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[JamesV6CDX]

Tonight I lifted the bonnet of my 3.2 with the engine running to top up screenwash.

I thought to myself "these LPG injectors are a little noisier than usual" - but didn't think anything of it, and carried on my way. I went to pick up the girlfriend, a 15 mile round trip, during which I had completely forgotton the noise, and was, shall we say, a little enthusiastic... 

Got home, and thought I'd have another listen.

Noticed there is definitely a rattle / fast tap, which increases with engine speed. Listened at the top end for lifters - all lifters sound OK. Noise more prominent with bonnet closed. More noticible in the lower rev range at idle, like something rattling at the same RPM as the engine....

Then I put my head under the car, with one hand on the throttle pedal. As I gently blip the throttle, there is a god awful noise coming from the engine sump area 

Sounded like something was well on it's way to letting go in the sump, so I've turned it off, come inside, and opened a stiff drink 

My obvservarions are -

Engine running fine
No knocking or noticable noise under load
Oil level fine
No oil pressure lights (including no flicker at idle)
Oil and fiilter changed by myself less than 800 miles ago, and has had three oil changes in the last 8k miles.

Aside of the fast rattle inside the sump, there also seems to be an intermittent metallic noise, also from the sump, like a "louder" tap.

Also seems worse when engine is hot. From cold, tonight, it sounded permissable, but definitely not once I'd been for a drive...

What do we think? Oil pump / chain? Or worse? 

[JamesV6CDX]

Also worth mentioning the timing belt kit was done 8k miles ago, by myself, using sykes pickavant settting kit and gen vaux cambelt kit, w pump and aux belt from Andyc. Am convinced it's not belt related...

[Entwood]

Listening to noises is notoriously difficult to pinpoint them .. an old fashioned trick is to rest a large, preferably wooden handled, screwdriver end against the block in various positions and rest your ear on the wooden handle, gently ....   noise travels much better through the screwdriver/wood to your ear and the area of the noise is much easier to discern. The type of noise is often easier as wel, as the surrounding noises are muffled by the fact of the screwdriver handle being in your ear .....!!

Sounds daft I know .. but seriously .. it does work ... 

[Psychoca]

Not a bolt worked out and dropped behind a pulley is it???

[JamesV6CDX]

Listening to noises is notoriously difficult to pinpoint them .. an old fashioned trick is to rest a large, preferably wooden handled, screwdriver end against the block in various positions and rest your ear on the wooden handle, gently ....   noise travels much better through the screwdriver/wood to your ear and the area of the noise is much easier to discern. The type of noise is often easier as wel, as the surrounding noises are muffled by the fact of the screwdriver handle being in your ear .....!!

Sounds daft I know .. but seriously .. it does work ... 

Hi Nige,

Don't think that's daft at all... I regularly do it

I have a (admittedly rather feminine ) mechanics stethoscope here.. can't hear anything through the cam covers / cambelt cover etc with it, but when pressed against the sump...   

Honestly sounds like something's going to let go, in the sump. I reckon it needs to at least come off for a good look, before it's started up again... 

[JamesV6CDX]

Not a bolt worked out and dropped behind a pulley is it???

All bolts intact....

[aaronjb]

Death rattle of the big ends?

Mine is starting to rattle like a bag of nails, too, I really should figure out where from.

[JamesV6CDX]

Death rattle of the big ends?

Mine is starting to rattle like a bag of nails, too, I really should figure out where from.

Would the big ends not be noisy under load, rather than at idle?

[aaronjb]

Depends how bad they are I suppose but yeah it usually starts under light load I believe. There's not a lot else at the bottom end of the engine to rattle, though

What about the flex plate as we've seen a couple of failures recently?

[JamesV6CDX]

Depends how bad they are I suppose but yeah it usually starts under light load I believe. There's not a lot else at the bottom end of the engine to rattle, though

What about the flex plate as we've seen a couple of failures recently?

Can't be sure obviously, but I don't think so....

I am wondering if it's the chain in the oil pump / oil pump itself?

[Vamps]

Big ends have a definate 'jingle' sound to them.....

I had a terrible developing knock, even had a 'drive in' oil change and they pointed out a noise in the sump, OK a 2.2 but turned out to be the water pump.................

[aaronjb]

I am wondering if it's the chain in the oil pump / oil pump itself?

Isn't the oil pump direct drive on the V6? It looks it from a quick google, anyway - i.e. the crank passes through the centre of one of the two gears.. not impossible for it to clatter but I'd have thought that by the time the gears were bad enough to clatter about you'd have no oil pressure left - tolerances are pretty tight, otherwise.

If it's something like that it'd be more likely to be the water pump, as Vamps suggests, I think.. hard to get the stethoscope on that without losing a finger, though!

[edit] The fact that you said it's knocking 'in time' with the engine, though.. literally one knock per piston power stroke, do you think?

[JamesV6CDX]

literally one knock per piston power stroke, do you think?

Yep!

[Seth]

Listening to noises is notoriously difficult to pinpoint them .. an old fashioned trick is to rest a large, preferably wooden handled, screwdriver end against the block in various positions and rest your ear on the wooden handle, gently ....   noise travels much better through the screwdriver/wood to your ear and the area of the noise is much easier to discern. The type of noise is often easier as wel, as the surrounding noises are muffled by the fact of the screwdriver handle being in your ear .....!!

Sounds daft I know .. but seriously .. it does work ... 

Hi Nige,

Don't think that's daft at all... I regularly do it

I have a (admittedly rather feminine ) mechanics stethoscope here.. can't hear anything through the cam covers / cambelt cover etc with it, but when pressed against the sump...   

Honestly sounds like something's going to let go, in the sump. I reckon it needs to at least come off for a good look, before it's started up again... 

Definately, and (obviously) take a really close look at the oil for metallic content.

[JamesV6CDX]

Listening to noises is notoriously difficult to pinpoint them .. an old fashioned trick is to rest a large, preferably wooden handled, screwdriver end against the block in various positions and rest your ear on the wooden handle, gently ....   noise travels much better through the screwdriver/wood to your ear and the area of the noise is much easier to discern. The type of noise is often easier as wel, as the surrounding noises are muffled by the fact of the screwdriver handle being in your ear .....!!

Sounds daft I know .. but seriously .. it does work ... 

Hi Nige,

Don't think that's daft at all... I regularly do it

I have a (admittedly rather feminine ) mechanics stethoscope here.. can't hear anything through the cam covers / cambelt cover etc with it, but when pressed against the sump...   

Honestly sounds like something's going to let go, in the sump. I reckon it needs to at least come off for a good look, before it's started up again... 

Definately, and (obviously) take a really close look at the oil for metallic content.