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[Shackeng]

Away from home and TD failed to start. Not battery, ignition lights all on, but when key turned to start position nothing happens, no click, lights do not dim. Suspect solenoid failure unless someone has a better suggestion. 

[robson]

I am not sure where the solenoid is but you could jump over this to see if it will then start

[Shackeng]

Not with you R.   

[The Red Baron]

I think as in battery volts direct to the starter.
Edit. You got a hammer Chris.give the solenoid a good tap or two and try the key again....

[Shackeng]

I think as in battery volts direct to the starter.
Edit. You got a hammer Chris.give the solenoid a good tap or two and try the key again....

.                       
Tried that first off Jon, well I hit with a sand iron!
Too inaccessible to get to jump leads on to the starter.
Still waiting for the breakdown truck after 2 hours. 
 

[The Red Baron]

Bugger. Sorry your stuck.
All fuses ok?. Loose connection maybe.

[Shackeng]

I've checked the connections but not whether power is getting there. I need to get it in the garage where I have tools.  I can't see any relevant fuses listed.

[TD]

Are you still stuck Chris?

If so and not a million miles away from home, could pop over and give you a lift home 

[Shackeng]

Are you still stuck Chris?

If so and not a million miles away from home, could pop over and give you a lift home 

Cheers mate, many thanks for the offer. Am now back home. Breakdown guy arrived and did as suggested above, getting power straight to the 'trigger wire' as he called it, started straight away (2.45 hrs after calling them!) and drove home into the garage. Tried the starter, worked perfectly, so am suspecting a dodgy solenoid as opposed to a broken connection. So, do I temporarily jury rig a wire to the trigger wire in case of further problems, and hope for the best, or fit a new solenoid? Hmmm, new solenoid ASAP I think.
Thanks for all the helpful suggestions and offers of help, as I have come to exppect on OOF.

PS. It makes me think that a useful item to carry, in any car, would be a suitable piece of cable with a crocodile clip on one end and a metal probe on the other, for this sort of problem.

[STEMO]

Are you still stuck Chris?

If so and not a million miles away from home, could pop over and give you a lift home 

Cheers mate, many thanks for the offer. Am now back home. Breakdown guy arrived and did as suggested above, getting power straight to the 'trigger wire' as he called it, started straight away (2.45 hrs after calling them!) and drove home into the garage. Tried the starter, worked perfectly, so am suspecting a dodgy solenoid as opposed to a broken connection. So, do I temporarily jury rig a wire to the trigger wire in case of further problems, and hope for the best, or fit a new solenoid? Hmmm, new solenoid ASAP I think.
Thanks for all the helpful suggestions and offers of help, as I have come to exppect on OOF.

PS. It makes me think that a useful item to carry, in any car, would be a suitable piece of cable with a crocodile clip on one end and a metal probe on the other, for this sort of problem.

Nah.....only if you own an omega, Chris.
So..that's cable with croc clip and probe, crank sensor, hbv. Anything I've missed? 

[Entwood]

I think as in battery volts direct to the starter.
Edit. You got a hammer Chris.give the solenoid a good tap or two and try the key again....

.                       
Tried that first off Jon, well I hit with a sand iron!
Too inaccessible to get to jump leads on to the starter.
Still waiting for the breakdown truck after 2 hours. 
 

There's your problem .. poor choice of club, should have been a wedge... 

Glad to hear you are now back home, if I can be of any help just yell.

Nige

[Nick W]

Cheers mate, many thanks for the offer. Am now back home. Breakdown guy arrived and did as suggested above, getting power straight to the 'trigger wire' as he called it, started straight away (2.45 hrs after calling them!) and drove home into the garage. Tried the starter, worked perfectly, so am suspecting a dodgy solenoid as opposed to a broken connection. So, do I temporarily jury rig a wire to the trigger wire in case of further problems, and hope for the best, or fit a new solenoid? Hmmm, new solenoid ASAP I think.
Thanks for all the helpful suggestions and offers of help, as I have come to expect on OOF.

So bypassing the car's wiring to the solenoid means the car starts. Surely you should be investigating the WIRING, rather than condemning the solenoid? Hell, if you want to indulge in swapnosis rather than diagnosis, replacing the ignition switch would be a much better bet.

[Shackeng]

Cheers mate, many thanks for the offer. Am now back home. Breakdown guy arrived and did as suggested above, getting power straight to the 'trigger wire' as he called it, started straight away (2.45 hrs after calling them!) and drove home into the garage. Tried the starter, worked perfectly, so am suspecting a dodgy solenoid as opposed to a broken connection. So, do I temporarily jury rig a wire to the trigger wire in case of further problems, and hope for the best, or fit a new solenoid? Hmmm, new solenoid ASAP I think.
Thanks for all the helpful suggestions and offers of help, as I have come to expect on OOF.

So bypassing the car's wiring to the solenoid means the car starts. Surely you should be investigating the WIRING, rather than condemning the solenoid? Hell, if you want to indulge in swapnosis rather than diagnosis, replacing the ignition switch would be a much better bet.

Which I certainly shall be, however, from similar experiences in the past, admittedly on much earlier cars, I think it suggests a sticky solenoid, rather than a poorly connected wire. However, many thanks for your helpful comment.

[omegod]

Whoa there, I had exactly the same on a calibra and it was the ignition switch, all the dash lights then bugger all when giving the key the last turn, worth looking at for a £10 part. I went straight for wiring but missed the easiest bit   

[Shackeng]

Whoa there, I had exactly the same on a calibra and it was the ignition switch, all the dash lights then bugger all when giving the key the last turn, worth looking at for a £10 part. I went straight for wiring but missed the easiest bit   

Cheers OG, I'll also keep that in mind, as I had the switch out a couple of years ago to replace the tumblers.

[Shackeng]

The problem now is, that as the fault is intermittent, and absent a positive result from testing wiring, connections and power supply, it becomes a case of empirical testing by changing the most likely (e.g. easiest  ) part in turn, and wait for the fault to recur.

[Andy B]

....
Which I certainly shall be, however, from similar experiences in the past, admittedly on much earlier cars, I think it suggests a sticky solenoid, rather than a poorly connected wire. However, many thanks for your helpful comment.

But as Nick says, your existing solenoid worked when you bypassed the wiring loom. Your solenoid is OK, you've an iffy connection or wiring some where up to the solenoid.

Senators were the same, by the time the wiring had aged, plus the increased resistance of alarm relays etc made them such that they were reluctant to start off the key, but always spun over immediately if you powered the solenoid directly ..... ensuring of course they were in neutral/park when you did so! 

[robson]

 To get it started did you bypass the solenoid ie feed straight to the starter or jump across the solenoid contacts. If the latter then surely the ignition switch is ok

[Shackeng]

Good question, I couldn't see what he was doing, but he said he put a live supply to the 'trigger' connection, which I took to mean the supply to the solenoid. On the report he has written "...power up starter solenoid, engine starts, suspect solenoid." Although I would have thought that means that the solenoid is OK. However please correct me if I'm wrong, as I am not fully informed as to the wiring to these, fairly inaccessible and difficult to see as it is. Now I have it in the garage, I can do some trouble-shooting, if SWMBO lets me off writing Xmas cards!

[Shackeng]

....
Which I certainly shall be, however, from similar experiences in the past, admittedly on much earlier cars, I think it suggests a sticky solenoid, rather than a poorly connected wire. However, many thanks for your helpful comment.

But as Nick says, your existing solenoid worked when you bypassed the wiring loom. Your solenoid is OK, you've an iffy connection or wiring some where up to the solenoid.

Senators were the same, by the time the wiring had aged, plus the increased resistance of alarm relays etc made them such that they were reluctant to start off the key, but always spun over immediately if you powered the solenoid directly ..... ensuring of course they were in neutral/park when you did so! 

Interesting, and was there no dimming of lights when trying to start? and what was the fix?

[Shackeng]

Is this the switch that I need to replace if it is the guilty party as suggested by Nick and Omegod? At least it is a reasonably cheap fix if so.

[Andy B]

...
Interesting, and was there no dimming of lights when trying to start? and what was the fix?

It was a long time since I had my Senator, but remember that there were a few fixes on the ABS site. I just by-passed the start inhibit as a 'temporary' fix 

[Shackeng]

Is this the switch that I need to replace if it is the guilty party as suggested by Nick and Omegod? At least it is a reasonably cheap fix if so.

Can any electrickery experts confirm this please?

[Nick W]

Whoa there, I had exactly the same on a calibra and it was the ignition switch, all the dash lights then bugger all when giving the key the last turn, worth looking at for a £10 part. I went straight for wiring but missed the easiest bit   

Cheers OG, I'll also keep that in mind, as I had the switch out a couple of years ago to replace the tumblers.

You changed the tumblers in the lock barrel/cylinder. The switch is the round, black plastic bit that the lock turns. They're both common failures on Vauxhalls of this age, but the switch is at least easy to diagnose accurately and cheap to buy.

[Shackeng]

Whoa there, I had exactly the same on a calibra and it was the ignition switch, all the dash lights then bugger all when giving the key the last turn, worth looking at for a £10 part. I went straight for wiring but missed the easiest bit   

Cheers OG, I'll also keep that in mind, as I had the switch out a couple of years ago to replace the tumblers.

You changed the tumblers in the lock barrel/cylinder. The switch is the round, black plastic bit that the lock turns. They're both common failures on Vauxhalls of this age, but the switch is at least easy to diagnose accurately and cheap to buy.

Thanks Nick, is the switch accessible without removing the barrel? I assume this is the one I need: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/OPEL-VAUXHALL-OMEGA-B-TIGRA-VECTRA-IGNITION-BARREL-STARTER-SWITCH-PLUG-INPUT-NEW-/231551717977?fits=Car+Make%3AVauxhall%7CModel%3AOmega&hash=item35e98ed259:g:iKsAAOSwrklVRzhj#vi-ilComp

Amazingly, stealers have then in stock at £42 +Vat., but is it an item that should be GM???

[Nick W]

You changed the tumblers in the lock barrel/cylinder. The switch is the round, black plastic bit that the lock turns. They're both common failures on Vauxhalls of this age, but the switch is at least easy to diagnose accurately and cheap to buy.

Thanks Nick, is the switch accessible without removing the barrel? I assume this is the one I need: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/OPEL-VAUXHALL-OMEGA-B-TIGRA-VECTRA-IGNITION-BARREL-STARTER-SWITCH-PLUG-INPUT-NEW-/231551717977?fits=Car+Make%3AVauxhall%7CModel%3AOmega&hash=item35e98ed259:g:iKsAAOSwrklVRzhj#vi-ilComp

Yes, that looks like it. I fitted one on a Corsa years ago, but although it wasn't complicated I can't remember how I did it.


Seriously though, you need to start checking with a multi-meter before you buy anything.
 
Begin with the starter motor; use a power probe(or an improvised tool/wire) on the switching stud of the solenoid to eliminate that.


While you're there, check that the wire to the stud energises when the key is turned.


If it doesn't, check the switch is working.


If the switch IS working, you have a wiring fault.


Then you can fix the problem, rather than just guessing.

[Bigron]

Ask a woman to help - they are good at finding faults!   

Ron.

[Shackeng]

You changed the tumblers in the lock barrel/cylinder. The switch is the round, black plastic bit that the lock turns. They're both common failures on Vauxhalls of this age, but the switch is at least easy to diagnose accurately and cheap to buy.

Thanks Nick, is the switch accessible without removing the barrel? I assume this is the one I need: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/OPEL-VAUXHALL-OMEGA-B-TIGRA-VECTRA-IGNITION-BARREL-STARTER-SWITCH-PLUG-INPUT-NEW-/231551717977?fits=Car+Make%3AVauxhall%7CModel%3AOmega&hash=item35e98ed259:g:iKsAAOSwrklVRzhj#vi-ilComp

Yes, that looks like it. I fitted one on a Corsa years ago, but although it wasn't complicated I can't remember how I did it.


Seriously though, you need to start checking with a multi-meter before you buy anything.
 
Begin with the starter motor; use a power probe(or an improvised tool/wire) on the switching stud of the solenoid to eliminate that.


While you're there, check that the wire to the stud energises when the key is turned.


If it doesn't, check the switch is working.


If the switch IS working, you have a wiring fault.


Then you can fix the problem, rather than just guessing.

Thanks Nick, very concise. I will let you know how it goes. Unfortunately I was unable to escape Xmas card duties this afternoon, and its golf tomorrow, so hopefully I will get started at the weekend.

[Shackeng]

You changed the tumblers in the lock barrel/cylinder. The switch is the round, black plastic bit that the lock turns. They're both common failures on Vauxhalls of this age, but the switch is at least easy to diagnose accurately and cheap to buy.

Thanks Nick, is the switch accessible without removing the barrel? I assume this is the one I need: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/OPEL-VAUXHALL-OMEGA-B-TIGRA-VECTRA-IGNITION-BARREL-STARTER-SWITCH-PLUG-INPUT-NEW-/231551717977?fits=Car+Make%3AVauxhall%7CModel%3AOmega&hash=item35e98ed259:g:iKsAAOSwrklVRzhj#vi-ilComp

Yes, that looks like it. I fitted one on a Corsa years ago, but although it wasn't complicated I can't remember how I did it.


Seriously though, you need to start checking with a multi-meter before you buy anything.
 
Begin with the starter motor; use a power probe(or an improvised tool/wire) on the switching stud of the solenoid to eliminate that.
This works OK, as it started when power applied.
 
While you're there, check that the wire to the stud energises when the key is turned.


If it doesn't, check the switch is working.


If the switch IS working, you have a wiring fault.


Then you can fix the problem, rather than just guessing.

The problem now is that, as it starts OK, and is therefore an intermittent fault, I have to change things in turn to eliminate them, either that or wait until it fails completely, which I prefer not to do.

[Shackeng]

Ask a woman to help - they are good at finding faults!   

Ron.

Ain't that the truth.

[Shackeng]

Still starting OK today, however I daren't go out in it and am using the 3.2. As it seems that the switch is a possible culprit from Nick's comments, I will start by changing that, and hope the fault does not re-appear.

[neil74]

I've had a few occasions when mine like yours wont turn over at all. and it seems to be the transmission selector switch on my one because when you jiggle it a bit the car starts up fine. just remembered yours is a manual  .

[Shackeng]

I've had a few occasions when mine like yours wont turn over at all. and it seems to be the transmission selector switch on my one because when you jiggle it a bit the car starts up fine. just remembered yours is a manual .

Nope, Auto.