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Author Topic: New Defender  (Read 923 times)

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Diamond Black Geezer

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Re: New Defender
« Reply #30 on: 11 September 2019, 14:01:02 »

Not when they can buy a Ranger, L200 etc for 20k. Which are the reasons why they stopped buying Defenders and Discoveries in the first place.
They never stopped buying Defenders, the demand was always there, and the sales numbers were ultra predictable.  JLR were forced into discontinuing it for various compliance reasons.  Farmers and utility companies want them due to their capability, and if anyone thinks that things like L200s are anywhere near as capable are living in a lovely world, far from reality ;)

Discos went too upmarket for utilitarian usage back with the Disco III.


I've wanted to see, for a long time a Disco, even a Range Rover made as a stripped-down, hose-out the interior, steel wheels, vinyl seats trim level at a massive cut down price. I swear people would buy them - but thats the thing you judge things by your own opinons. I would, but I'm not everybody.

I'd like to know someone at LR, who knows what each vehicle costs to make, right down to individual componentry, what price they could sell a Disco/Velar etc at if you stripped out the lot - equip with manual seats, steel wheels, make a simpler door card, take out the touch screens and the looms that feed it all. They do it all the time on sports cars and call them the 'lightweight' or the 'GT' or 'track edition' etc.
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Re: New Defender
« Reply #31 on: 11 September 2019, 14:17:08 »

The Land Rover does do it better, and as soon as you remove that ability - even on one model, you destroy the image in an instant.
And JLR have struggled (unfairly) to lose their (deserved) reliability issues that mostly went away around 15yrs ago.  Added to that, remember the British public like to berate any successful British company, be it JLR, Tesco, BT, Sky and so on


(yes I know that some of these now have foreign owners)
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Sir Tigger QC

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Re: New Defender
« Reply #32 on: 11 September 2019, 14:18:23 »

Not when they can buy a Ranger, L200 etc for 20k. Which are the reasons why they stopped buying Defenders and Discoveries in the first place.
They never stopped buying Defenders, the demand was always there, and the sales numbers were ultra predictable.  JLR were forced into discontinuing it for various compliance reasons.  Farmers and utility companies want them due to their capability, and if anyone thinks that things like L200s are anywhere near as capable are living in a lovely world, far from reality ;)

Discos went too upmarket for utilitarian usage back with the Disco III.


I've wanted to see, for a long time a Disco, even a Range Rover made as a stripped-down, hose-out the interior, steel wheels, vinyl seats trim level at a massive cut down price. I swear people would buy them - but thats the thing you judge things by your own opinons. I would, but I'm not everybody.

I'd like to know someone at LR, who knows what each vehicle costs to make, right down to individual componentry, what price they could sell a Disco/Velar etc at if you stripped out the lot - equip with manual seats, steel wheels, make a simpler door card, take out the touch screens and the looms that feed it all. They do it all the time on sports cars and call them the 'lightweight' or the 'GT' or 'track edition' etc.

Good point and strip out all the fancy electronic 4x4 gubbins as well, and return to manually operated Hi/Low shift, diff locks etc  :y

As an aside, when I was kid my Dad's mate Joe had a Forward Control and I used to love riding in it.  :y

I was always fascinated by all the levers with their different coloured knobs and if he caught me eyeing them up I'd get a stern "Don't touch those!"  ;D
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Re: New Defender
« Reply #33 on: 11 September 2019, 14:20:57 »

I'd like to know someone at LR, who knows what each vehicle costs to make, right down to individual componentry, what price they could sell a Disco/Velar etc at if you stripped out the lot - equip with manual seats, steel wheels, make a simpler door card, take out the touch screens and the looms that feed it all.
From what I know about car design - my bro, the guy I went on hols with last year (JLR, funnily enough), and friends, not to mention some of Mrs TB's colleagues - it would be quite a lot more, due to design costs, tooling costs, logistics and inventory and so on.
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Re: New Defender
« Reply #34 on: 11 September 2019, 14:23:12 »

Not when they can buy a Ranger, L200 etc for 20k. Which are the reasons why they stopped buying Defenders and Discoveries in the first place.
They never stopped buying Defenders, the demand was always there, and the sales numbers were ultra predictable.  JLR were forced into discontinuing it for various compliance reasons.  Farmers and utility companies want them due to their capability, and if anyone thinks that things like L200s are anywhere near as capable are living in a lovely world, far from reality ;)

Discos went too upmarket for utilitarian usage back with the Disco III.


I've wanted to see, for a long time a Disco, even a Range Rover made as a stripped-down, hose-out the interior, steel wheels, vinyl seats trim level at a massive cut down price. I swear people would buy them - but thats the thing you judge things by your own opinons. I would, but I'm not everybody.

I'd like to know someone at LR, who knows what each vehicle costs to make, right down to individual componentry, what price they could sell a Disco/Velar etc at if you stripped out the lot - equip with manual seats, steel wheels, make a simpler door card, take out the touch screens and the looms that feed it all. They do it all the time on sports cars and call them the 'lightweight' or the 'GT' or 'track edition' etc.

Good point and strip out all the fancy electronic 4x4 gubbins as well, and return to manually operated Hi/Low shift, diff locks etc  :y

As an aside, when I was kid my Dad's mate Joe had a Forward Control and I used to love riding in it.  :y

I was always fascinated by all the levers with their different coloured knobs and if he caught me eyeing them up I'd get a stern "Don't touch those!"[/i]  ;D


.......swiftly followed by a clip around the ear. ;D
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Diamond Black Geezer

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Re: New Defender
« Reply #35 on: 11 September 2019, 14:27:36 »

I'd like to know someone at LR, who knows what each vehicle costs to make, right down to individual componentry, what price they could sell a Disco/Velar etc at if you stripped out the lot - equip with manual seats, steel wheels, make a simpler door card, take out the touch screens and the looms that feed it all.
From what I know about car design - my bro, the guy I went on hols with last year (JLR, funnily enough), and friends, not to mention some of Mrs TB's colleagues - it would be quite a lot more, due to design costs, tooling costs, logistics and inventory and so on.

Which reminds me of the great Trevor Bayliss when he was told by a company that they did not have the facillties or logistical abilities to develop his clockwork radio and he answered "But I made this one in me shed!"

Perhaps that's something 'wrong' that needs addressing - because you're right, it's not just the actual cost of the vehicle to produce - it's the half a billion quid that went before in developing the thing thats part of the list price, too.
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Re: New Defender
« Reply #36 on: 11 September 2019, 15:28:41 »

I'd like to know someone at LR, who knows what each vehicle costs to make, right down to individual componentry, what price they could sell a Disco/Velar etc at if you stripped out the lot - equip with manual seats, steel wheels, make a simpler door card, take out the touch screens and the looms that feed it all.
From what I know about car design - my bro, the guy I went on hols with last year (JLR, funnily enough), and friends, not to mention some of Mrs TB's colleagues - it would be quite a lot more, due to design costs, tooling costs, logistics and inventory and so on.

Which reminds me of the great Trevor Bayliss when he was told by a company that they did not have the facillties or logistical abilities to develop his clockwork radio and he answered "But I made this one in me shed!"

Perhaps that's something 'wrong' that needs addressing - because you're right, it's not just the actual cost of the vehicle to produce - it's the half a billion quid that went before in developing the thing thats part of the list price, too.
....and the rest...
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Sir Tigger QC

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Re: New Defender
« Reply #37 on: 11 September 2019, 15:42:34 »

Thing is.... Land Rover get a right old slagging for moving away from utility vehicles to chelsea tractors, but are any of the other big 4x4 manufacturers any different?  ???

Take Toyota for example.  The early Land Cruisers were the Land Rover Series III rival, and were comparable and capable if basic, off road utility vehicles.  :y

Today's Land Cruiser is a very different beastie and compares more with the Range Rover I'd have thought, but do Toyota get the same brickbats?  :-\
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Re: New Defender
« Reply #38 on: 11 September 2019, 16:06:58 »

Yes, although the Disco 3 that I had was 12 years old and a base spec 'S' model, it was still too nice to fling a few sheep in the back and then get in the drivers seat with shitty boots on.  :)

Don't you just, er, do what you need to in the field like the Welsh? You Dorset folks are so upmarket if you're taking them home to wine & dine them first! ;) ;D
That sounds a lot like a relationship :-\
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Re: New Defender
« Reply #39 on: 11 September 2019, 16:12:56 »

Yes, although the Disco 3 that I had was 12 years old and a base spec 'S' model, it was still too nice to fling a few sheep in the back and then get in the drivers seat with shitty boots on.  :)

Don't you just, er, do what you need to in the field like the Welsh? You Dorset folks are so upmarket if you're taking them home to wine & dine them first! ;) ;D

Yes we're quite sophisticated really!  :y

Raeturbo is the man to ask about Welsh protocol where sheep are concerned.  :)
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Re: New Defender
« Reply #40 on: 11 September 2019, 16:14:13 »

Thing is.... Land Rover get a right old slagging for moving away from utility vehicles to chelsea tractors, but are any of the other big 4x4 manufacturers any different?  ???

Take Toyota for example.  The early Land Cruisers were the Land Rover Series III rival, and were comparable and capable if basic, off road utility vehicles.  :y

Today's Land Cruiser is a very different beastie and compares more with the Range Rover I'd have thought, but do Toyota get the same brickbats?  :-\

No, they aren't, which is where the genuinely basic, utilitarian pick-ups come in. Even accepting they are not as good off road, for a significant majority of users, that extra capability is not required.

Where my parents used to live in the Brecon Beacons, all the farmers (pretty much without exception) ran pick-ups with steel wheels, 4wd and interiors that you could hose out.

One of the main reasons for ditching their defenders was the theft risk, either of the whole vehicle or all of the body panels, wheels and exhausts. Because apparently you can disassemble a defender with nothing more than a spare half an hour and an old spoon.  ::)
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Re: New Defender
« Reply #41 on: 11 September 2019, 16:33:40 »

Thing is.... Land Rover get a right old slagging for moving away from utility vehicles to chelsea tractors, but are any of the other big 4x4 manufacturers any different?  ???

Take Toyota for example.  The early Land Cruisers were the Land Rover Series III rival, and were comparable and capable if basic, off road utility vehicles.  :y

Today's Land Cruiser is a very different beastie and compares more with the Range Rover I'd have thought, but do Toyota get the same brickbats?  :-\

JLR are the ones who haven't moved to Chelsea tractors, they were already there since the days of the Range Rover Classic.  :y

They just had the more utility version to, trouble is it was very time expired and had to be dropped before the new one was available
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Re: New Defender
« Reply #42 on: 12 September 2019, 21:24:29 »

Just watched the Hammond walk-around on drivetribe and I'm now not at all keen.

Its been stuffed with loads of new and advanced tech, which looks great when its lolloping up the side of a mountain with some extreme sports bloke in the drivers' seat, but also means it won't work - or not for long at any rate, because its JLR.

So you have a car that has all this wonderful off road ability (which I have no doubt will be class-leading), but in a vehicle that you need a 14year old with a laptop to fix when it inevitably won't start/ fails to proceed. What we've ended up with is basically a virtue-signalling pose-piece, which is about as far away from the original Defender concept as its possible to get.  ::)
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Re: New Defender
« Reply #43 on: 12 September 2019, 21:30:17 »

Hence my unmilitary comment...
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Re: New Defender
« Reply #44 on: 13 September 2019, 00:30:10 »

It will be interesting to see how this develops!  :)
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