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Author Topic: HS 2 to be "reviewed "  (Read 2489 times)

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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: HS 2 to be "reviewed "
« Reply #105 on: 03 September 2019, 18:16:21 »

Most people I have to stand with on the Chiltern Slug can afford their posh cars that they drive to the station with. I suspect most of them earn at least double what I do.  They can pay for their own oppsing tickets.

The system is inefficient, ineffective, expensive, and as I've said countless times before, run purely for those working on it.  Its not used by the disabled, poor (more expensive than unsubsidised options) or licky brigade.  Its used by people who want to work in London (for big bucks, and 60% subsidised travel), but rightly don't want to live in the shithole.


So back to my original point, are you going to pay me 60% of my travel costs please?  Thought not.

And back to my original  point, why should I or anyone else do so? ::) ::) ::);D ;D ;)
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TheBoy

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Re: HS 2 to be "reviewed "
« Reply #106 on: 03 September 2019, 18:22:54 »

And back to my original  point, why should I or anyone else do so? ::) ::) ::);D ;D ;)
And why should I do so for somebody who is a damn sight richer than I'll ever be?
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Nick W

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Re: HS 2 to be "reviewed "
« Reply #107 on: 03 September 2019, 18:23:31 »

Most people I have to stand with on the Chiltern Slug can afford their posh cars that they drive to the station with. I suspect most of them earn at least double what I do.  They can pay for their own oppsing tickets.

The system is inefficient, ineffective, expensive, and as I've said countless times before, run purely for those working on it.  Its not used by the disabled, poor (more expensive than unsubsidised options) or licky brigade.  Its used by people who want to work in London (for big bucks, and 60% subsidised travel), but rightly don't want to live in the shithole.


So back to my original point, are you going to pay me 60% of my travel costs please?  Thought not.

And back to my original  point, why should I or anyone else do so? ::) ::) ::) ;D ;D ;)


Because roads are heavily subsidised. If we had to pay the real cost per mile every time we used them, car use would rapidly diminish and the price of a rail ticket would look a lot more reasonable. Which will have to happen eventually.
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TheBoy

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Re: HS 2 to be "reviewed "
« Reply #108 on: 03 September 2019, 18:30:04 »

Because roads are heavily subsidised. If we had to pay the real cost per mile every time we used them, car use would rapidly diminish and the price of a rail ticket would look a lot more reasonable. Which will have to happen eventually.
Adding all the taxes on motorists, I doubt roads are subsidised for car users, only for the lycra brigade and toffs on horses.
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I don't tolerate bickering, and I'm always grumpy.
And Lizzie Zoom says I'm a heartless bastid...and she's absolutely correct!

TheBoy

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Re: HS 2 to be "reviewed "
« Reply #109 on: 03 September 2019, 18:32:42 »

Most people I have to stand with on the Chiltern Slug can afford their posh cars that they drive to the station with. I suspect most of them earn at least double what I do.  They can pay for their own oppsing tickets.

The system is inefficient, ineffective, expensive, and as I've said countless times before, run purely for those working on it.  Its not used by the disabled, poor (more expensive than unsubsidised options) or licky brigade.  Its used by people who want to work in London (for big bucks, and 60% subsidised travel), but rightly don't want to live in the shithole.


So back to my original point, are you going to pay me 60% of my travel costs please?  Thought not.

And back to my original  point, why should I or anyone else do so? ::) ::) ::) ;D ;D ;)


Because roads are heavily subsidised. If we had to pay the real cost per mile every time we used them, car use would rapidly diminish and the price of a rail ticket would look a lot more reasonable. Which will have to happen eventually.
But I'm all for it. Reduce road duty to nothing. Remove tax on insurance and breakdown. Remove fuel duty. And charge 20p per mile.

That'll keep the bone idle mummies on school runs out of my way. And I'll still be quids in.
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I don't tolerate bickering, and I'm always grumpy.
And Lizzie Zoom says I'm a heartless bastid...and she's absolutely correct!

Lizzie Zoom

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Re: HS 2 to be "reviewed "
« Reply #110 on: 03 September 2019, 18:57:40 »

Most people I have to stand with on the Chiltern Slug can afford their posh cars that they drive to the station with. I suspect most of them earn at least double what I do.  They can pay for their own oppsing tickets.

The system is inefficient, ineffective, expensive, and as I've said countless times before, run purely for those working on it.  Its not used by the disabled, poor (more expensive than unsubsidised options) or licky brigade.  Its used by people who want to work in London (for big bucks, and 60% subsidised travel), but rightly don't want to live in the shithole.


So back to my original point, are you going to pay me 60% of my travel costs please?  Thought not.

And back to my original  point, why should I or anyone else do so? ::) ::) ::) ;D ;D ;)


Because roads are heavily subsidised. If we had to pay the real cost per mile every time we used them, car use would rapidly diminish and the price of a rail ticket would look a lot more reasonable. Which will have to happen eventually.

Well done Nick! :y :y :y

Somebody else who identifies the reality, and how things will and must change 8) 8) :y
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Nick W

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Re: HS 2 to be "reviewed "
« Reply #111 on: 03 September 2019, 23:22:27 »

Well done Nick! :y :y :y

Somebody else who identifies the reality, and how things will and must change 8) 8) :y


Oh it's much worse than that.


Changes in transport use will be a side effect of a disaster that most of us won't want to live through. As long as it's not in the next twenty years, I don't care.
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Migv6 le Frog Fan

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Re: HS 2 to be "reviewed "
« Reply #112 on: 03 September 2019, 23:27:54 »

Getting back to HS2. The company  responsible for building it announced today that it might go seven years and another 25 billion over budget. Its going to be the biggest white elephant in history by the look if it.
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: HS 2 to be "reviewed "
« Reply #113 on: 06 September 2019, 18:34:51 »

Well done Nick! :y :y :y

Somebody else who identifies the reality, and how things will and must change 8) 8) :y


Oh it's much worse than that.


Changes in transport use will be a side effect of a disaster that most of us won't want to live through. As long as it's not in the next twenty years, I don't care.

+1, yep getting into my 80's will be quite enough for me :D :D :y :y
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Rods2

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Re: HS 2 to be "reviewed "
« Reply #114 on: 09 September 2019, 19:54:26 »

If HS2 was scrapped tomorrow (I wish) about 6bn has already been wasted spent out of the 56bn original cost, leaving about 50bn that could be spent on other much more beneficial, much more cost effective alternatives, but what?

Fortunately, the TPA organised "The Great British Transport Competition" which resulted in 28 projects being selected & are in their report below. Have a read & I would be interested in your comments. Many of the rail projects include reintroducing passenger services back on to freight only lines and the revival of disused or partially disused railway lines which reduce further the justification for HS2 which is now unlikely to be completed until the 2030s at a cost (allowing for delays & further price increases) of 90-100+bn.

https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/taxpayersalliance/pages/16562/attachments/original/1558213640/GBTC_REPORT_FINAL_REVIEWED_18MAY2019.pdf?1558213640
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: HS 2 to be "reviewed "
« Reply #115 on: 09 September 2019, 20:47:07 »

If HS2 was scrapped tomorrow (I wish) about 6bn has already been wasted spent out of the 56bn original cost, leaving about 50bn that could be spent on other much more beneficial, much more cost effective alternatives, but what?

Fortunately, the TPA organised "The Great British Transport Competition" which resulted in 28 projects being selected & are in their report below. Have a read & I would be interested in your comments. Many of the rail projects include reintroducing passenger services back on to freight only lines and the revival of disused or partially disused railway lines which reduce further the justification for HS2 which is now unlikely to be completed until the 2030s at a cost (allowing for delays & further price increases) of 90-100+bn.

https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/taxpayersalliance/pages/16562/attachments/original/1558213640/GBTC_REPORT_FINAL_REVIEWED_18MAY2019.pdf?1558213640

Now that is something I have been saying since the 1980's, on the back of the fine efforts made by the Railway Preservation sector. So many lines shut by Beeching, although unprofitable then, could now be so beneficial as whole communities have grown up along those old track beds. Some, however, have no use now and should not be re-opened, but many others should be for good commercial, social, and environmental reasons in the 21st century.

The list of these is a long one, which I am not going to foolishly quote as without facts about the viability and practicality of each it is a pointless exercise. Local lines generally to ease congestion across the areas now growing in population is an obvious factor, especially here in the South.  But, the old main lines like the Sommerset & Dorset from Bournemouth up to Bath, along with the old Great Central main line from London, via Rugby, then to Nottingham and Sheffield, onto Manchester, come to mind. In the case of the latter, if HS2 etc does not go ahead you have the opportunity to open up the centre of the country once more to a fast line with the much needed additional capacity that is needed from London to Nottingham onto Sheffield, with Manchester at the top.

Some large sections of that lines track bed and general infrastructure still exists, with two separate parts occupied by Steam Railway Preservation groups running trains. These lines should be used to increase freight traffic away from the roads, as well as providing passenger movement between towns and cities, with surrounding communities, much enlarged since the 1960's.

But all this would, yet again, open up challenges by NIMBY groups, with the challenges immense as many parts of the old infrastructure have gone,with buildings now occupying the sites, so costs would be very large indeed.  Then you have the objections from TB and the anti-rail lobby, so all this may be no more of a runner than HS2!! ::) ::) :D ;)

Pity, a great pity! :'( :'(

« Last Edit: 09 September 2019, 20:50:41 by Lizzie Zoom »
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: HS 2 to be "reviewed "
« Reply #116 on: 09 September 2019, 21:07:13 »

Oh, and for our Scottish members I would add that extending the fairly recently re-opened Waverly Line from Edinburgh to Tweedback should now go on to be returned to the full length running to Carlisle, as apparently there is a good case for that. ;)
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TheBoy

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Re: HS 2 to be "reviewed "
« Reply #117 on: 10 September 2019, 16:29:18 »

objections from TB and the anti-rail lobby
Not particularly anti rail, its just its an unviable, expensive and inefficient system.

If it could run without subsidies, ie those who use it pay for it, lets do it. But it can't, and it won't
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I don't tolerate bickering, and I'm always grumpy.
And Lizzie Zoom says I'm a heartless bastid...and she's absolutely correct!

Rods2

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Re: HS 2 to be "reviewed "
« Reply #118 on: 10 September 2019, 16:51:14 »

The 28 schemes in the report above also include several major road improvements schemes, including a new lower Thames tunnel to ease M25 congestion as well as rail ones, so this must be a first for TB to be against that. :-[ :P
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: HS 2 to be "reviewed "
« Reply #119 on: 10 September 2019, 18:16:36 »

objections from TB and the anti-rail lobby
Not particularly anti rail, its just its an unviable, expensive and inefficient system.

If it could run without subsidies, ie those who use it pay for it, lets do it. But it can't, and it won't

But that is the thing TB, as you keep on reminding everyone the system is Victorian in origin and requires the billions now being pumped in to bring it up to 21st century+ standards that we all expect. This is after decades of a lack of government funding after it all was left to rot in 1963, and indeed before that going back to 1948. Someone has to pay for that, and it is you and me!! ::) ::) :D :D ;)

 
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