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Author Topic: Engine noise, terminal?  (Read 44938 times)

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TheBoy

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Re: Engine noise, terminal?
« Reply #30 on: 01 March 2010, 10:09:11 »

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if there is a foreign object, would the idle not be rough?  :-/

You'd only lose 1 cylinder. I'd say at least 5 were firing.

Kevin
DO you think it was running on 5?  I thought it was probably running too well to be 1cyl down?

But then the compression test......

Not sure  :-/ The engine seemed to be rocking a little, but the important point IMHO is that it was smooth on the cylinders that are OK (I.E. no massive air leak causing it to run lean, etc.).

I think the compression test points to the next course of action, unpalatable though it may be. :(

Kevin
I think in our heart of hearts, that was the conclusion that we came to last night, and sleeping* on it hasn't come up with any other ideas.


*I reckon I may have had even less sleep that you :o
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Re: Engine noise, terminal?
« Reply #31 on: 01 March 2010, 10:13:24 »

So....check the plug on no1 cylinder...is it tight, is the thread damaged etc (they make quite a crack on each firing when loose!).

Rotate the crank to TDC with No 1 valves shut.... put a teaspoon of some suitable liquid into each valve duct and see if it goes anywhere.

Other option is to shine a bright torch into the spark plug hole with the crank in the above condition and look for light leaking past the inlet valve.

I assume the injector wiring is as per original manufacture and does not have any LPG un-knowns in the setup.
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Re: Engine noise, terminal?
« Reply #32 on: 01 March 2010, 10:22:34 »

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So....check the plug on no1 cylinder...is it tight, is the thread damaged etc (they make quite a crack on each firing when loose!).

Plug has been in and out. They were correctly torqued and no damage apparent.

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Rotate the crank to TDC with No 1 valves shut.... put a teaspoon of some suitable liquid into each valve duct and see if it goes anywhere.

I can give this a try tonight. :y

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Other option is to shine a bright torch into the spark plug hole with the crank in the above condition and look for light leaking past the inlet valve.

I will try this too.

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I assume the injector wiring is as per original manufacture and does not have any LPG un-knowns in the setup.

It has the injector wiring looped through the LPG ECU (which is unpowered). Can give it a try with the original loom, I suppose.

Kevin
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Fuse 19

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Re: Engine noise, terminal?
« Reply #33 on: 01 March 2010, 10:25:33 »

Yep....back to basics....take the LPG setup OUT of the ecu loom.

Its not impossible that the LPG setup is doing something stupid to injector no 1.....
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Re: Engine noise, terminal?
« Reply #34 on: 01 March 2010, 10:26:31 »

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I assume the injector wiring is as per original manufacture and does not have any LPG un-knowns in the setup.

It has the injector wiring looped through the LPG ECU (which is unpowered). Can give it a try with the original loom, I suppose.

Kevin
At worse, that would just be like running a single point injection if the LPG ECU was doing something odd? Or like when cam sensor goes, and it fires injectors in pairs?
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Re: Engine noise, terminal?
« Reply #35 on: 01 March 2010, 10:27:19 »

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*I reckon I may have had even less sleep that you :o

Got in at about 4 IIRC (please don't calculate the average speed ::)). Probably got to bed at about 4:30 (there were things in my hair from the garage floor that didn't belong on my pillow, so had to wash it - gay, I know!)

Woke up again at about 5:30 - 6 I think. >:(

Kevin
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Re: Engine noise, terminal?
« Reply #36 on: 01 March 2010, 10:28:15 »

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I assume the injector wiring is as per original manufacture and does not have any LPG un-knowns in the setup.

It has the injector wiring looped through the LPG ECU (which is unpowered). Can give it a try with the original loom, I suppose.

Kevin
At worse, that would just be like running a single point injection if the LPG ECU was doing something odd? Or like when cam sensor goes, and it fires injectors in pairs?

......and if the LPG setup was firing no 1 injector permanently due to an internal short....e.g. loads of bore wash.....
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JamesV6CDX

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Re: Engine noise, terminal?
« Reply #37 on: 01 March 2010, 10:29:45 »

I have to be honest, my 2.5 CDX sounded AWFUL when trying to start it after major surgery... all sorts of banging, popping...  this was caused by bore wash too.

Will be very interested in tonight's results :y
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Re: Engine noise, terminal?
« Reply #38 on: 01 March 2010, 10:40:11 »

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I assume the injector wiring is as per original manufacture and does not have any LPG un-knowns in the setup.

It has the injector wiring looped through the LPG ECU (which is unpowered). Can give it a try with the original loom, I suppose.

Kevin
At worse, that would just be like running a single point injection if the LPG ECU was doing something odd? Or like when cam sensor goes, and it fires injectors in pairs?

......and if the LPG setup was firing no 1 injector permanently due to an internal short....e.g. loads of bore wash.....
That makes a lot of sense :y


Would that cause the noise, as I think it would be really coincidental for the injector to cause the compression, and the metallic noise to be an unrelated issue?  I guess borewash means lack of lubrication in that pot though?
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Re: Engine noise, terminal?
« Reply #39 on: 01 March 2010, 10:58:22 »

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That makes a lot of sense :y
It's a ray of hope, thinking about it.

1) It's not unheard of for Teilo's looms to be wrong. I recall someone else having one with a wiring error of some description.

2) extreme bore wash might explain why the compression got worse when we retested it after testing with the aux. belt removed. FOD would probably have resulted in a one-off knackering of the valves rather than progressive.

3) The plug from that pot did seem quite wet (although they all were, it having been fired up for only a couple of seconds from cold).

4) There was no evidence of damage on the plug or the piston crown consistent with something getting battered around in there.

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Would that cause the noise, as I think it would be really coincidental for the injector to cause the compression, and the metallic noise to be an unrelated issue?  I guess borewash means lack of lubrication in that pot though?

Noise did sound ominous, but I guess if the oil film between piston and bore had been taken out, the piston would be rattling around in the bore.

Not sure I'll be up for reassembling it and running it tonight. An early night seems a better option at the moment, but I can at least buzz out the LPG loom pretty easily and check that the injector signal is correctly looped through.

Kevin
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Re: Engine noise, terminal?
« Reply #40 on: 01 March 2010, 11:19:00 »

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That makes a lot of sense :y
It's a ray of hope, thinking about it.

1) It's not unheard of for Teilo's looms to be wrong. I recall someone else having one with a wiring error of some description.

2) extreme bore wash might explain why the compression got worse when we retested it after testing with the aux. belt removed. FOD would probably have resulted in a one-off knackering of the valves rather than progressive.

3) The plug from that pot did seem quite wet (although they all were, it having been fired up for only a couple of seconds from cold).

4) There was no evidence of damage on the plug or the piston crown consistent with something getting battered around in there.

Quote

Would that cause the noise, as I think it would be really coincidental for the injector to cause the compression, and the metallic noise to be an unrelated issue?  I guess borewash means lack of lubrication in that pot though?

Noise did sound ominous, but I guess if the oil film between piston and bore had been taken out, the piston would be rattling around in the bore.

Not sure I'll be up for reassembling it and running it tonight. An early night seems a better option at the moment, but I can at least buzz out the LPG loom pretty easily and check that the injector signal is correctly looped through.

Kevin
Too bloody right - I am absolutely cream crackered, I can only imagine how you feel.  Oh, and I've done the maths for your return journey  :o  :o  :o  :o  :o, and fully understand yours and chrisgixer's comments about how you tend to hoof it everywhere on lpg.
« Last Edit: 01 March 2010, 11:19:35 by TheBoy »
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Re: Engine noise, terminal?
« Reply #41 on: 01 March 2010, 11:25:36 »

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That makes a lot of sense :y
It's a ray of hope, thinking about it.

1) It's not unheard of for Teilo's looms to be wrong. I recall someone else having one with a wiring error of some description.
We did leave the connectors on, rather than splice in, didn't we?  Sure we did, but my brain is suffering from a combination of late nights and your port collection ::)
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Kevin Wood

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Re: Engine noise, terminal?
« Reply #42 on: 01 March 2010, 11:32:04 »

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Too bloody right - I am absolutely cream crackered, I can only imagine how you feel.  Oh, and I've done the maths for your return journey  :o  :o  :o  :o  :o, and fully understand yours and chrisgixer's comments about how you tend to hoof it everywhere on lpg.

I went via Winchester too, for variety.  ::)

Fully expected a caning to bring a premature end of play to that tank of LPG but it still got me to work and was showing about 290 miles once I got here.

Kevin
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Re: Engine noise, terminal?
« Reply #43 on: 01 March 2010, 11:33:51 »

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That makes a lot of sense :y
It's a ray of hope, thinking about it.

1) It's not unheard of for Teilo's looms to be wrong. I recall someone else having one with a wiring error of some description.
We did leave the connectors on, rather than splice in, didn't we?  Sure we did, but my brain is suffering from a combination of late nights and your port collection ::)

Yep. Just used the piggy-back connectors so it will be a piece of cake to trace them back to the pins on the ECU, and check the loop through the ECU.

Kevin
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Re: Engine noise, terminal?
« Reply #44 on: 01 March 2010, 11:35:44 »

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That makes a lot of sense :y
It's a ray of hope, thinking about it.

1) It's not unheard of for Teilo's looms to be wrong. I recall someone else having one with a wiring error of some description.
We did leave the connectors on, rather than splice in, didn't we?  Sure we did, but my brain is suffering from a combination of late nights and your port collection ::)
we did use the lpg loom plugs, just plug and play in theory. The length of the loom wires to plugs means its difficult to get the plugs wrong and not notice, the way we did it. Must admit i'm quite happy to blame Tilo at this point.
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