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[Rods2]

The link below gives a very, very good long precis on what US foreign policy has been for the last 100 years. Now Obama is a dove who has withdrawn the US from the role of being the world's policeman. The alternatives that a jockeying for that position are Putin in Russia and Communist China. You decide which you prefer for this role: The US, China or Russia? None of them is not a realistic option. The last time the US has this isolationist attitude was in the 1920's which was a major contributor to WWII, which is why to keep the peace the US took on the role after WWII. We are currently heading for WWIII where Russia and China will continue to test the dove in the White House to see how far they can go. If it is too far then this will start the next world war or we all become subservient to Communist China or Putins Russia. What the Conservatives and Labour have done to our national defences (especially the Conservatives with Major's 1990's peace dividend and the current CaMoron / Osborne evisceration) is going to get us into trouble when it comes to defending our interests.

I know as a democrat who believes in multi-party democracy, an independent judicial system, strong property rights, free news media and basic human rights, which I prefer. In China you have no human rights and currently in Russia there are many very repressive new laws and a massive clampdown on human rights where Putin is trying to recreate the Soviet empire, they are going through the biggest repressive changes to their society since the fall of communism. This is why there is virtually no support from the ethnic Russian population or Ukrainians for Putin's irregular army in East Ukraine, there independence and freedoms mean much more to them than any increase in wealth from Putin's oil and gas money.

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/117859/allure-normalcy-what-america-still-owes-world

The current world order is breaking down and changing, be afraid, very afraid.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

The American Century is past; the USA are running out of money and power as all empires eventually do.

We the British can no longer afford a large defence budget, and we certainly cannot go back to that representing a massive 37%+ (£132 million) of the National total spend of £350 million in 1902, staying at that level during the British German naval arms race in the early years of the 20th century, leading up to the Great War.  Still then the welfare spend was just £12 million.

No, the World continues to change as it always did and that is why we should stay attached to Europe, albeit not a federal state in any form, so we can gain some protection from alliances as the USA fades.

[tigers_gonads]

Rods:-    Too true that 
I can't see anybody in Europe having the balls to stand up and be counted until the nutter factions of Islam have conquered North Africa.
Then bottoms will start to twitch 
In the meantime, Vlad and his chums from that bastion of democracy, Russia will probably carry on destabilizing anybody they feel like and help themselves to some more land for there buffer zone between themselves and NATO 
Vlad has already started threatening the northern Baltic states like Finland and Sweden about joining NATO and what he is calling  “Russophobia"


Lizzie:-   Do you seriously think anybody on the mainland continent would ride to our assistance if the poo ever hit the fan ?
The impression I get is that once they have taken what they need, they would quite happily see Great Britain rot   

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Rods:-    Too true that 
I can't see anybody in Europe having the balls to stand up and be counted until the nutter factions of Islam have conquered North Africa.
Then bottoms will start to twitch 
In the meantime, Vlad and his chums from that bastion of democracy, Russia will probably carry on destabilizing anybody they feel like and help themselves to some more land for there buffer zone between themselves and NATO 
Vlad has already started threatening the northern Baltic states like Finland and Sweden about joining NATO and what he is calling  “Russophobia"


Lizzie:-  Do you seriously think anybody on the mainland continent would ride to our assistance if the poo ever hit the fan ?
The impression I get is that once they have taken what they need, they would quite happily see Great Britain rot 

Time could / will tell, but do you think the USA will readily come to England's or Europe's aid now if things really got nasty with those in the East?  Yes, they would use our "Fortress Britain" as a defence for the security of the United States, as they would have during the Cold War, but as in 1940 the USA would only risk American lives as per their Constitution if their mainland or interests were threatened, and not risk them over a "lost cause" as they thought Britain was in that year.

The USA will always take action when their interests are threatened, but as a failing empire their ability and power is contracting and those "interests" will become less and only those of top priority will be thought of as important and worth tackling. They can no longer repeat the Iraq invasion and blow $1 Trillion plus 5,000+ lives American, their internal politics will not condone that and they cannot afford it.  So in the final analysis, it is either Britain building up it's defence forces at the expense of the NHS, Welfare and other public services (how popular would that be?!!) or we form a strong, affordable alliance with Europe, or at least Germany, our natural military partner with many similar political and financial interests.

What else can we do?  Of course we could always link up with Iran now they are stating publicly to be prepared to join forces with the USA in Iraq (??!!!)

[cleggy]

Islam, the enemy within.
It is a primitive repressive religion that seeps it's way into the very fabric of our being. Fighting a country is an easy objective, you know the enemy, but with Muslims.... they are the ones that frighten me. When they achieve their objective of power bases in Africa and the Middle East then it will be too late, they are all over the west and should any conventional conflict erupt the they are ready to take advantage of any instability.
The funding of Al Queda and the others comes from the oil rich Arab states and where do they get their vast wealth from?...... The west who pay for the oil which Britain and America discovered in the first place.
Islam should be tackled head on in this and other countries and you all know what I would do.. the exit is that way.
I think I would prefer to live under Putin than some tribal chief who lives in the middle ages.

As for the U.S foreign policy, half of them have no idea about the rest of the world let alone how to interact with it.

[Rods2]

Cheap oil and gas will aid the US recovery. The problem is not having the means it is having the will to act forcefully. Those that act forcefully, by standing up to aggressive people generally avoid wars. it is only when a country has weak appeasing leadership, that the aggressor oversteps the mark on a red line and starts a war.

The current problems aren't due to the US being weak militarily, but weak leadership, which starts with the dove in the White House. Russia currently views their empire building in terms of a 2.5 year window of opportunity, until the next US presidential elections, when they might vote for a bit more of a hawk.

The UK left wing governments prefer to spend our money on giving it away as overseas aid and trying to heal the world, than on our security. Security of your citizens and the survival of the state should always be the number one priority. An extra £12bn a year would do wonders for our defences.

Most, if not all, Western European countries will be Islamic countries with Sharia law by 2060.

[cleggy]

Cheap oil and gas will aid the US recovery. The problem is not having the means it is having the will to act forcefully. Those that act forcefully, by standing up to aggressive people generally avoid wars. it is only when a country has weak appeasing leadership, that the aggressor oversteps the mark on a red line and starts a war.

The current problems aren't due to the US being weak militarily, but weak leadership, which starts with the dove in the White House. Russia currently views their empire building in terms of a 2.5 year window of opportunity, until the next US presidential elections, when they might vote for a bit more of a hawk.

The UK left wing governments prefer to spend our money on giving it away as overseas aid and trying to heal the world, than on our security. Security of your citizens and the survival of the state should always be the number one priority. An extra £12bn a year would do wonders for our defences.

Most, if not all, Western European countries will be Islamic countries with Sharia law by 2060.

Agreed, and the first thing we need to do is show all Muslims the door, forget political correctness act now.