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Author Topic: Original hose spring clip  (Read 1955 times)

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TheBoy

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Re: Original hose spring clip
« Reply #15 on: 10 August 2020, 16:19:24 »

Outside of an emergency, there is never a place on a car for a jubliee/wormdrive clip.  Thats why everyone moved over to the more reliable clips.

I appreciate some people believe points and carburettors are so much better than modern engine management systems, but its time to understand the world has moved to a better place.
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Re: Original hose spring clip
« Reply #16 on: 10 August 2020, 16:28:40 »

Outside of an emergency, there is never a place on a car for a jubliee/wormdrive clip.  Thats why everyone moved over to the more reliable clips.

I appreciate some people believe points and carburettors are so much better than modern engine management systems, but its time to understand the world has moved to a better place.


There's a man who has never recovered a car 100 miles at 02:00 due to a weeping water hose. If it had been retained with a worm drive clamp I could have tweaked it and finished the entire job(including the paper work) in a couple of minutes. I've seen and put up with more leaking spring clamps than I have worm drive ones. Years of practical experience is why I install the spring clamps firmly in the bin. If installing rubber hoses on a robot production line, I would be specifying spring clamps, as problems would be SEP.
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Re: Original hose spring clip
« Reply #17 on: 10 August 2020, 17:30:07 »

If installing rubber hoses on a robot production line, I would be specifying spring clamps, as problems would be SEP.
If you had a production line, you would indeed be fitting the correct fittings, because as a business, you would not want the warranty claims or reliability reputation. Be that weeps (because jubilees are universally crap on smaller hoses, like those on car engines), damaged hoses or cracked plastics.

But we'll agree to disagree, because you believe you are absolutely right, and I already know that spring clips are chosen for engineering reasons, not just cost.
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Re: Original hose spring clip
« Reply #18 on: 10 August 2020, 17:41:27 »

Outside of an emergency, there is never a place on a car for a jubliee/wormdrive clip.  Thats why everyone moved over to the more reliable clips.

I appreciate some people believe points and carburettors are so much better than modern engine management systems, but its time to understand the world has moved to a better place.

I'll watch you try to fit the original spring clips to the thermostat on my Smart Roadster .... just no room to get anything in there to open them up .... stainless Jubilee clips of the correct size when straight on. No problem years/miles later  :y :y

but all points should be put in the bin!  :y :y
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Re: Original hose spring clip
« Reply #19 on: 10 August 2020, 17:53:39 »

Outside of an emergency, there is never a place on a car for a jubliee/wormdrive clip.  Thats why everyone moved over to the more reliable clips.

I appreciate some people believe points and carburettors are so much better than modern engine management systems, but its time to understand the world has moved to a better place.

I'll watch you try to fit the original spring clips to the thermostat on my Smart Roadster .... just no room to get anything in there to open them up .... stainless Jubilee clips of the correct size when straight on. No problem years/miles later  :y :y

but all points should be put in the bin!  :y :y
Ah, yes, but that is "designed" by Mercedes Benz, so you're screwed before you start.

With the correct tools, if you can get any round clip on, you normally should be able to get a spring clip on. But I've not seem it, so take your word for it :)
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Nick W

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Re: Original hose spring clip
« Reply #20 on: 10 August 2020, 18:15:34 »


If you had a production line, you would indeed be fitting the correct fittings, because as a business, you would not want the warranty claims or reliability reputation. Be that weeps (because jubilees are universally crap on smaller hoses, like those on car engines), damaged hoses or cracked plastics.

But we'll agree to disagree, because you believe you are absolutely right, and I already know that spring clips are chosen for engineering reasons, not just cost.



As I've repeatedly posted, I use Jubilees(or Ideal) to reduce returns on mywork. All professional mechanics I know do the same - everyone keeps a range of them. Having a job come back because of a leaking hose due to not using a 70p clamp is unacceptable.


I don't overtighten them - a radiator size hose needs 5Nm, and will hold 100psi - and have never damaged a hose. Any type of hose clamp will have rolled edges if it can be considered a quality part.


 I reckon you'll strip the drive before cracking a plastic housing. Those are an entirely different aspect of inadequate engineering, consider the failure rate of BMW and Porsche plastic cooling parts.


The 35mm size for a radiator hose is hardly small, and the correct size(as small as you can) don't leak on FI hoses, temporary repairs on welding hoses(the correct crimp on ones worry me, but acetylene isn't to be fooled with)or low power hydraulic systems.


The Jubilee clamp was developed over 100 years ago, by an RN engineer, to provide an easy to use, long lasting and reliable replacement for twisted wire clamps like these pictured with a tool to produce them:


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Nick W

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Re: Original hose spring clip
« Reply #21 on: 10 August 2020, 18:17:34 »


With the correct tools, if you can get any round clip on, you normally should be able to get a spring clip on. But I've not seem it, so take your word for it :)


You can replace a Jubilee clip without removing the hose......
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TheBoy

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Re: Original hose spring clip
« Reply #22 on: 10 August 2020, 19:21:46 »

The Jubilee clamp was developed over 100 years ago
Precisely.
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Re: Original hose spring clip
« Reply #23 on: 10 August 2020, 19:22:27 »


With the correct tools, if you can get any round clip on, you normally should be able to get a spring clip on. But I've not seem it, so take your word for it :)


You can replace a Jubilee clip without removing the hose......
True, but only if you have space to get you hands in. Which it sounds like there isn't.
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Re: Original hose spring clip
« Reply #24 on: 10 August 2020, 20:04:52 »

The Jubilee clamp was developed over 100 years ago
Precisely.




If you want modern, why not swap to heat shrunk sleeves?


Try this simple test:
wander into any workshop that might be expected to connect a hose to something, and have them show you what they would use. If it isn't a genuine Jubilee clip(which is still a family owned company 100 years later) it will be a derivative. That's why they're readily available from any source of hardware.


Spring clamps are good enough on automotive coolant systems because they're low temp/pressure water. If you increase the temp and/or pressure, or change the fluid then better fittings are required. So you move through worm drive, T-bolt band clamps(which make a good exhaust clamp), then proprietary screw together fittings and into hydraulically swaged ones.
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Re: Original hose spring clip
« Reply #25 on: 11 August 2020, 01:36:59 »

with factory rust and bonus dried blood from the previous owner who ripped his skin apart on the crappy things  :-X


That's all part of the seasoning. But they are made hand crafted by certified pure-bred descendents of Alexander Wilson from Ultra-madeupiumTM, so it won't have adversely affected them.


For those unaware this is historically accurate  :y
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Re: Original hose spring clip
« Reply #26 on: 11 August 2020, 09:36:34 »

with factory rust and bonus dried blood from the previous owner who ripped his skin apart on the crappy things  :-X


That's all part of the seasoning. But they are made hand crafted by certified pure-bred descendents of Alexander Wilson from Ultra-madeupiumTM, so it won't have adversely affected them.


For those unaware this is historically accurate  :y


When aiming for satire, I usually settle for sarcasm. Historic accuracy is a first. And probably a last ;D [size=78%] [/size]
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TheBoy

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Re: Original hose spring clip
« Reply #27 on: 11 August 2020, 22:46:52 »

The Jubilee clamp was developed over 100 years ago
Precisely.




If you want modern, why not swap to heat shrunk sleeves?


Try this simple test:
wander into any workshop that might be expected to connect a hose to something, and have them show you what they would use. If it isn't a genuine Jubilee clip(which is still a family owned company 100 years later) it will be a derivative. That's why they're readily available from any source of hardware.


Spring clamps are good enough on automotive coolant systems because they're low temp/pressure water. If you increase the temp and/or pressure, or change the fluid then better fittings are required. So you move through worm drive, T-bolt band clamps(which make a good exhaust clamp), then proprietary screw together fittings and into hydraulically swaged ones.
Sadly, because some have always used jubilees, thats all they use, and the workshops are full of the pieces of shite. As previously stated, as a quick bodge to get you out of trouble, they have a place.  But to replace a better clamp with them is an unusual stance.

But you won't find them in any modern workshop, because they are not that good, particularly on smaller applications like cars.

Also, you would find any on modern cars, because they aren't suitable.

You won't find them on performance cars (unless the tuner is an old fella who believes carbs and points give more power), because they aren't suitable.

In rare cases, you may find other types of worm drive, like T bar or that one with an retained nut and bolt and the name escapes me. These are kinder to hoses and plastics, and far less likely to leak than a jubilee, but still suffer the problem of a pinch point, and the variations of fitting by different technicians.


I did have a long chat with a man who built F1 engines in a former life, and we tried to think of any scenario when a jubilee would be a good choice on a car. And failed.  Unsurprisingly, seeing as years ago I recall a similar discussion with car designer Bro, although he did say some old British cars made by the Norfolk carrot crunchers used some odd hoses, so when he did his old Europa, he did use worm drive clamps (but not jubilees).


As said, we'll never agree on it. I believe you are incorrect, and you believe I am. Differences are healthy though :).
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Re: Original hose spring clip
« Reply #28 on: 11 August 2020, 23:16:37 »

Best you don't look too closely at Airbus plumbing... :-X
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Re: Original hose spring clip
« Reply #29 on: 12 August 2020, 13:05:24 »

Best you don't look too closely at Airbus plumbing... :-X
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