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Author Topic: Filled Up with Sainburys LPG last night.  (Read 2088 times)

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zirk

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Re: Filled Up with Sainburys LPG last night.
« Reply #30 on: 08 July 2019, 15:29:59 »

Temperature does affect volume, but whether it would to the tune of 25% :-\
Yea I was thinking along them lines as well, posibility if the Stations Main Storage Tank had just been filled before hand by the Tanker, then in theory the Liquid is cooler, but everyone keeps telling that Full tank and a near empty Tank of LPG should be at the same temperature, still not convinced at that one though.  :-\
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Raeturbo

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Re: Filled Up with Sainburys LPG last night.
« Reply #31 on: 08 July 2019, 15:54:04 »

This will probably explain if anyone can understand it   I dont :y

             
The molar volume of a gas expresses the volume occupied by 1 mole of that respective gas under certain temperature and pressure conditions.
The most common example is the molar volume of a gas at STP (Standard Temperature and Pressure), which is equal to 22.4 L for 1 mole of any ideal gas at a temperature equal to 273.15 K and a pressure equal to 1.00 atm.
So, if you are given these values for temperature and pressure, the volume occupied by any number of moles of an ideal gas can be easily derived from knowing that 1 mole occupies 22.4 L.
V
=
n

V
m
o
l
a
r
For 2 moles of a gas at STP the volume will be
2
 
moles

22.4
 
L/mol
=
44.8
 
L
For 0.5 moles the volume will be
0.5
 
moles

22.4
 
L/mol
=
11.2
 
L
, and so on.
The molar volume of a gas is derived from the ideal gas law
P
V
=
n
R
T
:
P
V
=
n
R
T

V
=
n
R
T
P

V
n
=
R
T
P
Let's say you were given a temperature of 355 K and a pressure of 2.5 atm, and asked to determine the gas' molar volume at these conditions. Since molar volume refers to the volume occupied by 1 mole, you'd get
V
1 mole
=
0.082
L

a
t
m
m
o
l

K

355
K
2.5
a
t
m
=
11.6
 
L/mol
This is how much volume 1 mole occupies at 355 K and 2.5 atm. It becomes clear that the volume occupied by any number of moles at these conditions can be easily determined:
2
 
moles

11.6
 
L/mol
=
23.2
 
L
0.5
 
moles

11.6
 
L/mol
=
5.8
 
L
, and so on.
As a conclusion, knowing a gas' molar volume at a certain temperature and a certain pressure can simplify the calculation of the volume occupied by any number of moles of that respective g
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Filled Up with Sainburys LPG last night.
« Reply #32 on: 08 July 2019, 16:03:42 »

As I said in reply   #1 ::) ::) :D ;)
I wanted to ensure I that I had my facts right Lizzie before rattling cages, ie, has the Pump done my out of a few quid or has it actually over delivered, which should become apparent on my next Fill this week.  :-\

Trading Standards would or could be an option, if, Sainburys didnt play ball, but in all fairness, although a bit slow to pick up on it, they do seem to be on the case, no doubt the full story and the outcome will reveal its self in a few days time.  ;)

 :y :y

With your latest post I assume now Sainsbury's are going to do something for you? Believe me no retailer relishes an encounter with Trading Standards, so no doubt as it is such a leading company as Sainsbury's they will do more than give you the due refund ;)

I do wonder though how many other motorists who have filled up at this pump were also over charged ::) :o
No, it was over filled Lizzie.

But you paid for gas you did not get to keep? ???

You paid for 57 litres, when you could not have possibly filled up with that? :o

In my book you should only pay for what you actually recieve, can use.   ;)
« Last Edit: 08 July 2019, 16:06:04 by Lizzie Zoom »
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Eboy.com

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Re: Filled Up with Sainburys LPG last night.
« Reply #33 on: 08 July 2019, 19:04:35 »

But he did get 57l ;)
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Filled Up with Sainburys LPG last night.
« Reply #34 on: 08 July 2019, 20:20:14 »

But he did get 57l ;)

But he was not able to use 57 litres, although he paid for them. Like paying for 2 pints of beer, but only being able to drink a pint and a half. ;)

And that was now proved to be down to a faulty pump.
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Raeturbo

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Re: Filled Up with Sainburys LPG last night.
« Reply #35 on: 08 July 2019, 20:26:37 »

No it wasnít he said he did more miles
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Filled Up with Sainburys LPG last night.
« Reply #36 on: 08 July 2019, 20:44:29 »

Well, I am totally confused now!

What is the problem then if Zirk paid and used 57 litres?

His opening post, and others following, have been saying something different ::) ::)

Mind you I have never used LPG, so know nothing about it :D ;)
« Last Edit: 08 July 2019, 20:47:18 by Lizzie Zoom »
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Raeturbo

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Re: Filled Up with Sainburys LPG last night.
« Reply #37 on: 08 July 2019, 20:55:19 »

A 60 litre tank which is most prob what you have...filled to 80% will be 48 litres plus or minus maybe a litre for temperature. Some stations keep filling more than others IE above the 80% which is normal, thereís also the possibility that the float in the tank did not work properly however itís been said that itís done more miles than normal on a tankful so it must have been in there. Iíve filled a Senator 100 litre tank to 100 litre and it was in there!! I was not paying attention at the time as we expect the pump to do it for us. Itís just an anomaly he got what he paid for.
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Filled Up with Sainburys LPG last night.
« Reply #38 on: 08 July 2019, 20:57:08 »

A 60 litre tank which is most prob what you have...filled to 80% will be 48 litres plus or minus maybe a litre for temperature. Some stations keep filling more than others IE above the 80% which is normal, thereís also the possibility that the float in the tank did not work properly however itís been said that itís done more miles than normal on a tankful so it must have been in there. Iíve filled a Senator 100 litre tank to 100 litre and it was in there!! I was not paying attention at the time as we expect the pump to do it for us. Itís just an anomaly he got what he paid for.

Right, thanks, that makes it all clear, I think! ;D ;D ;D :y
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Raeturbo

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Re: Filled Up with Sainburys LPG last night.
« Reply #39 on: 08 July 2019, 21:03:25 »

Donít worry I think weíre all confused :D ;D :y
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zirk

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Re: Filled Up with Sainburys LPG last night.
« Reply #40 on: 08 July 2019, 21:25:35 »

A 60 litre tank which is most prob what you have...filled to 80% will be 48 litres plus or minus maybe a litre for temperature. Some stations keep filling more than others IE above the 80% which is normal, thereís also the possibility that the float in the tank did not work properly however itís been said that itís done more miles than normal on a tankful so it must have been in there. Iíve filled a Senator 100 litre tank to 100 litre and it was in there!! I was not paying attention at the time as we expect the pump to do it for us. Itís just an anomaly he got what he paid for.

Right, thanks, that makes it all clear, I think! ;D ;D ;D :y
ok just to clarify, my original post was based on the fact that I was p'd off because I was charged for 57 litres which had aperently got pumped into a 45 litre Tank. In my mind no way.

But having done a couple more refills I can confirm that around that amonut was delivered, or there abouts, I normally do around 300 miles on a 37 / 38 litre fill up, works out about 37 to 38 mpg poodling around, so what I actually did was when I got  close to the 300 miles, from the original Fill, I brimed it again and could only get about 16 litres in there, so by adding the 2 fills together and the 2 Milage I got and then dividing them by 2 got me back to where I normaly am, if all that makes sense. ;)
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Raeturbo

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Re: Filled Up with Sainburys LPG last night.
« Reply #41 on: 08 July 2019, 22:14:53 »

Donít worry... it scared the shit out of me when I got 100ltr in the 100 ltr tank of the Senator it done an extra 30 miles than the normal 90 I could get in (which is still too much for 100ltr tank)!!
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Rods2

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Re: Filled Up with Sainburys LPG last night.
« Reply #42 on: 08 July 2019, 23:14:44 »

A 60 litre tank which is most prob what you have...filled to 80% will be 48 litres plus or minus maybe a litre for temperature. Some stations keep filling more than others IE above the 80% which is normal, thereís also the possibility that the float in the tank did not work properly however itís been said that itís done more miles than normal on a tankful so it must have been in there. Iíve filled a Senator 100 litre tank to 100 litre and it was in there!! I was not paying attention at the time as we expect the pump to do it for us. Itís just an anomaly he got what he paid for.

Right, thanks, that makes it all clear, I think! ;D ;D ;D :y
ok just to clarify, my original post was based on the fact that I was p'd off because I was charged for 57 litres which had aperently got pumped into a 45 litre Tank. In my mind no way.

But having done a couple more refills I can confirm that around that amonut was delivered, or there abouts, I normally do around 300 miles on a 37 / 38 litre fill up, works out about 37 to 38 mpg poodling around, so what I actually did was when I got  close to the 300 miles, from the original Fill, I brimed it again and could only get about 16 litres in there, so by adding the 2 fills together and the 2 Milage I got and then dividing them by 2 got me back to where I normaly am, if all that makes sense. ;)

Simple question: Is the 45l an absolute physical capacity or a nominal capacity with some 'breathing' space left in the tank? When I was looking at LPG systems iirc they quoted the physical capacity of the tank & a second smaller normal fill capacity.
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Raeturbo

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Re: Filled Up with Sainburys LPG last night.
« Reply #43 on: 08 July 2019, 23:41:00 »

Itís always absolute,  but filled to the so called mandatory 80% so of course a 100ltr tank should only be filled to 80ltrs.
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Re: Filled Up with Sainburys LPG last night.
« Reply #44 on: 09 July 2019, 12:09:37 »

Bearing in mind because of the pressures involved, you can get more in to the same area, which is why the valve on the tank should stop the flow when (80%) full.  Clearly that failed this time, be it due to a fault in the tank valve, or a fault with the pump - I guess given enough pressure from the pump, it could overcome the tank valve  :-\
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