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[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

You're missing my point though Malc. They didn't have to lie, that's what I'm saying.

They could have come up with an acceptable version of the truth for the public and the ministers they sent out.

Requires some joined up thinking though - and I just don't think that was ever in Boris' playbook. He would rather just lie and dissemble rather than try work out a way to spin a plausible version of the truth.

Exactly. He needed a decent comms team.

As much as I despise the pair of them, if Tony Blair and Alastair Campbell had found themselves in the same situation, they would have skipped over the hurdles that have tripped Boris up. 

That I do agree with. Tony and his cronies did incalculable and permanent damage to this country on a huge scale, whereas Boris bullshitted everyone about mainly comparatively minor matters, because thats his default setting.
Tony and his cronies got away with all of it though, until the Iraq war finished his reputation.
He and his pals should have spent years behind bars for the things they did, but he became a global influencer and a squillionare instead.

[Sir Tigger KC]

You're missing my point though Malc. They didn't have to lie, that's what I'm saying.

They could have come up with an acceptable version of the truth for the public and the ministers they sent out.

Requires some joined up thinking though - and I just don't think that was ever in Boris' playbook. He would rather just lie and dissemble rather than try work out a way to spin a plausible version of the truth.

Exactly. He needed a decent comms team.

As much as I despise the pair of them, if Tony Blair and Alastair Campbell had found themselves in the same situation, they would have skipped over the hurdles that have tripped Boris up. 

That I do agree with. Tony and his cronies did incalculable and permanent damage to this country on a huge scale, whereas Boris bullshitted everyone about mainly comparatively minor matters, because thats his default setting.
Tony and his cronies got away with all of it though, until the Iraq war finished his reputation.
He and his pals should have spent years behind bars for the things they did, but he became a global influencer and a squillionare instead.

Even that didn't finish him off as he went on to win another majority at the 2005 election. 

I couldn't believe that at the time!       Still can't understand it. 

[STEMO]

Why does John Major's opinion seem to carry so much weight with the media? It's like he's some kind of elder statesman when, in the job, he was known as the grey man. He needs to shut his cakehole.

[Kevin Wood]

Why does John Major's opinion seem to carry so much weight with the media? It's like he's some kind of elder statesman when, in the job, he was known as the grey man. He needs to shut his cakehole.

I think he's got his eyes on claiming the "turd that won't flush" award from Blair.

[STEMO]

Why does John Major's opinion seem to carry so much weight with the media? It's like he's some kind of elder statesman when, in the job, he was known as the grey man. He needs to shut his cakehole.

I think he's got his eyes on claiming the "turd that won't flush" award from Blair.

That's a long term challenge, a few years yet before he even gets the nomination.

[STEMO]

I've had a bottle of wine, so I think we should have a war 

Normal service will resume tomorrow, unless I have another bottle of wine.

[Sir Tigger KC]

I've had a bottle of wine, so I think we should have a war 

Normal service will resume tomorrow, unless I have another bottle of wine.

Do it! We need some entertainment! 

Talking of turds, I started watching QT but quickly switched off when Alastair Campbell started maniacally ranting about Boris Johnson telling lies.   

What a colossal effing hypocrite! 

[Varche]

Thought you had given up the hooch?

[Varche]

Let's face it, no matter who gets in, of any political party, we, like the rest of the world, are f**ked. So called globalisation has made sure no country can self govern while they are dependent on imports from other countries.
We cannot feed ourselves, warm ourselves or drive about in our cars without the goods and services from abroad. And abroad is in a parlous state.

Not sure if thats globalisation or our own inherent stupidity.  We keep insisting on building massive new housing estates, solar farms and unneeded railways across our farmland, making our country unable to sustain itself without importing food and other goods....

you do know that Britain hasn't been self-sustaining for 200 years? When the population was about a fifth of today?

Everybody knows this Nick, but we could be a lot more self sufficient than we are.

Particularly in energy.

This is the bit I disagree with. The oil/gas that comes out of the ground is owned by Shell/Mobil/Exxon/Whoever, not the UK. Sure the govt gets to license and tax it's production, but they cannot ensure it is sold to the UK market, or even if it is, control the price. Well they could, but that would involve nationalizing it and running it as a state industry. Don't think even Corbyn proposed that.

It does reduce transport costs if the oil/gas is sold locally to where it's produced, but that isn't really a factor in the price of oil/gas. The UK produces about 8% of the oil/gas produced by Russia alone, and barely 1% of world production. There is no realistic possibility of increasing UK production to get anywhere close to being self sufficient - even if you did force the oil companies to sell to the UK only.

Nuclear is the only way out of this mess, but no-one wants a nuke power station in their own back yard.

Well the French want nuclear power in their back garden. They have just nationalised what little bit of EDF was  private and gone on a massive spending spree on nuclear and are going to keep cost of electric down. Maybe Boris2.0 can do the same?

[STEMO]

Thought you had given up the hooch?

It was for medicinal purposes, my brain was hurting. And since wifey is away at a conference......

[ronnyd]

Thought you had given up the hooch?

It was for medicinal purposes, my brain was hurting. And since wifey is away at a conference......

While the cat's away, the mouse gets pissed. 

[STEMO]

Thought you had given up the hooch?

It was for medicinal purposes, my brain was hurting. And since wifey is away at a conference......

While the cat's away, the mouse gets pissed. 

Squeak, squeak 

[ronnyd]

I'll have to start calling you Mickey. 

[STEMO]

I'll have to start calling you Mickey. 

Mickey Mouse=Scouse