Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[biggriffin]

For those members who might appreciate it's worth.
 


 O booger needs rotation..

[Doctor Gollum]

I don't know, that hatch back looks better upside-down 

[Sir Tigger KC]

Looks like a fine motorcar!    Even if it is upside down! 

[Broomies Mate]

For those not in Australia.

[biggriffin]

O dear, now it's up the right way, opti will be able to read it,and his heart rate will go up.

[STEMO]

O dear, now it's up the right way, opti will be able to read it,and his heart rate will go up.

That's ok, he'll get the wrong end of the stick 

[Kevin Wood]

I'll have some of what he's been smoking! Still, he got the second half of the headline bang on.

No part of that car was great. It was a bean counting exercise of using up things from the parts bin.

The A series engine was way too gutless for the car, the B series suitable only for agricultural use. The O series was just about acceptable but only went in the last few Marinas and the shItal.

The transmission and final drive were woefully inadequate even for the gutless engines in use. The suspension from the Minor was only just post-war in design and, in a car much heavier that originally intended, performed exactly as would be expected.

Styling wise, they tried to complete with the Cortina, Escort and Capri in a single model which failed to hit the spot on all counts, hence why the former have become sought after classics and the Marina has found its true vocation in life in being used to protect the ground from falling pianos.

[Rangie]

Had the estate & the jubilee saloon never had any problems with either of them the estate  was I think an HL so had quite a few luxuries for the day , the jubilee sounded exactly like an MGB & performed really well traded it in for a 2.8 Granada Ghia.

[YZ250]

I'll have some of what he's been smoking! Still, he got the second half of the headline bang on.

No part of that car was great. It was a bean counting exercise of using up things from the parts bin.

The A series engine was way too gutless for the car, the B series suitable only for agricultural use. The O series was just about acceptable but only went in the last few Marinas and the shItal.

The transmission and final drive were woefully inadequate even for the gutless engines in use. The suspension from the Minor was only just post-war in design and, in a car much heavier that originally intended, performed exactly as would be expected.

Styling wise, they tried to complete with the Cortina, Escort and Capri in a single model which failed to hit the spot on all counts, hence why the former have become sought after classics and the Marina has found its true vocation in life in being used to protect the ground from falling pianos.

But apart from the above they were alright yeh. 

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

I'll have some of what he's been smoking! Still, he got the second half of the headline bang on.

No part of that car was great. It was a bean counting exercise of using up things from the parts bin.

The A series engine was way too gutless for the car, the B series suitable only for agricultural use. The O series was just about acceptable but only went in the last few Marinas and the shItal.

The transmission and final drive were woefully inadequate even for the gutless engines in use. The suspension from the Minor was only just post-war in design and, in a car much heavier that originally intended, performed exactly as would be expected.

Styling wise, they tried to complete with the Cortina, Escort and Capri in a single model which failed to hit the spot on all counts, hence why the former have become sought after classics and the Marina has found its true vocation in life in being used to protect the ground from falling pianos.

Strewth......hardly a glowing summary of this British icon of advanced engineering.

Perhaps the 'sought after and respected coupe' 1.8 TC was the one to lust after. This is where Sir Tigger found most of his wet pussy action.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Perhaps the futuristic All-aggro was better.

[Nick W]

Perhaps the futuristic All-aggro was better.

It was an equally bad re-hash of the 1100, done in the classic style: ignore the designer's intent and make it ugly, do the same with engineering by making the best bits of the 1100 worse, and the bad bits utterly terrible.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Perhaps the futuristic All-aggro was better.

It was an equally bad re-hash of the 1100, done in the classic style: ignore the designer's intent and make it ugly, do the same with engineering by making the best bits of the 1100 worse, and the bad bits utterly terrible.

Yes. It was a piss poor effort. But this is BL we are talking about.

But what of that wonderful steering wheel Just like the controls from Stingray and Fireball XL5....

[biggriffin]

But my Lud, you haven't learned anything about motor vehicles, designed, assembled, and built in the west midland, you've bought a Jaaaag, which has been all of the above by Red Robbos grand children, ...

[Nick W]

But what of that wonderful steering wheel Just like the controls from Stingray and Fireball XL5....

The principle is sound. But in practice, the difference in circumference isn't great enough to give the quoted effect. And cars of that size/weight don't need any assisted steering.

[Marks DTM Calib]

But my Lud, you haven't learned anything about motor vehicles, designed, assembled, and built in the west midland, you've bought a Jaaaag, which has been all of the above by Red Robbos grand children, ...

A fine product designed in the Cotswolds 

[New POD]

Having been upside down in a Morris Marina as a singer in an accident which killed a pedestrian you can guess what I think the Morris Marina it's s***

[Nick W]

Having been upside down in a Morris Marina as a singer in an accident which killed a pedestrian you can guess what I think the Morris Marina it's s***

I didn't enjoy the upside down in an Allegro experience either.
Although I did get to use the HIF carb and manifold on my sister's Mini

[Rangie]

Talking about vehicles from 45/50 years ago no real surprise.

[Nick W]

Talking about vehicles from 45/50 years ago no real surprise.

That Allegro experience was 31 years ago. The car was only 7 years old; younger than any I've owned.....

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Talking about vehicles from 45/50 years ago no real surprise.

That Allegro experience was 31 years ago. The car was only 7 years old; younger than any I've owned.....

Did they still make the All-aggro in 1983? Must have been one of the last.

[Rangie]

Talking about vehicles from 45/50 years ago no real surprise.

That Allegro experience was 31 years ago. The car was only 7 years old; younger than any I've owned.....

Did they still make the All-aggro in 1983? Must have been one of the last.

. 

I'd moved on from BLs offerings by then thank the Lord..😄

[Nick W]

Talking about vehicles from 45/50 years ago no real surprise.

That Allegro experience was 31 years ago. The car was only 7 years old; younger than any I've owned.....

Did they still make the All-aggro in 1983? Must have been one of the last.

. 

I'd moved on from BLs offerings by then thank the Lord..😄

Yes, early '80s Japanese stuff was much better in every way.

[Rangie]

Talking about vehicles from 45/50 years ago no real surprise.

That Allegro experience was 31 years ago. The car was only 7 years old; younger than any I've owned.....

Did they still make the All-aggro in 1983? Must have been one of the last.

. 

I'd moved on from BLs offerings by then thank the Lord..😄

Yes, early '80s Japanese stuff was much better in every way.

. 

So right, I had a Nissan Patrol & SWMBO a Nissan Micra both totally reliable .

[YZ250]

.......
Yes, early '80s Japanese stuff was much better in every way.

Ooh, engine wise maybe but my dad had a brand new Datsun Bluebird and a brand new Datsun Violet Coupe 160J. They rotted at such an alarming rate that it put him off Japanese for life. 

[Sir Tigger KC]

My Morris Marina 1800TC Coupe finished in BL mustard with a big black stripe down the bonnet handled very well, although it was probably more by luck than judgement that I didn't end up in a hedge upside down in a county lane late at night.   

[YZ250]

My Morris Marina 1800TC Coupe finished in BL mustard with a big black stripe down the bonnet handled very well, although it was probably more by luck than judgement that I didn't end up in a hedge upside down in a county lane late at night.   

When you own a car for a while you begin to know its capabilities, whether good or bad. I owned my Capri 3.0S for over six years and whilst other people thought the handling was crap due to its light arse end, it was extremely predictable. I could push slides at silly speeds because it was so predictable. My 3.5 SD1 TP was similar, although it was a lazy engine so backing off took a second or two longer to recover. 

[Nick W]

.......
Yes, early '80s Japanese stuff was much better in every way.

Ooh, engine wise maybe but my dad had a brand new Datsun Bluebird and a brand new Datsun Violet Coupe 160J. They rotted at such an alarming rate that it put him off Japanese for life. 

Yes Fords, Renaults, BL, BMW etc were well known for never needing welding in their first 40 years.


No, not years. I meant months.

[Rangie]

Worst car for rust I've ever owned was a 1976 Cortina 2000e & it filled with water every time it rained.

[YZ250]

Worst car for rust I've ever owned was a 1976 Cortina 2000e & it filled with water every time it rained.

The front wings went rusty early on my MK3 Cortina but I don't recall mine actually leaking. Then again it had no wheel arch liners so the mud and crap accumulated in the top corner of the front wings. I had to replace the wings on mine. My SD1 was just as bad for rust, but it was the door bottoms and rear wheel arch that suffered on those, as the SD1 doors didn't drain properly.
Both of these cars were second hand though, so I sort of expected it. My dads Japanese cars were brand new, and he didn't expect such rot within a couple of years. The philosophy was, buy Japanese, keep it for four or five years as it will be reliable and then throw it away before it disintegrated and start again. By contrast, I had my 3.0S Capri, purchased at around two years old, for about six years and it had no visible rust on it.     The guy that bought it off me kept it as a collectors car, I just wish I had.     

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Worst car for rust I've ever owned was a 1976 Cortina 2000e & it filled with water every time it rained.

The front wings went rusty early on my MK3 Cortina but I don't recall mine actually leaking. Then again it had no wheel arch liners so the mud and crap accumulated in the top corner of the front wings. I had to replace the wings on mine. My SD1 was just as bad for rust, but it was the door bottoms and rear wheel arch that suffered on those, as the SD1 doors didn't drain properly.
Both of these cars were second hand though, so I sort of expected it. My dads Japanese cars were brand new, and he didn't expect such rot within a couple of years. The philosophy was, buy Japanese, keep it for four or five years as it will be reliable and then throw it away before it disintegrated and start again. By contrast, I had my 3.0S Capri, purchased at around two years old, for about six years and it had no visible rust on it.     The guy that bought it off me kept it as a collectors car, I just wish I had.   

Where you Bodie or Doyle?

I had a girlfriend who owned the later 2.8i. This one came with the 5 speed box and was unimpressive. Piss poor bottom end torque combined with tall gearing made the car feel lethargic. Looked great though.

The old V6 Essex lump may have been agricultural but at least it had some low end heft.

[Rangie]

Always fancied a 2.8 Capri but had to make do with the Granada wasn't a bad vehicle but had a great thirst !

[YZ250]

Always fancied a 2.8 Capri but had to make do with the Granada wasn't a bad vehicle but had a great thirst !

The Granada had a decent boot space though.    I towed a small camping trailer with my Capri when we went camping and one time when we were away on holiday my brother-in-law and family visited. On the day we packed up to leave he suggested putting what he could in his Granada boot to ease our load. I towed a practically empty trailer home, he got the lot in there.   
Compared to the Capri, the Granada boot seemed massive. 

[Nick W]

I had a girlfriend who owned the later 2.8i. This one came with the 5 speed box and was unimpressive. Piss poor bottom end torque combined with tall gearing made the car feel lethargic. Looked great though.

The old V6 Essex lump may have been agricultural but at least it had some low end heft.

They have very similar acceleration; the slightly quicker 2.8i also has a higher top speed which are both down to its ability to rev. If you remove the 2.8i rev limiter it's easy to over rev one. It doesn't have the power to use the fifth gear for a higher speed though. The 3.0l is mechanically limited by it's camshaft, valve train and inlet manifold, anything over 5000rpm requires time, ear plugs and a complete lack of mechanical sympathy. You'll also be resetting the valve clearances all the time.


Both cars use the same 3.02 diff ratio, and the four speed 2.8i used the same gearbox as a 3.0l. Fitting the 3.44 diff from a 2.0l car improves the drivability of the 2.8, and the fifth gear means you keep most of the cruising ability. The same diff in a 3.0l ruins the whole car; 1/4 mile time, in gear acceleration and fuel economy all get worse. The four speed boxes are unbreakable, the T9 five-speed is barely up to a hard driven Pinto, V6s kill them in no time.


Another reason the 2.8 'feels' slower is due to K-jet's slow throttle response. I've written before it feels as if the throttle cable is made from knicker elastic.


Both engines are big, heavy, thirsty and lacking in durability. That last one is mostly down to the nylon timing gear and weak oil pump drive.


A 2.8i is a better car all round; it has suspension that works, a better interior(it's a mix of the Ghia and S specs) and is built into the later, better built bodyshell. That's probably a moot point these days, as any Capri that isn't a five figure car will need all the usual welding; sills, arches, floors, front spring hangers, rear roof posts, windscreen corners, wings, front and rear valences, A-pillars and inner wings. Some of the five figure cars will need much of that work done again, but properly.


I like Capris a lot, but a mildly tweaked 2.0l is a much better car both to own and drive.

[YZ250]

I had my 3.0S Capri

Were you Bodie or Doyle?

I had a girlfriend who owned the later 2.8i. This one came with the 5 speed box and was unimpressive. Piss poor bottom end torque combined with tall gearing made the car feel lethargic. Looked great though.

The old V6 Essex lump may have been agricultural but at least it had some low end heft.

 

The Professionals did influence the choice of car, which is why it HAD to be a 3.0S and not one of the smaller engines or a Ghia. 
Rangie must have been George Cowley in his Granada. 
I agree, the 5 speed 2.8 Capri did seem lethargic compared to the original 4 speed, which was fairly similarly matched to the 3.0S in terms of get up and go. My mate sent his 4 speed 2.8 to Turbo Technics and it was quick, very quick back then. 
That car still holds a place in my heart.    I've still got my Capri Club International card, which I occasionally use as an ice scraper. 

[Rangie]

A mate of mine in 1970 had a MK 2 Cortina Savage 3 litre V6 absolutely stunning car reg was HTF 12F it was still around a few years back.

[YZ250]

I had a girlfriend who owned the later 2.8i. This one came with the 5 speed box and was unimpressive. Piss poor bottom end torque combined with tall gearing made the car feel lethargic. Looked great though.

The old V6 Essex lump may have been agricultural but at least it had some low end heft.

They have very similar acceleration; the slightly quicker 2.8i also has a higher top speed which are both down to its ability to rev. If you remove the 2.8i rev limiter it's easy to over rev one. It doesn't have the power to use the fifth gear for a higher speed though. The 3.0l is mechanically limited by it's camshaft, valve train and inlet manifold, anything over 5000rpm requires time, ear plugs and a complete lack of mechanical sympathy. You'll also be resetting the valve clearances all the time.


Both cars use the same 3.02 diff ratio, and the four speed 2.8i used the same gearbox as a 3.0l. Fitting the 3.44 diff from a 2.0l car improves the drivability of the 2.8, and the fifth gear means you keep most of the cruising ability. ...............

I'm sure my MK3 3.0S had the 3.09:1 diff, same as the original 4 speed 2.8.     I sheared a tooth out of the crown wheel on mine and suffered lock up when the planet wheel and crown wheel didn't mesh. 
I fitted the same ratio replacement diff from a 2.8 4 speed and the foil tag on both definitely said 3.09.    The guy that sold it to me from Capri Club International had swapped his for a slip diff. 

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Sadly the only Capri I actually owned was a 1974(M) 1.6 XL.

White with a seventies BVR. Cambelt failure cost me £100 to repair, which was probably as much as the car was worth in 1989/90

Luckily the belt failure didn't damage the engine.

[Nick W]

Sadly the only Capri I actually owned was a 1974(M) 1.6 XL.

White with a seventies BVR. Cambelt failure cost me £100 to repair, which was probably as much as the car was worth in 1989/90

Luckily the belt failure didn't damage the engine.

That would make it a facelift Mk1, which would have been worth a bit more than £100 in 89.


I paid £25 for the petrol in a '79 1.6GL in 1991, and got the car for free. Which was about what it was worth, as it had a badly fitted gold wing(the car was dark green) and a knackered engine. A 2.0l engine from a mk4 Cortina was £75. 2 weeks after buying the car I did 2000 miles in it in France. Over the following 5 years, I used it everyday doing 500miles a week during the spring and summer and going to every RWYB I could afford. It must have done 1000 1/4 mile passes in that time, which meant having to replace the axle.

[BazaJT]

Although I've never owned either[but driven plenty of miles in both] the manta was a better car than the Capri but of course to get a "big" engine you had to go for a Monza rather than Manta.My coupe of choice way back then was an Alfa GTV6,although I did later have a Monza.

[Doctor Gollum]

I liked my Mk2 V6 Granadas, and although the T9 box is made of cheese, replacing it was more than covered by the fuel saving... Both my five speeds 2.3 carb and 2.8i used to regularly see 28mpg... The four speed 2.3 used to struggle to better 18, and the 2.8 carb auto never managed 15, even on a run

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Sadly the only Capri I actually owned was a 1974(M) 1.6 XL.

White with a seventies BVR. Cambelt failure cost me £100 to repair, which was probably as much as the car was worth in 1989/90

Luckily the belt failure didn't damage the engine.

That would make it a facelift Mk1, which would have been worth a bit more than £100 in 89.


I paid £25 for the petrol in a '79 1.6GL in 1991, and got the car for free. Which was about what it was worth, as it had a badly fitted gold wing(the car was dark green) and a knackered engine. A 2.0l engine from a mk4 Cortina was £75. 2 weeks after buying the car I did 2000 miles in it in France. Over the following 5 years, I used it everyday doing 500miles a week during the spring and summer and going to every RWYB I could afford. It must have done 1000 1/4 mile passes in that time, which meant having to replace the axle.

Following the remap by Viezu the Tata set a best of 12.1/120.....A pretty high terminal taken from a pretty slow time. If it had 4WD and some form of launch control to dump all 570 BHP against I reckon it would get into the high elevens.

Initial traction is the main problem.

[Nick W]

Following the remap by Viezu the Tata set a best of 12.1/120.....A pretty high terminal taken from a pretty slow time. If it had 4WD and some form of launch control to dump all 570 BHP against I reckon it would get into the high elevens.

Initial traction is the main problem.

Launch control would probably have helped; I doubt 4WD would. A good launch with a powerful car is to just overpower the tyres, while keeping the engine spinning. 4WD tends to just bog the engine, assuming that the transmission stays together.


My Capri would do 17.1/77mph all day. I didn't matter if the clutch was slipped in at 2500rpm, or sidestepped. Then rev to 7000rpm in the first three gears, selecting fourth as you cross the line.

[Broomies Mate]

Following the remap by Viezu the Tata set a best of 12.1/120.....A pretty high terminal taken from a pretty slow time. If it had 4WD and some form of launch control to dump all 570 BHP against I reckon it would get into the high elevens.

Initial traction is the main problem.

1/4 mile runs are just a pissing contest, much like 0-60 or 0-150.

The true test is from 30-50, or 50-70.

Basically, real world need for speed. Overtaking a Honda Jazz on a NSL road as an example.

[Nick W]

1/4 mile runs are just a pissing contest, much like 0-60 or 0-150.

The true test OF A ROAD CAR is from 30-50, or 50-70.

Basically, real world need for speed. Overtaking a Honda Jazz on a NSL road as an example.

Corrected that for you.


1/4 mile times are a much more useful comparison than 0-60 times, as the start is even more critical to get a good time and terminal speed in a short distance. The speed is the easy part - plenty of power is the key - as Opti's times show. But a less powerful  car optimised to launch well will run faster times at lower speeds, which is the interesting part. Let's not forget; we're talking about drag racing, which like all sports is a largely pointless activity.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Following the remap by Viezu the Tata set a best of 12.1/120.....A pretty high terminal taken from a pretty slow time. If it had 4WD and some form of launch control to dump all 570 BHP against I reckon it would get into the high elevens.

Initial traction is the main problem.

Launch control would probably have helped; I doubt 4WD would. A good launch with a powerful car is to just overpower the tyres, while keeping the engine spinning. 4WD tends to just bog the engine, assuming that the transmission stays together.


My Capri would do 17.1/77mph all day. I didn't matter if the clutch was slipped in at 2500rpm, or sidestepped. Then rev to 7000rpm in the first three gears, selecting fourth as you cross the line.

If the car has little power and torque then I tend to agree.....not to mention the additional weight. However, my car seems to have a surfeit of power and torque over traction. Despite the extra weight I reckon a good 4WD system would shave up to half a second from the 60 foot time, an advantage that would be carried all the way to 1320 feet.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

1/4 mile runs are just a pissing contest, much like 0-60 or 0-150.

The true test OF A ROAD CAR is from 30-50, or 50-70.

Basically, real world need for speed. Overtaking a Honda Jazz on a NSL road as an example.

Corrected that for you.


1/4 mile times are a much more useful comparison than 0-60 times, as the start is even more critical to get a good time and terminal speed in a short distance. The speed is the easy part - plenty of power is the key - as Opti's times show. But a less powerful  car optimised to launch well will run faster times at lower speeds, which is the interesting part. Let's not forget; we're talking about drag racing, which like all sports is a largely pointless activity.

Pointless? Yes. But most pointless things tend to be fun. Which is why we do it. Drag racing is also quite technical with a seemingly endless amount of ways to improve times. I've yet to take 10 or 15 PSI from the rear tyres as has been suggested for better traction.

[Nick W]

Pointless? Yes. But most pointless things tend to be fun. Which is why we do it. Drag racing is also quite technical with a seemingly endless amount of ways to improve times. I've yet to take 10 or 15 PSI from the rear tyres as has been suggested for better traction.

Both of those are high up the list as why we spent a lot of time doing it. Other reasons were it was dirt cheap, meant we could use our road cars, which brings the cost down even further , there was no need to join clubs or have a lot(any ) expensive paperwork, etc etc.


There's the fun of proving stuff for yourself; we were repeatedly told that a burnout was pointless on road tyres(barely legal 205/60 13s run at about half the normal pressure) at out our power level, but although it wasn't worth much time it was really good for consistency. Getting a shitty looking, stock 2.0l Capri to spin both back wheels is good for psyching out the bloke in the other lane


This was back in the early nineties, when a busy RWYB cost £20 and you could expect well over a dozen runs in a day. Twenty wasn't unusual. The last one I went to, 4 runs was considered good

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Pointless? Yes. But most pointless things tend to be fun. Which is why we do it. Drag racing is also quite technical with a seemingly endless amount of ways to improve times. I've yet to take 10 or 15 PSI from the rear tyres as has been suggested for better traction.

Both of those are high up the list as why we spent a lot of time doing it. Other reasons were it was dirt cheap, meant we could use our road cars, which brings the cost down even further , there was no need to join clubs or have a lot(any ) expensive paperwork, etc etc.


There's the fun of proving stuff for yourself; we were repeatedly told that a burnout was pointless on road tyres(barely legal 205/60 13s run at about half the normal pressure) at out our power level, but although it wasn't worth much time it was really good for consistency. Getting a shitty looking, stock 2.0l Capri to spin both back wheels is good for psyching out the bloke in the other lane


This was back in the early nineties, when a busy RWYB cost £20 and you could expect well over a dozen runs in a day. Twenty wasn't unusual. The last one I went to, 4 runs was considered good ???

Yes. The endless waiting in a queue is frustrating and getting worse. Last Time we went I managed just one run in almost 8 hours. Frustrating.

These days I tend to use a 'private road' and a Racelogic datalogger.