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Author Topic: OOF Shop no longer available  (Read 11143 times)

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TheBoy

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OOF Shop no longer available
« on: 21 August 2020, 15:18:16 »

Sadly, due to unforeseen issues, the OOF Shop has been taken offline.

It is currently unclear when, or even if, it will return. Clearly, this has related implications.

We sincerely apologise for any inconvenience this may cause.


Current Status as of 17th Feb 2021
ETA for shop reopening: Unknown/Unlikely
Phase: Paypal refuse to explain why they arbitarily closed our account, and refuse to let us open a new one.
« Last Edit: 17 February 2021, 18:06:52 by TheBoy »
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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #1 on: 21 August 2020, 15:19:58 »

That's a shame  :'(
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dave the builder

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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #2 on: 21 August 2020, 17:31:04 »

Hope you furloughed all the staff for the last few months and claimed a big Coronavirus impact grant before shutting it  ;D
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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #3 on: 22 August 2020, 10:42:52 »

Paypal are currently refusing to give a reason for the sudden closing of the OOF Paypal account, they have nobody manning phones - I've tried calling then aproximately 60 times, and you get through 6 or 7 mins of menus before being told the call cannot be transferred.  Emails are getting standard, canned responses.

They claim they have the right to unilaterally close an account without warning, though another part of there T&Cs clearly states notice must be given.

The T&Cs state the reasons for closing are:
Breach of T&Cs (I can't find where we have breached them)
Not used for 3yrs (Clearly we have)
Suspicious Activity (surely they would let the account owner know, and resolve?)


As well as cutting off OOF's only source of income, thus putting OOF at jeopardy, they further rub salt in our wounds by stating they will not release the funds in our Paypal account for 180 days.

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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #4 on: 22 August 2020, 11:15:28 »

They've become a bunch of cants lately...

Doubtless they blame Brexit, but I suspect that the end of their exclusive contract with eBay hasn't done them any favours :-\
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Entwood

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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #5 on: 22 August 2020, 11:44:13 »

Same thing has happened to a couple of other "on-line" clubs I'm in ... suddenly paypal decide to block everything but hold onto the money... I guess they know small clubs don't have the ability to take them to court ...  :(
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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #6 on: 22 August 2020, 12:07:48 »

I know its been mentioned and rebuffed before, for genuine reasons - but Im sure at least some members would be willing to contribute a few quid to help with running costs.
No need for publicity, so the fear of a two tier membership shouldnt arise.
A lot of us have had so much help, advice, info and fun on here for more than a decade, and would value it more than a subscription to Netflix or similar.
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #7 on: 22 August 2020, 12:09:35 »

Wot e sed :y
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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #8 on: 22 August 2020, 13:16:50 »

Yes......how many millions would you like?...😊
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dave the builder

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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #9 on: 22 August 2020, 16:12:08 »

I'd be happy to pay membership or donate some 50p coins for the lecky meter  :)
it would be a shame to loose such a great forum, there's not many left anymore  :(
a lot of helpful information was lost when Totalcarlton ended
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Shackeng

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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #10 on: 22 August 2020, 16:33:56 »

Me too. 👏
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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #11 on: 22 August 2020, 17:25:47 »

Likewise.  :y
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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #12 on: 22 August 2020, 17:48:44 »

and me .....
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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #13 on: 22 August 2020, 20:39:11 »

When you consider what you get for your annual subscription to an owners club-a magazine once a month/two months,possibly discount parts/insurance and maybe an internet forum of sorts.Then consider what you get from OOF,help with not only the Omega but just about any car you can mention plus help/guidance on many other topics-household electrics/appliances/building and who knows what else,then there are the general topics discussed/argued over.Then an annual subscription would I think represent fantastic value.
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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #14 on: 23 August 2020, 06:41:10 »

 I had a similar experiance with the ABS club shop a while ago. They kept asking for certain info, we replied, then they asked for the same again and one extra question, we replied. This roundabout went on for three months with them asking the same questions plus one more each time. No explanations as to why they suspended us.Then after posting up the injustices on their public faceache page, twice, they suddenly unfroze it with no explination.
As others have said, i would happily pay a fee to keep this site running. I have been Omegaless for 6 years now but stay here for the banter and to occasionaly chip in with a bit of knowledge that I have
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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #15 on: 23 August 2020, 07:34:35 »

I have long been appreciative that Jaime, (and co?) puts considerable effort, and no doubt expense,  to keep OOF running on OUR behalf, and am grateful to all those knowledgeable and helpful members on here. No doubt Jaime will advise if subs will help.
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amba

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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #16 on: 23 August 2020, 10:40:30 »

Most ,if not all clubs,have some form of subscription or membership fee.

For the sheer wealth of knowledge given freely by the members of this forum I would willingly have contributed even from day 1,so I agree if Jamie can find a way forward with a membership payment to keep this site running Im more than willing to contribute.
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Alnico Blue

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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #17 on: 23 August 2020, 12:58:17 »

Most ,if not all clubs,have some form of subscription or membership fee.

For the sheer wealth of knowledge given freely by the members of this forum I would willingly have contributed even from day 1,so I agree if Jamie can find a way forward with a membership payment to keep this site running Im more than willing to contribute.

x2  :y
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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #18 on: 23 August 2020, 19:05:51 »

I had a similar experiance with the ABS club shop a while ago. They kept asking for certain info, we replied, then they asked for the same again and one extra question, we replied. This roundabout went on for three months with them asking the same questions plus one more each time. No explanations as to why they suspended us.Then after posting up the injustices on their public faceache page, twice, they suddenly unfroze it with no explination.

Our Paypal has not been suspended/limited that you sometimes get if its deemed to be a little busy. Sadly in our case, they have simply closed the account, and are not open to the idea of re-enabling it.

We have not been given any opportunity to provide any additional info. It is just out of the blue they simply closed it without giving a reason. They say their decision is final, and they are Judge and Jury.

So we cannot use Paypal, and as they pretty much have a monopoly on that type of payment, thats pretty much the end of it.
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TheBoy

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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #19 on: 23 August 2020, 19:09:25 »

As to subs, I personally am passionately against them.  I know the Admin Team has changed since day 1, so maybe views are now different, but it was of our founding principles not to have subs.

Plus we have the problem of how are subs paid for, bearing in mind anything automated will require an online payment service, like, errr, Paypal.
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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #20 on: 23 August 2020, 19:38:44 »

When you consider what you get for your annual subscription to an owners club-a magazine once a month/two months,possibly discount parts/insurance and maybe an internet forum of sorts.Then consider what you get from OOF,help with not only the Omega but just about any car you can mention plus help/guidance on many other topics-household electrics/appliances/building and who knows what else,then there are the general topics discussed/argued over.Then an annual subscription would I think represent fantastic value.

Plus motor cycle........computer......house.....holiday......sex life. The list is endless. :y
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dave the builder

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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #21 on: 23 August 2020, 19:50:57 »

Just set up an ebay listing selling an oof subscription
OOFers can then use buy it now ,sending payment to your personal account
you don't even need to worry about posting anything out
ok there will be a small ebay fee ,probably only pennies  :-\
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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #22 on: 23 August 2020, 20:07:37 »

As to subs, I personally am passionately against them.  I know the Admin Team has changed since day 1, so maybe views are now different, but it was of our founding principles not to have subs.

Plus we have the problem of how are subs paid for, bearing in mind anything automated will require an online payment service, like, errr, Paypal.
This has been gone over a few times, and the same people that are happy to pay are likely as unswayed now as were when it was first mooted ;)

However, the sentiment behind your unswerving view on the subject is very much undertood and appreciated  :y

I suspect the those who can't be bothered to read the rules or guides wouldn't pay any way.

Perhaps as a compromise, one could pay to access the Maintenance Guides section?
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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #23 on: 24 August 2020, 07:36:05 »

Could the admins not simply open an OOF bank account to be used for shop payments or even voluntary donation payments, or any other kind of payments ?
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dave the builder

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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #24 on: 24 August 2020, 10:14:46 »



Perhaps as a compromise, one could pay to access the Maintenance Guides section?
trouble with that is someone asks a question, the response is "there's a guide - pay £x.xx " or.....
 someone like me ,who hasn't read the guides  :-[ advises how to solve the issue ,revenue lost  :(
 and everyone thinks i'm a dick for giving advice for free  ;D
had the same issues on an E.P.O.S /cash register forum in the past
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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #25 on: 24 August 2020, 10:54:31 »

Something on the profile could demonstrate that a Guide Subscription has been paid for to allow access. Which in turn could make follow up advice more forthcoming  :-\

There's a big difference asking for help to clarify a point in the guides and not bothering to read them.

The guides are an invaluable resource which are likely the most expensive part of the forum to maintain.

Perhaps, to turn it around, paying to access Gen Dis would be an option, although it would mean that anyone could access the guides without contributing anything :-\

Another option could be to ticket the meets, although whether that would cover the costs or not I don't know.
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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #26 on: 24 August 2020, 18:31:32 »

As said, its difficult to take automated payments without using Paypal.  If there was a way to do so, the shop would be open, and this thread wouldn't be here.

No idea what the answer is currently.  Probably shake the piggy bank and see how much falls out and see how long that gives OOF. Or get our silent sponsor to cover even more of the costs. Or plan B that has yet to be discovered.
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TheBoy

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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #27 on: 24 August 2020, 18:36:17 »

Could the admins not simply open an OOF bank account to be used for shop payments or even voluntary donation payments, or any other kind of payments ?
OOF has a bank account, but its not possible to automate payments in that way, unless via Direct Debit schemes, which brings a whole load of additional problems.  Trying to do it manually - tying up payments against orders, and trying to maintain stock levels whilst doing that, is going to become quite unmanageable. It was a possible plan following this, but when I drew out the flow, it was getting messy.
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addy

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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #28 on: 24 August 2020, 18:59:07 »

Just wandering if one of the many alternatives to PayPal, are worth looking at?

https://pay.google.com/about/send/

https://www.skrill.com/en/business/

https://www.payoneer.com/solutions/

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/markets/101415/4-best-alternatives-paypal.asp

https://smallbusiness.chron.com/alternatives-paypal-ebay-15780.html

The top 10 competitors in PayPal's competitive set are WePay, 2Checkout, Authorize.Net, Skrill, Intuit, ProPay, Dwolla, Braintree, Stripe and Payoneer. Together they have raised over 4.2B between their estimated 14.8K employees. PayPal has 21,800 employees and is ranked 1st among it's top 10 competitors.

There are probably loads more. Paypal is getting hopeless anyway. Twice today, it has not finished a payment, then put the order back through again, so ended up with 2 of the same thing.

Hope this might help.

Addy
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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #29 on: 24 August 2020, 19:08:04 »

Could the admins not simply open an OOF bank account to be used for shop payments or even voluntary donation payments, or any other kind of payments ?
OOF has a bank account, but its not possible to automate payments in that way, unless via Direct Debit schemes, which brings a whole load of additional problems.  Trying to do it manually - tying up payments against orders, and trying to maintain stock levels whilst doing that, is going to become quite unmanageable. It was a possible plan following this, but when I drew out the flow, it was getting messy.

I find this slightly confusing. As long as buyers / donaters have online banking they could simply transfer money from their account to the OOF account ?  :-\
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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #30 on: 24 August 2020, 19:33:10 »

Tracking the process is the hard part...

Place order
-Generate invoice/order number. Confirm order with
 payment details
Payment made
-Payment confirmed recieved. Reconciled against invoice. 
 Order dispatched

PayPal automates the process somewhat, both for invoicing and accounting purposes.
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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #31 on: 24 August 2020, 19:46:01 »

It is easy to get bogged down in the how, but before we sink I would like to say that I'd be more than happy to contribute.

Surely we can work something out?

A voluntary payment into the OOF account?

I tend to agree that a mandatory subscription might be counterproductive. We need users now.

How about (when permissible) a subscription event.
I also have a beach buggy and the money the Air-cooled fraternity have got out of me is probably shocking. Thankfully, i have had the sense not to add it up.

It wouldn't need to be OTT, I'm not suggesting a black tie dinner, it could be camping in a field if you like, just a meet up, a few glasses and a couple of prizes for best presented, oldest, newest, silliest, whatever.

Perhaps members here with a particular skill-set might (for example) be prepared to host a tech 2 party or something similar. Car checks, maintenance advice etc etc.

This forum is an incredible resource for us owners. As the cars grow increasingly scarce and cars being scrapped really start to dry up (It won't be long) we will need this forum more than ever.

I'm in Shropshire and a silver Omega coming the other way (first one iv'e seen on the road for 8 months) flashed me the other day. Now I'm perfectly used to other beach buggies, beetles and the like flashing me when I'm out, but that is the first time from an Omega driver.
Whoever it was, I think that is exactly where we are now.

Having said all that, I have no real idea what running the OOF costs. Perhaps a poll on "would you contribute" might provide an idea of how much would be required from each.

Might be a starting point.

regards,

Graham.
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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #32 on: 24 August 2020, 20:20:43 »

This has come up a few times in the ten or eleven years I have known of the forum.

I would, again be only too happy to pay an unconditional membership fee, especially if it would mean no more OOF.

Ultimately, it comes down to the admin team and the 'mysterious benefactor' I suppose, although there could be a case made that not taking money from the membership to avoid the perception of influence is at odds with taking funding from an individual regardless of the actual influence that party may have.  :-\
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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #33 on: 24 August 2020, 21:02:24 »

I suppose the long & short of it is - Jaime and the other admins now know (if they didnt already) that quite a few of us on here are more than willing to chuck a few quid in the pot by whatever means is available rather than see OOF put at serious risk.
So they know the option is there if they feel they need it.
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deviator

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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #34 on: 25 August 2020, 10:22:31 »

I'm more of a long term lurker and occasional poster. I've asked before if there is anyway I can help keep the lights on, it has always been politely declined.

I'm more than happy to chuck a few quid in the pot to keep an active forum alive. Tell me who/where to pay.
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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #35 on: 25 August 2020, 10:45:41 »

Yes I would be happy to contribute too. This forum has pulled me out of the proverbial a number of times. And of course the banter would be sorely missed :(
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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #36 on: 25 August 2020, 11:09:33 »

As well as cutting off OOF's only source of income, thus putting OOF at jeopardy, they further rub salt in our wounds by stating they will not release the funds in our Paypal account for 180 days.

Surely that is theft and a matter for the police?
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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #37 on: 25 August 2020, 19:32:33 »

Wouldn't an old fashioned Cheque be an option to consider  :-\

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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #38 on: 25 August 2020, 19:34:38 »

As well as cutting off OOF's only source of income, thus putting OOF at jeopardy, they further rub salt in our wounds by stating they will not release the funds in our Paypal account for 180 days.

Surely that is theft and a matter for the police?

No, because theft from a legal point of view only becomes such if there is a permanent loss monies or property.

No doubt PP have a clause in their terms and conditions to withhold the repayment of money for a period of time if there is some form of doubt about the validity of the member / trader concerned, as there is apparently with the OOF ;)
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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #39 on: 25 August 2020, 22:45:35 »

I bet Uncle STEMO hacked the PP account and made off with the cash!  ;D
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #40 on: 26 August 2020, 10:31:59 »

I bet Uncle STEMO hacked the PP account and made off with the cash!  ;D


 ;D ;D ;D ;D poor STEMO, he would never do that...............or would he? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #41 on: 26 August 2020, 11:01:33 »

I bet Uncle STEMO hacked the PP account and made off with the cash!  ;D
I doubt it, he struggled ordering his Asda shopping online :D
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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #42 on: 17 February 2021, 18:05:00 »

Well, Paypal have at last said we can have the money sat in our Paypal account, and we can xfer it out elsewhere....    ....but now wont accept the logon credentials, and the forgot password (which I haven't) link takes you round in circles as its now a limited account, grrr.

fikcless, faceless wankstains. Hate 'em.

I will personally stop using them with the upcoming ebay seller changes, which means ebay pay you directly, so I simply won't need it. Tossers.
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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #43 on: 17 February 2021, 18:17:20 »

Can't we pay in Bitcoin?  :)
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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #44 on: 17 February 2021, 18:19:40 »

Can't we pay in Bitcoin?  :)
Bit coin? Would I have to saw my 20p's up?  :-\
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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #45 on: 17 February 2021, 18:42:36 »

Can't we pay in Bitcoin?  :)
Bit coin? Would I have to saw my 20p's up? :-\

Yes hence the term pieces of silver  ;)
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BlackieNo1

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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #46 on: 22 August 2021, 20:24:25 »

So what’s the craic? I’d like to buy a copy of the V6 timing belt DVD so that I can attempt it on my 3.2….
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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #47 on: 24 August 2021, 17:16:13 »

Until we find another viable small payments clearing house like Paypal, the Shop is unable to take payments :(

Clearly, this buggers our long term future as well.
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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #48 on: 24 August 2021, 18:18:10 »

Until we find another viable small payments clearing house like Paypal, the Shop is unable to take payments :(

Clearly, this buggers our long term future as well.

 :'(
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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #49 on: 24 August 2021, 18:30:24 »

If there was an OOF snail mail address we could send that old fashioned currency called "cash money"  ;)
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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #50 on: 24 August 2021, 19:18:54 »

Visions of shady characters meeting in darkened places and brown envelopes being sneakily exchanged ;D ;D ;D
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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #51 on: 24 August 2021, 20:22:01 »

Visions of shady characters meeting in darkened places and brown envelopes being sneakily exchanged ;D ;D ;D
Have you been SPYING on me  :o   ;D
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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #52 on: 24 August 2021, 22:18:05 »

Until we find another viable small payments clearing house like Paypal, the Shop is unable to take payments :(

Clearly, this buggers our long term future as well.

The Classic Car Club that I am a member of have used Paypal for payments for services / purchases etc from Members, but due to the fees charged, recently looked into using Opayo as an alternative. I don't know about the pros and cons of Opayo relative to the use that the OOF would make of it,  or indeed whether my Club actually made the change, but maybe it is something to possibly consider...?
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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #53 on: 26 August 2021, 16:22:22 »

Until we find another viable small payments clearing house like Paypal, the Shop is unable to take payments :(

Clearly, this buggers our long term future as well.

The Classic Car Club that I am a member of have used Paypal for payments for services / purchases etc from Members, but due to the fees charged, recently looked into using Opayo as an alternative. I don't know about the pros and cons of Opayo relative to the use that the OOF would make of it,  or indeed whether my Club actually made the change, but maybe it is something to possibly consider...?
One of my Bro's uses its forerunner in his business, and I seem to recall the terms were unsuitable for our needs, but will look again in case its changed :y
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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #54 on: 26 August 2021, 16:37:43 »

Couldnt you just have an OOF shop bank account which people can transfer money into to pay for purchases ?  :-\
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TheBoy

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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #55 on: 26 August 2021, 19:13:40 »

Couldnt you just have an OOF shop bank account which people can transfer money into to pay for purchases ?  :-\
To assist the chap wanting a DVD in a hurry, that was offered.

However, as a general thing, it means manually trying to tie bank xfers to "purchases", which is going to be error prone at times when we sell more than 1 item during the day or 2 the process takes.


The Sagepay option above isn't going to fly due to no supported plugin, and the monthly standing charge is unaffordable for us.
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mattbearman

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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #56 on: 17 February 2023, 13:32:20 »

Is there any update on this? I'm pretty new here, but I'd hate to see the club struggle due to lack of funds.

If it helps my day job is web development, so I've got a fair bit of knowledge and experience in this area. I see that Zen Cart has a Stripe plugin, is that an option that's already been considered?
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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #57 on: 17 February 2023, 14:13:49 »

Is there any update on this? I'm pretty new here, but I'd hate to see the club struggle due to lack of funds.

If it helps my day job is web development, so I've got a fair bit of knowledge and experience in this area. I see that Zen Cart has a Stripe plugin, is that an option that's already been considered?
Always interested to see what's about, I can look at Stripe (on face of it, it looks like 1.5% + 20p or 1.9% + 20p for business Visa/Mastercard), which isn't too bad, but potential to get hit with high charges for certain things out of our control.

Also, a quick squint at it, we store/handle the card payment, which is an absolute red line for us, due to the extra hoops we'd need to jump through.

As for resolution with Paypal, thats never going to happen.  They will not tell us what the issue was that caused them to close our account.
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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #58 on: 17 February 2023, 14:16:27 »

Is cashapp a thing here?
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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #59 on: 17 February 2023, 14:32:42 »

Also, a quick squint at it, we store/handle the card payment, which is an absolute red line for us, due to the extra hoops we'd need to jump through.

Stripe definitely offers hosted payment pages, so you wouldn't have to worry about PCI compliance. I've built apps with it before where all you ever see on your end is a token that relates to the card data Stripe stores on their end, the card data never hits your servers. Don't know if the Zen Cart plugin supports that payment flow though
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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #60 on: 18 February 2023, 09:25:22 »

Is cashapp a thing here?
That sort of stuff would be completely unsuitable
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TheBoy

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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #61 on: 18 February 2023, 09:27:44 »

Also, a quick squint at it, we store/handle the card payment, which is an absolute red line for us, due to the extra hoops we'd need to jump through.

Stripe definitely offers hosted payment pages, so you wouldn't have to worry about PCI compliance. I've built apps with it before where all you ever see on your end is a token that relates to the card data Stripe stores on their end, the card data never hits your servers. Don't know if the Zen Cart plugin supports that payment flow though
I'll have to look harder at that plugin.  Although the income from the shop had dwindled to very low values anyway, so not sure the effort needed would be worthwhile.....
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #62 on: 18 February 2023, 14:14:19 »

Would there be any mileage in going bigger?

Say a unit and stripping scrapped cars for every last nut bolt and obscure components, as opposed to the anything that will sell in a week and bin the rest. And possibly restoring those that might otherwise be scrapped :-\

As I typed that, I can't help but wonder if it's not about ten years behind the curve :-\
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TheBoy

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Re: OOF Shop no longer available
« Reply #63 on: 18 February 2023, 15:03:00 »

And who is ever going to get the time to do that ;)

Not that I think you'd ever cover the unit costs. Not even close.
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