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[Sir Tigger KC]

Said Donald Trump yesterday of Sadiq Khan, London's supposed mayor after he branded him a fascist. 

The Donald certainly has a way with words and he's not afraid to use them! 

But is it acceptable for the mayor of London to call the President of the United States of America a fascist?   

It seems quite fashionable these days for the lefties to call people who don't go along with their views fascist, racist etc, and I often wonder if they, especially the so called millennial types even know what it means... 

[Varche]

Oh for a return to the days of diplomacy.

I.e. things are said behind closed doors. E.g. use a different 5G supplier or we won’t share intel or stop polluting the planet so much. Then have a smiley photo call after.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

What little tin Khan said was beyond disgusting. Particularly at a time when both countries are commemorating the millions of lives they lost in the fight against real fascism.
Like Corbyn, he isn't fit for public office. They are stuck at a level of 6th form debating society or protest, and are incapable of anything better or more adult.
Obama told us we would be sent to the back of the queue if we had the audacity to vote the wrong way, but the liberal luvvies think of him as some kind of god, despite the fact he was a complete non entity of a President for both his terms in office.
Trump declares his love for this country from the rooftops, but they accuse him of being as bad as Hitler.
If we were attacked by a foreign power much bigger than us, where is the first place they would look to for help ? 

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

....I believe Trump also called Khan a 'shortarse'......

[Lizzie Zoom]

What little tin Khan said was beyond disgusting. Particularly at a time when both countries are commemorating the millions of lives they lost in the fight against real fascism.
Like Corbyn, he isn't fit for public office. They are stuck at a level of 6th form debating society or protest, and are incapable of anything better or more adult.
Obama told us we would be sent to the back of the queue if we had the audacity to vote the wrong way, but the liberal luvvies think of him as some kind of god, despite the fact he was a complete non entity of a President for both his terms in office.
Trump declares his love for this country from the rooftops, but they accuse him of being as bad as Hitler.
If we were attacked by a foreign power much bigger than us, where is the first place they would look to for help ?

Yes indeed!  I was not sure of Trump before but now I love him and wish he could take control of our British politicians and shake the whole bloody thing up!

What Trump has been saying is what he believes and is certainly in retaliation of what our little London Mayor has said, so, as the democratically elected President of the United States of America, he is entitled to say it! He is showing his power and fears no one; if only he had been around in the 1930's, he would have fairly shattered the false diplomacy of that age and revealed the truth!

Now he is shattering the false diplomacy around the World

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

What little tin Khan said was beyond disgusting. Particularly at a time when both countries are commemorating the millions of lives they lost in the fight against real fascism.
Like Corbyn, he isn't fit for public office. They are stuck at a level of 6th form debating society or protest, and are incapable of anything better or more adult.
Obama told us we would be sent to the back of the queue if we had the audacity to vote the wrong way, but the liberal luvvies think of him as some kind of god, despite the fact he was a complete non entity of a President for both his terms in office.
Trump declares his love for this country from the rooftops, but they accuse him of being as bad as Hitler.
If we were attacked by a foreign power much bigger than us, where is the first place they would look to for help ?

Yes indeed!  I was not sure of Trump before but now I love him and wish he could take control of our British politicians and shake the whole bloody thing up!

What Trump has been saying is what he believes and is certainly in retaliation of what our little London Mayor has said, so, as the democratically elected President of the United States of America, he is entitled to say it! He is showing his power and fears no one; if only he had been around in the 1930's, he would have fairly shattered the false diplomacy of that age and revealed the truth!

Now he is shattering the false diplomacy around the World

As a woman do you find 'The Donald' sexy, Lizzie?......

[Lizzie Zoom]

What little tin Khan said was beyond disgusting. Particularly at a time when both countries are commemorating the millions of lives they lost in the fight against real fascism.
Like Corbyn, he isn't fit for public office. They are stuck at a level of 6th form debating society or protest, and are incapable of anything better or more adult.
Obama told us we would be sent to the back of the queue if we had the audacity to vote the wrong way, but the liberal luvvies think of him as some kind of god, despite the fact he was a complete non entity of a President for both his terms in office.
Trump declares his love for this country from the rooftops, but they accuse him of being as bad as Hitler.
If we were attacked by a foreign power much bigger than us, where is the first place they would look to for help ?

Yes indeed!  I was not sure of Trump before but now I love him and wish he could take control of our British politicians and shake the whole bloody thing up!

What Trump has been saying is what he believes and is certainly in retaliation of what our little London Mayor has said, so, as the democratically elected President of the United States of America, he is entitled to say it! He is showing his power and fears no one; if only he had been around in the 1930's, he would have fairly shattered the false diplomacy of that age and revealed the truth!

Now he is shattering the false diplomacy around the World

As a woman do you find 'The Donald' sexy, Lizzie?......

In a strange way Opti, yes.  He certainly has his faults when it comes to women, but I personally love men with power and strength of character with a certain magnetism surrounding them.

I am aware though that many women thought that about Hitler!!

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

What little tin Khan said was beyond disgusting. Particularly at a time when both countries are commemorating the millions of lives they lost in the fight against real fascism.
Like Corbyn, he isn't fit for public office. They are stuck at a level of 6th form debating society or protest, and are incapable of anything better or more adult.
Obama told us we would be sent to the back of the queue if we had the audacity to vote the wrong way, but the liberal luvvies think of him as some kind of god, despite the fact he was a complete non entity of a President for both his terms in office.
Trump declares his love for this country from the rooftops, but they accuse him of being as bad as Hitler.
If we were attacked by a foreign power much bigger than us, where is the first place they would look to for help ?

Yes indeed!  I was not sure of Trump before but now I love him and wish he could take control of our British politicians and shake the whole bloody thing up!

What Trump has been saying is what he believes and is certainly in retaliation of what our little London Mayor has said, so, as the democratically elected President of the United States of America, he is entitled to say it! He is showing his power and fears no one; if only he had been around in the 1930's, he would have fairly shattered the false diplomacy of that age and revealed the truth!

Now he is shattering the false diplomacy around the World

As a woman do you find 'The Donald' sexy, Lizzie?......

In a strange way Opti, yes.  He certainly has his faults when it comes to women, but I personally love men with power and strength of character with a certain magnetism surrounding them.

I am aware though that many women thought that about Hitler!!

I think the reality of an unclothed Donald Trump would soon burst that bubble........

[Raeturbo]

That little bast#rd Khan and Red Corbyn should be burned at the stake in my opinion together preferably

[Lizzie Zoom]

What little tin Khan said was beyond disgusting. Particularly at a time when both countries are commemorating the millions of lives they lost in the fight against real fascism.
Like Corbyn, he isn't fit for public office. They are stuck at a level of 6th form debating society or protest, and are incapable of anything better or more adult.
Obama told us we would be sent to the back of the queue if we had the audacity to vote the wrong way, but the liberal luvvies think of him as some kind of god, despite the fact he was a complete non entity of a President for both his terms in office.
Trump declares his love for this country from the rooftops, but they accuse him of being as bad as Hitler.
If we were attacked by a foreign power much bigger than us, where is the first place they would look to for help ?

Yes indeed!  I was not sure of Trump before but now I love him and wish he could take control of our British politicians and shake the whole bloody thing up!

What Trump has been saying is what he believes and is certainly in retaliation of what our little London Mayor has said, so, as the democratically elected President of the United States of America, he is entitled to say it! He is showing his power and fears no one; if only he had been around in the 1930's, he would have fairly shattered the false diplomacy of that age and revealed the truth!

Now he is shattering the false diplomacy around the World

As a woman do you find 'The Donald' sexy, Lizzie?......

In a strange way Opti, yes.  He certainly has his faults when it comes to women, but I personally love men with power and strength of character with a certain magnetism surrounding them.

I am aware though that many women thought that about Hitler!!

I think the reality of an unclothed Donald Trump would soon burst that bubble........

For us women it is not all about the body Opti; the intellect, strength of character and power, with wealth, is THE attraction.

[Raeturbo]

Corbyn=Antichrist

[Sir Tigger KC]

That little bast#rd Khan and Red Corbyn should be burned at the stake in my opinion together preferably

Corbyn=Antichrist

These don't seem like typical views from the Red Rhondda Valleys to me!       

[Raeturbo]

You know me better ha ha 

[Raeturbo]

When you coming back?

[Sir Tigger KC]

When you coming back?

Here now. Went past your place the other day and saw your Evo. 

Looks nice! 

[Raeturbo]

Volvo?

[Sir Tigger KC]

Volvo?

Yep Golvo the Volvo! 

[Raeturbo]

 

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Trump spilled the beans about Corbyn during the press conference. Despite his virtue signalling by denouncing Trumps state visit and refusing to attend the dinner with him last night, Corbyn requested to meet him away from the glare of publicity.
Trump told him to far cough. 
The man is a pathetic disgrace and an embarrassment. 

[Kevin Wood]

Trump spilled the beans about Corbyn during the press conference. Despite his virtue signalling by denouncing Trumps state visit and refusing to attend the dinner with him last night, Corbyn requested to meet him away from the glare of publicity.
Trump told him to far cough. 
The man is a pathetic disgrace and an embarrassment. 

 

[Raeturbo]

Trump spilled the beans about Corbyn during the press conference. Despite his virtue signalling by denouncing Trumps state visit and refusing to attend the dinner with him last night, Corbyn requested to meet him away from the glare of publicity.
Trump told him to far cough. 
The man is a pathetic disgrace and an embarrassment. 

               And that’s his good points!

[Lizzie Zoom]

Trump spilled the beans about Corbyn during the press conference. Despite his virtue signalling by denouncing Trumps state visit and refusing to attend the dinner with him last night, Corbyn requested to meet him away from the glare of publicity.
Trump told him to far cough. 
The man is a pathetic disgrace and an embarrassment. 

..................and then to make it worse, attended a mass rally of people who do not understand how our democracy has, and still is, protected by the USA and gives them the possibility of speaking out in public.  They should go and live in China were they are today banning any demonstrations on the 30th anniversary of Tiananmen Square!  That is THE difference of people whose democracy is protected by the USA and Trump and those that are not in the likes of China!!

Corbyn can never be PM as he is just a joke, and not a funny one!!

[Nick W]

Trump spilled the beans about Corbyn during the press conference. Despite his virtue signalling by denouncing Trumps state visit and refusing to attend the dinner with him last night, Corbyn requested to meet him away from the glare of publicity.
Trump told him to far cough. 
The man is a pathetic disgrace and an embarrassment. 

               And that’s his good points!

Trump or Corbyn?


Neither are up to much.

[New POD]

America, (Americans) voted for the President it (they) deserve. 

(Can be attributed to a certain Canadian Female Stand up Comic)

You can take that any way you like.

In the same way that London(ers) has (have) always voted for the Major it(they) deserve.   

Out of interest, did you know that there are less people living in the UK (of all nationalities) than there are without access to ANY health care at all in the USA?  That Donald thinks he shouldn't fix this before twittering shite, kind of proves what a heartless bastard he is. Don't you think? It's OOF so probably not.

[New POD]

Trump spilled the beans about Corbyn during the press conference. Despite his virtue signalling by denouncing Trumps state visit and refusing to attend the dinner with him last night, Corbyn requested to meet him away from the glare of publicity.
Trump told him to far cough. 
The man is a pathetic disgrace and an embarrassment. 

               And that’s his good points!

Trump or Corbyn?


Neither are up to much.

Are there any politicians who are up to much? 

[Sir Tigger KC]

Are there any politicians who are up to much?

I think you'll find that politicians get up to all sorts!     

[Varche]

America, (Americans) voted for the President it (they) deserve. 

(Can be attributed to a certain Canadian Female Stand up Comic)

You can take that any way you like.

In the same way that London(ers) has (have) always voted for the Major it(they) deserve.   

Out of interest, did you know that there are less people living in the UK (of all nationalities) than there are without access to ANY health care at all in the USA?  That Donald thinks he shouldn't fix this before twittering shite, kind of proves what a heartless bastard he is. Don't you think? It's OOF so probably not.

That is an amazing statistic.

Regardless of your thoughts on the way the NHS is run, I cannot see the British public allowing The USA into the NHS as part of a trade deal. That is my gut feeling. Might be academic though as parliament get the last say not the people as we now know.

[Sir Tigger KC]

I think there is a lot of hysteria about the USA, a possible trade deal and the NHS. 

What makes people think that the US government can force the UK to privatise the NHS?    It would be electoral suicide for any party. 

What is wrong with allowing US healthcare companies to tender for contracts that the NHS sub out as long as the NHS retain overall control? 

When the EU were negotiating TTIP with the USA, do people think that the EU (or UK) had ring fenced the NHS? 

If we stay in the EU, what happens when the EU inevitably decide to have a single healthcare policy across the EU?    I doubt many EU countries would be too keen to replicate our state monopoly. 

While I think that there are justified concerns about US Big Pharma putting pressure on for the NHS to abandon it's pricing policy for drugs so that they can charge more, all this talk about Britain having to flog off the NHS as the price for a trade deal is complete and utter 'dangle berries' IMO. 

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

I completely agree. Its project fear chapter 462.
However, the EU has stated that over the next decade healthcare across the EU will be standardised. If anything could kill off our national religion (aka the NHS) that would be it.

[Doctor Gollum]

America, (Americans) voted for the President it (they) deserve. 

(Can be attributed to a certain Canadian Female Stand up Comic)

You can take that any way you like.

In the same way that London(ers) has (have) always voted for the Major it(they) deserve.   

Out of interest, did you know that there are less people living in the UK (of all nationalities) than there are without access to ANY health care at all in the USA?  That Donald thinks he shouldn't fix this before twittering shite, kind of proves what a heartless bastard he is. Don't you think? It's OOF so probably not.

Last time anyone looked, the US was not a Socialist State and nor does it pretend to be...

They have a welfare system, it's simply different to ours and everyone is supported upto the age of 18, after that, you are reasonably expected to stand on your own two feet. Also, no one is denied medical treatment, it's simply that it has to be paid for at some point and the more you can afford the better that treatment is likely to be. The better your health insurance the less you will be charged... Hardly ground breaking stuff.

You have to understand how the US is structured in order to understand how it functions, for example several states don't levy income tax, yet are amongst the best places to live in terms of services provided and quality of life whilst some of the most heavily taxed states are either amongst the smallest (ie Connecticut) or poorest (usually very badly managed as well ie Michigan).

Everything that gets taken for granted in the UK is funded by our taxes, whether it's the NHS or social housing for pregnant teens. It's still not actually free by any definition 

Being a yellow livered lefty millennial, it comes as no surprise that you don't like President Trump or what he represents. I would go as far as to say it scares the bejesus out of you probably because you expect everything to be provided for you rather than having to actually bear the responsibility yourself.

Incidentally, American citizens privately contributed more foreign aid than their government, but you won't read that in the Guardian. Nor will you be told that some of the most philanthropic people on the planet are actually a) American and b) self made 'capitalist pigs' *

No wonder so many people hate what Trump represents... 

*to coin a Socialist phrase.

I would suggest that you obtain and read Everyday Millionaires by Chris Hogan. It's also available as an audio book if reading isn't your 'thing'.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

A trade deal with the former British colonies is the work of a moment.

1......The USA lay down their demands.

2......We agree with them 100%......job done.

It will not be a negotiation of equals.  We will be so desperate to get a deal will will do as we are told. 

[STEMO]

A trade deal with the former British colonies is the work of a moment.

1......The USA lay down their demands.

2......We agree with them 100%......job done.

It will not be a negotiation of equals.  We will be so desperate to get a deal will will do as we are told.

There's a small matter to sort out before we do a trade deal with anyone. 

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

A trade deal with the former British colonies is the work of a moment.

1......The USA lay down their demands.

2......We agree with them 100%......job done.

It will not be a negotiation of equals.  We will be so desperate to get a deal will will do as we are told.

There's a small matter to sort out before we do a trade deal with anyone. 

Not for you.......as you left the EU on the 29th March if I'm not mistaken.

[STEMO]

A trade deal with the former British colonies is the work of a moment.

1......The USA lay down their demands.

2......We agree with them 100%......job done.

It will not be a negotiation of equals.  We will be so desperate to get a deal will will do as we are told.

There's a small matter to sort out before we do a trade deal with anyone. 

Not for you.......as you left the EU on the 29th March if I'm not mistaken.

Correct. It doesn't seem to have made much difference to my life. I'm still the same happy go lucky chap I always was. 

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

A trade deal with the former British colonies is the work of a moment.

1......The USA lay down their demands.

2......We agree with them 100%......job done.

It will not be a negotiation of equals.  We will be so desperate to get a deal will will do as we are told.

There's a small matter to sort out before we do a trade deal with anyone. 

Not for you.......as you left the EU on the 29th March if I'm not mistaken.

Correct. It doesn't seem to have made much difference to my life. I'm still the same happy go lucky chap I always was. 

Is it just you who has left the EU or is it all of Barnsley?......I get very confused.

[Lizzie Zoom]

America, (Americans) voted for the President it (they) deserve. 

(Can be attributed to a certain Canadian Female Stand up Comic)

You can take that any way you like.

In the same way that London(ers) has (have) always voted for the Major it(they) deserve.   

Out of interest, did you know that there are less people living in the UK (of all nationalities) than there are without access to ANY health care at all in the USA?  That Donald thinks he shouldn't fix this before twittering shite, kind of proves what a heartless bastard he is. Don't you think? It's OOF so probably not.

Last time anyone looked, the US was not a Socialist State and nor does it pretend to be...

They have a welfare system, it's simply different to ours and everyone is supported upto the age of 18, after that, you are reasonably expected to stand on your own two feet. Also, no one is denied medical treatment, it's simply that it has to be paid for at some point and the more you can afford the better that treatment is likely to be. The better your health insurance the less you will be charged... Hardly ground breaking stuff.

You have to understand how the US is structured in order to understand how it functions, for example several states don't levy income tax, yet are amongst the best places to live in terms of services provided and quality of life whilst some of the most heavily taxed states are either amongst the smallest (ie Connecticut) or poorest (usually very badly managed as well ie Michigan).

Everything that gets taken for granted in the UK is funded by our taxes, whether it's the NHS or social housing for pregnant teens. It's still not actually free by any definition 

Being a yellow livered lefty millennial, it comes as no surprise that you don't like President Trump or what he represents. I would go as far as to say it scares the bejesus out of you probably because you expect everything to be provided for you rather than having to actually bear the responsibility yourself.

Incidentally, American citizens privately contributed more foreign aid than their government, but you won't read that in the Guardian. Nor will you be told that some of the most philanthropic people on the planet are actually a) American and b) self made 'capitalist pigs' *

No wonder so many people hate what Trump represents... 

*to coin a Socialist phrase.

I would suggest that you obtain and read Everyday Millionaires by Chris Hogan. It's also available as an audio book if reading isn't your 'thing'.

Bloody hell, yet again I agree completely with you DG, everything you say is so true!

I would also add that we (yes, as you say WE pay for it) struggle with the costs of the NHS.  Only an American President who is a  lunatic would pursue a policy of an NHS for almost 330 million people.  Obama tried with his OHC package to implement some form of universal health care for Americans, but it's costs through an insurance based system has dramatically increased as I understand, and is not sustainable from what I have read.

So, yes, to compare the NHS with Trump's policies is like comparing chalk and cheese.  On that alone he is not talking "shite".

By the way, welcome back DG. You have been missed!

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Its not even a case of WE pay for it anymore . Its gone way beyond that. What we are spending now will have to be paid for by a generation who wont even be born when we die. Which is irresponsible in the extreme.
It simply cant carry on like this. Something has to change.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

America, (Americans) voted for the President it (they) deserve. 

(Can be attributed to a certain Canadian Female Stand up Comic)

You can take that any way you like.

In the same way that London(ers) has (have) always voted for the Major it(they) deserve.   

Out of interest, did you know that there are less people living in the UK (of all nationalities) than there are without access to ANY health care at all in the USA?  That Donald thinks he shouldn't fix this before twittering shite, kind of proves what a heartless bastard he is. Don't you think? It's OOF so probably not.

Last time anyone looked, the US was not a Socialist State and nor does it pretend to be...

They have a welfare system, it's simply different to ours and everyone is supported upto the age of 18, after that, you are reasonably expected to stand on your own two feet. Also, no one is denied medical treatment, it's simply that it has to be paid for at some point and the more you can afford the better that treatment is likely to be. The better your health insurance the less you will be charged... Hardly ground breaking stuff.

You have to understand how the US is structured in order to understand how it functions, for example several states don't levy income tax, yet are amongst the best places to live in terms of services provided and quality of life whilst some of the most heavily taxed states are either amongst the smallest (ie Connecticut) or poorest (usually very badly managed as well ie Michigan).

Everything that gets taken for granted in the UK is funded by our taxes, whether it's the NHS or social housing for pregnant teens. It's still not actually free by any definition 

Being a yellow livered lefty millennial, it comes as no surprise that you don't like President Trump or what he represents. I would go as far as to say it scares the bejesus out of you probably because you expect everything to be provided for you rather than having to actually bear the responsibility yourself.

Incidentally, American citizens privately contributed more foreign aid than their government, but you won't read that in the Guardian. Nor will you be told that some of the most philanthropic people on the planet are actually a) American and b) self made 'capitalist pigs' *

No wonder so many people hate what Trump represents... 

*to coin a Socialist phrase.

I would suggest that you obtain and read Everyday Millionaires by Chris Hogan. It's also available as an audio book if reading isn't your 'thing'.

Bloody hell, yet again I agree completely with you DG, everything you say is so true!

I would also add that we (yes, as you say WE pay for it) struggle with the costs of the NHS.  Only an American President who is a  lunatic would pursue a policy of an NHS for almost 330 million people.  Obama tried with his OHC package to implement some form of universal health care for Americans, but it's costs through an insurance based system has dramatically increased as I understand, and is not sustainable from what I have read.

So, yes, to compare the NHS with Trump's policies is like comparing chalk and cheese.  On that alone he is not talking "shite".

By the way, welcome back DG. You have been missed!

Lizzie and DG sitting in a tree......K-I-S-S-I-N-G.............

[Sir Tigger KC]

They have a welfare system, it's simply different to ours and everyone is supported upto the age of 18, after that, you are reasonably expected to stand on your own two feet. Also, no one is denied medical treatment, it's simply that it has to be paid for at some point and the more you can afford the better that treatment is likely to be. The better your health insurance the less you will be charged... Hardly ground breaking stuff.

Just to add to this, they have Medicare which as I understand it looks after the medical needs of the poor, unemployed and long term sick.

Most people have medical insurance as part of their employment package and for the self employed I believe that their medical insurance costs are tax deductible in most cases.

That's not to say that the US system doesn't have it's problems.  I once met a chap who'd injured his knee in a bike accident, had successful surgery paid for by his insurance, but after that he couldn't get insurance that covered his knee.  About 5 years after the initial op, the knee got very painful and he had to remortgage his house to fund a second operation.    Although I think that legislation that was part of Obamacare addressed this. 

[Sir Tigger KC]

A trade deal with the former British colonies is the work of a moment.

1......The USA lay down their demands.

2......We agree with them 100%......job done.

It will not be a negotiation of equals.  We will be so desperate to get a deal will will do as we are told.

Trump said to May yesterday "Stick around... " 

It has clearly been noted in Washington what a soft touch negotiator she is! 

[Kevin Wood]

...

That's not to say that the US system doesn't have it's problems.  I once met a chap who'd injured his knee in a bike accident, had successful surgery paid for by his insurance, but after that he couldn't get insurance that covered his knee.  About 5 years after the initial op, the knee got very painful and he had to remortgage his house to fund a second operation.    Although I think that legislation that was part of Obamacare addressed this. 

Yep, this is the problem with relying solely on insurance companies in a market economy. If you're a bad business prospect, you're oppsed, because the system exists to look after the insurance companies interests, not yours.

The happy medium probably lies somewhere between that extreme and the bottomless money-pit that treats everyone off the street with no questions asked and no obligation to form a useful part of society in return, that we have.

[STEMO]

...

That's not to say that the US system doesn't have it's problems.  I once met a chap who'd injured his knee in a bike accident, had successful surgery paid for by his insurance, but after that he couldn't get insurance that covered his knee.  About 5 years after the initial op, the knee got very painful and he had to remortgage his house to fund a second operation.    Although I think that legislation that was part of Obamacare addressed this. 

Yep, this is the problem with relying solely on insurance companies in a market economy. If you're a bad business prospect, you're oppsed, because the system exists to look after the insurance companies interests, not yours.

The happy medium probably lies somewhere between that extreme and the bottomless money-pit that treats everyone off the street with no questions asked and no obligation to form a useful part of society in return, that we have.

Even if you're a committed skiver, you should still be entitled to free health care if you are genuinely ill.  The problem is that separating the genuinely ill from the wastrels is a huge problem. If we could somehow get that right, the NHS would magically have plenty of funding, and hospital places would abound.
Add to this the multitude of 'new' mental issues and you have a recipe for failure.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

...

That's not to say that the US system doesn't have it's problems.  I once met a chap who'd injured his knee in a bike accident, had successful surgery paid for by his insurance, but after that he couldn't get insurance that covered his knee.  About 5 years after the initial op, the knee got very painful and he had to remortgage his house to fund a second operation.    Although I think that legislation that was part of Obamacare addressed this. 

Yep, this is the problem with relying solely on insurance companies in a market economy. If you're a bad business prospect, you're oppsed, because the system exists to look after the insurance companies interests, not yours.

The happy medium probably lies somewhere between that extreme and the bottomless money-pit that treats everyone off the street with no questions asked and no obligation to form a useful part of society in return, that we have.

Even if you're a committed skiver, you should still be entitled to free health care if you are genuinely ill.  The problem is that separating the genuinely ill from the wastrels is a huge problem. If we could somehow get that right, the NHS would magically have plenty of funding, and hospital places would abound.
Add to this the multitude of 'new' mental issues and you have a recipe for failure.

Near the top of TB's cull list, I should imagine.
.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Those who worship the NHS and claim it to be faultless would have us believe that the only alternative is the U.S. system.
The fact is that there are many variants, somewhere in between the two, used across the world.
I think we need to study them, as our current setup isn't sustainable in the long term.

[Kevin Wood]

...

That's not to say that the US system doesn't have it's problems.  I once met a chap who'd injured his knee in a bike accident, had successful surgery paid for by his insurance, but after that he couldn't get insurance that covered his knee.  About 5 years after the initial op, the knee got very painful and he had to remortgage his house to fund a second operation.    Although I think that legislation that was part of Obamacare addressed this. 

Yep, this is the problem with relying solely on insurance companies in a market economy. If you're a bad business prospect, you're oppsed, because the system exists to look after the insurance companies interests, not yours.

The happy medium probably lies somewhere between that extreme and the bottomless money-pit that treats everyone off the street with no questions asked and no obligation to form a useful part of society in return, that we have.

Even if you're a committed skiver, you should still be entitled to free health care if you are genuinely ill. The problem is that separating the genuinely ill from the wastrels is a huge problem. If we could somehow get that right, the NHS would magically have plenty of funding, and hospital places would abound.
Add to this the multitude of 'new' mental issues and you have a recipe for failure.

Absolutely agreed. A UK citizen who is unable to work will be contributing to our society in other ways, but our system currently attracts healthcare tourists who don't.

[Raeturbo]

America, (Americans) voted for the President it (they) deserve. 

(Can be attributed to a certain Canadian Female Stand up Comic)

You can take that any way you like.

In the same way that London(ers) has (have) always voted for the Major it(they) deserve.   

Out of interest, did you know that there are less people living in the UK (of all nationalities) than there are without access to ANY health care at all in the USA?  That Donald thinks he shouldn't fix this before twittering shite, kind of proves what a heartless bastard he is. Don't you think? It's OOF so probably not.

Last time anyone looked, the US was not a Socialist State and nor does it pretend to be...

They have a welfare system, it's simply different to ours and everyone is supported upto the age of 18, after that, you are reasonably expected to stand on your own two feet. Also, no one is denied medical treatment, it's simply that it has to be paid for at some point and the more you can afford the better that treatment is likely to be. The better your health insurance the less you will be charged... Hardly ground breaking stuff.

You have to understand how the US is structured in order to understand how it functions, for example several states don't levy income tax, yet are amongst the best places to live in terms of services provided and quality of life whilst some of the most heavily taxed states are either amongst the smallest (ie Connecticut) or poorest (usually very badly managed as well ie Michigan).

Everything that gets taken for granted in the UK is funded by our taxes, whether it's the NHS or social housing for pregnant teens. It's still not actually free by any definition 

Being a yellow livered lefty millennial, it comes as no surprise that you don't like President Trump or what he represents. I would go as far as to say it scares the bejesus out of you probably because you expect everything to be provided for you rather than having to actually bear the responsibility yourself.

Incidentally, American citizens privately contributed more foreign aid than their government, but you won't read that in the Guardian. Nor will you be told that some of the most philanthropic people on the planet are actually a) American and b) self made 'capitalist pigs' *

No wonder so many people hate what Trump represents... 

*to coin a Socialist phrase.

I would suggest that you obtain and read Everyday Millionaires by Chris Hogan. It's also available as an audio book if reading isn't your 'thing'.

.                                                       Excellent post!

[Lizzie Zoom]

Its not even a case of WE pay for it anymore . Its gone way beyond that. What we are spending now will have to be paid for by a generation who wont even be born when we die. Which is irresponsible in the extreme.
It simply cant carry on like this. Something has to change.

Yes. and how true that is Migv6

[Lizzie Zoom]

What I touched on in my post agreeing to DG's excellent summary was the dramatically increasing health care costs in the States, which actually has been increased by the Obama Health Care plan, hence the Trump demand to look seriously at the reform policy.

You can read this great report on some of this complex issue:

https://www.thebalance.com/causes-of-rising-healthcare-costs-4064878

and the explanation of the Reforms if you are studying it, as I have now briefly done:
https://www.healthcare-management-degree.net/faq/what-is-obama-care-healthcare-reform/

but I particularly noted the following statement:

"In 2017, U.S. health care costs were $3.5 trillion. That makes health care one of the country's largest industries. It equals 17.9 percent of gross domestic product.

This is for a population of 330 million

Now compare this against this statement about the UK's NHS (covering a population of 67 million):

"Total health spending in England was around £125 billion in 2017/18 and was expected to rise to over £127 billion by 2019/20, taking inflation into account.

In 2017/18 around £110 billion was spent on the NHS England budget. The rest was spent by the Department of Health on things like public health initiatives, education, training, and infrastructure (including IT and building new hospitals)."


Without analysing these figures too closely, and not adding various factors like the Insurance companies involvement in the USA, you can see on the face of it the differences of scale!!

That is what Trump, or any other US President has to deal with when touching on their health care issue!

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

And it isn't just about money. Gordon Brown more than doubled the NHS budget and made the whole thing worse in the process.

[Sir Tigger KC]

Here's a good article and pretty much what we're talking about. 

Linky

[Raeturbo]

Good one.    And Gordon Brown?  Anybody mention gold?...........

[Sir Tigger KC]

Good one.    And Gordon Brown?  Anybody mention gold?...........

A solid gold loser!   

[Lizzie Zoom]

Here's a good article and pretty much what we're talking about. 

Linky

Very good article!!

[Sir Tigger KC]

Good one.    And Gordon Brown?  Anybody mention gold?...........

A solid gold loser!   

Or a Stone Gold Loser!   

[Raeturbo]

Or a 7 billion loser !