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[TheBoy]

If the bottom and back of the scuttle drain leaks, due to additional holes, where does the water end up?

[Doctor Gollum]

If you mean a rusty bulkhead, then front passenger footwell...

[TheBoy]

If you mean a rusty bulkhead, then front passenger footwell...

Which would explain why the pollen filter feels reasonably dry.

Game over then.

[Doctor Gollum]

I indirectly know a Brackley resident who might be interested in TBE if that's the case

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

If you mean a rusty bulkhead, then front passenger footwell...

Which would explain why the pollen filter feels reasonably dry.

Game over then.

Not at all.Youve got a welder and probably know how to use it better than I can use mine.
I had almost the same problem a couple of weeks ago. Peeled the carpet back, ground the rust away and ended up with a 50p sized hole. Welded a little plate over it - job jobbed. 

[TheBoy]

If you mean a rusty bulkhead, then front passenger footwell...

Which would explain why the pollen filter feels reasonably dry.

Game over then.

Not at all.Youve got a welder and probably know how to use it better than I can use mine.
I had almost the same problem a couple of weeks ago. Peeled the carpet back, ground the rust away and ended up with a 50p sized hole. Welded a little plate over it - job jobbed. 

Ah, didn't think of attacking it from the inside.  I was looking at if I could get welder from outside, but no chance.

Thanks for the tip

[GastronomicKleptomaniac]

Drill it, seal it, grommet it.

[VXL V6]

If you jack up the front you can see where the water runs thorough where the inner wings meet the bulkhead on both sides., the passenger side also seems to rust through lower down to the left of the blower intake.

On the daily I just cleaned it up and painted it over with some epoxy mastic, my plan is to run the car over the winter / bad weather period then it'll be used for spare parts next summer.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

If you mean a rusty bulkhead, then front passenger footwell...

Which would explain why the pollen filter feels reasonably dry.

Game over then.

Not at all.Youve got a welder and probably know how to use it better than I can use mine.
I had almost the same problem a couple of weeks ago. Peeled the carpet back, ground the rust away and ended up with a 50p sized hole. Welded a little plate over it - job jobbed. 

Ah, didn't think of attacking it from the inside.  I was looking at if I could get welder from outside, but no chance.

Thanks for the tip

Not only is is a lot easier, it also saves you from setting fire to the carpets inside the car while your welding from the outside. 

[VXL V6]

Rusted through area from scuttle circled in red.

First prod of chassis rail circled in blue.



Main rust circled in red, point of leak into cabin and arch i believe is mainly x

As mentioned before I gave this area a clean and a coat of epoxy mastic based paint a year or so ago which stopped the leak into the cabin.

This is a 239K 18/19 year old car so I don't think I can complain, just going to use it over the winter period and then use it as a parts car to support the others.

[iansoutham]

TB, check back on one of my old threads, had wet foot wells and the sound padding on the bulkhead was dry.

Had rust at the joins with the bulkhead, chassis and inner wing. There are photos on there to show you what I had if it helps

[TheBoy]

I can see my hole. So now know what I need to do.

*HOW* I do it might be the issue.

[dave the builder]

there's a repair kit available  from your favourite online seller 

just match the colour in the drop down box to your paint code  star silver 3 

clicky

should*  arrive within the 6 month timescale 

*=probably not

[TheBoy]

there's a repair kit available  from your favourite online seller 

just match the colour in the drop down box to your paint code  star silver 3 

clicky

should*  arrive within the 6 month timescale 

*=probably not

I was looking for some duct tape yesterday (not for this ), seems I've run out

[TheBoy]

So, looking at DG's link from another thread - http://www.catcar.info/opel/?l=bWFya2E9PVZYfHxzdD09NTB8fG1vZGVsdHlwZT09Vjk0fHxtY29kZT09VlhNfHxsYW5nPT1HQnx8c3RzPT17IjEwIjoiXHUwNDFjXHUwNDNlXHUwNDM0XHUwNDM1XHUwNDNiXHUwNDRjIiwiMjAiOiJWYXV4aGFsbCAgT01FR0EtQiAoIDE5OTQgLSAgMjAwMykiLCIzMCI6IkEgQk9EWSBTSEVMTCBBTkQgUEFORUxTIiwiNDAiOiIgNCBEQVNIIEFORCBTQ1VUVExFIiwiNTAiOiIxLkRBU0ggUEFORUwifXx8c2NvZGU9PUF8fHNzY29kZT09IDR8fG1uY29kZT09MXx8c21uY29kZT09LTd8fGlrZXk9PTg%3D

I could just potentially weld a plate over the "steering column" hole in the bulkhead, where the metal is rust free, thicker*, and more accessible?



*I'm likely to blow holes in thin, knackered, old, inconsistent plate.

[Doctor Gollum]

That's probably going to require pulling the dash to move the heater intake. 

[TheBoy]

That's probably going to require pulling the dash to move the heater intake. 

OK, nearly to heater intake then.  High enough to keep the water doing through the drain, not the cabin

[STEMO]

I have a suggestion. Thrown the fickin old rustbucket in the bin 

[TheBoy]

I have a suggestion. Thrown the fickin old rustbucket in the bin 

Nobody has come up with a suitable replacement though.

[STEMO]

I have a suggestion. Thrown the fickin old rustbucket in the bin 

Nobody has come up with a suitable replacement though.

Yes they have, the jag. It doesn't fit every criteria exactly, but I doubt anything would.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

This is what I had a couple of weeks ago. Whats yours like (location / size) in comparison ?

[TheBoy]

Managed to dodge some showers to get a better pic, taken from inside the cabin...



The silver metal, arrowed in blue, is the car's shell, and this looks in mostly good condition, though it needs the sound deadening cut away a bit to inspect at the bottom.

There appears to be black sponge (top red arrow) sandwiched between bodyshell and the black rusty plate, and its sodden.  Half an hour with a hairdryer has done nothing to dry it.  Not sure if the red arrow at bottom is the same sponge or a bead of sealant or something. Feels harder.


So I need to knock out the black plate metal to get back to good metal, which I think I'm going to struggle on the left and the bottom, as I'm going to run out of room.  I also suspect the sponge/seal is going to act like an insulator, making non gas welding difficult.

I think this one might be beyond my limited welding capabilities.

[Nick W]

If you don't remove all of the sponge/seals/sealant/foam/rubber that's touching, or close to the weld area you WILL set it alight.


This is a bad thing, and you should check your household insurance before you try it.


It doesn't matter what weld process you use, as they all get the steel hot enough to melt which is about 1000°C

[TheBoy]

So as its seems the foam is sandwiched between the shell and the black plate, and not that accessible, I need to find another way to seal?

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

So its the black plate (partly visible in my pic above yours) which has rotted away ?
There is indeed a black rubber seal / sealant at the bottom, which you can see part of in my pic.
Need to cut that part and the spongey stuff out just to get rid of the flammable stuff first.
Still looks doable. Doesnt need to be pretty as it isnt seen, and I would squirt Tiger seal / Sikaflex around the join afterwards to ensure its watertight.
Nothing to lose by having a go, apart from the fact you will probably have a pretty painful back afterwards.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

A bucket full of wet rags is handy when doing a job like this. Stop welding regularly and check nothings burning. If something smoulders, chuck a wet rag over it.

[YZ250]

Not sure just how little space you have to work but I was going to suggest using a small wire spinner to get back to solid metal, tack a sacrificial bolt to a clean part of the same metal so that you can keep the earth clamp local to the panel. Rusty/painted metal is an arse to weld so it needs to be as good as you can get it. As Nick and Albs have said, fire is always a very real issue, even with the Mig sparks landing in the wrong place. I've been there with sound deadener and gas welder ..... don't ask. 
If you can plate it the best you can, is there any access to the other side to put chopped fibre over the finished article to avoid water traps between the panels.  When are you planning on tackling it, as I'm more than happy to pop over and help if I can ...... social distancing permitting. 

[Nick W]

So as its seems the foam is sandwiched between the shell and the black plate, and not that accessible, I need to find another way to seal?

Brushable seam sealer. Almost like it's made for the job......

[Doctor Gollum]

Black sponge is the factory bonding seal between the two panels.

The greay sound deadening should lift away once you have undone the clips. Which you won't get to without pulling the dash.

Or you could cut a couple of inches away from the area

As an aside, looking through your hole, the front of the firewall where the drain plug and loom* run through looks pretty crusty. So whatever you do os going to become very short lived 

*That particular loom runs forward along thee chassis rail to the plug underneath the battery tray.

[iansoutham]

Instead of welding, why not look at cleaning back to good metal and then using a good (3M) panel bonder to bond a plate into place on each side?

No heat to worry about that way.

Example eBay number 174394858784


Obviously you can buy cheaper than that, but as an example.

[TheBoy]

Toying with sikaflexing a plate over the hole, or trying to fibreglass over it. Or both.

In all cases, it needs to be dry, and I'm struggling on that, because even when its not raising, the air is so damp

[STEMO]

Toying with sikaflexing a plate over the hole, or trying to fibreglass over it. Or both.

In all cases, it needs to be dry, and I'm struggling on that, because even when its not raising, the air is so damp

Why don't you bite the bullet, tight arse, and give it to a professional to do.

[Nick W]

Toying with sikaflexing a plate over the hole, or trying to fibreglass over it. Or both.

In all cases, it needs to be dry, and I'm struggling on that, because even when its not raising, the air is so damp

Why don't you bite the bullet, tight arse, and give it to a professional to do.

He could buy a nice replacement car for what that will cost to fix.


It needs cutting back quite a lot further just to expose  the rest the of rot.

[STEMO]

Toying with sikaflexing a plate over the hole, or trying to fibreglass over it. Or both.

In all cases, it needs to be dry, and I'm struggling on that, because even when its not raising, the air is so damp

Why don't you bite the bullet, tight arse, and give it to a professional to do.

He could buy a nice replacement car for what that will cost to fix.


It needs cutting back quite a lot further just to expose  the rest the of rot.

I wasn't aware you charged so much, Nick. Sorry 

[Nick W]

That would be a very cheap job for me.


"scrap it.


You owe me a pint"

[dave the builder]

"scrap it.

 

it's an omega,
 they only rust between the front and rear number plates 

[ronnyd]

Is a pop riveted plate frowned upon in these circles? That's if you can get in there to do that. 

[Nick W]

Is a pop riveted plate frowned upon in these circles? That's if you can get in there to do that. 

Pop rivets aren't a structural repair.

[dave the builder]

decent panel bond is stronger than welding i've heard
I doubt there's room to get a rivet gun or self tappers in anyway 

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Toying with sikaflexing a plate over the hole, or trying to fibreglass over it. Or both.

In all cases, it needs to be dry, and I'm struggling on that, because even when its not raising, the air is so damp

Hot air gun to get it dry and warm before you do the job. If your basically replacing the black plate, Im pretty sure its sikaflexed in place to start with so no worries.

[TheBoy]

That black plate surely isn't structural?

[Doctor Gollum]

That black plate surely isn't structural?

It is.

Look at the shape of it. Has a massive box section across the top and is bolted to the A posts, effectively holding the front of the car together. It is also the foundation of the plate across the bottom of the windscreen.

It's a pity Omegod cba to pull the dash of that breaker as it's one part of the Omega that noone ever sees, yet is clearly becoming a problem area on many cars...

Understanding how it all goes together helps to fix it. Might keep a couple on the road a bit longer

[omegod]

That black plate surely isn't structural?

It is.

Look at the shape of it. Has a massive box section across the top and is bolted to the A posts, effectively holding the front of the car together. It is also the foundation of the plate across the bottom of the windscreen.

It's a pity Omegod cba to pull the dash of that breaker as it's one part of the Omega that noone ever sees, yet is clearly becoming a problem area on many cars...

Understanding how it all goes together helps to fix it. Might keep a couple on the road a bit longer

He definitely CBA  , anyone who want's the rolling shell can come and get it gratis. After breaking it it's probably the cleanest Omega front end I've ever seen 

[Doctor Gollum]

If someone has a space to put this/store the constituent parts, then I would be interested in doing the work to break it down.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

That black plate surely isn't structural?

It is.

Look at the shape of it. Has a massive box section across the top and is bolted to the A posts, effectively holding the front of the car together. It is also the foundation of the plate across the bottom of the windscreen.

It's a pity Omegod cba to pull the dash of that breaker as it's one part of the Omega that noone ever sees, yet is clearly becoming a problem area on many cars...

Understanding how it all goes together helps to fix it. Might keep a couple on the road a bit longer

Isnt the plate stuck on to the bulkhead with Sikaflex or similar ? 

[Doctor Gollum]

Panel bond/structural adhesive and bolts although how much and where is only a guess without one to look at...

It does clearly use a channel to locate the bottom edge.

[Doctor Gollum]

Looking at the Thatcham Method manual, it does in fact, form the bottom edge of the windscreen aperture.

Although the panel is listed, it doesn't include a time or method for replacement. Which suggests that if it is damaged by an accident that the car is fundamentally unrepairable as to distort it would mean damage that can only safely be repaired with a new shell. Which incidentally would require a new bulkhead assembly (the rusty part) as it isn't a part of the shell.

This manual is only for accident repair methods and costings, and primary external shell panels/crumple zones rather than the inner structure of the shell. Therefore it doesn't include corrosion repair which obviously falls into restoration territory...

Removing and refitting everything to access the panel is 41 hours assuming that the engine stays in. Plus another 24ish hours to remove it from a (complete) donor car.

[STEMO]

Looking at the Thatcham Method manual, it does in fact, form the bottom edge of the windscreen aperture.

Although the panel is listed, it doesn't include a time or method for replacement. Which suggests that if it is damaged by an accident that the car is fundamentally unrepairable as to distort it would mean damage that can only safely be repaired with a new shell. Which incidentally would require a new bulkhead assembly (the rusty part) as it isn't a part of the shell.

This manual is only for accident repair methods and costings, and primary external shell panels/crumple zones rather than the inner structure of the shell. Therefore it doesn't include corrosion repair which obviously falls into restoration territory...

Removing and refitting everything to access the panel is 41 hours assuming that the engine stays in. Plus another 24ish hours to remove it from a (complete) donor car.

Someone will be very busy