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[Andy B]

I saw an R63 for sale not that long ago. What a mental vehicle 

That said, the 320 CDI didn't ought to be too bad reliability wise. Were they all airmatic or can you get them on proper springs too?

I would imagine that Airmatic was one of a very long list of options .... certainly was on my R Class & ML

[Viral_Jim]

I didn't realise you'd had both Andy. How did the two compare?

[STEMO]

I saw an R63 for sale not that long ago. What a mental vehicle 

£39,000 was a bit out of my budget, but one of the rarest production cars on the planet

Only 200 ever made, in just one production year.

[Andy B]

I didn't realise you'd had both Andy. How did the two compare?

Very similar to drive though both are BIG cars .... can be a bugger to park at times.The ML350 is slightly faster 0 to 60, better on fuel & cheaper road tax due to having Adblue. Fingers crossed that it behaves as you fo hear of problems that cost a lot to sort out. I had problems with the turbo actuator on the R320 which seems to  a common Merc problem but haven't had need to do a thing to the ML .... yet.

[TheBoy]

That doesn't sound like the worst thing in the world, I would have thought used 'boxes aren't that rare either.

My Zaf B is the 1.6, so I figured the extra mass Vs the extra 20 horses would about even out. Plus, it's either me on my own in there, or it's full to the gunnels with family and stuff, and in that scenario, any speed over about 65 seems to trigger a loud whine from somewhere in the region of the back seat. 

Used boxes that aren't shagged are as common to find in breakers as Jaguar Ingenium 2 litre diesels without piston/valve intimacy...

And that includes other marques, such as Alfa, and everyone else using that chocolate box.


When they picked up my Zafira, the car transporter was full of Insignias and Astras about 8-10 years old, se did say all of them have faulty gearboxes


But sounds like you are edging towards the 1.8, which I think isn't a bad compromise of engines available.


When we looked at Zaf-B's last year, underneath every single one was rotten (and about 2/3rds of them had telltale signs of shagged gearboxes!), which surprised me, given how good the Zaf-A we had was in this respect.  The only corrosion protection I ever did to our Zaf-A was clean up the brake pipes and grease them up.  Here's hoping the Zaf-C is better in this regard.

[Doctor Gollum]

I saw an R63 for sale not that long ago. What a mental vehicle 

That said, the 320 CDI didn't ought to be too bad reliability wise. Were they all airmatic or can you get them on proper springs too?

I would imagine that Airmatic was one of a very long list of options .... certainly was on my R Class & ML

My R Class only had the rear, non adjustable Airmatic as per the W211/212 estate. Which freed up the option of reverting to rear springs when the rear airbags went south.

The R63 had a minimum of full Airmatic with adaptive shocks. Have to check the brochure, but ABC may have been an option 

Certainly, the standard car handled pretty robustly on springs.

[Andy B]

I saw an R63 for sale not that long ago. What a mental vehicle 

That said, the 320 CDI didn't ought to be too bad reliability wise. Were they all airmatic or can you get them on proper springs too?

I would imagine that Airmatic was one of a very long list of options .... certainly was on my R Class & ML

My R Class only had the rear, non adjustable Airmatic as per the W211/212 estate. Which freed up the option of reverting to rear springs when the rear airbags went south.

The R63 had a minimum of full Airmatic with adaptive shocks. Have to check the brochure, but ABC may have been an option 

Certainly, the standard car handled pretty robustly on springs.

I believe ALL R Class had air at the back irrespective of Airmatic ..... 6 or 7 people in a barge are heavy 
No idea about ABC 

[Viral_Jim]

Thanks Andy, that's useful insight.

I considered the R class as a replacement for both my car and the Zaf, but wasn't sure I could live with the looks of a Mk1 and didn't really have the budget for a facelift. 

When they picked up my Zafira, the car transporter was full of Insignias and Astras about 8-10 years old, se did say all of them have faulty gearboxes


But sounds like you are edging towards the 1.8, which I think isn't a bad compromise of engines available.


When we looked at Zaf-B's last year, underneath every single one was rotten (and about 2/3rds of them had telltale signs of shagged gearboxes!), which surprised me, given how good the Zaf-A we had was in this respect.  The only corrosion protection I ever did to our Zaf-A was clean up the brake pipes and grease them up.  Here's hoping the Zaf-C is better in this regard.

Hmm, perhaps less good news  . So are the 5 speed boxes on the N/A petrols more robust then? I've never had any issues with mine, but I'm aware thats a sample size of 1!

Mine certainly isn't rotten - yet. But I'd much rather not have the regular chore of cleaning it up. Also being able to sell it as a working example, rather than a £350 source of bean tins would be nice.

[LC0112G]

You make some excellent points.

The main thing I like about the current Zaf is it's simplicity and the fact that all the bits for it are so damn cheap.

There are a number of other things in the running: Grand voyager, ford Galaxy, R Class, Disco 3, or even one of those bonkers Japanese minivans but the expense of maintenance of all of those Vs the zaf is really off putting 

My Sister and family had one of these for about 10 years - they used to call it Ellie. They really liked it, but it became no end of trouble getting spares once Chrysler pulled out of the UK market. From memory they had to have the brake calipers replaced several times coz they seized - and it wasn't through lack of use. Eventually the auto gearbox started playing up - it would slip when in drive until the auto fluid had properly warmed up. Then eventually it wouldn't pull away at all. Second hand gearboxes basically rare as hens teeth, and a new gearbox would need to be imported from the USA.

So they gave it the last rites and it got trailer away in P/X for some Korean thing - can't remember what.

[Andy B]

My Dad has had a Grand Voyager for a good few years now .... used to ferry the dead from mortuary to Chapel of rest etc  lol .... He's never had any problems with his other than a failed ABS sensor.

[Viral_Jim]

I imagine the interior on them is going to be similar to my 300c ie spacious, comfy and a bit plasticky. In other words ideal for transporting family members young and old.

I am honestly trying to get away from having two cars, but the state of the Disco 5 after the last 6-up trip to France makes me feel like maybe keeping 'my own' car wouldn't be a bad idea  . I really don't give a toss about the state of the Zaf and I find that quite liberating, particularly when waving it off with some airport parking service, or leaving it in the station car park. Not sure I could be so blasé about £10k worth of Merc.

[Doctor Gollum]

I saw an R63 for sale not that long ago. What a mental vehicle 

That said, the 320 CDI didn't ought to be too bad reliability wise. Were they all airmatic or can you get them on proper springs too?

I would imagine that Airmatic was one of a very long list of options .... certainly was on my R Class & ML

My R Class only had the rear, non adjustable Airmatic as per the W211/212 estate. Which freed up the option of reverting to rear springs when the rear airbags went south.

The R63 had a minimum of full Airmatic with adaptive shocks. Have to check the brochure, but ABC may have been an option 

Certainly, the standard car handled pretty robustly on springs.

I believe ALL R Class had air at the back irrespective of Airmatic ..... 6 or 7 people in a barge are heavy 
No idea about ABC 

Nope, the 280/300cdi had springs all round regardless of wheelbase. Certainly in Euroland if not the UK. Full Airmatic was a V6 option and standard on the V8.

[Sir Tigger KC]

Why the issue with Merc air bags?   

[Nick W]

Why the issue with Merc air bags? 

Same as any other airbag, owners don't change them as soon as they start to leak which kills more expensive components as well.

[TheBoy]

Hmm, perhaps less good news  . So are the 5 speed boxes on the N/A petrols more robust then? I've never had any issues with mine, but I'm aware thats a sample size of 1!

Mine certainly isn't rotten - yet. But I'd much rather not have the regular chore of cleaning it up. Also being able to sell it as a working example, rather than a £350 source of bean tins would be nice.

I think it's a very specific issue to the M32 6 speed manual. If you go down that route, look on YouTube for how to spot a worn bearing issue on a m32 gearbox.

My Zaf-A was a 5 speed manual, which aside from a worn out gearstick pivot which I replaced a few years back, was a great little box - even with the abuse I gave it.