Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: terry paget on 14 August 2013, 11:35:49
-
X84GNB 2000 2,5 petrol manual
I am striving to change the RH exhaust manifold, following RobG and Haynes. I have to remove the oil pipes at the filter end. I have removed the paper filter, but the filter outer is still in the way. I feel it should unscrew, but it does not want to. How do I shift it?
-
sorry terry but do you mean the base of the filter,or the top casing of filter :-\
this may help http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90579.0
-
X84GNB 2000 2,5 petrol manual
I am striving to change the RH exhaust manifold, following RobG and Haynes. I have to remove the oil pipes at the filter end. I have removed the paper filter, but the filter outer is still in the way. I feel it should unscrew, but it does not want to. How do I shift it?
Isn't there a hex head or cap head bolt (for an Allen key) in the middle :-\
-
I used a rubber grip strap to grip the body and unscrewed it.
-
Its mounted on the block using a hollow bolt.
This is either a hex (allen key style) or a spline.
So its the correct fitting inside the centre of the housing and undo.
Dead easy (when you know how) :y
-
I have got the filter cap off with the filter. However, the body of the filter holder is still in place, and this obstructs my undoing the oil pipes. Having read the 'how to switch filters' I imagined the paper filter holder body should unscrew like a cartridge filter. However, using a strap wrench, I failed to turn it Thanks, Andy663. I gather you have managed it with a rubber strap. I see indentations in the filter holder suggesting there may be a special tool to unscrew it. Andy suggests that if I can get hold of it it should unscrew like a cartridge filter. Please confirm this is right.
-
I have got the filter cap off with the filter. However, the body of the filter holder is still in place, and this obstructs my undoing the oil pipes. Having read the 'how to switch filters' I imagined the paper filter holder body should unscrew like a cartridge filter. However, using a strap wrench, I failed to turn it Thanks, Andy663. I gather you have managed it with a rubber strap. I see indentations in the filter holder suggesting there may be a special tool to unscrew it. Andy suggests that if I can get hold of it it should unscrew like a cartridge filter. Please confirm this is right.
No. See Mark's post above :y
-
My 3.2 had a lug on the back of it preventing it from turning :y only option is to undo the centre bolt :y
-
Thank you gentlemen. My problem now is how to engage the hollow bolt. I have tried all my Allen section tools and they all seem too small. I have tried some long bolts with hexagon heads and they seem too big. I have not managed to see inside the bolt and confirm the hole is hexagonal. I am looking for more long bolts. If it is splined I am dead unless I can obtain the right tool.
-
Thank you gentlemen. My problem now is how to engage the hollow bolt. I have tried all my Allen section tools and they all seem too small. I have tried some long bolts with hexagon heads and they seem too big. I have not managed to see inside the bolt and confirm the hole is hexagonal. I am looking for more long bolts. If it is splined I am dead unless I can obtain the right tool.
LMGIFY ::) ::)
12mm Allen key it would seem.
http://oldsite.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1240078479/0
-
Wot e sed ;D
Sealey do a nice selection of hex/torx/spline bits with a 1/2" and 3/8" driver, about £30 :y
-
Mine was 12mm hex http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=113744.msg1434639#msg1434639 (http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=113744.msg1434639#msg1434639)
This problem seems like another argument in favour of converting to spin on.
Incidentally no one has bought my perfect condition oil filter body yet :'( Only £15 http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=114447.msg1444883#msg1444883 (http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=114447.msg1444883#msg1444883)
-
...
This problem seems like another argument in favour of converting to spin on.
.....
My thought are completely the opposite. Why struggle to remove what is already tried & tested? ::)
-
...
This problem seems like another argument in favour of converting to spin on.
.....
My thought are completely the opposite. Why struggle to remove what is already tried & tested? ::)
And the OP said...
X84GNB 2000 2,5 petrol manual
I am striving to change the RH exhaust manifold, following RobG and Haynes. I have to remove the oil pipes at the filter end. I have removed the paper filter, but the filter outer is still in the way.
-
Gentlemen, I thank you all for your help.I rushed out to Halfords and bought a 12mm hex socket, but the 1/2" body was too fat to go into the tunnel. I then found a set of long hexagons I bought years ago for Senator driveshafts, tried the 12 from that, and it would not go in. Tried the 10 and it went all the way in and did not engage. Could it be an 11? I ground the 12 down to about 11, and it engaged, but felt weak so I did not apply torque. Tomorrow I shall try to buy an 11mm long hexagon. Funny everyone is saying 12mm though. . .
-
It could not be a Torx, could it?
-
....
And the OP said...
X84GNB 2000 2,5 petrol manual
I am striving to change the RH exhaust manifold, following RobG and Haynes. I have to remove the oil pipes at the filter end. I have removed the paper filter, but the filter outer is still in the way.
I've never taken that much notice, but surely the back plate is common to both filter types? :-\ :-\
-
There are 2 fittings, 12mm hex and the other I believe is a torx
-
I've never taken that much notice, but surely the back plate is common to both filter types? :-\ :-\
Not sure what you mean by a back plate but there is no back component of significant size with either filter - the cannister bolts onto the engine body and the screw on screws on to a hollow stud in the engine body.
As I read it the OP needed to remove the ally canister that holds the paper filter to get access. If he had a spin on filter he would simply have spinned it off and had access. Now he has to remove the cannister cap, the filter, the retaining bolt and the cannister. The last two may be difficult -they are not expected to be done for the life of the engine in normal circumstances.
-
The last two may be difficult -they are not expected to be done for the life of the engine in normal circumstances.
You forget about dealer servicing ;D
-
...
Not sure what you mean by a back plate but there is no back component of significant size with either filter - the cannister bolts onto the engine body and the screw on screws on to a hollow stud in the engine body.
.......
You are quite correct :y :y ...... it must be the Senator I'm think of ie back plate taking oil to the air/oil cooler at the front of the car ::)
-
Gentlemen, I thank you all for your help.I rushed out to Halfords and bought a 12mm hex socket, but the 1/2" body was too fat to go into the tunnel. I then found a set of long hexagons I bought years ago for Senator driveshafts, tried the 12 from that, and it would not go in. Tried the 10 and it went all the way in and did not engage. Could it be an 11? I ground the 12 down to about 11, and it engaged, but felt weak so I did not apply torque. Tomorrow I shall try to buy an 11mm long hexagon. Funny everyone is saying 12mm though. . .
Mine was definitely 12mm hex actually 12.5mm measured with a vernier. OOF guide says it is either a 27mm socket or a 12mm hex drive http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90579.0 (http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90579.0).
-
My 3.2 had a lug on the back of it preventing it from turning :y only option is to undo the centre bolt :y
Unfortunately it didn't seem to stop mine turning as some Gorrilla did the cap up before, >:( just snapped off and turned. so had put the proper filter back on. :y ;D ;D
-
My 3.2 had a lug on the back of it preventing it from turning :y only option is to undo the centre bolt :y
Unfortunately it didn't seem to stop mine turning as some Gorrilla did the cap up before, >:( just snapped off and turned. so had put the proper filter back on. :y ;D ;D
Would you like another? I changed to a spin-on earlier this year, and had the canister knocking about ever since. Free if you collect!
-
My 3.2 had a lug on the back of it preventing it from turning :y only option is to undo the centre bolt :y
Unfortunately it didn't seem to stop mine turning as some Gorrilla did the cap up before, >:( just snapped off and turned. so had put the proper filter back on. :y ;D ;D
Would you like another? I changed to a spin-on earlier this year, and had the canister knocking about ever since. Free if you collect!
No thanks mate I have done the same as you and put spin on filter on. :y
-
No thanks mate I have done the same as you and put spin on filter on. :y
Right I'm going to bin my spare paper holding cartridge. It seems they are not as popular as I was led to believe ::) Anyone who replaces a stuck cartridge with the same must be a masochist. Spin on is the way to go! :y
-
There are 2 fittings, 12mm hex and the other I believe is a torx
Thanks. That makes sense. I reckon it's a T60. Trouble is, I need a long one to b get down the tube in the filter holder. I had the same problem with the hexagons. A 12mm hexagon in a 1/2" socket would not go in.
I rand Bellinger Grove, main Vx dealer, but no-one there knew. They think they have done it, but not recently, and could not remember what tool they used. Probably about half an inch, they said. Or 12mm.
Is there any correlation between Torx sizes and hexagon sizes? 12m and T60 sound related.
-
Is there any correlation between Torx sizes and hexagon sizes? 12m and T60 sound related.
They're close - T60 is 13.25mm: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torx#Sizing
-
I went to remove one today,and then discovered I don't have a 12mm hex,so couldn't remove it.I managed to remove the oil cooler pipes with it in place (just) ,but the engine is out of the car,which probably makes a lot of difference.
-
I got a cheap digital camera up there and took loads of photos until I got one showing me the "fixing" Also I had to cut down my allen key to length and put a spanner on it to undo.
HTH
-
Could smash the body off and change to spin on.
-
Could smash the body off and change to spin on.
Won't help if the OP doesn't have the tools to undo the bolt ::)
-
At least op could see what tools he needs ;)
-
At least op could see what tools he needs ;)
It's one or tother ::) if one is the wrong size, then it's tother one :y the guide is pretty clear...
Better than running the risk of cracking the block ::)
-
Thanks for all the help, chaps. I tried to photograph the centre of the tube, but it was hard to get illumination inside the tube. I am not clear how I could smash it off, access is so awkward.
I still reckon I need a long T60 Torx male tool. I could not get one today in Midsomer Norton, but Machine Mart in Bristol claim they have one. I shall buy it tomorrow and try it Saturday.
All this fuss just to change an exhaust manifold! I wondered if I could saw through the transfer pipe and replace it with a hose, but even that does not look easy. Has anyone tried that?
-
Terry, are the Swimming Baths in Midsomer Norton still open? If so, I'll take a trip down there and take a swim Saturday morning. I have T60 torx you could try if you want?
-
Try theses...
http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/Product.do?method=view&n=1650&p=37750&c=215&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=Base&utm_campaign=Hand%20Tools&gclid=CMLM9KCVgLkCFQTHtAodIx4Aqw (http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/Product.do?method=view&n=1650&p=37750&c=215&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=Base&utm_campaign=Hand%20Tools&gclid=CMLM9KCVgLkCFQTHtAodIx4Aqw)
If it's not a 27mm hollow bolt, this kit will have anything else it might be in it :y
-
Try theses...
http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/Product.do?method=view&n=1650&p=37750&c=215&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=Base&utm_campaign=Hand%20Tools&gclid=CMLM9KCVgLkCFQTHtAodIx4Aqw (http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/Product.do?method=view&n=1650&p=37750&c=215&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=Base&utm_campaign=Hand%20Tools&gclid=CMLM9KCVgLkCFQTHtAodIx4Aqw)
If it's not a 27mm hollow bolt, this kit will have anything else it might be in it :y
Wow thats cheap I might get myself one. :y
-
Terry, are the Swimming Baths in Midsomer Norton still open? If so, I'll take a trip down there and take a swim Saturday morning. I have T60 torx you could try if you want?
Yes, the pool is still there. Don't know the opening hours, though. Must be on the web somewhere.
Thanks for the offer. Is your T60 75mm or longer? It needs to be to engage in the tube. I bought a 12mm hexagon with a 1/2" socket end, but it was too big to go in.
-
Try theses...
http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/Product.do?method=view&n=1650&p=37750&c=215&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=Base&utm_campaign=Hand%20Tools&gclid=CMLM9KCVgLkCFQTHtAodIx4Aqw (http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/Product.do?method=view&n=1650&p=37750&c=215&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=Base&utm_campaign=Hand%20Tools&gclid=CMLM9KCVgLkCFQTHtAodIx4Aqw)
If it's not a 27mm hollow bolt, this kit will have anything else it might be in it :y
As Kevin says, it's jolly cheap and exactly what I want. The Machine Mart kit included many bits I already have or would never use. Thanks for the tip.
-
Terry, are the Swimming Baths in Midsomer Norton still open? If so, I'll take a trip down there and take a swim Saturday morning. I have T60 torx you could try if you want?
Yes, the pool is still there. Don't know the opening hours, though. Must be on the web somewhere.
Thanks for the offer. Is your T60 75mm or longer? It needs to be to engage in the tube. I bought a 12mm hexagon with a 1/2" socket end, but it was too big to go in.
I have Torx bits which fit into a standard screwdriver type tool, of which you can attach a spanner/socket to the end. Coupled to many different sized extensions, it shouldn't be a problem.
-
I also have a set of male torx drivers - Look like screwdrivers but with Torx ends. If additional torque is required, a set of mole grips on the handle should provide all that's needed.
-
At least op could see what tools he needs ;)
It's one or tother ::) if one is the wrong size, then it's tother one :y the guide is pretty clear...
Better than running the risk of cracking the block ::)
Would have thought thats extremely unlikely ;D ;D ;D ;D
The guide says 12mm hex or 27mm socket - there's also talk now of a T60 torx.
-
I also have a set of male torx drivers - Look like screwdrivers but with Torx ends. If additional torque is required, a set of mole grips on the handle should provide all that's needed.
Thanks. I have a screwdriver kit with torx bits. I have Tork sockets, but they only go up to T50. Halfords will sell me a T60 socket, but it is a 1/2" socket, so it will not go into the tube. The tube at the bottom of the ally can is almost as small as the 12mm hexagon, so the actual hexagon or Torx tool has to be long enough to go down the tube to reach the internal hexagon or Torx female. Ex Taxi Al's box of Sealey bits looks good, 75mm long bits. I can get a 24" breaker bar on one of those, with some hope of breaking the Loctite grip on this wretched tube.
If you are out this way Saturday i should love to see you. However, I think I shall order the Sealey kit tonight, it looks like my best hope of removing the tube.
-
Can't wait to see a pic of this please put one up when you're done. It seems the guide may need updating, all very mysterious. Looking at mine (2.6 V6) the hex female is immediately at the top of the bolt, although the bolt is hollow there is no need to insert the 12mm hex key more than 10mm into it, in fact I don't think you can.
I can see why the female hex socket might look like a torx if you can't see it clearly, the hex corners are depressed a little for some reason so its not a pure hex but not nearly as much as a torx.
-
Can't wait to see a pic of this please put one up when you're done. It seems the guide may need updating, all very mysterious. Looking at mine (2.6 V6) the hex female is immediately at the top of the bolt, although the bolt is hollow there is no need to insert the 12mm hex key more than 10mm into it, in fact I don't think you can.
I can see why the female hex socket might look like a torx if you can't see it clearly, the hex corners are depressed a little for some reason so its not a pure hex but not nearly as much as a torx.
As I probably have said before, pushing in a long 12mm hex driver it went in about 50mm then would go in no further; a 10mm hex went all the way in; grinding down the 12 to roughly 11mm it then went in some way, then engaged in something, presumably half way along the tube. I did not exert torque, but took advice. The Boy says there was a Torx option. I hope it is a T60. Time will tell. I will report and photograph when I have news. The female hex or Torx does not seem to be at the outer end.
-
surely there is something odd about :yall this I suggested smashing the body so that the inside was visible. Isnt there anybody in that area that can give this chap some help or advice. :y
-
The bolt is only an inch and a half long at most :-\
Cannot for the life of me understand how a 12mm allen key goes in 50mm, whilst an 11mm one stops at 25mm :-\
Have you tried a 27mm socket?
surely there is something odd about :yall this I suggested smashing the body so that the inside was visible. Isnt there anybody in that area that can give this chap some help or advice. :y
Have the last four pages been discussing the price of milk and cabbages then? ::)
-
The bolt is only an inch and a half long at most :-\
Cannot for the life of me understand how a 12mm allen key goes in 50mm, whilst an 11mm one stops at 25mm :-\
Have you tried a 27mm socket?
surely there is something odd about :yall this I suggested smashing the body so that the inside was visible. Isnt there anybody in that area that can give this chap some help or advice. :y
Have the last four pages been discussing the price of milk and cabbages then? ::)
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
-
I know all posts are trying to help but I just thought that there might be somebody local that could cast an eye over the problem,
-
I know all posts are trying to help but I just thought that there might be somebody local that could cast an eye over the problem,
Terry, are the Swimming Baths in Midsomer Norton still open? If so, I'll take a trip down there and take a swim Saturday morning. I have T60 torx you could try if you want?
:-\ :-\ :-\
-
Sorry about that forgot about your post Hope you can solve the problem. :y
-
crying out load its a torx inside the center--think its 60tx---its that simple--got 5x complete ones here--coffee table surplus
all this hassle-I could have driven there and done by now :y
-
Some are torx,some are hex. ;)
-
cant wait to hear the final result hope to change mine at some ti time :y
-
Maybe this photo will help you. All you need to do is to loose that bolt shown on picture. Size 24 or 27...?
(http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/8840/y6yr.jpg)
-
Maybe this photo will help you. All you need to do is to loose that bolt shown on picture. Size 24 or 27...?
(http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/8840/y6yr.jpg)
Gosh! Now I see the hexagon. Thanks.
-
The one on my 3.2 engine is different to that. No 24/27 bolt. Obviously slight variations in design along the way.
-
It is possible. I have seen HEX bolt holding oil filter body. On 2.6 V6 Vectra engine
-
Gosh! Now I see the hexagon. Thanks.
No that's not what we have been calling a hexagon ::). That is a bolt head as written in the description and is a male fitting. Requires a socket (female) to undo. A hex fitting is a female fitting i.e. with the hex inside and undone by a male hex (allen) key. Apparently there are three fittings, bolt head as shown, hex like I have and torx which I have never seen, presumably a female torx requiring a male torx to undo.
-
Gosh! Now I see the hexagon. Thanks.
No that's not what we have been calling a hexagon ::). That is a bolt head as written in the description and is a male fitting. Requires a socket (female) to undo. A hex fitting is a female fitting i.e. with the hex inside and undone by a male hex (allen) key. Apparently there are three fittings, bolt head as shown, hex like I have and torx which I have never seen, presumably a female torx requiring a male torx to undo.
Said that 3 days ago - Doh ::)
-
Said that 3 days ago - Doh ::)
Nobody listens to you though ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
Said that 3 days ago - Doh ::)
Nobody listens to you though ;D ;D ;D ;D
No you don't listen to anybody, as you know it all ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
Can't argue with a Jedi.
::)
-
Success! Thanks to all. The T60 long Torx arrived today in an excellent set of Torx, spline and hexagon tools, none of which fitted. I then felt inside, and found an external hexagon, or bolt. A 27mm socket fitted a treat, and off it came. Pictures may follow, if I can master dropbox. I cannot get off the crank sensor, as you may see, because the lead is trapped behind the RH oil pipe.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/6w1tox5n6c5qav1/DSCF2256.jpg)
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/siwh36q8s6hsn4e/DSCF2260.jpg)
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/16iilkne95c7m7w/DSCF2262.jpg)
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/pnkk8eh49htj9y7/DSCF2263.jpg)
-
Older and wiser people might say different, but if you're changing the crank sensor anyways, just cut the wire :y
-
Older and wiser people might say different, but if you're changing the crank sensor anyways, just cut the wire :y
That had occurred to me However, the crank sensor is OK, and on 2.5s they are fussy, so the maintenance guide says, and it is essential to buy the right (Siemens) one. I think when I remove the oil pipes I can get the crank sensor out and relocate the cable when I reassemble.
I have clearly failed to post pictures. Dropbox proved tricky before, and is doing so again. Any advice gratefully received.
-
Pics might appear here.
<br></br><img alt="" src="https://www.dropbox.com/s/6w1tox5n6c5qav1/DSCF2256.jpg"></img>
<br></br><img alt="" https://www.dropbox.com/s/siwh36q8s6hsn4e/DSCF2260.jpg"></img>
<br></br><img alt="" src="https://www.dropbox.com/s/16iilkne95c7m7w/DSCF2262.jpg"></img>
<br></br><img alt="" src="https://www.dropbox.com/s/pnkk8eh49htj9y7/DSCF2263.jpg"></img>
<br></br>
-
Pics might appear here.
(https://photos-5.dropbox.com/t/0/AABryk_R1efi_EeqDmKIPKfivWOHK3c6G9_C-8HqWIQ9gQ/12/130003580/jpeg/1024x768/3/1376949600/0/2/DSCF2256.jpg/Ia33XQdhaqRwa7QQjFjVG7YqBexMjx76Z0pZVy63IYY)
(https://photos-5.dropbox.com/t/0/AACgb_5L05es7UoXvhpQfX1Hk9BeJZYdrO6QMdk8S8Bcwg/12/130003580/jpeg/1024x768/3/1376949600/0/2/DSCF2260.jpg/wbEZwMhY71CfmDBKLDAV9ujbKkcBTSt3i0H50iTHg6Q)
(https://photos-4.dropbox.com/t/0/AAAJSWMCAzMGQY3FzCRuDHAbXjnqklnuGRzGq9tqN5SkMQ/12/130003580/jpeg/1024x768/3/1376949600/0/2/DSCF2262.jpg/bf6swRz6pMINLtO_iaoTzTMTLmHJ0yR-QzIDY1bqdBw)
(https://photos-3.dropbox.com/t/0/AAA5jjNHlTjsGBMTz5igEZcLCgDHomyj8jQpueZuPS7AFw/12/130003580/jpeg/1024x768/3/1376949600/0/2/DSCF2263.jpg/momxNiN81WMVwL2IBomZO4Xn2wSqfJdnf50_DwXMMNc)
-
Success! Thanks to all. .....
Which just goes to show the importance of cleaning as you go ..... you'd have spotted that days ago if you'd had an oily rag to hand ::) ::) ::)