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Author Topic: New Defender  (Read 480 times)

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TheBoy

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Re: New Defender
« Reply #15 on: 11 September 2019, 11:48:40 »

85 ecus doesn't seem particularly military friendly :-\

Don't think many farmers will want them either !!! :-X
I do worry that the delays - I think its 4yrs late from memory - may have diluted their key market, as farmers have looked elsewhere in the meantime.
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Re: New Defender
« Reply #16 on: 11 September 2019, 12:26:29 »

85 ecus doesn't seem particularly military friendly :-\

Don't think many farmers will want them either !!! :-X


Not when they can buy a Ranger, L200 etc for 20k. Which are the reasons why they stopped buying Defenders and Discoveries in the first place.


I like it though; it looks like a mk3/4 Defender would have done if L/R had developed them continuously, and is without all the pointless design of the other cars. It looks thoroughly useful and practical too. If they can make it as durable as a Ranger, then it should have a long life.
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Fuse 19

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Re: New Defender
« Reply #17 on: 11 September 2019, 12:37:46 »

85 ecus doesn't seem particularly military friendly :-\

Don't think many farmers will want them either !!! :-X

Actually, it appears they do.

We get constant requests for them from farmers, who's alternatives have not been able to meet the capability of the original Defender, and we end up looking through group stock for the late originals (or selling them the V8 SVO new ones).

Had just the same in Rippon last week, his replacement vehicle just could not cope, getting stuck etc. and he now has an ex fleet hack
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Field Marshal Dr. Opti

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Re: New Defender
« Reply #18 on: 11 September 2019, 12:43:05 »

I struggle with the purpose of such a vehicle.

90% will be driven by wealthy 'fortysomething' women with fake tits and a tighter 'designer vagina' after popping out a couple of sprogs. I'm sure  it has great off-road capability, but this will not be needed or noticed when parking  in Waitrose, or driving in Chelsea.

I would go back to basics and strip the car of all it's pretentious  glitz. It should be returned to it's roots as an agricultural tool driven by a ruddy-faced farmer with his zipper down and a  fetching ewe on his lap.  ;)

A crude derv engine from an old tug boat is fine for this application. :y

 

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Sir Tigger QC

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Re: New Defender
« Reply #19 on: 11 September 2019, 12:46:01 »


A crude derv engine from an old tug boat is fine for this application. :y


What!!??  :o

I can't believe you just said that!  ;D
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Re: New Defender
« Reply #20 on: 11 September 2019, 12:50:14 »


A crude derv engine from an old tug boat is fine for this application. :y


What!!??  :o

I can't believe you just said that!  ;D

I have never been anti-derv when used in a crude agricultural application, Sir Tig.......tractor......bus...lorry.....cement mixer.....canal boat.

Just keep the unholy black smoke baby killing lumps away from the motor car. :)

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jimmy944

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Re: New Defender
« Reply #21 on: 11 September 2019, 12:55:16 »

I think the van version will sell well, most pick-up owners don't need the capability, they have them because of the van tax regime that makes it much more viable than running a company car.

The ability to put your bum on a JLR seat while getting the tax man help you pay for it will be a powerful draw IMO.

As to the car itself, it's not for me, but I rather like the look of it and I'm sure it'll sell as fast as the Brummy communists can get them out the door.  :y
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Sir Tigger QC

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Re: New Defender
« Reply #22 on: 11 September 2019, 12:57:22 »


A crude derv engine from an old tug boat is fine for this application. :y


What!!??  :o

I can't believe you just said that!  ;D

I have never been anti-derv when used in a crude agricultural application, Sir Tig.......tractor......bus...lorry.....cement mixer.....canal boat.

Just keep the unholy black smoke baby killing lumps away from the motor car. :)

Well it seems that when the application of the new Defender is to be a mum bus there is a 400bhp 6 cylinder petrol engine option!  :y

I assume you applaud this?  :)
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Sir Tigger QC

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Re: New Defender
« Reply #23 on: 11 September 2019, 12:58:01 »

I think the van version will sell well, most pick-up owners don't need the capability, they have them because of the van tax regime that makes it much more viable than running a company car.

The ability to put your bum on a JLR seat while getting the tax man help you pay for it will be a powerful draw IMO.

As to the car itself, it's not for me, but I rather like the look of it and I'm sure it'll sell as fast as the Slovak communists can get them out the door.  :y

FTFY Jimmy!  ;)
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Diamond Black Geezer

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Re: New Defender
« Reply #24 on: 11 September 2019, 13:27:50 »

https://www.topgear.com/videos/frankfurt-motor-show/video-drink-all-details-land-rovers-new-defender

For some obscure reason Top Gear appears to have made a video including facts and information  :D so for anyone who is judging it on just the still pictures, its actually pretty useful, and you get to see some of the more subtle details which don't really come across in most pics.

I notice the checkerplate on the wings seems to be actually functional, so you can actually climb on the vehicle? They've also made the spec/trim levels pretty good re: As the Honorable Mr Fuse 19 says, gives you the choice of basic mud-plugger or blingmobile.

This was always my issue with the BMW Mini - if you're reinventing an icon you should look at what its market was then, why it became great, look at today's market, and make the vehicle for today and allow it to achieve its own greatness, not try and shoehorn it in with chrome bezels and union flag tailamps.

Bit of disposable income now the old RAF airfileds been converted back to pasture, need for round the farm duties, then pop into town without swapping to the old jalopy was the market in Post-War Britain... Even ffwd 30 years and the Series III/90/110 did somewhat still have the market to itself, and a do anything, go anywhere vehicle; being 4WD was still unusual.

None of that applies to today, today's clients & market. Also it suffered when it came up against such as Land Cruiser in world markets, hence it mainly remained a British institution - JLR clearly want this to be a worldwide sales success - they want to be the 'Band that breaks America'

Some might remember how the original Disco was originally seen as too 'soft' and 'just a family car' - now they're to be had for relative peanuts you see no end with sawn off bumpers, jacked up ride height, ladders everywhere and wheels off a monster truck. They were/are a very capable off roader wrapped up in the clothes of something softer, friendly. Its a fine line, Disco 4 was very hard-edged and very 'true' to LR ethos - and sales werent entirely there - the current is much softer, clean, minimalist and looks like a 'town car' - yet the offroad ability and functionality is still there, hidden under the surface for those who want to look.

Back to New Defender - lots of chunky black plastic to take/hide knocks and bumps I see, which is good  :y
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Re: New Defender
« Reply #25 on: 11 September 2019, 13:33:57 »


A crude derv engine from an old tug boat is fine for this application. :y


What!!??  :o

I can't believe you just said that!  ;D

I have never been anti-derv when used in a crude agricultural application, Sir Tig.......tractor......bus...lorry.....cement mixer.....canal boat.

Just keep the unholy black smoke baby killing lumps away from the motor car. :)

Well it seems that when the application of the new Defender is to be a mum bus there is a 400bhp 6 cylinder petrol engine option!  :y

I assume you applaud this?  :)

It needs to find an identity.

If it's primary purpose is as a 'mummy bus' then  I suggest JLR drop the expensive  all wheel drive gubbins and stick a humble 2 litre 4 pot petrol under the bonnet. It's heroic off road capability will not be required here.

If it is to be used a a genuine workhorse by ruddy faced farmers and spend it's day up to it's door handles in mud, then drop the chavvy Chesire elements and stick a crude old diesel lump in the front.

Simples......horses for courses. :y

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TheBoy

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Re: New Defender
« Reply #26 on: 11 September 2019, 13:48:12 »

Not when they can buy a Ranger, L200 etc for 20k. Which are the reasons why they stopped buying Defenders and Discoveries in the first place.
They never stopped buying Defenders, the demand was always there, and the sales numbers were ultra predictable.  JLR were forced into discontinuing it for various compliance reasons.  Farmers and utility companies want them due to their capability, and if anyone thinks that things like L200s are anywhere near as capable are living in a lovely world, far from reality ;)

Discos went too upmarket for utilitarian usage back with the Disco III.
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Re: New Defender
« Reply #27 on: 11 September 2019, 13:52:40 »


A crude derv engine from an old tug boat is fine for this application. :y


What!!??  :o

I can't believe you just said that!  ;D

I have never been anti-derv when used in a crude agricultural application, Sir Tig.......tractor......bus...lorry.....cement mixer.....canal boat.

Just keep the unholy black smoke baby killing lumps away from the motor car. :)

Well it seems that when the application of the new Defender is to be a mum bus there is a 400bhp 6 cylinder petrol engine option!  :y

I assume you applaud this?  :)

It needs to find an identity.

If it's primary purpose is as a 'mummy bus' then  I suggest JLR drop the expensive  all wheel drive gubbins and stick a humble 2 litre 4 pot petrol under the bonnet. It's heroic off road capability will not be required here.

If it is to be used a a genuine workhorse by ruddy faced farmers and spend it's day up to it's door handles in mud, then drop the chavvy Chesire elements and stick a crude old diesel lump in the front.

Simples......horses for courses. :y



Fair point... In part they did this with Evoque, of course - howls of hatred at the first 2WD Landie (only on base model as I recall)

I see you meaning - and that is one of the main challenges of LR, because they make these expensive, quality drivetrains, install them in UK factories, which are scarcely/never used, weigh a lot, make every vehicle heavier than the competition which has a knock-on effect of everything, as we know (mpg, handling, ride, acceleration you name it) and for 90% of customers who look at the specs sheet between the LR, BMW, Merc, Lexus as far as theyre concerned the Germans/Japanese/Koreans do 'the same' job as the Land Rover, for less money...

however...

The Land Rover does do it better, and as soon as you remove that ability - even on one model, you destroy the image in an instant. You make two identical-looking new Defenders one with the ultimate off-road underpinnings, one with 2WD and all mouth and no trousers...no-one looking for a serious offroader want to drive one because they don't want to be mistaken for driving the 'fake' version.... and ironically lots of the TOWIEs won't want to buy them because now 'everyone knows' they're not 'proper' off roaders any more.

Wearing a fake Rolex is fine... but you don't want everyone to know it's a fake, obviously.
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Sir Tigger QC

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Re: New Defender
« Reply #28 on: 11 September 2019, 13:55:40 »


Discos went too upmarket for utilitarian usage back with the Disco III.

Yes, although the Disco 3 that I had was 12 years old and a base spec 'S' model, it was still too nice to fling a few sheep in the back and then get in the drivers seat with shitty boots on.  :)

I've no doubt that I could have got it to the top of a boggy field to get to the sheep though.  :y  ;D
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aaronjb

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Re: New Defender
« Reply #29 on: 11 September 2019, 14:00:31 »

Yes, although the Disco 3 that I had was 12 years old and a base spec 'S' model, it was still too nice to fling a few sheep in the back and then get in the drivers seat with shitty boots on.  :)

Don't you just, er, do what you need to in the field like the Welsh? You Dorset folks are so upmarket if you're taking them home to wine & dine them first! ;) ;D
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