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[Webby the Bear]

Sorry Webby .. I MUST make a strong disagreement with a small, but highly important part of your post .. I'm not going to quote the whole post for one little bit .. but you say, under balancing ...

heres the balancing machine, really easy to use. tyre on, run it, it tells you what weight ands where to add. bash on the right weight. done

Absolutely and 100% WRONG !!!! - and the cause of many an argument between me and poor tyre fitters .. and I've won every argument

On every tyre there are little coloured dots, these represent the "light" point (yellow) and the "high" point (red). The yellow dot should be positioned by the valve (the weight of the valve compensates for the light point of the tyre). IF the wheel is marked with a "low point" (expensive wheels only) the red dot should be aligned with this.

Doing it any other way just ensures that massive amounts of un-needed weights are added to a wheel, giving further harmonic loads to an already stressed item. It also increases the risk of a weight coming off.

I could also add information about tyre "run out", colour bands and the importance of the right tyre being in the right place on the car ...

If you wish to read up on this ....

http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=165

post #12 and post #1 are probably the most useful

HTH

no worries mate... as long as you don't dare disagree with my silicone paste point!!!  only kiddling.

i'll be honest we only had a 10 minute demo this morning. then a couple of goes ourselves. the teacher never mentioned the dots so I didn't know 

ill read the WIM thread and ask the teacxher about it too 

[Webby the Bear]

BTW...

I thought the Schrader valve remover tool was quite cool and would be handy. anyone know how to make a home made one? I heard someone mention using brass brake line. is this right? would be awesome to add to my drill gauge tool 

[Webby the Bear]

found it 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LArLXARyhAI

[Andy B]

....

On every tyre there are little coloured dots, these represent the "light" point (yellow) and the "high" point (red). The yellow dot should be positioned by the valve (the weight of the valve compensates for the light point of the tyre). IF the wheel is marked with a "low point" (expensive wheels only) the red dot should be aligned with this.

Doing it any other way just ensures that massive amounts of un-needed weights are added to a wheel, giving further harmonic loads to an already stressed item. It also increases the risk of a weight coming off. ....

But .......  when Merc fitted my tyres on the back of my car, I had the yellow dot alongside the valve on one of the tyres and I had 105 g of balance weights fitted. I took it back & got them to do it again because I wasn't happy with the amount they'd used (it felt balanced though) He returned after having put 30g on it this time to balance it ..... my yellow dot now no longer coincides with the valve 

[Marks DTM Calib]

A big issue with tyres and balancing is that there is a working assumption that the rim is balanced before the tyre is fitted.....and there very often not!

[Webby the Bear]

Should the rim be balanced with tyre off then? 

[Marks DTM Calib]

Should the rim be balanced with tyre off then? 

Its a working assumption that it is, I guess you could balance them without the tyre first (would be an interesting trial for you) and then remove metal or add heavy metal where required.

[Marks DTM Calib]

Ah yes, I forgot to mention a word of caution regarding runout.....beware as without the wheel fitted the disc is not properly clamped so the readings are pretty floored!

[CaptainZok]

BTW...

I thought the Schrader valve remover tool was quite cool and would be handy. anyone know how to make a home made one? I heard someone mention using brass brake line. is this right? would be awesome to add to my drill gauge tool 

Get one bought. I'm sure the slapon man will sell you one, won't be less than a tenner.

[Webby the Bear]

BTW...

I thought the Schrader valve remover tool was quite cool and would be handy. anyone know how to make a home made one? I heard someone mention using brass brake line. is this right? would be awesome to add to my drill gauge tool 

Get one bought. I'm sure the slapon man will sell you one, won't be less than a tenner.

  Nar, fak that. they taught me these fabrication skills. my aim is to now make all my tools 

[Webby the Bear]

Should the rim be balanced with tyre off then? 

Its a working assumption that it is, I guess you could balance them without the tyre first (would be an interesting trial for you) and then remove metal or add heavy metal where required.

ill give it a go, and compare to doing it with it on 

[Webby the Bear]

Ah yes, I forgot to mention a word of caution regarding runout.....beware as without the wheel fitted the disc is not properly clamped so the readings are pretty floored!

yep no worries mate. they said if the disc screws aren't there, pop two lug nuts in to secure it 

[Webby the Bear]

right, just to add... we had theory today. I didn't need to mention the coloured dot as he brought it up when we discussed balancing. the premise is....

if the tyre has a dot, mount the dot next to the shrader valve. then balance. 

[Marks DTM Calib]

Ah yes, I forgot to mention a word of caution regarding runout.....beware as without the wheel fitted the disc is not properly clamped so the readings are pretty floored!

yep no worries mate. they said if the disc screws aren't there, pop two lug nuts in to secure it 

Beware of that to as for instance, the favoured bolt would be a wheel bolt and they can foul on the inenr parts of the hub. Nuts should be ok.

[Webby the Bear]

Ah yes, I forgot to mention a word of caution regarding runout.....beware as without the wheel fitted the disc is not properly clamped so the readings are pretty floored!

yep no worries mate. they said if the disc screws aren't there, pop two lug nuts in to secure it 

Beware of that to as for instance, the favoured bolt would be a wheel bolt and they can foul on the inenr parts of the hub. Nuts should be ok.

I will keep a note of that mate thanks 

on the run out I did was on a pug 206. the maximum run out spec is 0.05. this one had 0.20  would this (what to me is a small amount) really show itself during braking in the form of steering wheel vibration?