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Author Topic: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot  (Read 824 times)

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TheBoy

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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #15 on: 07 July 2019, 15:04:44 »

Trying to keep a daily driver rust free is arguably a waste of time  :-\
Unless its aluminium, which doesn't technically "rust" :P
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #16 on: 07 July 2019, 16:04:20 »

Trying to keep a daily driver rust free is arguably a waste of time  :-\
Unless its aluminium, which doesn't technically "rust" :P
Potayto potarto ::) it does oxidise every time you scratch it...  :P
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Nick W

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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #17 on: 07 July 2019, 20:21:44 »

Personally Id say its futile, sorry Lizzie.


complete waste of time, money and expensive materials.
Either havethe rot(all of it) cut out and new metal welded in, or ignore it until it's really bad.
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #18 on: 07 July 2019, 20:59:17 »

Personally Id say its futile, sorry Lizzie.


complete waste of time, money and expensive materials.
Either havethe rot(all of it) cut out and new metal welded in, or ignore it until it's really bad.

Yes, I know you, and others, are correct, but as it is probably my last car, definetly last Omega, that overall is in great condition for it's age I(constantly classed as that by those that do the MOT or work on it) and I have ensured she has had the best attention I can afford, for the sack of 60 of materials and time I have plenty of, I must keep trying to keep it going. The relatively small amount of bubbling I have to attend to means I can cosmetically maintain her to a fair standard, or at least one I can live with for say the next 5 years, and that is judged on my experience with a Senator that had far worse rot than this 'slight' bubbling.

Actually having the serious work done that I have had quoted is the big question for me. Is it worth spending over 1,000 on a car that may last another 5 years, when in any case without that work I can still make her last that length of time?

Away from the emotional assessment, and using a business brain, spending 1,000 capital on a car worth, even to me, no more than 4,000 cannot be justified, as it is no where near a good return on capital expenditure. But, the occasional attention I can give it, at low expense, to help it last 5 years, is acceptable. That is considered normal depreciation down to write off.

If it lasts over 5 years, and I am still requiring the Omega, that will be simply be a bonus. ;)
« Last Edit: 07 July 2019, 21:08:34 by Lizzie Zoom »
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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #19 on: 07 July 2019, 21:25:13 »

1. It's a car. It will depreciate regardless of what you spend on it.

2. Capital expenditure is irrelevant unless it is a genuine business asset.

3. See 1, but keeping it nice is satisfying as long as you can afford to  :y

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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #20 on: 07 July 2019, 21:58:23 »

1. It's a car. It will depreciate regardless of what you spend on it.

2. Capital expenditure is irrelevant unless it is a genuine business asset.

3. See 1, but keeping it nice is satisfying as long as you can afford to  :y

That is right, but I am assessing it as tool to help me get around and do my (private) business, and as with any business asset that is an aid to your business, to give you either profit or simple benefit to trading. It will be written down as either a straight  depreciation over 5 years, in some cases just 3 years, or a staggard depreciation over those time scales, dependant on the nature of the asset. Bricks and mortar or land assets are different, usually appreciating, but will have a set 'book value'. In other words any amount I put into the car beyond standard maintenance, such as new sections of wings, has to be justified (usually by completing a Capex in my professional life to reflect gains to qualify the cost). This is how I work and calculate what I do with my money outside of standard living costs. My training means I have to do it! ::) :D :D

The car, as with any other I have ever owned, or joint owned, outside of 25 years of enjoying brand new company cars, will be written off financially, so yes it will be worth zero when I get rid, with any sale value considered a bonus. In the meantime this Omega, to me, is worth every penny of 4,000 as a like for like car would cost at least as much as that. Another private business justification for expenditure. But, no, if we all worked our lives out logically most of our cars could not be justified; they are fantastic losers of our money, but we want them of the standard we expect, not what any small smart car could (not)'offer us! ::) ::)

Being of older years now there is no guarantee I will live for x number of years more, or be able medically to drive any more. So value is rather subjective; anything I spend on the old girl is always with that in mind.

I gave costings to date for this Omega in another thread, Omega Ownership Costs, and they balance out in a perfectly acceptable way when compared to alternative car ownership senarios for me. I enjoy what I have, and currently run with it. If the situation changes then I will make decisions accordingly.

I believe most of us do that anyway with our motor vehicles, but the aging Omega is something else!! ;D ;D :y
« Last Edit: 07 July 2019, 22:00:33 by Lizzie Zoom »
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johnnydog

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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #21 on: 08 July 2019, 01:01:31 »

If you decided not to repair the Omega, and buy a new car, compare it with buying a new Eurobox, at say 250 per month, then you will have spent 3000 in a year (less what you get for the Omega).
You will have that new car smell (for a short time anyway), but have to perhaps put up with a 1.5 litre engine, and whilst it should be 100% reliable, the satisfaction you get driving your 3.2 Omega will probably not be there. Your 1000 input into your Omega in my book makes sense as you obviously love the car and probably wouldn't have same pride of ownership with anything else.
If you feel it warrants the wheelarch repairs Lizzie, go for it!
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #22 on: 08 July 2019, 01:36:15 »

As much as I loved my Omegas, they will never be the car that I desire as either a project or a long term ownership prospect.

As a daily driver, the realistic aim is to keep it serviceable first and nice second. In that order. The point at which you restore or dispose of it is when it no longer meets the first point without continuous expenditure. At this point daily duties will be passed to another vehicle.

Keeping it nice is very much about having the spare money to do so, but the more you use the car the more this will cost and consequently it becomes a very subjective point

Whether you then completely restore it once retired from daily duties or not depends on money, motivation and inclination. Without out any one of these it simply won't happen.
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dave the builder

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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #23 on: 08 July 2019, 07:15:12 »

My take on Lizzie's arch situation
do rust treatment we discussed, top up said treatment each year, if it warrants it then buy some filler and a can of touch up paint and DIY the arch ,if it has sharp edges( it will fail MOT ) or is unsightly .
Save the 1000 until it is needed to get the car past MOT
 say it needs a couple of plates welding on in 3 years , the money to do so is "resting in the account"  ;D
no point in Having 1000 wheel arches and no MOT
but spending a little now on slowing down rust ,has to be a good thing  :)
though I did tell Lizzie a year ago when she saved money having Serek do her engine and wishbones to buy supertrol   ::)  :-X  ;D
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #24 on: 08 July 2019, 09:05:54 »

Thanks for all your invaluable input. It really is helping me to reach a decision  :-* :-* :y

The thing is you are ALL correct in what you say, with DG, Nick, James most recently pointing out the car will self destruct, and our Omega's are now not worth putting large amounts of money into, and whatever I do it will never be enough. So these guys say spending 1,000 to treat what is a very small amount of current rust, but which would greatly limit it's spread, although it and other parts of the car will continue to,suffer from rot, is a waste of money due to the car being 16 years of age. They are so right! That to me is so logical 8) 8)

Then Dave, Jonnydog and others previously are also right in reinforcing my love of this car, it's personal value to me - forget the ,s,d - the fact it is still going strong (touch wood), has had Serek do some major mechanical work on her, and i have kept it going in my way, which I can do on this car (maybe not another one);  in short I love it, it fully meets my needs of the next few years and I must keep her going.  It is though illogical to throw more money at a 16 year old Omega that is showing just small signs of bodywork deterioration, which WILL in spite of all my efforts continue, but that can be controlled enough to slow the destruction of this beloved car down.

So, decisions, decisions. Time for logic, practicality, and realism.

I cannot afford the 1,000 for some time,,and now I am deciding NOT to have that work done.  I will now do the small amount of work, costing little, treat the areas discussed with Supertrol and the Bodywork Wax product I have ordered to keep her going for as long as I can, but accepting NOTHING, as with human life expectancy, is guaranteed. I will keep maintaining her well mechanically so to try and ensure she keeps going, is legally compliant, safe and can perform at the standard I want. But, for me the car is not everything in life, far from it, so I will cut my cloth accordingly.

If everything  falls apart before 3 years, then, even then, I will consider this car gave me the return on expenditure to justify it.

Thanks again all for your wonderful input and being realistic :-* :-* 8) :y







« Last Edit: 08 July 2019, 09:09:10 by Lizzie Zoom »
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Tick Tock

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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #25 on: 08 July 2019, 09:50:01 »

I think you should be applauded Lizzie for wanting to get down and make things last a bit longer on a car you're obviously in love with. It's also interesting to see the various comments from members on here with so many different views on keeping Omegas on the road. For your 100 outlay and a bit of proper application in the right places, there's no reason why the car shouldn't deteriorate any further in the next 5 years at least.

You may have a few blisters on the wheel arches at the moment, but if you treat the areas inside well, all you will need to do is occasionally polish the bodywork around the affected areas to make it look pretty, as the root cause of the rot will be pickled in treatments that will slow down its advance for the time being.

There's no getting away from the fact that once rust has started, you will never kill it unless you cut out and replace with good, as has been said, new bits will already have started oxidising from the start. Providing there's no holes at the moment, you must get to all the areas inside the wheel arch, and this will involve removing bits of trim (and don't forget how much penetration and protection you can get by removing a screw on the rear door latch). Make sure that any affected area has been soaked (penetrating oil is good for starters), then apply your potions afterwards, the capillary action drawing fluids into every conceivable pocket (especially down towards the sills where the backdoor has a habit of retaining moisture). After a couple of days apply another squirt of your favoured protector for good measure.

For another 5 years with no worries of the car looking like a skip, I think 100 and a few days in your case is well spent (that excludes all the other areas of the car that will need attention next summer, and the summer after........ ) .  :y

 
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #26 on: 08 July 2019, 10:00:54 »

I think you should be applauded Lizzie for wanting to get down and make things last a bit longer on a car you're obviously in love with. It's also interesting to see the various comments from members on here with so many different views on keeping Omegas on the road. For your 100 outlay and a bit of proper application in the right places, there's no reason why the car shouldn't deteriorate any further in the next 5 years at least.

You may have a few blisters on the wheel arches at the moment, but if you treat the areas inside well, all you will need to do is occasionally polish the bodywork around the affected areas to make it look pretty, as the root cause of the rot will be pickled in treatments that will slow down its advance for the time being.

There's no getting away from the fact that once rust has started, you will never kill it unless you cut out and replace with good, as has been said, new bits will already have started oxidising from the start. Providing there's no holes at the moment, you must get to all the areas inside the wheel arch, and this will involve removing bits of trim (and don't forget how much penetration and protection you can get by removing a screw on the rear door latch). Make sure that any affected area has been soaked (penetrating oil is good for starters), then apply your potions afterwards, the capillary action drawing fluids into every conceivable pocket (especially down towards the sills where the backdoor has a habit of retaining moisture). After a couple of days apply another squirt of your favoured protector for good measure.

For another 5 years with no worries of the car looking like a skip, I think 100 and a few days in your case is well spent (that excludes all the other areas of the car that will need attention next summer, and the summer after........ ) .  :y

 

Thanks Tick Tock, yes that is how I see it 8) :y :y
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #27 on: 08 July 2019, 11:13:16 »

Is there a drawing of a cross section of the rear wheel arch panel showing in particular the cavity at the top of the arch available anywhere please?

I want to understand where I can safely drill very small holes into the rim of the arch to get between the two skins and strategically direct the Supertrol spray through the straw for best effect. ;)

My plan is that the fine spray, from one 500ml can of Supertrol per arch will fall down, perambulate, the inside of the panels and reach parts that normally are not reachable from the outside. ;)
« Last Edit: 08 July 2019, 11:21:35 by Lizzie Zoom »
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Nick W

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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #28 on: 08 July 2019, 11:19:52 »

Is there a drawing of a cross section of the rear wheel arch panel showing in particular the cavity at the top of the arch available anywhere please?

I want to understand where I can safely drill very small holes into the rim of the arch to get between the two skins and strategically direct the Supertrol spray through the straw for best effect. ;)


If you're determined to do that, then drill up from the inner arch as close to the flange as you dare. Be very careful not to drill through the outer panel as well. How do you intend to stop the hole(s) making a worse rust-trap than the Vauxhall designed one you have already?
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Infamous Rear Wheel Arch Rot
« Reply #29 on: 08 July 2019, 11:25:54 »

Is there a drawing of a cross section of the rear wheel arch panel showing in particular the cavity at the top of the arch available anywhere please?

I want to understand where I can safely drill very small holes into the rim of the arch to get between the two skins and strategically direct the Supertrol spray through the straw for best effect. ;)


If you're determined to do that, then drill up from the inner arch as close to the flange as you dare. Be very careful not to drill through the outer panel as well. How do you intend to stop the hole(s) making a worse rust-trap than the Vauxhall designed one you have already?

I will drill into the areas of 'bubble', so an area already not perfect, then after treating with Supertrol, fill these holes with Isopone, and fully sand down, anti-rust prime, and paint.  I cannot see another way that I can do it anyway, and it will buy me the years I need.  Better than doing nothing or spending 1,000 as already discussed :D :D ;)
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