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Author Topic: Worn Front Tires inner Side  (Read 1575 times)

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polilara

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Re: Worn Front Tires inner Side
« Reply #30 on: 23 November 2019, 10:59:38 »

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SUSPENSION-CONTROL-ARMS-WISHBONE-KIT-LOWER-FRONT-OPEL-VAUXHALL-OMEGA-B-/381141643466

So thanks for all comments, I need help as I really have a trouble now. Above is what I bought, installed in a right way, also springs shocks, all possible new in front. The garage was very good which I last visited, all four wheels were in a "bearing table". The car was terrible to drive before I was there and it is still terrible to drive. When going straight ok but when I brake the car moves strongly left and at the same time the steering wheel turns right. Idler has play 20mm up and down but I cannot find any other clearance anywhere. Skould I take wishbones away and check the bushes in table. I cannot find any play there, please help what to study! Just passed MOT so brakes etc are ok.
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Eboy.com

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Re: Worn Front Tires inner Side
« Reply #31 on: 23 November 2019, 11:15:46 »

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SUSPENSION-CONTROL-ARMS-WISHBONE-KIT-LOWER-FRONT-OPEL-VAUXHALL-OMEGA-B-/381141643466

So thanks for all comments, I need help as I really have a trouble now. Above is what I bought, installed in a right way, also springs shocks, all possible new in front. The garage was very good which I last visited, all four wheels were in a "bearing table". The car was terrible to drive before I was there and it is still terrible to drive. When going straight ok but when I brake the car moves strongly left and at the same time the steering wheel turns right. Idler has play 20mm up and down but I cannot find any other clearance anywhere. Skould I take wishbones away and check the bushes in table. I cannot find any play there, please help what to study! Just passed MOT so brakes etc are ok.
I wonder strongly advise against ATP.  My personal experiences of them is that "DHL lost it", which according to my contact at DHL means "ATP never even ordered the courier" when I gave them the details.  Twice now :(

Also, their front suspension kits are crap.  Really crap.


If your wishbones are GM, and structurally fine, refurb them instead.  Replace forward bush with a poly (but buy real Molyslip Copaslip, as powerflex supplied grease is rubbish, and they will squeak after a bit), and rearward bush (if it needs changing) with genuine GM ones.  Only replace the balljoint if it needs it.  Tart the wishabone up with paint if required.
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Re: Worn Front Tires inner Side
« Reply #32 on: 23 November 2019, 13:14:27 »

This.^
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Re: Worn Front Tires inner Side
« Reply #33 on: 23 November 2019, 16:08:54 »

If you have 20mm play in the idler nothing else matters...  :-X
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Re: Worn Front Tires inner Side
« Reply #34 on: 23 November 2019, 18:14:07 »

Absolutely .!
20mm play here is a huge amount and will need rectyfiing first. Cannot see how this was missed at the mot test !
The usual pull one way ,steering wheel flick opposite is normally bushes but this arm needs sorting first ?
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Enceladus

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Re: Worn Front Tires inner Side
« Reply #35 on: 24 November 2019, 02:23:26 »

20mm? Which end of the idler arm? The bushed end that connects to the pivot bolted to the chassis? Is it like this?

Or is it the end with the tapered bore. In which case did you replace the centre tie-rod? Check the ball joints at each end for excess free play, that connect to the idler arm and the Pitman drop arm on the drivers side.

ATP's delivery issues aside a number of members have reported success with that kit. So don't write it off yet. I think you need to sort out the idler first.

If your idler is foobar and if you have access to the wherewithal, then you might as well try pressing in a new bush into your existing arm. You won't be able to get a new genuine one. Bush easily available from Germany.

The ZF catalogue lists the bush as:
BOGE = 87-020-A
LEMF÷RDER = 11602 03

Original idler arms were made by ZF and likely they stopped making them in 2003 having manufactured a run-out quantity for aftermarket sale. Any genuine original parts directly from GM or indirectly as ZF LEMF÷RDER probably ran out about seven yours ago. So now all after market arms are equally rubbish, no matter whose name is on the box. Maybe they all use the same bush. Maybe that's the ZF bush, who knows?
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Re: Worn Front Tires inner Side
« Reply #36 on: 24 November 2019, 09:24:41 »

ATP's delivery issues aside a number of members have reported success with that kit. So don't write it off yet. I think you need to sort out the idler first.
Have you actually seen those ATP wishbones?  They are down there with the crappiest aftermarket (OK, maybe not firstline shite that ECP like to pedal).

Given that the single most expensive "part" is the setting up afterwards, you'd have to be a bit odd to want to replace then annually.

Hence, refurbing the original GMs is always best. The polys are expensive initially at £45, but last for life. Rear GM bushes last about 3-5yrs, even with my driving style, and last set I bought cost about £28 a pair, delivered same day - might have been ex vat though.

Rear bushes can be done in a vice normally, unless really seized, in which case you cut it out, and use a vice to pop new one in.  Slightly more effort than using a press, but not many of us have a press.

Fronts will need cutting out (or a press), but once polybushed, only ever need regreasing when you next replace the rearward bush in a few years.
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Eboy.com

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Re: Worn Front Tires inner Side
« Reply #37 on: 24 November 2019, 09:26:42 »

I have to agree with Enceladus about idlers though. All are shite.

Hence, I still have my GM one on that has the tiniest amount of play. I'd normally replace, but current replacements will be worse in 3 months use.
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Webby the Bear

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Re: Worn Front Tires inner Side
« Reply #38 on: 24 November 2019, 10:30:38 »

Jaime, just noticed your new name eBoy 🤣🤣🤣🤣

I take it thereís no problem refurbing an aftermarket lower arm? Or should an original GM arm be used? I canít see there being an issue with the metal but u might have noticed something I havenít?
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terry paget

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Re: Worn Front Tires inner Side
« Reply #39 on: 24 November 2019, 12:32:27 »

I should like to say a word in defence of ATP wishbones. I have fitted them to all of my Omegas over many years, and have never had cause to complain. Wishbones, drop links and track rods all last about 25,000 miles, by which the car has usually died of something else.
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Re: Worn Front Tires inner Side
« Reply #40 on: 24 November 2019, 12:51:31 »

Likewise, their kit costs a third of a single GM wishbone.

This is a mixed blessing as it makes them really good value for money, ideal for getting a car working cheaply, but clearly they won't last the 80-120k miles that the originals do. Not sure why this comes as a surprise...  ???

Even if you DIY and use the ATP kit, it costs around a grand to overall the suspension on the Omega, including set up. Which is why people cut corners and then wonder why nothing changes with regard to tyre wear etc.

I tended to use the ATP kit on all of my cars, but did poly bush them before fitting.
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Enceladus

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Re: Worn Front Tires inner Side
« Reply #41 on: 24 November 2019, 14:07:18 »

In this case polilara says this about the wishbones, "cannot find any play there".
However he tells us that there is 20mm in the idler arm.
The tracking width has altered (toed out) by 6mm or 7mm (-2mm to +5mm).
The offside camber has increased by 30'.

So there is no firm evidence that the wishbone bushes have failed.
More likely the toe wasn't set accurately due to the idler.
Rolled off the ramp and it was immediate toed out.
Maybe the offside strut bolts were never tightened or the camber was never actually adjusted.
Or maybe it was never measured properly, with the wheels loaded.

I think the way to proceed is to fix the idler and/or the centre tie rod.
Check the wishbone bushes again.
Get the rear adjuster freed or replaced, anyway get the rear alignment correct(able).
I still believe that both front seats should be loaded. Three 25kg bags of sand on each and the tank full when measuring.
Then align the front and make sure everything is tight.
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Eboy.com

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Re: Worn Front Tires inner Side
« Reply #42 on: 24 November 2019, 14:41:13 »

Jaime, just noticed your new name eBoy 🤣🤣🤣🤣

I take it thereís no problem refurbing an aftermarket lower arm? Or should an original GM arm be used? I canít see there being an issue with the metal but u might have noticed something I havenít?
That's the Pikey Pensioner messing with me profile  >:(

With non GM, no guarantee that the bushes are identically sized, and most are poor quality anyway, with shocking balljoints and poor welding.  Hence I stuck with what I had.  But if a decent brand like genuine Lemforder (not the "Lemforder" stuff ECP used to supply in clear packaging a few years back), I see no reason why you couldn't use them.

But you'd be radio rental to refurb an ATP/Firstline/Delphi etc Omega wishbone. You cant put a shine on a turd.
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Eboy.com

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Re: Worn Front Tires inner Side
« Reply #43 on: 24 November 2019, 14:43:07 »

In this case polilara says this about the wishbones, "cannot find any play there".
However he tells us that there is 20mm in the idler arm.
The tracking width has altered (toed out) by 6mm or 7mm (-2mm to +5mm).
The offside camber has increased by 30'.

So there is no firm evidence that the wishbone bushes have failed.
More likely the toe wasn't set accurately due to the idler.
Rolled off the ramp and it was immediate toed out.
Maybe the offside strut bolts were never tightened or the camber was never actually adjusted.
Or maybe it was never measured properly, with the wheels loaded.

I think the way to proceed is to fix the idler and/or the centre tie rod.
Check the wishbone bushes again.
Get the rear adjuster freed or replaced, anyway get the rear alignment correct(able).
I still believe that both front seats should be loaded. Three 25kg bags of sand on each and the tank full when measuring.
Then align the front and make sure everything is tight.
Toe does not cause shoulder wear, which was the original complaint.  Inner shoulder wear can only ever be caused by camber.  Outer shoulder wear is also camber, but can be inflicted by driving like a loon around MK roundabouts.
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Eboy.com

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Re: Worn Front Tires inner Side
« Reply #44 on: 24 November 2019, 14:47:07 »

Likewise, their kit costs a third of a single GM wishbone.

This is a mixed blessing as it makes them really good value for money, ideal for getting a car working cheaply, but clearly they won't last the 80-120k miles that the originals do. Not sure why this comes as a surprise...  ???

Even if you DIY and use the ATP kit, it costs around a grand to overall the suspension on the Omega, including set up. Which is why people cut corners and then wonder why nothing changes with regard to tyre wear etc.

I tended to use the ATP kit on all of my cars, but did poly bush them before fitting.
Refurbing the Omega suspension - though I argue that not all components need to be done, only those that have failed - what is the single most expensive bit?

The setup.

Hence, why would anyone want to do that annually?


Once the polys are bought, a GM wishbone refurb is about £14 per side (probably plus VAT, mind). Far cheaper than ATP's poor quality stuff.

So why fit a pretty poor, vastly inferior product that's a lot more expensive.  I am utter bemused  :o
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