Omega Owners Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Please check the Forum Guidelines at the top of the Newbie section

Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6   Go Down

Author Topic: Red battery warning light and no instruments  (Read 4787 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

LC0112G

  • Omega Knight
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • 0
  • Posts: 1555
    • View Profile
Re: Red battery warning light and no instruments
« Reply #45 on: 13 January 2020, 13:18:39 »

So .. Back to work after an extended XMAS break. Haven't had much time to do anything so will try and catch up on things.

I've bodged up an ammeter on a blown fuse, and plugged it into F15. At the moment it's reading about 400mA. Will see what happens on the drive home tonight. 

Actually I offered you the whole thing, but as you didn't even acknowledge it, I can only presume that you didn't want it :-X

Ok - Sorry. I misunderstood your answer to mean you did have (access to) it but couldn't release it. I have a few Lotus diagrams that fall into that category. If you can let me have/see a copy then I'd be very grateful. Just let me know what you need.

Without getting into a 'debate' about the 'correct' wiring diagram, can you kindly confirm two things?

1.What is the production year letter of your car?
2.What is the date on the rear centre seatbelt?

1) VIN is WOL0VBP69Y1...... . Log book says Variant FD11, Version 6A09KDECF5
2) Rear Seatbelt is 13 04 00. Drivers belt is 23 05 00, and Passengers is 10 05 00.

Registration date is 26-03-2001

So it looks like a mid model year 2000 build.

And as frustrating as all this might be, a thank wouldn't go a miss  :-X

Ok - sorry for that. The help is appreciated.
« Last Edit: 13 January 2020, 13:20:29 by LC0112G »
Logged

Doctor Gollum

  • Omega Queen
  • ********
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • In a colds and darks puddleses
  • Posts: 17306
  • If you can't eat them, join them...
    • Feetses.
    • View Profile
Re: Red battery warning light and no instruments
« Reply #46 on: 13 January 2020, 20:07:17 »

The mirror connection is irrelevant as your car won't have electrically folding mirrors, separate fuse controls the glass position.

If it's actually a 2001MY build, rather than a 2000, then the sunroof connection changes to an alarm ecu one, so there are further differences.

If you're 100% adamant that it's not a cooling system issue or the light switch, although by your own admission it doesn't work properly, then get the car on a lift and inspect the wiring around the following...

1.Level control ecu/sensor on the righthand trailing arm along with the associated loom under the sound deadening beneath the back seat, (look carefully here and you' ll find the relays for the rear seat heaters as well... There's even a guide for that  :-X)

2.Suspension compressor plug and wiring from pump to engine bay.

3.Xenon ecu (above the compressor) plug and wiring to the engine bay.

2 and 3 require headlight removal to properly inspect the loom as it passes through the inner wing.

Being a 2000 build facelift the list I gave you still stands but bear in mind all of the above.

Also the ignition feed is fused, actually from F4 and is, from memory, 80A so will easily allow more than 20 amps through F15.

If you are satisfied that you have exhausted everything on the list, then the only remaining thing is that something has been tacked on to the OUTPUT side of F15 and has a significant fault or a short, probably to the column or dash structure.

Donít know what 'extras' your car might have had fitted, but something as daft as a poorly installed or removed hands free kit would do it... Doesn't matter that it might only draw 3-5 amps, short it and the fuse will blow every single time.
Logged
Onanists always think outside the box.

LC0112G

  • Omega Knight
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • 0
  • Posts: 1555
    • View Profile
Re: Red battery warning light and no instruments
« Reply #47 on: 14 January 2020, 10:13:36 »

I decided not to drive home in the dark with the Ammeter in circuit, coz the ammeter isn't illuminated, and isn't fused, so if whatever it is were to go wrong I risked blowing F4 and I've no idea what else F4 powers so could end up stuck. So replaced F15 again and drove home. Fuse didn't blow.

Plugged the ammeter in for the drive to work this morning, Before cranking, the current is about 1.2A. After engine start this drops to about 400mA. Opening the glove box adds 1A ish (glove box light comes on). Releasing the hand brake and driving off, quiescent drops to 200mA. Doing things that cause dash lights to come on does cause an increase in current by a few 10's of mA, presumably the bulb currents.

Operating interior lights has NO effect. Operating Seats has no effect. Operating wing mirrors has no effect. Operating windows has no effect. Turing the Climate control Off or to ECO or changing the temperature has no effect. Changing the blower motor setting has no effect. Turning the radio (NCDC2013) on/off has no effect. All of these things still work with F15 removed, so I'm not surprised they don't affect the current readings.

What does affect the current is the accelerator. Hard acceleration causes the current to increase to over 1A. It's transient, so difficult to be precise. Lifting off also causes an increase in current to perhaps 800mA - again transient. This suggests to me that something on the Engine (EGR? SAI? or perhaps the charcoal canister?) and/or Auto gearbox is powered by F15. Also hard steering left or right increases the current too, to the ZF control box probably? However, so far I haven't seen anything exceed 2A total. Or perhaps the fuse that's blowing isn't F15 at all (in which case why do I lose dash instruments and glove box light when it blows)?

The only other newish symptom to report is that he alarm power sounder went off over the weekend. I'd left the fuse blown and been driving about on and off for a couple of days for short trips. When I replaced the fuse and started the car the power sounder went off. I had to turn the car off, get out, lock the doors and unlock again to shut it up. I might try a power-sounder-ectomy.

There is no 'phone AFAIK (would have ripped it out if I knew it was there) - radio is NCDC2013. Only addition I'm aware of is Traffic master (which squawks if you hit the button telling you to renew the subscription). Suspension compressor is unplugged. I'll unplug the relays under the rear seats next.
Logged

Doctor Gollum

  • Omega Queen
  • ********
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • In a colds and darks puddleses
  • Posts: 17306
  • If you can't eat them, join them...
    • Feetses.
    • View Profile
Re: Red battery warning light and no instruments
« Reply #48 on: 14 January 2020, 10:28:50 »

The mirror connection from F15 is purely to powerfold the mirrors and doesn't apply to UK cars...

From your description of F4 current behaviour I would be looking at the ignition fed loom between the ignition switch and the fuse boxes as it seems that steering input and vehicle pitch have the greatest effect. You'll need to remove the column cowling, cluster, foam insert under the cluster and the fuse box cover/fuse and relay panels to check properly.
Whilst behind the fuse panels, you can check for spurious feeds to previously installed gubbins.

If you unplugged the rear seats, then you could have unplugged the relays as they're in the same place.

Also follow Kevin's starting/charging guide to rule out an alternator fault.

Assuming that you find nothing obvious in the above, then I have nowt more to offer without the car in front of me.
Logged
Onanists always think outside the box.

LC0112G

  • Omega Knight
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • 0
  • Posts: 1555
    • View Profile
Re: Red battery warning light and no instruments
« Reply #49 on: 14 January 2020, 11:02:18 »

The mirror connection from F15 is purely to powerfold the mirrors and doesn't apply to UK cars...

From your description of F4 current behaviour I would be looking at the ignition fed loom between the ignition switch and the fuse boxes as it seems that steering input and vehicle pitch have the greatest effect. You'll need to remove the column cowling, cluster, foam insert under the cluster and the fuse box cover/fuse and relay panels to check properly.
Whilst behind the fuse panels, you can check for spurious feeds to previously installed gubbins.

If you unplugged the rear seats, then you could have unplugged the relays as they're in the same place.

Also follow Kevin's starting/charging guide to rule out an alternator fault.

Assuming that you find nothing obvious in the above, then I have nowt more to offer without the car in front of me.

The Ammeter is replacing fuse F15, not F4. At least it's replacing what I *think* is F15.

Logged

Doctor Gollum

  • Omega Queen
  • ********
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • In a colds and darks puddleses
  • Posts: 17306
  • If you can't eat them, join them...
    • Feetses.
    • View Profile
Re: Red battery warning light and no instruments
« Reply #50 on: 14 January 2020, 11:35:54 »

The key to the fuse box is on the lid and in the manual...

But yes, that's F15.

Missing one of the large fuses as well by the look of it.
Logged
Onanists always think outside the box.

LC0112G

  • Omega Knight
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • 0
  • Posts: 1555
    • View Profile
Re: Red battery warning light and no instruments
« Reply #51 on: 14 January 2020, 12:29:23 »

Missing one of the large fuses as well by the look of it.

Top Right you mean? That's F35 according to the fuse box lid and various online sources. My Owners manual shows it as unused, and there don't appear to be any terminals fitted in the fuse box. The text says Window lifter 30A though.



The key to the fuse box is on the lid and in the manual...

But yes, that's F15.

Thanks - though I was going mad. My drivers manual *does* list cruise control as being from F15 though.  :-\ And the manual does seem to corrospond more closely to what units fail when I pull F15 than your list does?
Logged

LC0112G

  • Omega Knight
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • 0
  • Posts: 1555
    • View Profile
Re: Red battery warning light and no instruments
« Reply #52 on: 15 January 2020, 09:55:07 »

[Yesterday]
Pulled under-bonnet fuse FV4 (80A). Sure enough nothing works. A quick look at Haynes (yes I know) shows this as being the fused feed to the ignition switch, so not surprising really. Anyway, put FV4 back again and everything works as it should. 

Lifted the rear seats and removed the two seat heating relays - K65 and K66. Then left the car ticking over for an hour in the car park at work, occasionally jumping on all 4 corners to 'excite' the suspension levelling and headlight aim widgets. Fuse F15 remained intact.

Drove home about 6PM, and about 20 minuits into the journey F15 blows again. Too dark, pi55ing down with rain and blowing a hoolie so no chance to look further.

[This morning]
Replaced F15 again and pulled K19 (suspension pump relay) from the fuse box.  Drove to work. Currently the car is ticking over in the car park again, and F15 is still Ok after 20 minutes.

Next 2 things to try are to unplug the rear seat heating switches S96 and S97, and unplug the rear level sensor (K21). I don't really believe tht will cure it, but it will rule out all possible causes (except wiring loom shorts) from the rear seat heating and the suspension levelling.
Logged

STEMO

  • Omega Queen
  • ********
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Up North
  • Posts: 15963
    • Astra 2.0 diesel
    • View Profile
Re: Red battery warning light and no instruments
« Reply #53 on: 15 January 2020, 10:02:26 »

The other way of doing things is to unplug everything that's not absolutely essential and then plug them back in one at a time.
If the fuse still blows it's got to be the wiring.
Logged
If you are offended by anything I post, sorry. Just thought I'd get that in now.

LC0112G

  • Omega Knight
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • 0
  • Posts: 1555
    • View Profile
Re: Red battery warning light and no instruments
« Reply #54 on: 15 January 2020, 11:00:45 »

The other way of doing things is to unplug everything that's not absolutely essential and then plug them back in one at a time.
If the fuse still blows it's got to be the wiring.

Agreed, but one of the things that has to come out for that is the light switch, and I can't drive home in the dark without that. And the instrument/dash binnacle. That coupled with the fact I'm still not convinced that DG's list is correct for my car, it's difficult to be sure what is and isn't connected to F15.

Anyhow after about an hour of ticking over F15 blew again. At the time I was faffing with the drivers door window up/down switch assembly and generally thumping the door card. Could just have been a coincidence, but I've removed the switch assembly  (S37, or whatever replaces it in a facelift VX53239727/OP09-148-004/QR), replaced the fuse, and it's ticking over again in the car park. I'll go for a drive down to Yeovilton lunchtime to see if I can see the F35's on their way to Redflag OTT :-)
Logged

STEMO

  • Omega Queen
  • ********
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Up North
  • Posts: 15963
    • Astra 2.0 diesel
    • View Profile
Re: Red battery warning light and no instruments
« Reply #55 on: 15 January 2020, 13:15:32 »

The other way of doing things is to unplug everything that's not absolutely essential and then plug them back in one at a time.
If the fuse still blows it's got to be the wiring.

Agreed, but one of the things that has to come out for that is the light switch, and I can't drive home in the dark without that. And the instrument/dash binnacle. That coupled with the fact I'm still not convinced that DG's list is correct for my car, it's difficult to be sure what is and isn't connected to F15.

Anyhow after about an hour of ticking over F15 blew again. At the time I was faffing with the drivers door window up/down switch assembly and generally thumping the door card. Could just have been a coincidence, but I've removed the switch assembly  (S37, or whatever replaces it in a facelift VX53239727/OP09-148-004/QR), replaced the fuse, and it's ticking over again in the car park. I'll go for a drive down to Yeovilton lunchtime to see if I can see the F35's on their way to Redflag OTT :-)
I did say everything that's not absolutely essential.
Logged
If you are offended by anything I post, sorry. Just thought I'd get that in now.

LC0112G

  • Omega Knight
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • 0
  • Posts: 1555
    • View Profile
Re: Red battery warning light and no instruments
« Reply #56 on: 15 January 2020, 14:55:21 »

F15 popped again on the way to Yeovilton - 5 minutes less than 5 miles. No F35's seen coz they've cancelled till tomorrow (when it'll no doubt be p1551ngs down with rain again.

Have now completely unplugged the rear level sensor (K21), and the rear seat heating switches (S96 and S97). Car ticking over in the car park.

Radio will probably be next, followed by the headlamp levelling control unit. After that it'll probably be dash out time  >:(
Logged

Doctor Gollum

  • Omega Queen
  • ********
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • In a colds and darks puddleses
  • Posts: 17306
  • If you can't eat them, join them...
    • Feetses.
    • View Profile
Re: Red battery warning light and no instruments
« Reply #57 on: 15 January 2020, 16:05:50 »

I have already suggested where to be looking at the loom.

Randomly unplugging things will tell you nothing.

You need to either test each item properly, or pay someone to do so.

If you're not prepared to do either, then you're probably better off buying a car that works... If only for your own sanity.
Logged
Onanists always think outside the box.

LC0112G

  • Omega Knight
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • 0
  • Posts: 1555
    • View Profile
Re: Red battery warning light and no instruments
« Reply #58 on: 15 January 2020, 16:43:16 »

I have already suggested where to be looking at the loom.

Randomly unplugging things will tell you nothing.

You need to either test each item properly, or pay someone to do so.

If you're not prepared to do either, then you're probably better off buying a car that works... If only for your own sanity.

I disagree. I accept it could be the loom. However, until/unless this weather lets up I can't get under the car to check the things you suggest.

And why would I want to test something that when removed doesn't cure the fault? However, if required I can bench test and fix most complex electrics/electronics. ::)

I am not randomly unplugging things. I am unplugging things that are known to be connected to F15. I accept that switches and relay coils are unlikely to be the cause but they're easy to access and rule out. The fault has to be downstream of F15. Apart from possibly the Cruise control (which the owners manual says is connected to F15) everything I have unplugged is connected to F15. And until I've found the fault there is no need to plug them back in - except the dash and light switch.

Something taking 20-30A is going to be big and mechanical  not small and electronic - a motor, fan, blower, compressor etc. Or a loom fault. The only such things that I haven't disconnected so far (AFAIK) are the Headlamp levelling, radio, sunroof, climate control.
 
Logged

biggriffin

  • Omega Lord
  • *******
  • Offline Offline
  • huntingdon, Hoof'land
  • Posts: 8956
    • Vectra in a posh frock.
    • View Profile
Re: Red battery warning light and no instruments
« Reply #59 on: 17 January 2020, 12:46:24 »

I'd, be checking the earth strap's, as they corrode,
Logged
Hoof'land storeman.
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.242 seconds with 23 queries.