote fob needs to be within eight inches of the sensor. The interior light light should flash once to indicate that the remote is synced. Not mentioned but perhaps try and do it with the doors closed.
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terry paget

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Re: Car wont start after sitting for 3 years
« Reply #49 on: 27 June 2019, 12:24:41 »

I hope it's warm and dry in Essex.
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Migv6 le Frog Fan

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Re: Car wont start after sitting for 3 years
« Reply #50 on: 27 June 2019, 12:34:49 »

It is.  :y :)
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Matteomart

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Re: Car wont start after sitting for 3 years
« Reply #51 on: 27 June 2019, 17:17:22 »

If it's been parked 3 years ,have you looked for evidence of rodent attack ? wiring looms are a feast for some wildlife  :(
water ingress to modules ? checked ALL fuses relating to central locking,alarm etc
have you removed the powersounder ?
do you know the history of the car  :-\ has the central locking ecu ,key been replaced in the past ?
if it has an ID40 chip in key ,does it have the ring pick up round the ignition barrel  :-\

I assume that after clearing codes by removing the battery, you get immobilizer codes back when you try to start ? what code ?

lots of questions I know  ::) just trying to think what the issue is  :y

I think it is possible something is water damaged, I have never made the alarm activate so i think it might be broken. And for water damage a year or so ago where the HT lead meets the spark plug had a big puddle of water in there which i emptied out and let dry. There is no sign of water on anything electrical near the fuse box. I don't know what a ring pickup thing is supposed to look like but there is a black rectangular thing attached to the ignition barrel.
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zirk

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Re: Car wont start after sitting for 3 years
« Reply #52 on: 27 June 2019, 17:30:57 »

Not sure on the 95 Immobilizer workings, but on the later ones once you had a Immobilizer lock out period (ie wont start) you had to go through a reset motion in order to try again and get it to start, might be worth trying this.

Example, you have 2 keys, one knowingly has a Transponder Chip inside, the second one doesnt or its the wrong Chip Code (but you keep it as a spare) you unlock car put the Key, doesnt start, youve put the wrong Key in (the second key), so you realise silly me put the wrong key in, so you now put the correct key and try it, still wont start, reason is its still locked up mode. to reset it ready for the correct, 1, remove Key, 2, open and close Door, 3, Lock the Door, unlock door, 4 Open Door and Key in (correct one) and start.

Possibly unplugging the Main ECU or removing the Battery for a while should have the same effect but its obviously easier to do the door thing.

The above may help you, but as said, Not sure about the early ones.

Worst case the early ones could have the Imobilizer disabled with and Tech 2 and someone who knows  what there doing, guessing your need the Car Pass as well, so all is not lost.

On the Crank Sensor front, still not convinced it wasnt faulty, I had a couple now where theyve been fine but Parked Up for a while and refuse to start due to Crank Sensor issue, and it doesnt always throw a CS Issue Code untill later on or when youve finally got it going again.

Where did you get the Crank Sensor from? anything other than walking into a VX Parts to get one could give issues (did you measure it was the new one under 1K ohms?, as said there about 900 ohms and will read about +- 10 ohms briefly wih a metallic knife etc on the sensor).
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Matteomart

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Re: Car wont start after sitting for 3 years
« Reply #53 on: 27 June 2019, 17:42:30 »

Not sure on the 95 Immobilizer workings, but on the later ones once you had a Immobilizer lock out period (ie wont start) you had to go through a reset motion in order to try again and get it to start, might be worth trying this.

Example, you have 2 keys, one knowingly has a Transponder Chip inside, the second one doesnt or its the wrong Chip Code (but you keep it as a spare) you unlock car put the Key, doesnt start, youve put the wrong Key in (the second key), so you realise silly me put the wrong key in, so you now put the correct key and try it, still wont start, reason is its still locked up mode. to reset it ready for the correct, 1, remove Key, 2, open and close Door, 3, Lock the Door, unlock door, 4 Open Door and Key in (correct one) and start.

Possibly unplugging the Main ECU or removing the Battery for a while should have the same effect but its obviously easier to do the door thing.

The above may help you, but as said, Not sure about the early ones.

Worst case the early ones could have the Imobilizer disabled with and Tech 2 and someone who knows  what there doing, guessing your need the Car Pass as well, so all is not lost.

On the Crank Sensor front, still not convinced it wasnt faulty, I had a couple now where theyve been fine but Parked Up for a while and refuse to start due to Crank Sensor issue, and it doesnt always throw a CS Issue Code untill later on or when youve finally got it going again.

Where did you get the Crank Sensor from? anything other than walking into a VX Parts to get one could give issues (did you measure it was the new one under 1K ohms?, as said there about 900 ohms and will read about +- 10 ohms briefly wih a metallic knife etc on the sensor).
The cranksensor i got on ebay it was just a cheap one to see if the car would start then i was going to pick up a genuine vx one. and i did test it and it read 852 ohms. The car has had the battery taken out for a while quite a few times since it wouldn't start so i'll try unplugging the main ecu.

The key thing I dont have a spare just 1 key that had worked every single time before
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zirk

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Re: Car wont start after sitting for 3 years
« Reply #54 on: 27 June 2019, 17:49:25 »

Not sure on the 95 Immobilizer workings, but on the later ones once you had a Immobilizer lock out period (ie wont start) you had to go through a reset motion in order to try again and get it to start, might be worth trying this.

Example, you have 2 keys, one knowingly has a Transponder Chip inside, the second one doesnt or its the wrong Chip Code (but you keep it as a spare) you unlock car put the Key, doesnt start, youve put the wrong Key in (the second key), so you realise silly me put the wrong key in, so you now put the correct key and try it, still wont start, reason is its still locked up mode. to reset it ready for the correct, 1, remove Key, 2, open and close Door, 3, Lock the Door, unlock door, 4 Open Door and Key in (correct one) and start.

Possibly unplugging the Main ECU or removing the Battery for a while should have the same effect but its obviously easier to do the door thing.

The above may help you, but as said, Not sure about the early ones.

Worst case the early ones could have the Imobilizer disabled with and Tech 2 and someone who knows  what there doing, guessing your need the Car Pass as well, so all is not lost.

On the Crank Sensor front, still not convinced it wasnt faulty, I had a couple now where theyve been fine but Parked Up for a while and refuse to start due to Crank Sensor issue, and it doesnt always throw a CS Issue Code untill later on or when youve finally got it going again.

Where did you get the Crank Sensor from? anything other than walking into a VX Parts to get one could give issues (did you measure it was the new one under 1K ohms?, as said there about 900 ohms and will read about +- 10 ohms briefly wih a metallic knife etc on the sensor).
The cranksensor i got on ebay it was just a cheap one to see if the car would start then i was going to pick up a genuine vx one. and i did test it and it read 852 ohms. The car has had the battery taken out for a while quite a few times since it wouldn't start so i'll try unplugging the main ecu.

The key thing I dont have a spare just 1 key that had worked every single time before
Yea the Spare Key thing was just as an example, maybe I explained it wrong, point being, is once you have a Transponder / Immobilizer No Start, you need to do the Reset thing before attempting to start it again  , well at least on the later Models.
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Enceladus

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Re: Car wont start after sitting for 3 years
« Reply #55 on: 28 June 2019, 05:22:54 »

I think it is possible something is water damaged, I have never made the alarm activate so i think it might be broken. And for water damage a year or so ago where the HT lead meets the spark plug had a big puddle of water in there which i emptied out and let dry. There is no sign of water on anything electrical near the fuse box. I don't know what a ring pickup thing is supposed to look like but there is a black rectangular thing attached to the ignition barrel.
Do you mean that the alarm never worked at all? Or only since the recent non-start issue arose?
AIUI not all early models had the alarm fitted as standard, it was optional on some. But they all have an immobiliser as standard. So perhaps yours has no alarm.
The key is described as an immobiliser key so it must have the ID chip in it as opposed to the separate fob. This might be an different chip than the later ID-40 (perhaps ID-33?), not sure about that. However assuming it works the same way as the newer keys then disconnecting the battery does not de-pair the key from the car.

According to the manual, if your car does have an alarm then it can be armed by pressing the close button on the remote fob, assuming it's synced. Yours apparently isn't. The alarm can also be armed using the key in the driver's door. Turn anti-clockwise to position to approx 30 before vertical. Should be just before the point where you feel resistance. To deactivate turn the key clockwise to 30 past vertical.

AIUI if the key is incorrect then the EML should flash when you try and start the car, that indicates that the immobiliser has not disengaged. Does your EML flash?
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Matteomart

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Re: Car wont start after sitting for 3 years
« Reply #56 on: 28 June 2019, 11:42:10 »

I think it is possible something is water damaged, I have never made the alarm activate so i think it might be broken. And for water damage a year or so ago where the HT lead meets the spark plug had a big puddle of water in there which i emptied out and let dry. There is no sign of water on anything electrical near the fuse box. I don't know what a ring pickup thing is supposed to look like but there is a black rectangular thing attached to the ignition barrel.
Do you mean that the alarm never worked at all? Or only since the recent non-start issue arose?
AIUI not all early models had the alarm fitted as standard, it was optional on some. But they all have an immobiliser as standard. So perhaps yours has no alarm.
The key is described as an immobiliser key so it must have the ID chip in it as opposed to the separate fob. This might be an different chip than the later ID-40 (perhaps ID-33?), not sure about that. However assuming it works the same way as the newer keys then disconnecting the battery does not de-pair the key from the car.

According to the manual, if your car does have an alarm then it can be armed by pressing the close button on the remote fob, assuming it's synced. Yours apparently isn't. The alarm can also be armed using the key in the driver's door. Turn anti-clockwise to position to approx 30 before vertical. Should be just before the point where you feel resistance. To deactivate turn the key clockwise to 30 past vertical.

AIUI if the key is incorrect then the EML should flash when you try and start the car, that indicates that the immobiliser has not disengaged. Does your EML flash?
The alarm used to work, it doesn't since the non-start issue. The eml does not flash when I crank the car, it goes off completely.
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Enceladus

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Re: Car wont start after sitting for 3 years
« Reply #57 on: 28 June 2019, 16:57:27 »

Are you positive you have fitted the correct crank sensor?
There are three different but electrically incompatible crank sensors for V6 Omegas.

The earliest has a rectangular plug with straight sides. Might have been on early 2.5 & 3.0 V6. Yours is borderline for the changeover
The two later versions have oval sides on the plug.
One of the later types is 540-550Ω (maybe Delphi) and the other is 850-900Ω and was made by Bosch. Since they both have the same plug they both will appear to fit. However they are not interchangeable. I think the 540Ω was only used on 2.5, never on 2.6 3.0 or 3.2 which use the Bosch. However some 2.5 V6s use the Bosch version. Must depend on the engine number.
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Matteomart

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Re: Car wont start after sitting for 3 years
« Reply #58 on: 28 June 2019, 17:05:37 »

Are you positive you have fitted the correct crank sensor?
There are three different but electrically incompatible crank sensors for V6 Omegas.

The earliest has a rectangular plug with straight sides. Might have been on early 2.5 & 3.0 V6. Yours is borderline for the changeover
The two later versions have oval sides on the plug.
One of the later types is 540-550Ω (maybe Delphi) and the other is 850-900Ω and was made by Bosch. Since they both have the same plug they both will appear to fit. However they are not interchangeable. I think the 540Ω was only used on 2.5, never on 2.6 3.0 or 3.2 which use the Bosch. However some 2.5 V6s use the Bosch version. Must depend on the engine number.

I got the part number off of my old one and bought a new one with the same part number and the plug looked the same
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Enceladus

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Re: Car wont start after sitting for 3 years
« Reply #59 on: 28 June 2019, 18:00:49 »

Do you still get fault code 145 and does it still change to 144 after one minute?
Are there any other fault codes? I would have thought that you should see '31 - No Engine RPM Signal', if the ignition is on. Starting normally clears it (perhaps it is only necessary to crank the engine?).

It sounds to me that the transponder receiver is not accepting your key. And since cranking does not produce a flashing EML then it also looks like the reader is not working at all. As I hazily recall, the receiver is a, flimsy looking, square black box visible underneath the ignition key barrel, when you remove the cowl.

I suspect that you need to get somebody with a Tech-2 to check what's happening. If you try to get a new key with blank transponder then, in any event that will have to be programmed to the car using Tech-2. And you will need the code from the car pass to do that.

Also it seems that either your key fob is defective. Or the receiver by the courtesy light is duff. But I don't think that would disable the immobiliser function.

Try unplugging the wiring from the immobiliser receiver and check for corrosion. Clean the terminals with some isopropyl alcohol. Then plug it back in, perhaps breaking and reconnecting might fix it.

I assume you've checked all the fuses? Especially 12, 13 & 14. And double checked the relay you changed?
« Last Edit: 28 June 2019, 18:02:31 by Enceladus »
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