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Author Topic: Rattling Cat  (Read 1462 times)

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Migv6 le Frog Fan

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Re: Rattling Cat
« Reply #30 on: 30 June 2019, 09:44:15 »

The 2.5 / 3.0 downpipes don't quite fit onto the 2.6/ 3.2 fanimolds without a bit of a trim.  :y
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Rattling Cat
« Reply #31 on: 30 June 2019, 10:11:55 »

Blimey, after reading all that you have to do, all the hassle, to fit 2.5 / 3.0 cats and not the larger I would just fit the standard ones right for the car.  ::) ::) ::)

I know, a simple point of view from a female!! ;D ;D ;D ;)
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Re: Rattling Cat
« Reply #32 on: 30 June 2019, 10:39:14 »

I'm with Nick, buy a pair of 3.0L downpipes, get a pair of bosses from eBay, get them welded in (there's a guide) cut 3mm off the new pipes, and fit, use some M12 nuts n spring washers,x4, drill out both flanges, exhaust end and fit m8x55, nuts bolts washers,  off you jolly we'll go.

Trev    So for that cost I may well do this  . . .But Cut 3mm off new pipes where from , why / what for etc.  :-\ :-\     have i missed not read something or  can you advise?   :y :y :y


You cut the 3mm from the end that goes into the manifold, when you put a 3.2 alongside a3.0 downpipe all is self explanatory.
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Nick W

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Re: Rattling Cat
« Reply #33 on: 30 June 2019, 10:46:00 »

Blimey, after reading all that you have to do, all the hassle, to fit 2.5 / 3.0 cats and not the larger I would just fit the standard ones right for the car.  ::) ::) ::)

I know, a simple point of view from a female!! ;D ;D ;D ;)


you trim 3mm off the pipe that goes into the exhaust manifold - a couple of minutes careful work with an angle grinder. That's the only thing that stops you bolting the earlier cat in place, everything else is the same.


Drilling a hole for, and welding the additional lambda boss(which is the fix for a stock 3.2 cat anyway) takes less time than getting out the tools to do it. A quick look on Ebay returned bosses at £2 each.


So, perhaps 10minutes of simple work saves about £130 per side. And eliminates a common fault in the process. Why wouldn't you do it?


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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Rattling Cat
« Reply #34 on: 30 June 2019, 10:51:11 »

Blimey, after reading all that you have to do, all the hassle, to fit 2.5 / 3.0 cats and not the larger I would just fit the standard ones right for the car.  ::) ::) ::)

I know, a simple point of view from a female!! ;D ;D ;D ;)


you trim 3mm off the pipe that goes into the exhaust manifold - a couple of minutes careful work with an angle grinder. That's the only thing that stops you bolting the earlier cat in place, everything else is the same.


Drilling a hole for, and welding the additional lambda boss(which is the fix for a stock 3.2 cat anyway) takes less time than getting out the tools to do it. A quick look on Ebay returned bosses at £2 each.


So, perhaps 10minutes of simple work saves about £130 per side. And eliminates a common fault in the process. Why wouldn't you do it?

Ok, thanks :D :D :y
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Raeturbo

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Re: Rattling Cat
« Reply #35 on: 30 June 2019, 11:00:03 »

One of mine is rattling too, so my plan is to get it on the ramp and gut the two of them and see what happens before I go any further. I will report what trouble I inevitably will get into but thatís happening first ;D
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Rattling Cat
« Reply #36 on: 30 June 2019, 11:13:46 »

Blimey, after reading all that you have to do, all the hassle, to fit 2.5 / 3.0 cats and not the larger I would just fit the standard ones right for the car.  ::) ::) ::)

I know, a simple point of view from a female!! ;D ;D ;D ;)


you trim 3mm off the pipe that goes into the exhaust manifold - a couple of minutes careful work with an angle grinder. That's the only thing that stops you bolting the earlier cat in place, everything else is the same.


Drilling a hole for, and welding the additional lambda boss(which is the fix for a stock 3.2 cat anyway) takes less time than getting out the tools to do it. A quick look on Ebay returned bosses at £2 each.


So, perhaps 10minutes of simple work saves about £130 per side. And eliminates a common fault in the process. Why wouldn't you do it?

Ok, thanks :D :D :y

.....................I would add though, are these cats for £63 actually up to the standard amba needs on his 2003 3.2 Omega?

I have read the whole page of the suggested cats by Nick W post #24 -

 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fits-Vauxhall-Omega-2-5-V6-Genuine-BM-Cats-Exhaust-Manifold-Catalytic-Converter/292661536418?fits=Car+Make%3AVauxhall%7CModel%3AOmega&hash=item4423fca6a2:g:wmsAAOSwjYdbX0Vq

 I note the following warning, and these cats are NOT Type Approved, which may give you problems come the MOT?_

If your vehicle is registered before 1st March 2001, then you DO NOT need to fit a Type Approved Catalytic Converter. However, if your vehicle is registered after 1st March 2001, then YOU MUST fit a Type Approved Catalytic Converter in accordance with UK Legislation Laws.


So, just to reiterate amba Omega is a 2003 3.2 ;)

 ;)
« Last Edit: 30 June 2019, 11:21:35 by Lizzie Zoom »
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dave the builder

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Re: Rattling Cat
« Reply #37 on: 30 June 2019, 11:22:25 »

Blimey, after reading all that you have to do, all the hassle, to fit 2.5 / 3.0 cats and not the larger I would just fit the standard ones right for the car.  ::) ::) ::)

I know, a simple point of view from a female!! ;D ;D ;D ;)


you trim 3mm off the pipe that goes into the exhaust manifold - a couple of minutes careful work with an angle grinder. That's the only thing that stops you bolting the earlier cat in place, everything else is the same.


Drilling a hole for, and welding the additional lambda boss(which is the fix for a stock 3.2 cat anyway) takes less time than getting out the tools to do it. A quick look on Ebay returned bosses at £2 each.


So, perhaps 10minutes of simple work saves about £130 per side. And eliminates a common fault in the process. Why wouldn't you do it?

Ok, thanks :D :D :y

.....................I would add though, are these cats for £63 actually up to the standard amba needs on his 2003 3.2 Omega?

I have read the whole page of-

 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fits-Vauxhall-Omega-2-5-V6-Genuine-BM-Cats-Exhaust-Manifold-Catalytic-Converter/292661536418?fits=Car+Make%3AVauxhall%7CModel%3AOmega&hash=item4423fca6a2:g:wmsAAOSwjYdbX0Vq

as suggested I note the following warning, and these cats are NOT Type Approved, which may give you problems come the MOT?_

If your vehicle is registered before 1st March 2001, then you DO NOT need to fit a Type Approved Catalytic Converter. However, if your vehicle is registered after 1st March 2001, then YOU MUST fit a Type Approved Catalytic Converter in accordance with UK Legislation Laws.


 ;)

the only time anyone official will look at his car is at MOT time
the car is that old that the NT (nominated tester  ,MOT man) won't know or remember that the 3.2 or 2.6 had an extra cat section compared to the 2.5 or 3.0, he will look to see it has a cat , and will test the exhaust emissions , which the car will need to pass  :y

so having the cats warmed up before MOT is a good idea ,and fun  ;D :D
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Rattling Cat
« Reply #38 on: 30 June 2019, 11:26:44 »

Blimey, after reading all that you have to do, all the hassle, to fit 2.5 / 3.0 cats and not the larger I would just fit the standard ones right for the car.  ::) ::) ::)

I know, a simple point of view from a female!! ;D ;D ;D ;)


you trim 3mm off the pipe that goes into the exhaust manifold - a couple of minutes careful work with an angle grinder. That's the only thing that stops you bolting the earlier cat in place, everything else is the same.


Drilling a hole for, and welding the additional lambda boss(which is the fix for a stock 3.2 cat anyway) takes less time than getting out the tools to do it. A quick look on Ebay returned bosses at £2 each.


So, perhaps 10minutes of simple work saves about £130 per side. And eliminates a common fault in the process. Why wouldn't you do it?

Ok, thanks :D :D :y

.....................I would add though, are these cats for £63 actually up to the standard amba needs on his 2003 3.2 Omega?

I have read the whole page of-

 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fits-Vauxhall-Omega-2-5-V6-Genuine-BM-Cats-Exhaust-Manifold-Catalytic-Converter/292661536418?fits=Car+Make%3AVauxhall%7CModel%3AOmega&hash=item4423fca6a2:g:wmsAAOSwjYdbX0Vq

as suggested I note the following warning, and these cats are NOT Type Approved, which may give you problems come the MOT?_

If your vehicle is registered before 1st March 2001, then you DO NOT need to fit a Type Approved Catalytic Converter. However, if your vehicle is registered after 1st March 2001, then YOU MUST fit a Type Approved Catalytic Converter in accordance with UK Legislation Laws.


 ;)

the only time anyone official will look at his car is at MOT time
the car is that old that the NT (nominated tester  ,MOT man) won't know or remember that the 3.2 or 2.6 had an extra cat section compared to the 2.5 or 3.0, he will look to see it has a cat , and will test the exhaust emissions , which the car will need to pass  :y

so having the cats warmed up before MOT is a good idea ,and fun  ;D :D

I hope you are right Dave, but it has to be a gamble with the MOT being beefed up.  After spending the money, applying a lot of time and effort to fit these sub-standard cats to amba's car he could find it failing and having to revert to plane A, involving more costs and time!

Personally I have always stuck to the legal approach to avoid future hassle :D ;)

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Nick W

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Re: Rattling Cat
« Reply #39 on: 30 June 2019, 11:33:48 »


the only time anyone official will look at his car is at MOT time
the car is that old that the NT (nominated tester  ,MOT man) won't know or remember that the 3.2 or 2.6 had an extra cat section compared to the 2.5 or 3.0, he will look to see it has a cat , and will test the exhaust emissions , which the car will need to pass  :y

so having the cats warmed up before MOT is a good idea ,and fun  ;D :D


Exactly.


There's a lot of rubbish talked about pattern parts in general and cats in particular. Yet thousands of businesses fit them everyday to make money - you lose money if your customer returns with a fault you could have avoided. That said, everybody has largely anecdotal evidence for why they avoid certain brands - I don't buy Denso sparkplugs on the basis of two sets that lacked durability. That's not a big enough sample to make a definitive conclusion, but avoiding them is so easy it makes more sense to do so.


I don't expect a £70 cat to last 15 years like the originals did, but then the rest of the car is unlikely to do so either. Also, my experience over the last 30 years is that no replacement part lasts as long as the original(even if genuine), which is one reason I dislike disturbing stuff unnecessarily. That brings us back to the cost/benefit/hassle/performance comparison that only you can prioritise.
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dave the builder

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Re: Rattling Cat
« Reply #40 on: 30 June 2019, 11:48:16 »

I'd think the only reason they fitted 2 cats per bank was to reduce emissions further
but one well positioned,decent cat will do the job
fit 2 in one pipe and the second may never get hot enough until 30 mins of driving, which for some owners ,is the journey  ::)

as for reducing emissions , I've said before, an older car ,used for 20 years must have less "carbon footprint" than building and recycling 2 or 3 cars that have less emissions out the exhaust pipe  :-\
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Rattling Cat
« Reply #41 on: 30 June 2019, 11:52:27 »


the only time anyone official will look at his car is at MOT time
the car is that old that the NT (nominated tester  ,MOT man) won't know or remember that the 3.2 or 2.6 had an extra cat section compared to the 2.5 or 3.0, he will look to see it has a cat , and will test the exhaust emissions , which the car will need to pass  :y

so having the cats warmed up before MOT is a good idea ,and fun  ;D :D


Exactly.


There's a lot of rubbish talked about pattern parts in general and cats in particular. Yet thousands of businesses fit them everyday to make money - you lose money if your customer returns with a fault you could have avoided. That said, everybody has largely anecdotal evidence for why they avoid certain brands - I don't buy Denso sparkplugs on the basis of two sets that lacked durability. That's not a big enough sample to make a definitive conclusion, but avoiding them is so easy it makes more sense to do so.


I don't expect a £70 cat to last 15 years like the originals did, but then the rest of the car is unlikely to do so either. Also, my experience over the last 30 years is that no replacement part lasts as long as the original(even if genuine), which is one reason I dislike disturbing stuff unnecessarily. That brings us back to the cost/benefit/hassle/performance comparison that only you can prioritise.

I didn't specifically question the life longevity of these cats, but the legal status of them.

An MOT tester on the ball will see the conversion work to make the non Type rated cats fit, and these are guys who now fail vehicles for having air fresheners on the screen, let alone fully technical issues.  If the regs say you must have a certain standard of exhaust system part fitted, and you do different, then there is a risk of failure.  You may get away with it twice out of three MOT's, but the risk is there.

That is what I was pointing out.  You get what you pay for :D ;)
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Re: Rattling Cat
« Reply #42 on: 30 June 2019, 12:54:56 »

  Nick . . . .presume that you had no issues at MOT time with those replacements fitted?

Some will follow your good advice  . . .but on here there will always be someone looking into issues too deeply. 
Senario:  MOT  man will shove the sensor up the exhaust , run the programme, emissions results will come out , car passes if OK.

Is any tester gonna say you have the wrong cats fitted . . .   Several , if not more , Oofers have taken this route of fitting 3.0 cats to 3.2's and i don't recall any issues at MOT time being reported .

But . . .if these actual £63 cats don't pass the UK MOT emissions testing then of course there is problem  :-\

Lets see what Nick says about his experience at MOT time
« Last Edit: 30 June 2019, 12:57:01 by Alnico Blue »
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Re: Rattling Cat
« Reply #43 on: 30 June 2019, 13:24:21 »

Weren't they added from a legislation point of view for Euro IV (or whatever) I thought that whether your car is from 1996, or 2003, the emissions test on the MoT is the same parts per million/carbons etc. However, if a manufacturer wanted to make a car in 2003 to the same engine specs of a 1996 car, they wouldn't get type approval. Bit that's not the same as what you're allowed on the MoT.
Hence why dozens of FL Omega owners have fitted earlier cats and passed emissions tests every year, because euro/worldwide emissions regs and MoT test regs aren't one and the same. That's how I understood it
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Nick W

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Re: Rattling Cat
« Reply #44 on: 30 June 2019, 13:47:10 »

  Nick . . . .presume that you had no issues at MOT time with those replacements fitted?

Some will follow your good advice  . . .but on here there will always be someone looking into issues too deeply. 
Senario:  MOT  man will shove the sensor up the exhaust , run the programme, emissions results will come out , car passes if OK.

Is any tester gonna say you have the wrong cats fitted . . .   Several , if not more , Oofers have taken this route of fitting 3.0 cats to 3.2's and i don't recall any issues at MOT time being reported .

But . . .if these actual £63 cats don't pass the UK MOT emissions testing then of course there is problem  :-\

Lets see what Nick says about his experience at MOT time


I used them on a 3.0 which had the 3.2 manifolds fitted. So I did trim the ends to fit the manifolds, but didn't need to fit extra lambda bosses. The only difference I noticed between the new and old cats was that the new ones didn't rattle. They fit perfectly, didn't affect performance, exhaust volume/tone or affect the (very basic) MOT emissions test. And they were still doing all of that five years later when I got rid of the car.




There is nothing on the parts that say whether they're Type Approved. Once they've been on the car for a few months with heat and dirt staining, nobody is going to care.


The MOT tester is going to note the conversion work. Really? How? The trimmed pipe is inside the manifold. The extra boss might be noticeable, but the main reason for that is that the welding is likely to be prettier than the stock ones!
« Last Edit: 30 June 2019, 13:58:53 by Nick W »
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