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Author Topic: 2.5 V6 - Juddering and poor MPG  (Read 2462 times)

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RobG

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Re: 2.5 V6 - Juddering and poor MPG
« Reply #45 on: 17 March 2009, 17:17:17 »

Quote
Quote
Please explain your comments about the HT leads. Are you wondering if the plugs #1 and #5 have been switched round?

The coil pack contains 3 separate coils which fire 2 cylinders each, spearated by 360 degrees of crank rotation. Normally, one of these coils will fail before the others so if you observed cylinders 1 and 4 missing, for example, it would be clear that the corresponding coil had failed.

1 and 5 don't share a coil though. :-/

I think exchanging the leads and coil pack is a good plan.

Kevin
Courtesy of MDTM post Nope, coil pack is

1-3-5
4-6-2

And hence is often got wrong resulting in a miss fire!.

Its the above because the firing order is 1-2-3-4-5-6 and it uses the wasted spark i.e. 1-4, 2-5, 3-6

And hence there are 3 coils in the DIS pack giving the above arrangement
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2am Omega

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Re: 2.5 V6 - Juddering and poor MPG
« Reply #46 on: 18 March 2009, 16:43:48 »

from the Beast from Omega Klub Polska

Quote
Testing procedure as follows (DIS needs to be disconnected!):
Low voltage input. Check between pins:
1-4
2-4
3-4
Resistance should be between 0.45 do 0.65 Ohm.

High voltage output. Check between pins::
1-4
2-5
3-6
Resistance between 11000-16000 Ohm
Im afraid that you have to remove the plenum

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2am Omega

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Re: 2.5 V6 - Juddering and poor MPG
« Reply #47 on: 18 March 2009, 16:46:39 »

Thanks to the Beast from Omega Klub Polska.

Let me make sure I understand this. Your electrical testing procedure is to test the EXISTING Dis Pack in situ to see if it is functioning properly? And if it is working within those electrical ranges then it does not need to be replaced? Will that be conclusive proof for all rev speeds? Please confirm.

Does this require any particular type of AVO meter? I know Chris has lots of tools but I will check after you confirm what is needed.

I have bought a replacement Dis Pack yesterday - but your suggestion of testing is very welcome because it might mean the replacement may not be needed.
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2am Omega

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Re: 2.5 V6 - Juddering and poor MPG
« Reply #48 on: 18 March 2009, 16:50:34 »

from the Beast from Omega Klub Polska.


Quote
Yes, you can check the DIS pack when its out of the car. It cannot be connected. You can check the resistance so this should show any irregularities like rev related (poor voltage conversion, short circuit). It might not show any problems heat related as when cold resistance can be OK.
You can use the cheapest reader http://irma.pl/photos/article/miernik_elektryczny.jpg like this one
Did you managed to check any engine fault codes using code reader (not the paperclip test)?
Its also good to check all information about the engine MAF sensor values, O2 sensors, engine temp etc.
What about spark plugs do they looks the same or are there any different color? you can check old ones.
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mkaminski100

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Re: 2.5 V6 - Juddering and poor MPG
« Reply #49 on: 18 March 2009, 16:53:41 »

Quote
Thanks to the Beast from Omega Klub Polska.

Let me make sure I understand this. Your electrical testing procedure is to test the EXISTING Dis Pack in situ to see if it is functioning properly? And if it is working within those electrical ranges then it does not need to be replaced? Will that be conclusive proof for all rev speeds? Please confirm.
Yes, but it needs to be disconected. This way you can check if any of the coils is faulty. If DIS pack problem is heat related, I'm affraid it will not show anything in low temp.

Does this require any particular type of AVO meter? I know Chris has lots of tools but I will check after you confirm what is needed.
Standard one, with proper resistance range is fine.

I have bought a replacement Dis Pack yesterday - but your suggestion of testing is very welcome because it might mean the replacement may not be needed.

I try not to replace parts if I'm not quite sure they're broken. Sometime's you just cant tell and have to replace it

Hope this helps. "Beast" is a friend from Polish Omega Forum.
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2am Omega

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Re: 2.5 V6 - Juddering and poor MPG
« Reply #50 on: 18 March 2009, 17:10:54 »

Quote
Did you manage to check any engine fault codes using code reader (not the paperclip test)?
Its also good to check all information about the engine MAF sensor values, O2 sensors, engine temp etc.
What about spark plugs do they look the same or are there any different colour? you can check old ones.

I did the Paperclip test several times .. no faults shown (just 12 repeating). Please explain what is a "code reader" and what needs to be done.

All the spark plugs were replaced last Sunday using Bosch 520 FR91X Super 4 plugs, but it made no difference. The old ones seemed mostly OK .. no black arc scorch lines on insulators .. but a small amount of oil on outside, though Chris said not deep in wells.

Does it sound like I can avoid changing the rocker cover gaskets for now? I would prefer to know that the juddering has been resolved and the fuel economy has been restored before I incur further costs.
« Last Edit: 18 March 2009, 20:07:29 by 2am »
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2am Omega

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Re: 2.5 V6 - Juddering and poor MPG
« Reply #51 on: 18 March 2009, 17:23:10 »

Quote
I would give those parts a try before worrying about anything else. The likelihood is that it's the coil pack or leads, IMHO. If that doesn't clear it we can have another think.

Kevin

I like that approach .. one step at a time .. but I accept that there may be other necessary maintenance in future.
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feeutfo

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Re: 2.5 V6 - Juddering and poor MPG
« Reply #52 on: 18 March 2009, 19:46:14 »

Quote
Quote
I would give those parts a try before worrying about anything else. The likelihood is that it's the coil pack or leads, IMHO. If that doesn't clear it we can have another think.

Kevin

I like that approach .. one step at a time .. but I accept that there may be other necessary maintenance in future.

Was thinking of doing the cam cover gaskits while the plenum is off. But maybe another day. We can do breathers anyway.
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2am Omega

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Re: 2.5 V6 - Juddering and poor MPG
« Reply #53 on: 21 March 2009, 10:19:13 »

I am with Chrisgixer at his home now .. replacing Dis Pack and HT leads and Vacuum System components.

Trying to test Dis Pack using AVO Meter but not familiar with testing. Trying to follow earlier guidance from Beast from Polish Omega Klub on this thread.

Ohms reading between pins shows 11.6 for each of 3 coils. Is this OK? At least it is the same for each of the 3 pairs.

Not sure how to use meter for voltage tests. Can somebody please help?
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2am Omega

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Re: 2.5 V6 - Juddering and poor MPG
« Reply #54 on: 22 March 2009, 00:14:42 »

Success .. No more juddering .. and fuel consumption restored to normal. My car is now running as smooth as velvet again.

The primary problem was a failed coil in the Dis Pack. HT leads and spark plugs were also replaced, along with vacuum system components.

A big thank you to Chrisgixer for fitting them for me.

And another big thank you to everyone who posted guidance and opinions to help resolve these issues.
« Last Edit: 22 March 2009, 00:16:29 by 2am »
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mkaminski100

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Re: 2.5 V6 - Juddering and poor MPG
« Reply #55 on: 22 March 2009, 10:06:52 »

Great, problem solved then.  :y
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feeutfo

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Re: 2.5 V6 - Juddering and poor MPG
« Reply #56 on: 22 March 2009, 10:53:35 »

yep, all running sweet again, dis had split open on the under side, the iron core was badly rusted. Those that said so at the start of this thread where spot on.   :y  another dis fitted.

In addition we had buggered leads, the car has had oil in well issues before this obviously had buggered the rubber which practically fell apart. Second hand genuine leads fitted.

The breathers where partially blocked. Cleaned those out.

No vac system to multi rams. New vac tank and a new piece of pipe and both multi rams are working fine with a good blip.

Car now running fine.

Just to confirm to 2a.m. The car is fine and definately worth keeping on top of the maintenance, it will then serve you well and is the cheapest way to keep you mobile.

Anyway, happy migging Andy, and thanks to all who helped with this issue. Oof at its best.  :y


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Kevin Wood

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Re: 2.5 V6 - Juddering and poor MPG
« Reply #57 on: 22 March 2009, 15:25:53 »

Glad it's sorted. Worth keeping an eye out of roil in the plug wells by the sound of it although with the breathers now clear you may well be lucky.

Kevin
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mkaminski100

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Re: 2.5 V6 - Juddering and poor MPG
« Reply #58 on: 22 March 2009, 19:55:15 »

To admin - is there a chance to add information on how to check coil pack to our Maintenance Guides? Might be helpful to others and save money is coil pack is suspected but is not a problem.

Testing procedure as follows (DIS needs to be disconnected!):
Low voltage input. Check between pins:
1-4
2-4
3-4
Resistance should be between 0.45 do 0.65 Ohm.

High voltage output. Check between pins::
1-4
2-5
3-6
Resistance between 11000-16000 Ohm
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