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Author Topic: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot  (Read 1240 times)

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Lizzie Zoom

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Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« on: 07 July 2019, 08:50:27 »

Now on from my Spring Clean thread:

With me acquiring a good supply of Supertrol for the first time thanks to the many recommendations about it, with me currently being in the mood to forget damaging my nails, mucking up my hair, and ignoring my aching old back, I have been thinking about the worst bodywork problem of the Omega, and the Senator before - rear wheel arch rot.

Now my are bubbling and for the last thee years I have been trying to keep on top of it, with much rubbing down, treatment and reprinting. Of course I have only been working to keep on top of the symptom, not the cause, which the expert body shop guy I now know has explained will cost around 1,000 to fully address with the specialist work he can do on the inner parts of those sections of bodywork, plus respraying the whole back end to match the newness of the front.

So, a thought. Thinking of what a number of you have said about going in behind the panels. If I was to rub the very small sections of faulty arches down, then drill very small holes in the outer panels, then spray Supertrol in large quantities through the straw into the inner sections, will it reduce, or even stop, the progression of rot? ??? ???

I would obviously fill the holes, refinish the panel surface with Isopon, then rub down to prime and paint as usual.

Any observations, thoughts, please? ??? :D ;)


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JamesV6CDX

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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #1 on: 07 July 2019, 09:20:40 »

Personally Id say its futile, sorry Lizzie.
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dave the builder

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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #2 on: 07 July 2019, 09:28:01 »

On mine, i removed the back wheels(to get in the arch) ,sill ends and arch liners removed all the dry mud etc,
I noticed the lip of the arch has a bead of seam sealer round it which was not really sealing  :(
with a sharp knife , I cut all that seam sealer out wire brushed everywhere, cleaned with brake clean so it was spotless,
treated any rust areas with kurust, etch primed,metal protection paint, re-sealed with plenty of panel mount ,some areas i did put a thick coat of waxoil  :-X when dry refitted all panels , supertroled from inside the boot ,
I intend to revisit the arches in this dry weather to see what is going on and do a more thorough job including stripping out all the boot trim/carpet for access
also have a few bubbles in the near side rear door skin right at the bottom ,water has got in the skin seam  :'( :
for some reason , this door on carltons, sennys and it seems omegas all start to rust before the others from what i've seen  :-\
(so whoever at Russelsheim is responsible for painting N/S/R doors wants F****ng with the fat end of a rag mans trumpet  >:( )
I did treat it but 2 small 50p size sections are visible outside the door due to me putting too much paint on to protect it until  i can use the correct matched paint (which I got to re-paint the front pro-drive bumper ,original CDX replaced)

I'd try and avoid drilling holes unless from inside the boot double skin areas and make sure it is 100% re-sealed

 
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VXL V6

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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #3 on: 07 July 2019, 09:32:32 »

Once rust starts all you can do is cut it out and weld in new metal. Rust treatments, filler, paint etc are only ever going to delay / slow down the spread but not stop it.

This is why it's important to know the full condition of the sills and front chassis rails because you then know just how much work is required to keep the car on the road for the long term / make a decision when to scrap it. Rear arch repair, while involved because of paint costs etc is pointless if the front chassis rails have a rust hole in them or the rear seatbelt mounting / rear suspension arm mount point is heavily corroded.
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #4 on: 07 July 2019, 09:52:01 »

Once rust starts all you can do is cut it out and weld in new metal. Rust treatments, filler, paint etc are only ever going to delay / slow down the spread but not stop it.

This is why it's important to know the full condition of the sills and front chassis rails because you then know just how much work is required to keep the car on the road for the long term / make a decision when to scrap it. Rear arch repair, while involved because of paint costs etc is pointless if the front chassis rails have a rust hole in them or the rear seatbelt mounting / rear suspension arm mount point is heavily corroded.

But that is the thing, mine is all very sound and after my re-inspection of the underneath of the car I can really say it.  Let's put it this way, from what I can see and hammer to test, the amount of good metal is enough to make me believe it is good for another 5 years at least, any more is going to be a bonus, and anyway I may give up driving by then! :D ;)

No, it is only the top of the wheel arches that are causing me concern, which I recognise any work I do is probably putting off the inevitable, whenever that is.  That is why I have the quote to have it all attended to by a specialist who has explained in depth what he can do from within the arches, cutting out and welding back in sections of metal.  All for around 1,000, so I am saving hard! :D :D :y
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dave the builder

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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #5 on: 07 July 2019, 09:53:27 »

100% agree
but new metal rusts too  ;D
delaying rust is all we can do
definitely inspect all the prescribed areas and only spend money on cosmetics IF your car will last long enough to benefit from cosmetic repair,
though sharp edges are an MOT fail on wheel arches , so a temporary cheap fill and blow over is worth doing if required

that said, if you have money spare but lack the skill and knowledge, getting a full structural inspection and treatment or repair is viable IF the car is worth more to YOU than the car is actually worth (which are 2 different things  ;D
chassis rails etc can be repaired but it's not cheap
 
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #6 on: 07 July 2019, 10:05:57 »

Personally Id say its futile, sorry Lizzie.

Yes, no doubt you are right James, but it is such a late production car, which even now has only covered 77k miles, that has most things going for it, I will persevere no matter what the cost in terms of time and money. 

Buying another car now is just not a practical solution, and apart from acquiring a new car which is highly unlikely, what would I be inheriting in other more troubling issues, on a car that cannot possibly match my 3.2 that I can work on, know a lot about, and have a great forum to get answers from! :D :D :D 8) 8)

I previously did break away from Vauxhall's from 2002 to about 2008 for practical reasons (a divorce :'( :'( : : HE kept the non company car!!) and kept a 1979, F reg, Toyota Carina II estate going from 160,000 miles on the clock to 250,000, with even trading it in 300, the same as I paid for it, to get my then next Omega.  We, him and I, also kept a 1968 Wolsley Hornet going for 6 years, plus one of our ex-company, 1986, Carlton's, with 120,000 miles on the clock after our 18 month business use of it, that kept on going with our maintenance for over 5 years. This Omega I now have had the longest out of all I have ever had (5) and will keep going to the end as I know there will be no more! :'( :'( :'(

So, I am committed to keep this one going as far as my bodywork repair limitations allow me to! :y :y
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VXL V6

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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #7 on: 07 July 2019, 11:06:35 »

Anything you do will improve the situation, it may slow it down but it won't stop it is really what I am trying to say.

The reason I mention the front chassis rails is that what looks like a bit of surface rust that a wire brush and spot of a n other rust treatment will solve is sadly not enough, they rust from the inside out so if it appears on the outside it has eaten all the way through.

My two Omegas that are C 100K were much worse for corrosion than my 218K daily driver so I'd be cautious assuming that low mileage will reflect positively on the underside condition of the vehicle.

Like yourself I intend to keep my Omegas for as long as possible, as such one of them will be having rear arch work done by AndyC in the coming months, but this car has also had sills and a front chassis rail repair previously, like you I feel this car is worth the effort and expense.

Anyway, it could be worse, you could own a Disco or SD1 which requires you to carry a welder on the boot!
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #8 on: 07 July 2019, 11:36:47 »

Anything you do will improve the situation, it may slow it down but it won't stop it is really what I am trying to say.

The reason I mention the front chassis rails is that what looks like a bit of surface rust that a wire brush and spot of a n other rust treatment will solve is sadly not enough, they rust from the inside out so if it appears on the outside it has eaten all the way through.

My two Omegas that are C 100K were much worse for corrosion than my 218K daily driver so I'd be cautious assuming that low mileage will reflect positively on the underside condition of the vehicle.

Like yourself I intend to keep my Omegas for as long as possible, as such one of them will be having rear arch work done by AndyC in the coming months, but this car has also had sills and a front chassis rail repair previously, like you I feel this car is worth the effort and expense.

Anyway, it could be worse, you could own a Disco or SD1 which requires you to carry a welder on the boot!

Once more, very, very useful comments and observations VXL V6, which I am taking fully on board! :-* :-* 8) :y :y

I have also been carrying out some product research, and have come across this one:

Comma WS500M 500ml Wax Seal Aerosol

This product, which is for cavities,  seems to claim, with others confirming, that it really does stop rust, then protects the metal, I thought I would apply this first inside the arch panels through my drilled holes then also apply the Supertrol once that has dried to give even more protection. A double approach that I can not resist, and I will use both products elsewhere around the chassis weak points that have been highlighted to me. ;)

My new war on rust has started in full!! I have also ordered new 2.5 tonne wide car ramps, heavy duty extension ramps and a high lift. to 550mm, trolley jack to update my equipment so I can easily get right under the car without restriction, and back ache!!:D :D :D
« Last Edit: 07 July 2019, 11:41:11 by Lizzie Zoom »
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dave the builder

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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #9 on: 07 July 2019, 12:00:57 »

every day is a school day  :-[
"heavy duty extension ramps"
I have to empty my boot to get my omega up on my ramps (to clear the bumper )  ;D
no chance of driving forward on to them
just googled them "words" Lizzie and it appears i'm an idiot who's been struggling with bricks ,bottle jacks  :-[

I will look into purchasing something ,
so thank you  :) :y
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johnnydog

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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #10 on: 07 July 2019, 12:15:16 »

All these rust preventative treatments are primarily only good for solid rust free metal. That's why treating a car in its early stages of life is obviously better. Once rust has started showing itself, these treatments will only slow the onset of corrosion, not eradicate it.
The other point to consider is that if there is a possibility that in the near future you are going anywhere near an area with a welding torch, then I wouldnt suggest treating it with any type of treatment similar to waxoyl or the like, unless you don't mind your pride and joy going up in flames  :D Waxoyl for instance is very flammable and heat travels when welding so any previously wax treated areas that need welding have to be free from these treatments and also need to be worked on with extreme care!!!
MIG welding needs very clean solid metal, cleaner than gas welding, and there is far less distortion with MIG and not as much heat. But both need clean areas to do it properly.
So in short, if you think you need to have any type of welding done in the near future, then I would definitely save any cavity treatments until there is new metal in there.
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dave the builder

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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #11 on: 07 July 2019, 12:27:37 »

very good point Mr Johnydog  :y
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #12 on: 07 July 2019, 12:38:02 »

All these rust preventative treatments are primarily only good for solid rust free metal. That's why treating a car in its early stages of life is obviously better. Once rust has started showing itself, these treatments will only slow the onset of corrosion, not eradicate it.
The other point to consider is that if there is a possibility that in the near future you are going anywhere near an area with a welding torch, then I wouldnt suggest treating it with any type of treatment similar to waxoyl or the like, unless you don't mind your pride and joy going up in flames :D Waxoyl for instance is very flammable and heat travels when welding so any previously wax treated areas that need welding have to be free from these treatments and also need to be worked on with extreme care!!!
MIG welding needs very clean solid metal, cleaner than gas welding, and there is far less distortion with MIG and not as much heat. But both need clean areas to do it properly.
So in short, if you think you need to have any type of welding done in the near future, then I would definitely save any cavity treatments until there is new metal in there.

Ah.  Food for even more thought!!

In the meantime though I cannot just sit back and let just a small amount of rust (compared to what I have seen before on wheel arches) get so much worse.  I do not want to spend 1,000 at the moment, and probably / perhaps not for another ear.

Would a car body specialist not use some form of wax neutralising system before welding? ??? ???

Thanks for raising this point though :y :y
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #13 on: 07 July 2019, 14:03:59 »

Even a replacement quarter panel will start to rust on the arch within a few years.

Either restore it properly and keep it in an air-conditioned garage or leave it be and save to buy a replacement when it fails its MoT or you can't bear the sight of the rust. Whichever comes first.

Trying to keep a daily driver rust free is arguably a waste of time  :-\
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #14 on: 07 July 2019, 14:21:48 »

Even a replacement quarter panel will start to rust on the arch within a few years.

Either restore it properly and keep it in an air-conditioned garage or leave it be and save to buy a replacement when it fails its MoT or you can't bear the sight of the rust. Whichever comes first.

Trying to keep a daily driver rust free is arguably a waste of time  :-\

I know you are right DG, but at least it keeps me busy! :D :D ;)

This is not a daily driver either, and nowadays spends more time in a dry garage, but without a/c., than being driven ;D ;D

I am not spending big money - yet- that would come with the new panels, but they would rust as you say, but they would last to after I do not want this type of car anyone.  I think on balance I will just continue to keep it all as a hobby, and that is what it is, enjoy what I have, and just do what is necessary now, at this point in time, to SLOW down the rot, which you and others are right about. It will NEVER stop; never does with our cars.

I would say I wish they had built them of fiberglass, but I once saw a Reliant Robin after an accident back in the 1970's.  It was in small pieces all across the road!! :o :o ;)

Oh well, let's have some fun during the next week when I'm feeling bored and all the housework and other chores are done. With my new additional maintenance equipment it will be back to under the Omega!! ;D ;D :)
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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #15 on: 07 July 2019, 15:04:44 »

Trying to keep a daily driver rust free is arguably a waste of time  :-\
Unless its aluminium, which doesn't technically "rust" :P
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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #16 on: 07 July 2019, 16:04:20 »

Trying to keep a daily driver rust free is arguably a waste of time  :-\
Unless its aluminium, which doesn't technically "rust" :P
Potayto potarto ::) it does oxidise every time you scratch it...  :P
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Nick W

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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #17 on: 07 July 2019, 20:21:44 »

Personally Id say its futile, sorry Lizzie.


complete waste of time, money and expensive materials.
Either havethe rot(all of it) cut out and new metal welded in, or ignore it until it's really bad.
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #18 on: 07 July 2019, 20:59:17 »

Personally Id say its futile, sorry Lizzie.


complete waste of time, money and expensive materials.
Either havethe rot(all of it) cut out and new metal welded in, or ignore it until it's really bad.

Yes, I know you, and others, are correct, but as it is probably my last car, definetly last Omega, that overall is in great condition for it's age I(constantly classed as that by those that do the MOT or work on it) and I have ensured she has had the best attention I can afford, for the sack of 60 of materials and time I have plenty of, I must keep trying to keep it going. The relatively small amount of bubbling I have to attend to means I can cosmetically maintain her to a fair standard, or at least one I can live with for say the next 5 years, and that is judged on my experience with a Senator that had far worse rot than this 'slight' bubbling.

Actually having the serious work done that I have had quoted is the big question for me. Is it worth spending over 1,000 on a car that may last another 5 years, when in any case without that work I can still make her last that length of time?

Away from the emotional assessment, and using a business brain, spending 1,000 capital on a car worth, even to me, no more than 4,000 cannot be justified, as it is no where near a good return on capital expenditure. But, the occasional attention I can give it, at low expense, to help it last 5 years, is acceptable. That is considered normal depreciation down to write off.

If it lasts over 5 years, and I am still requiring the Omega, that will be simply be a bonus. ;)
« Last Edit: 07 July 2019, 21:08:34 by Lizzie Zoom »
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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #19 on: 07 July 2019, 21:25:13 »

1. It's a car. It will depreciate regardless of what you spend on it.

2. Capital expenditure is irrelevant unless it is a genuine business asset.

3. See 1, but keeping it nice is satisfying as long as you can afford to  :y

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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #20 on: 07 July 2019, 21:58:23 »

1. It's a car. It will depreciate regardless of what you spend on it.

2. Capital expenditure is irrelevant unless it is a genuine business asset.

3. See 1, but keeping it nice is satisfying as long as you can afford to  :y

That is right, but I am assessing it as tool to help me get around and do my (private) business, and as with any business asset that is an aid to your business, to give you either profit or simple benefit to trading. It will be written down as either a straight  depreciation over 5 years, in some cases just 3 years, or a staggard depreciation over those time scales, dependant on the nature of the asset. Bricks and mortar or land assets are different, usually appreciating, but will have a set 'book value'. In other words any amount I put into the car beyond standard maintenance, such as new sections of wings, has to be justified (usually by completing a Capex in my professional life to reflect gains to qualify the cost). This is how I work and calculate what I do with my money outside of standard living costs. My training means I have to do it! ::) :D :D

The car, as with any other I have ever owned, or joint owned, outside of 25 years of enjoying brand new company cars, will be written off financially, so yes it will be worth zero when I get rid, with any sale value considered a bonus. In the meantime this Omega, to me, is worth every penny of 4,000 as a like for like car would cost at least as much as that. Another private business justification for expenditure. But, no, if we all worked our lives out logically most of our cars could not be justified; they are fantastic losers of our money, but we want them of the standard we expect, not what any small smart car could (not)'offer us! ::) ::)

Being of older years now there is no guarantee I will live for x number of years more, or be able medically to drive any more. So value is rather subjective; anything I spend on the old girl is always with that in mind.

I gave costings to date for this Omega in another thread, Omega Ownership Costs, and they balance out in a perfectly acceptable way when compared to alternative car ownership senarios for me. I enjoy what I have, and currently run with it. If the situation changes then I will make decisions accordingly.

I believe most of us do that anyway with our motor vehicles, but the aging Omega is something else!! ;D ;D :y
« Last Edit: 07 July 2019, 22:00:33 by Lizzie Zoom »
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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #21 on: 08 July 2019, 01:01:31 »

If you decided not to repair the Omega, and buy a new car, compare it with buying a new Eurobox, at say 250 per month, then you will have spent 3000 in a year (less what you get for the Omega).
You will have that new car smell (for a short time anyway), but have to perhaps put up with a 1.5 litre engine, and whilst it should be 100% reliable, the satisfaction you get driving your 3.2 Omega will probably not be there. Your 1000 input into your Omega in my book makes sense as you obviously love the car and probably wouldn't have same pride of ownership with anything else.
If you feel it warrants the wheelarch repairs Lizzie, go for it!
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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #22 on: 08 July 2019, 01:36:15 »

As much as I loved my Omegas, they will never be the car that I desire as either a project or a long term ownership prospect.

As a daily driver, the realistic aim is to keep it serviceable first and nice second. In that order. The point at which you restore or dispose of it is when it no longer meets the first point without continuous expenditure. At this point daily duties will be passed to another vehicle.

Keeping it nice is very much about having the spare money to do so, but the more you use the car the more this will cost and consequently it becomes a very subjective point

Whether you then completely restore it once retired from daily duties or not depends on money, motivation and inclination. Without out any one of these it simply won't happen.
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dave the builder

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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #23 on: 08 July 2019, 07:15:12 »

My take on Lizzie's arch situation
do rust treatment we discussed, top up said treatment each year, if it warrants it then buy some filler and a can of touch up paint and DIY the arch ,if it has sharp edges( it will fail MOT ) or is unsightly .
Save the 1000 until it is needed to get the car past MOT
 say it needs a couple of plates welding on in 3 years , the money to do so is "resting in the account"  ;D
no point in Having 1000 wheel arches and no MOT
but spending a little now on slowing down rust ,has to be a good thing  :)
though I did tell Lizzie a year ago when she saved money having Serek do her engine and wishbones to buy supertrol   ::)  :-X  ;D
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #24 on: 08 July 2019, 09:05:54 »

Thanks for all your invaluable input. It really is helping me to reach a decision  :-* :-* :y

The thing is you are ALL correct in what you say, with DG, Nick, James most recently pointing out the car will self destruct, and our Omega's are now not worth putting large amounts of money into, and whatever I do it will never be enough. So these guys say spending 1,000 to treat what is a very small amount of current rust, but which would greatly limit it's spread, although it and other parts of the car will continue to,suffer from rot, is a waste of money due to the car being 16 years of age. They are so right! That to me is so logical 8) 8)

Then Dave, Jonnydog and others previously are also right in reinforcing my love of this car, it's personal value to me - forget the ,s,d - the fact it is still going strong (touch wood), has had Serek do some major mechanical work on her, and i have kept it going in my way, which I can do on this car (maybe not another one);  in short I love it, it fully meets my needs of the next few years and I must keep her going.  It is though illogical to throw more money at a 16 year old Omega that is showing just small signs of bodywork deterioration, which WILL in spite of all my efforts continue, but that can be controlled enough to slow the destruction of this beloved car down.

So, decisions, decisions. Time for logic, practicality, and realism.

I cannot afford the 1,000 for some time,,and now I am deciding NOT to have that work done.  I will now do the small amount of work, costing little, treat the areas discussed with Supertrol and the Bodywork Wax product I have ordered to keep her going for as long as I can, but accepting NOTHING, as with human life expectancy, is guaranteed. I will keep maintaining her well mechanically so to try and ensure she keeps going, is legally compliant, safe and can perform at the standard I want. But, for me the car is not everything in life, far from it, so I will cut my cloth accordingly.

If everything  falls apart before 3 years, then, even then, I will consider this car gave me the return on expenditure to justify it.

Thanks again all for your wonderful input and being realistic :-* :-* 8) :y







« Last Edit: 08 July 2019, 09:09:10 by Lizzie Zoom »
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Tick Tock

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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #25 on: 08 July 2019, 09:50:01 »

I think you should be applauded Lizzie for wanting to get down and make things last a bit longer on a car you're obviously in love with. It's also interesting to see the various comments from members on here with so many different views on keeping Omegas on the road. For your 100 outlay and a bit of proper application in the right places, there's no reason why the car shouldn't deteriorate any further in the next 5 years at least.

You may have a few blisters on the wheel arches at the moment, but if you treat the areas inside well, all you will need to do is occasionally polish the bodywork around the affected areas to make it look pretty, as the root cause of the rot will be pickled in treatments that will slow down its advance for the time being.

There's no getting away from the fact that once rust has started, you will never kill it unless you cut out and replace with good, as has been said, new bits will already have started oxidising from the start. Providing there's no holes at the moment, you must get to all the areas inside the wheel arch, and this will involve removing bits of trim (and don't forget how much penetration and protection you can get by removing a screw on the rear door latch). Make sure that any affected area has been soaked (penetrating oil is good for starters), then apply your potions afterwards, the capillary action drawing fluids into every conceivable pocket (especially down towards the sills where the backdoor has a habit of retaining moisture). After a couple of days apply another squirt of your favoured protector for good measure.

For another 5 years with no worries of the car looking like a skip, I think 100 and a few days in your case is well spent (that excludes all the other areas of the car that will need attention next summer, and the summer after........ ) .  :y

 
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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #26 on: 08 July 2019, 10:00:54 »

I think you should be applauded Lizzie for wanting to get down and make things last a bit longer on a car you're obviously in love with. It's also interesting to see the various comments from members on here with so many different views on keeping Omegas on the road. For your 100 outlay and a bit of proper application in the right places, there's no reason why the car shouldn't deteriorate any further in the next 5 years at least.

You may have a few blisters on the wheel arches at the moment, but if you treat the areas inside well, all you will need to do is occasionally polish the bodywork around the affected areas to make it look pretty, as the root cause of the rot will be pickled in treatments that will slow down its advance for the time being.

There's no getting away from the fact that once rust has started, you will never kill it unless you cut out and replace with good, as has been said, new bits will already have started oxidising from the start. Providing there's no holes at the moment, you must get to all the areas inside the wheel arch, and this will involve removing bits of trim (and don't forget how much penetration and protection you can get by removing a screw on the rear door latch). Make sure that any affected area has been soaked (penetrating oil is good for starters), then apply your potions afterwards, the capillary action drawing fluids into every conceivable pocket (especially down towards the sills where the backdoor has a habit of retaining moisture). After a couple of days apply another squirt of your favoured protector for good measure.

For another 5 years with no worries of the car looking like a skip, I think 100 and a few days in your case is well spent (that excludes all the other areas of the car that will need attention next summer, and the summer after........ ) .  :y

 

Thanks Tick Tock, yes that is how I see it 8) :y :y
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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #27 on: 08 July 2019, 11:13:16 »

Is there a drawing of a cross section of the rear wheel arch panel showing in particular the cavity at the top of the arch available anywhere please?

I want to understand where I can safely drill very small holes into the rim of the arch to get between the two skins and strategically direct the Supertrol spray through the straw for best effect. ;)

My plan is that the fine spray, from one 500ml can of Supertrol per arch will fall down, perambulate, the inside of the panels and reach parts that normally are not reachable from the outside. ;)
« Last Edit: 08 July 2019, 11:21:35 by Lizzie Zoom »
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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #28 on: 08 July 2019, 11:19:52 »

Is there a drawing of a cross section of the rear wheel arch panel showing in particular the cavity at the top of the arch available anywhere please?

I want to understand where I can safely drill very small holes into the rim of the arch to get between the two skins and strategically direct the Supertrol spray through the straw for best effect. ;)


If you're determined to do that, then drill up from the inner arch as close to the flange as you dare. Be very careful not to drill through the outer panel as well. How do you intend to stop the hole(s) making a worse rust-trap than the Vauxhall designed one you have already?
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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #29 on: 08 July 2019, 11:25:54 »

Is there a drawing of a cross section of the rear wheel arch panel showing in particular the cavity at the top of the arch available anywhere please?

I want to understand where I can safely drill very small holes into the rim of the arch to get between the two skins and strategically direct the Supertrol spray through the straw for best effect. ;)


If you're determined to do that, then drill up from the inner arch as close to the flange as you dare. Be very careful not to drill through the outer panel as well. How do you intend to stop the hole(s) making a worse rust-trap than the Vauxhall designed one you have already?

I will drill into the areas of 'bubble', so an area already not perfect, then after treating with Supertrol, fill these holes with Isopone, and fully sand down, anti-rust prime, and paint.  I cannot see another way that I can do it anyway, and it will buy me the years I need.  Better than doing nothing or spending 1,000 as already discussed :D :D ;)
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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #30 on: 08 July 2019, 12:27:22 »

Both filler and paint need to be applied to a shiny, flat, dry, greasefree surface. You're not going to manage that pasting it over a hole that you've injected rustproofing gunge into.


Your plan is going to make your car look much worse for no gain.
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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #31 on: 08 July 2019, 12:38:59 »

Both filler and paint need to be applied to a shiny, flat, dry, greasefree surface. You're not going to manage that pasting it over a hole that you've injected rustproofing gunge into.


Your plan is going to make your car look much worse for no gain.

Ok, thanks, but what do I do then to get Supertrol into that area so that once I have dealt with the external problem, the internal does not break through? ??? ??? ;)
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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #32 on: 08 July 2019, 12:41:08 »

Both filler and paint need to be applied to a shiny, flat, dry, greasefree surface. You're not going to manage that pasting it over a hole that you've injected rustproofing gunge into.


Your plan is going to make your car look much worse for no gain.

Ok, thanks, but what do I do then to get Supertrol into that area so that once I have dealt with the external problem, the internal does not break through? ??? ??? ;)


From the back, after you've played about with the outside.


Don't expect any tarting up you do to last more than a few months.


Which is why it's a waste of time.
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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #33 on: 08 July 2019, 12:44:59 »

Both filler and paint need to be applied to a shiny, flat, dry, greasefree surface. You're not going to manage that pasting it over a hole that you've injected rustproofing gunge into.


Your plan is going to make your car look much worse for no gain.

Ok, thanks, but what do I do then to get Supertrol into that area so that once I have dealt with the external problem, the internal does not break through? ??? ??? ;)


From the back, after you've played about with the outside.


Don't expect any tarting up you do to last more than a few months.


Which is why it's a waste of time.

Thanks, but I am not prepared to do nothing,. which others have also warned against.  So your suggestion to go in from the back does make every sense. Thanks!

The last tarting up has lasted a year before the slight bubbling came up again :( :(

So, if I get another year............all well and good! :D :D :y
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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #34 on: 08 July 2019, 13:33:19 »

It's not difficult to remove the boot carpet, wheel arch carpets, side pieces / first aid cover etc - the passenger side easy.
That's the way I go in there, and how I would suggest doing it. Better than drilling more holes. On nice sunny day, the trim can be laid out without fear of it getting wet, you can then sit back after you've done it, smelling of Supertrol, but enjoy a well earned drink knowing that it's been a good days work, with the Supertrol doing what it's best at - penetrating spot welded seams.
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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #35 on: 08 July 2019, 13:52:37 »

It's not difficult to remove the boot carpet, wheel arch carpets, side pieces / first aid cover etc - the passenger side easy.
That's the way I go in there, and how I would suggest doing it. Better than drilling more holes. On nice sunny day, the trim can be laid out without fear of it getting wet, you can then sit back after you've done it, smelling of Supertrol, but enjoy a well earned drink knowing that it's been a good days work, with the Supertrol doing what it's best at - penetrating spot welded seams.

But I have looked around the whole of the boot area and I cannot see how any access can be made to the cavity between the rear quarter section panels down to the wheel arches.  Where are the access points please? ??? ???

I have removed the boot carpet, but I have no wheel arch ones, but neither have access points to the inner panel sections from there.  Indeed, all those panels are in as new condition.  It is only the inner wheel arch area I need to get to.

I just cannot see them :D ;)

Thanks  :y :y
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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #36 on: 08 July 2019, 14:03:11 »

Remove the backrest, then remove everything from the boot opening behind it. Then remove all the carpet you can see in the boot.

Cannot simplify it any more ;)
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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #37 on: 08 July 2019, 14:30:39 »

OK, but I really do not know what I am looking for as all is good there and there are no visible openings for getting to the wheel arches around the lip ;)

I will just have to look yet again! ::) ::) :D
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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #38 on: 08 July 2019, 15:15:20 »

The lip is only the outer panel. The inner seam is about an inch up from the lip on the flat surface. It is sealed by a mastic applied before the quarter panel is fitted and the excess smoothed to the finish that you can see behind the lip... Wheel off or phone camera and you'll see what I mean.

The area you are trying to access is only visible as a crevice once the carpets are removed.  :y
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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #39 on: 08 July 2019, 16:00:40 »

The lip is only the outer panel. The inner seam is about an inch up from the lip on the flat surface. It is sealed by a mastic applied before the quarter panel is fitted and the excess smoothed to the finish that you can see behind the lip... Wheel off or phone camera and you'll see what I mean.

The area you are trying to access is only visible as a crevice once the carpets are removed.  :y

Ah, thanks DG!! :y :y

Now I understand.  I just could not understand, with my car in the garage, how I could reach that area inside the cavity.  Now I do! 8) 8) 8)

Anything mechanical thing I understand, but when it comes to car bodies I don't.  I could not visualize how the outer and inner panel skins came together around the wheel arch and how I could spray Supertrol into that area, ::) ::) ::)

That saves drilling or even getting up underneath the wheel arches, although I will still be attending to the outer seam that goes all around the wheel arch externally. Then I will rub down, removing the outer 'bubbled' areas, treat the rust, fill with Isopon, rub down for a smooth finish, lay on the layers of anti-rust primer, and then apply the top coats and lacquer. T-cut after a few days to bring to a polish.  Much easier!!

Now I have a definite plan :D :D

Thanks DG and Jonneydog! :-* :-* :y
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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #40 on: 08 July 2019, 16:19:19 »

..............so, just another question to clarify, if I make a small opening through the mastic seal can I simply spay the rust prevention mist through them to eventually get enough all the way down to the inner wheel arch area - behind where it is bubbling? ???

 :y
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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #41 on: 08 July 2019, 17:08:37 »

..............so, just another question to clarify, if I make a small opening through the mastic seal can I simply spay the rust prevention mist through them to eventually get enough all the way down to the inner wheel arch area - behind where it is bubbling? ???

 :y
No. Mostly because the bubbling originates from the wheel arch lip not the inner panel ;)
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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #42 on: 08 July 2019, 17:33:16 »

..............so, just another question to clarify, if I make a small opening through the mastic seal can I simply spay the rust prevention mist through them to eventually get enough all the way down to the inner wheel arch area - behind where it is bubbling? ???

 :y
No. Mostly because the bubbling originates from the wheel arch lip not the inner panel ;)

Oh, now I'm confused. :o :o

So why is everyone saying about treating the inside of the panels if it does nothing to stop wheel arch rot / bubbling? :-\ :-\

That is my small area of problem after all ;)
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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #43 on: 08 July 2019, 17:57:20 »

Oh, now I'm confused. :o :o

So why is everyone saying about treating the inside of the panels if it does nothing to stop wheel arch rot / bubbling? :-\ :-\

That is my small area of problem after all ;)


Some of us are saying it's a complete waste of time......


There is no magic potion that will make a crusty welded flange better. Cutting and welding is the only option if you want to fix it. Or you could leave it until it's much worse and fix it then.
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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #44 on: 08 July 2019, 17:58:26 »

Oh, now I'm confused. :o :o

So why is everyone saying about treating the inside of the panels if it does nothing to stop wheel arch rot / bubbling? :-\ :-\

That is my small area of problem after all ;)


[i]Some [/i]of us are saying it's a complete waste of time......


There is no magic potion that will make a crusty welded flange better. Cutting and welding is the only option if you want to fix it. Or you could leave it until it's much worse and fix it then.


Very true ::) ::) :D ;)
Ok, then. Thanks :y
« Last Edit: 08 July 2019, 18:02:22 by Lizzie Zoom »
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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #45 on: 08 July 2019, 18:26:21 »

Just when I thought I had a plan!! :o :o :o

So, to recap I have bubbles showing around that flat area around the wheel arches before it goes to the rounded part of the quarter panel.

The rust on the surface is always coming from within - I have often been informed - so whatever you do on the surface, unless you treat the inner area I will be wasting my time.

But actually the rust is coming up from the lip that goes around the leading edge of the arch, which should be cut out for a permanent solution. The rust is not coming from within the skins of the panel.

Now which one is right please, as I have got mixed messages here.

Is there actually a correct way of doing any work on the bubbles, apart from cutting out the affected lip which I cannot do, and I am not prepared to spend 1,000 this year to get the work done professionally by a specialist bodywork guy?

And no, this Omega is too good to scrap or walk away from! :D :D

But I certainly do have a thumping headache now!! ::) ::)

 :-\ :-\ :-\ ::) ::) ::) ;)

« Last Edit: 08 July 2019, 18:28:50 by Lizzie Zoom »
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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #46 on: 08 July 2019, 19:02:29 »


But actually the rust is coming up from the lip that goes around the leading edge of the arch, which should be cut out for a permanent solution. The rust is not coming from within the skins of the panel.


Is there actually a correct way of doing any work on the bubbles, apart from cutting out the affected lip which I cannot do, and I am not prepared to spend 1,000 this year to get the work done professionally by a specialist bodywork guy?



First - paint doesn't adhere well to edges. So grot gets under the edge of the flange, and creeps up. It doesn't just do that on one side of the panel! It's much more likely to creep between the welded together panels and stay there. If you have rust bubbling through the paint, it is already much worse than you can see. Rust is ALWAYS worse than you can see, it's just a matter of how bad.


Second - the cutting and welding is the cheap part of the job, it's finishing the repair and painting so that it doesn't show that's expensive. If it shows, it looks shit and you'll wish you had never bothered.


This arch isn't rotten(it's accident damage), although the part under the bumper was and needed welding.





Note how far up the panel the repair is sanded - I painted the whole quarter to get a decent finish. A welded repair would have taken more. I could have
done it to the bodyline, but that would have just been different work and made for a metre long paint blend, rather than a tiny one on the roof pillar.
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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #47 on: 08 July 2019, 19:18:07 »

Differing opinions

my rust treatment kept my carlton arches fine , when I sold it last year they where fine , along with never being welded anywhere on the car (other than when it was built obviously)
Daily driver , not garaged , had a hard life carrying all my stuff and i towed too, mileage was about 160k IIRC

so 10 years older and double the mileage of the omega


if it is pointless  treating, painting and under-sealing then what do people put on the new steel  :-\ or is it magic metal  ;D
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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #48 on: 08 July 2019, 20:33:15 »

Differing opinions

my rust treatment kept my carlton arches fine , when I sold it last year they where fine , along with never being welded anywhere on the car (other than when it was built obviously)
Daily driver , not garaged , had a hard life carrying all my stuff and i towed too, mileage was about 160k IIRC

so 10 years older and double the mileage of the omega


if it is pointless  treating, painting and under-sealing then what do people put on the new steel  :-\ or is it magic metal  ;D

Agreed :y

I think I will just have to do what I think is right for me. ;)
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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #49 on: 08 July 2019, 20:37:20 »


But actually the rust is coming up from the lip that goes around the leading edge of the arch, which should be cut out for a permanent solution. The rust is not coming from within the skins of the panel.


Is there actually a correct way of doing any work on the bubbles, apart from cutting out the affected lip which I cannot do, and I am not prepared to spend 1,000 this year to get the work done professionally by a specialist bodywork guy?



First - paint doesn't adhere well to edges. So grot gets under the edge of the flange, and creeps up. It doesn't just do that on one side of the panel! It's much more likely to creep between the welded together panels and stay there. If you have rust bubbling through the paint, it is already much worse than you can see. Rust is ALWAYS worse than you can see, it's just a matter of how bad.


Second - the cutting and welding is the cheap part of the job, it's finishing the repair and painting so that it doesn't show that's expensive. If it shows, it looks shit and you'll wish you had never bothered.


This arch isn't rotten(it's accident damage), although the part under the bumper was and needed welding.





Note how far up the panel the repair is sanded - I painted the whole quarter to get a decent finish. A welded repair would have taken more. I could have
done it to the bodyline, but that would have just been different work and made for a metre long paint blend, rather than a tiny one on the roof pillar.

Sorry Nick, but that example in your picture is far worse than mine. Also my rust is just a few bubbles alone the edge of the arch, with your example looking far worse along that area, although you say that is accident damage.

I do take your points on board though, thanks, but now I must do what I have to do ;) :y
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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #50 on: 08 July 2019, 20:55:00 »

.....anyway thanks to all who have given advice and guidance, which is very much appreciated 8) 8) :y

But, this is my challenge and now I must make the decisions right for me and my Omega. That is my responsibility, God help me!! :o :o :o ;D ;)
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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #51 on: 08 July 2019, 22:16:56 »


if it is pointless  treating, painting and under-sealing then what do people put on the new steel  :-\ or is it magic metal  ;D

Agreed :y

I think I will just have to do what I think is right for me. ;)


It's pointless applying treatments after the rust has started. Paint on a car is there to preserve the metal. That it looks pretty is a secondary consideration.


The specks you see along the lower edge of the arch in my picture are rust. I didn't know they were there until I ground off the paint. It's not unusual to find what looks like worm trails of rust under perfectly good paint. If rust is bubbling under the paint, imagine how much worse the metal is.
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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #52 on: 09 July 2019, 01:24:50 »

Seconded...

The specks on Nick's flange are the precursor to your rust bubbles.

Also you forget that each sheet of metal has two sides ::)

Those flange specs are on the outside panel...  ;)

Either replace the arch/quarter or wait until you have to (and then need to do the inner wing as well)  ;)
« Last Edit: 09 July 2019, 01:28:02 by Doctor Gollum »
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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #53 on: 09 July 2019, 09:16:30 »

Thanks Nick and DG :y :y
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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #54 on: 09 July 2019, 10:31:12 »


if it is pointless  treating, painting and under-sealing then what do people put on the new steel  :-\ or is it magic metal  ;D

Agreed :y

I think I will just have to do what I think is right for me. ;)


It's pointless applying treatments after the rust has started. Paint on a car is there to preserve the metal. That it looks pretty is a secondary consideration.


The specks you see along the lower edge of the arch in my picture are rust. I didn't know they were there until I ground off the paint. It's not unusual to find what looks like worm trails of rust under perfectly good paint. If rust is bubbling under the paint, imagine how much worse the metal is.

Thanks Nick. :y 

So once you had rubbed the paint off, which I at the very least must do with mine, what did you do after that please? :-\ :-\
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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #55 on: 09 July 2019, 11:07:16 »

Those black speckles in the photo on the lower edge if the wheelarch are corrosion in the metal. I have seen body places rub down surface rust (the actual brown rust that we all know as corrosion) but then paint over the remaining black speckles as the surface is smooth after sanding. The owner gets his car back all nice and shiny, only to find within a few weeks bubbles appear again. These black speckles in the metal have caused this. They need to be ground out if just surface rust, cut out if from underneath or at the very least treated, or any paint applied, no matter how good, will bubble in a short space of time. The black speckles can be very very miniscule, but need to be fully removed by whichever method is appropriate before painting.
Being honest Lizzie, from your questions, I would leave it as if is for the time being or you will end up with a wheelarch looking far worse than it already is, and whenever you are able, get the job done professionally, enduring that a proper job is done, rather than cosmetic.
Unless you have a good deal of experience in bodywork, whether that be DIY or professionally, especially with metallics which are two  coat systems (base / colour coat and then laquer, and that's after primers etc)  the result will not be what you expect, and you will regret attempting it! It is an art getting a perfect unblemished finish that comes with plenty of practise and experience.
When you are out and about, have a look at older cars say in a supermarket car park - there are certain to be some where the owner has attempted a repair, and see what you think of the result.
Alternatively if you can get your hands on an old door panel for example, put a couple of dents in it, and practise repairing and painting that first before your own car! Then make your decision about your abilities before starting your own!
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #56 on: 09 July 2019, 11:33:30 »

Those black speckles in the photo on the lower edge if the wheelarch are corrosion in the metal. I have seen body places rub down surface rust (the actual brown rust that we all know as corrosion) but then paint over the remaining black speckles as the surface is smooth after sanding. The owner gets his car back all nice and shiny, only to find within a few weeks bubbles appear again. These black speckles in the metal have caused this. They need to be ground out if just surface rust, cut out if from underneath or at the very least treated, or any paint applied, no matter how good, will bubble in a short space of time. The black speckles can be very very miniscule, but need to be fully removed by whichever method is appropriate before painting.
Being honest Lizzie, from your questions, I would leave it as if is for the time being or you will end up with a wheelarch looking far worse than it already is, and whenever you are able, get the job done professionally, enduring that a proper job is done, rather than cosmetic.
Unless you have a good deal of experience in bodywork,
whether that be DIY or professionally, especially with metallics which are two  coat systems (base / colour coat and then laquer, and that's after primers etc)  the result will not be what you expect, and you will regret attempting it! It is an art getting a perfect unblemished finish that comes with plenty of practise and experience.
When you are out and about, have a look at older cars say in a supermarket car park - there are certain to be some where the owner has attempted a repair, and see what you think of the result.
Alternatively if you can get your hands on an old door panel for example, put a couple of dents in it, and practise repairing and painting that first before your own car! Then make your decision about your abilities before starting your own!

Thanks! :y

I am fast realising it is best for me to do very little, as, NO, I am no good at body work repairs beyond a very basic standard ametaur level. My once brother-in-law, who I saw build his car body shop business from a back street in Bromley to running a company with contracts to rebuild, respray and generally work on the bodywork of top of the range cars, such as Bentleys and Rolls Royces, with contracts with major dealerships (Jack Barclay) and insurance companies, he tried to teach me the basics of his profession, which incidentally my husband could certainly never do, but I just could never get to those levels even!! ::) ::) ::)

So, I do what I can!! :D ;)
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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #57 on: 09 July 2019, 13:29:16 »


Thanks Nick. :y 

So once you had rubbed the paint off, which I at the very least must do with mine, what did you do after that please? :-\ :-\


By doing exactly what I've repeatedly written. But I had caught it at the start of the process, so a wire brush on my grinder removed the rust, and revealed shiny but slightly pitted metal. Which I filled, primed and painted as part of the car park damage that had made me start the job.


The rust had started because the paint on the flange inside the arc was poor, and moisture crept up underneath. Once I'd finished the paint I made sure the edges were well sealed with sealant and underseal.


The time to apply the rust treatments to your car was abiut 15years ago.
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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #58 on: 09 July 2019, 15:55:07 »


Thanks Nick. :y 

So once you had rubbed the paint off, which I at the very least must do with mine, what did you do after that please? :-\ :-\


By doing exactly what I've repeatedly written. But I had caught it at the start of the process, so a wire brush on my grinder removed the rust, and revealed shiny but slightly pitted metal. Which I filled, primed and painted as part of the car park damage that had made me start the job.


The rust had started because the paint on the flange inside the arc was poor, and moisture crept up underneath. Once I'd finished the paint I made sure the edges were well sealed with sealant and underseal.


The time to apply the rust treatments to your car was abiut 15years ago.

How very true!! :y :y 

We can only blame the manufacturers for that one.  There again that was obviously a business decision of the many as it kept a cost factor to almost non existent, their prices competitive and gave built in obsolescence to ensure demand for new cars continued apace.  They, no doubt, never thought our Omega's would still be on the road almost two decades later! ::) ;D ;D ;)
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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #59 on: 09 July 2019, 16:31:30 »


We can only blame the manufacturers for that one.  There again that was obviously a business decision of the many as it kept a cost factor to almost non existent, their prices competitive and gave built in obsolescence to ensure demand for new cars continued apace.  They, no doubt, never thought our Omega's would still be on the road almost two decades later! ::) ;D ;D ;)


did you have a liquid lunch ??? ?


Cars are made of steel sheet welded together. Most of the resulting structue gets coated when it's dipped. Then the bits that can be reached are painted. The car spends its life outside in the weather with very little attention.


Put all that together, and it's not going to last forever. Look around and count just how few cars make it past 25 years.


Omegas are better than most cars of their contemporaries - the body is from the seventies, so that's Granadas, 5 series, CXs, Renault 30, MB200 etc which are all notorious rotboxes.
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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #60 on: 09 July 2019, 17:00:38 »


We can only blame the manufacturers for that one.  There again that was obviously a business decision of the many as it kept a cost factor to almost non existent, their prices competitive and gave built in obsolescence to ensure demand for new cars continued apace.  They, no doubt, never thought our Omega's would still be on the road almost two decades later! ::) ;D ;D ;)


did you have a liquid lunch ??? ?


Cars are made of steel sheet welded together. Most of the resulting structue gets coated when it's dipped. Then the bits that can be reached are painted. The car spends its life outside in the weather with very little attention.


Put all that together, and it's not going to last forever. Look around and count just how few cars make it past 25 years.


Omegas are better than most cars of their contemporaries - the body is from the seventies, so that's Granadas, 5 series, CXs, Renault 30, MB200 etc which are all notorious rotboxes.

No! ::) ::) :D

What I mean is that if adequate anti-rust treatment, rust guard, or whatever it is called, had been applied when new, the rot would never be so great.

As for the cars back in the 1960's and 70's no anti- rust treatment was applied, and thus motorists who cared for their new vehicles had the chassis coated in an anti-rust treatment / Guard, who's name escapes me.  The majority of cars never had this, so of course my old A40 rust bucket, let alone cars like the Viva's, and many more started to have very large rust holes appearing all over them.

Now, due to consumer pressure, cars started to be built with some form of treatment and the rust problem on not so old cars improved greatly.  If the manufactures cared about it, I am sure it is not beyond the wit of man to fully coat the metal with modern anti-rust treatments so that it did not rot even after 20 years.  Yes, of course metal gets rusty.  But man has answers to that but it is still not commercially viable to  do all they can to prevent rust.  Just like the ever lasting light bulb, no manufacturer is going to produce it if they want future sales! ;)
« Last Edit: 09 July 2019, 17:02:29 by Lizzie Zoom »
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #61 on: 09 July 2019, 17:30:46 »

Car longevity is predetermined to six years/100k miles. Even now. Manufacturers sell what they choose not what we demand. If old cars lasted forever, no one would buy new...
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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #62 on: 09 July 2019, 17:44:52 »

Anti-rust treatments are not one off processes. They have to be maintained and reapplied. That's best started when the car is new. But how many people buy a car new and keep it for the next twenty years? Would five years be a good guess for that? So they're not going to spend the money so the car's 9th owner can look at it and marvel how well it has lasted.


I've done repairs on 40 year old cars that were waxoyled from new, and it's the seams, joins and edges that fail just like normal. Once I cut into the sections, waxoyl(or whatever was used) was still visible in the middle of panels. This was on terrible rotboxes like my sister's Morris 1300 and others.
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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #63 on: 09 July 2019, 18:16:19 »

Car longevity is predetermined to six years/100k miles. Even now. Manufacturers sell what they choose not what we demand. If old cars lasted forever, no one would buy new...

And that is what I said..... ::) ::) ;D ;)
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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #64 on: 09 July 2019, 21:46:54 »

Nope, you were musing that it's a shame that Vauxhall didn't build the Omega properly  ::)
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